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Difficult to hang out with friend.
billwill
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I know this girl who is awesome. She's really smart and funny, and she is also seriously one of the nicest and most honest people I've ever met.
The thing is, making plans with her is always very difficult, because a) She never answers (or has) her phone so I have to do it online and b) She just is very wishy-washy with her responses ("Does Tuesday work?" "Oh, I don't know, I might have family in...").
The obvious conclusion is that she doesn't want to be friends, right? That's what I figured. Turns out, after seeing and befriending her friends, she is exactly the same way with them. Even her best friend has to call multiple times and be very aggressive in the making of plans.
I felt awkward about pushing too hard early on in the friendship. I mean, if someone wants to hang out with me, I figure they'll expend at least SOME effort to do so. And we really do have a lot of fun. When we do manage to hang out, she's laughing non-stop and usually we'll go for hours and hours at a time. Anyway, I mentioned that I was uncomfortable with this early on in our friendship and she kept on telling me it's just the way she is.
I really am not sure what I'm asking for advice with, really. It can be extremely frustrating to make plans, but I have so much fun hanging out with her and I don't want to lose the friendship.
Is this a common thing? Are some people just entirely apathetic like that? It's just weird because I'd expect someone's apathy to extend into our hanging out time, but not with her. She's exceedingly happy and talkative when we are together. There's just that damn voice in my head that is always there telling me, "You're forcing friendship, man."
I guess the answer is I just need to accept it as a part of being her friend. I just need other people to tell me that/let me know if it's common.
The thing is, making plans with her is always very difficult, because a) She never answers (or has) her phone so I have to do it online and b) She just is very wishy-washy with her responses ("Does Tuesday work?" "Oh, I don't know, I might have family in...").
The obvious conclusion is that she doesn't want to be friends, right? That's what I figured. Turns out, after seeing and befriending her friends, she is exactly the same way with them. Even her best friend has to call multiple times and be very aggressive in the making of plans.
I felt awkward about pushing too hard early on in the friendship. I mean, if someone wants to hang out with me, I figure they'll expend at least SOME effort to do so. And we really do have a lot of fun. When we do manage to hang out, she's laughing non-stop and usually we'll go for hours and hours at a time. Anyway, I mentioned that I was uncomfortable with this early on in our friendship and she kept on telling me it's just the way she is.
I really am not sure what I'm asking for advice with, really. It can be extremely frustrating to make plans, but I have so much fun hanging out with her and I don't want to lose the friendship.
Is this a common thing? Are some people just entirely apathetic like that? It's just weird because I'd expect someone's apathy to extend into our hanging out time, but not with her. She's exceedingly happy and talkative when we are together. There's just that damn voice in my head that is always there telling me, "You're forcing friendship, man."
I guess the answer is I just need to accept it as a part of being her friend. I just need other people to tell me that/let me know if it's common.
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billwill on
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I'm always skirting a fine line, never knowing if she just doesn't want to see me, or if she's just really busy and disorganized.
Just realize that and accept it. Personally it's not something I would put up with - but to each their own.
It's just the way she is and I've learned to deal with it because she is awesome. That doesn't mean it doesn't drive me nuts at times though!
She's aware of the "flaw" and has chosen to consider it a "feature" instead. Your options are get over it or move on.
Mostly, my reasoning (and no it's not necessarily logical), but I like to be alone. Also, I don't handle social situations well. I mean, i'm fine when i'm in them, but getting >to< the situation is always more of a struggle for me than the actual situation. It's a small level of social anxiety and sometimes it just takes getting past. People will want to schedule lunches or time to hang out, and I always want to go, but I almost always back out and it usually takes almost physical effort and constant self berating to convince myself to go.
I always have fun when I do, but it takes time.
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Well you already got the answer here, so I guess I'll just tell you that you're correct and observe that as a general principle, dealing with people as they actually are rather than as you wish they were is an infinitely less stressful and disappointing way to live than the reverse.
I have a buddy like this, he is extremely hard to get to go anywhere, he will usually seem excited about something and then back out. I don't hold it against him because I've learned that's just how he is. I hardly ever even see him, but I was best man at his wedding a few months ago. Basically whenever we do something as a group, I give him a call and let him know, but I never expect him to show.
I, however, have always had "girls" i was "friends" with act like this. And it bothered me more, because I wanted more then just friendship. So, if that is the case, I would suggest moving on pronto. If, however, you are just looking for friendship and nothing more, then just don't worry about it much. it doesn't take much to throw an invite her way or what not, but I wouldn't focus on making your relationship with her a priority, its probably not worth it. If you focus too much on this person you will get upset because you will feel you are giving way more then you are receiving.
I would say this is the best advice:
Invite her out and then go do whatever you want. Don't construct your social circles where flaky people are the anchor. I've done it, and it doesn't work because then you feel like your plans hinge on whether or not they make good on what they've said (about meeting you or whatever).
Unfortunately, you need to treat people like that as people you appreciate if they show up but not take offense to if they don't. Honestly? I think most people who act that way probably want to be treated that way. Maybe they don't want to feel obligated to be here or there. I'm not saying it's wrong to want to make plans with these people - I'm just saying that some people are like that and see invitations as obligations so they kind of distance themselves to some degree.
This is pretty much all you can do, don't ever expect this girl to be a really close friend though, doesn't sound like she has it in her.
I had a friend that planned a happy hour one afternoon over facebook, then didn't show up (like 2 hours later!). some people are just flakes.
haha jesus.
If they're wishy-washy, then I assume they're busy. Like, if they say "oh maybe a family thing is happening" I say "OK, well have fun with that, I'll catch you later." And plan something else with someone who commits. If it consistently happens and it feels like I'm the only person who reaches out, I eventually stop reaching out. I essentially view it as offensive that they value my friendship so minimally that they wouldn't call me back or propose their own get-together at some future point after pushing me off for months.
Most of my friends who fall on the flaky end of the spectrum do end up contacting me at some point, because they do eventually realize that I've stopped calling/emailing and they haven't seen me in a long time. I have a couple friends that I don't see anymore because they apparently have more interesting things to do in their lives.
Granted, on the scheme of offendedness, this ranks down with "someone throwing a cigarette butt out of their moving car" and not "stole my cat after insulting my family" because if I never see someone, I don't really consider them much of a close friend. We'll just remain facebook friends, and leave it at that.
Uh. I'm not trying to cover anything up for anyone. I've been flaked out on and it's goddamned annoying. But it's a different kind of goddamned annoying than what people usually classify as lying. It may technically be lying. It could also just be total irresponsibility, or lack of care, which are not necessarily lies. Either way, we've created a word to describe this kind of behavior. That word is "flaky" and it's not at all meant to cover up or defend against the nature of such a set of behavior in any way. It's just a descriptive word.
edit: But I do agree with you that someone who habitually or routinely flakes out to that degree is probably someone you should reconsider socializing with. I wouldn't cut someone off for a single flake - maybe something happened out of their control - but two or three times? Ciao!
What's that saying "if it doesn't apply to you then it wasn't directed at you." I wasn't saying everyone who uses words like flaky are trying to downplay the severeity of it, just that it was common, which it is. And I agree, if its something that happens occasionally then its no big deal. But frequently doing this shows a high level of immaturity and deep disrespect toward friends.
Some people are just homebodies though. I know I don't always want to hang out with people and it's not because I don't like them; I just want to stay home that day. As long as it's not getting as bad as the friend in my example I wouldn't worry too much.
And I'd also like to highlight that, yeah, this might seem weird. You might be saying to yourself "Hey! We're friends! Why is she feeling anxious!?"
And I'll just point out that anxiety isn't exactly the most logical feeling in the book of feelings. But I have known people like this so...
With all my friends, even the absolute best of them --people I've known since the first grade. In fact, I'm even like this with my family, and my family gets along splendidly.
If someone calls, my general tendency is to see who it is, then just mute it and text them back later when I'm done doing whatever it is I'm doing (or maybe just on some other day.) If someone texts and it'd require a long reply, I'll usually put that off, too. If my doorbell rings and I wasn't expecting anyone to come over, I may very well just ignore the door altogether (or see who it is as they walk away.)
While I have a great time hanging out with friends and you'd describe me as extroverted and outgoing while I'm with them if you saw me, I'm actually a very introverted and introspective person --I have a lot of fun when I'm out doing whatever, but it's still a stressful thing, and there's no way I could do it every day of the week or even several times a week without feeling burnt out.
I don't like making plans to do things on specific days because, in general, I just enjoy having my time open. Having specific plans for specific days makes me feel kind of anxious and restrained beforehand, even if I have a lot of fun when those plans come to fruition.
On top of this, I don't call people. Me calling people usually indicates some form of emergency or big news.
Now, I wouldn't be one to call these aspects of my personality 'features' as Tox put it, but they are the way I am, and after decades of being that way, it's unlikely I'm going to change. Some people are okay with this and find the tradeoff of me being an annoying bastard in myriad ways to be acceptable, and we're still good friends. Some people aren't okay with this and eventually they stop calling enough for me to do things with them, and that's the end of that.
Not sure this'll help, as she could be the way she is for entirely different reasons than why I'm the way I am, but what works best with me is:
-call and ask out of nowhere if I want to 'hang out' for a bit at the place that I already am. Spontaneous hanging out with minimal invested effort isn't a stressful thing at all to me. This might not work out so well if she doesn't, say, have a house or apartment or whatever that's good for hanging out in.
-arrange a day per week to do stuff as a friends-group. This won't really work unless you and she are best friends already, but this is kind of what my friends cornered me into doing. This might seem really childish unless a) you are a child or b) you've reached that age when you realize that career + spouse + all the crap that goes along with it eats up so damned much of your free time that you should be happy if you can manage to have a free day or evening's worth of time with someone (or someones) who can also manage a free day or evening's worth of time.
In short, some people are introverted and it's annoying, because they're still fun people but they just don't put the same effort into sending out social signals that you do. I'd agree it's a personality flaw, at least for social interactions. But you really just have to decide if the extra effort on your part is worth what you get out of the friendship.
I'm lucky to have friends who feel that it is. They still get pissed off at me, though, and bitch about it regularly
PS: I really don't know if it's common or not, though. Common enough that such people exist, at least.
And when both parties are saying "deal with it," the end result is that they aren't in each other's lives, no matter who is making the push.
I should clarify a few things: She's not flaky at all. I mean, once plans are set, she never backs out. It's just getting those damn things set.
Can you elaborate on how social anxiety might cause this?
Also, as for the phone thing, I know she doesn't intentionally not answer the phone or whatever. If she hears it ring, she'll pick it up. It's just that she doesn't care enough to have it with her or put it on something other than silent.
I'll try to accept it but it's just really difficult. I can't help but feel offended. For example, I was trying to make plans a few days ago to hang out either today or tomorrow. She told me she might be busy one of these days, and said she'll get back to me. I didn't respond, mainly because I knew it would be an exercise in frustration, and just an hour ago I get a message from her saying she didn't know if we were going to meet or not today but she can't because her best friend is over. And I know it's just because that friend was more forceful than me in setting the plans.
I need to just dial back the friendship I guess, at least on my end. I'm used to hanging out with friends at least once a week, but clearly it's not going to be this way with her. I just can't help but feel insulted when she doesn't put any effort in and I should stop giving myself opportunities to feel that way.
Yeah, this is totally your issue, not hers at all. I have plenty of friends I don't see once a week.
Your friend sounds exactly like me. I keep my phone on silent at all times, am pretty hard to pin down for an actual rendezvous unless I myself schedule it, and independent to a fault. Some people are just like that and there's no reason to be "insulted" by it at all. We just do things on our time, not others.
The easiest thing to do is just to dial back on your efforts to the point where it doesn't bother you.
My guess is that you have a thing for this girl, so you're taking it especially hard, as it feels more like rejection. My suggestion if this is the case is to find someone that wants to spend time with you on a schedule more in keeping with your preferences.
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