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Video Game Industry Thread: December's done, time for the next one

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Posts

  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    ME 3 Q+A wrote:
    4) Will ME3 be available on Steam?
    During initial release Mass Effect 3 will be available on Origin and a number of other 3rd party digital retailers, but not on Steam at this time. Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service which limit how developers interact with customers to deliver patches and other downloadable content. We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible experience no matter where they purchase or play their game, and are happy to partner with any download service that does not restrict our ability to connect directly with our consumers.


    8-> Oh EA, for so long I've been let down by all the publishers on Steam who take and take and take but were never brave enough to directly connect with me. Why have I never been directly connected with? Is there something wrong with me? Now we can finally hook up.

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  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    Hedgethorn wrote:
    Nintendo has posted the top 10 bestselling Wii, DS, and 3DS games for 2011.

    Wii Top 10 for 2011 (NPD)
    (1) Just Dance 3
    (2) Just Dance 2
    (3) Zumba Fitness
    (4) Michael Jackson The Experience
    (5) Mario Kart Wii
    (6) New Super Mario Bros. Wii
    (7) The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
    (8) Donkey Kong Country Returns
    (9) Skylanders Spyro's Adventure
    (10) LEGO Star Wars III: The Saga Continues to Build

    For a couple of points of reference, Just Dance 3 has supposedly sold over 3 million copies; Skyward Sword is somewhere over 1.2 million (possibly quite a bit more).

    3DS Top 10 for 2011 (NPD)
    (1) Super Mario 3D Land
    (2) Mario Kart 7
    (3) The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D
    (4) SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV 3D EDITION
    (5) Star Fox 64 3D
    (6) Pokémon Rumble Blast
    (7) LEGO Star Wars III: The Clone Wars
    (8) Pilotwings Resort
    (9) Asphalt 3D
    (10) nintendogs + cats: Golden Retriever & New Friends

    DS Top 10 for 2011 (NPD)
    (1) Pokémon White Version
    (2) Pokémon Black Version
    (3) New Super Mario Bros.
    (4) Mario Kart DS
    (5) Plants vs Zombies
    (6) Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Mini-land Mayhem!
    (7) LEGO Star Wars III: The Battle For Bricks Just Got Bigger!
    (8) Cars 2: The Video Game
    (9) Super Mario 64 DS
    (10) LEGO Battles: Ninjago

    Wii 1&2 (Just Dance) I can understand. 3&4 (Zumba/Michael Jackson) frighten me. Just wow. I had no idea they were that popular.

    DS 5 (PvZ), did that get a cart release or is that DSi download only? If it's a download only game that's pretty amazing!

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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Did no one notice DS 9? Super Mario 64 DS? Holy crap.

  • skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    ArcSyn wrote:
    DS 5 (PvZ), did that get a cart release or is that DSi download only? If it's a download only game that's pretty amazing!

    http://www.amazon.com/Plants-Vs-Zombies-Nintendo-DS/dp/B00407F2BQ/ref=sr_1_1_title_0?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1326515745&sr=1-1

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  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    skeldare wrote:
    ArcSyn wrote:
    DS 5 (PvZ), did that get a cart release or is that DSi download only? If it's a download only game that's pretty amazing!

    http://www.amazon.com/Plants-Vs-Zombies-Nintendo-DS/dp/B00407F2BQ/ref=sr_1_1_title_0?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1326515745&sr=1-1

    Ok, nevermind. Thought it seemed to good. But on my mobile so didn't look it up.
    Opty wrote:
    Did no one notice DS 9? Super Mario 64 DS? Holy crap.

    Wow! I skipped right over it.

    ArcSyn on
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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    haha i remember playing that game when the DS was released

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    shryke wrote:
    So from the sounds of it, the journey in TOR seems pretty dang spiffy.

    Thing is, the journey isn't what keeps the subs going. The journey will sell the game and maybe a one month subscription. It's what happens after that, when people reach the end. They better have that all planned out, or people are going to be dropping in droves.

    You're right, though I think it helps that the game is very alt-friendly and there's more of an incentive to play through with multiple characters.

    I'm not at the endgame yet but the general feeling I'm getting from people is that it's not great. That's not really a huge deal to me cause I find the whole "endgame" concept lame and plan on spending most of my time on a new character after hitting 50, but it's a big deal to a lot of MMO players and like you said, what keeps the money coming in.

    It's a big deal in that it's literally one of the main, if not the main, thing that makes it an MMO.

    Otherwise it's just a standard Bioware RPG. Ok, one with co-op.

    I dunno, I don't think "endgame" as it exists in MMOs is really something that needs to be the way it is. I mean, constantly grinding the same quests and dungeons every day for small gear upgrades so you can do the harder versions of the same things every day for small gear upgrades until a few months later when a couple new things are released to play through, doesn't feel like something that needs to be an essential part of a MMO to me. It's certainly not "what makes it a MMO", the fact that they are big online multiplayer worlds is what makes them MMOs. That "with co-op" thing that you're brushing off is more or less what makes it a MMO. The things you do at endgame are the same things you do with other players throughout the normal game, the only difference is that it's required.

    I'm not sure what else a MMO designer could do to move away from it, but I don't think it would be wrong to try to do so. I'd say encouraging alts as much as possible is a good start, which is something TOR does fairly well.

    That being said, TOR IS trying to do a traditional endgame thing, so it's fair to critique how well they do it, and it seems like it's mediocre.

    Endgame is what makes an an MMO because the biggest thing that makes an MMO and MMO is persistence. Your character and the world persist. Essentially forever.

    The most important characteristic of an MMO is that it does not end.

    Leveling ends eventually and you arrive at endgame. And at that point, you still have to be able to do something with your character. That's why endgame is what matters. Otherwise it's just a standard co-op RPG. It doesn't need to be the same thing to do that all other games have used so far, but something needs to be there.

    shryke on
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    I'd say the most important characteristic of an MMO is what those three letters stand for.

    And I disagree that without the endgame an MMO is just a standard RPG with co-op. You till have the world, people running around in that world, and all the social aspects that go with that. Again, the things you actually DO in endgame is the same stuff you can do during the rest of the game.

    I mean, I'm pretty sure I've read several times that the vast majority of people who play WoW don't raid. There's tons of people that don't get wrapped up in endgame stuff. For a lot of people, the leveling IS the game. And the social world they do that leveling in is what makes it an MMO.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I'd say the most important characteristic of an MMO is what those three letters stand for.

    And I disagree that without the endgame an MMO is just a standard RPG with co-op. You till have the world, people running around in that world, and all the social aspects that go with that. Again, the things you actually DO in endgame is the same stuff you can do durng the rest of the game.

    That being said "endgame" is what pushes most people to keep playing, so yes it's important to MMOs and to TOR.

    It isn't though. You can't level at endgame anymore. Not the same way anyway, since content is finite.

    And no, the three words in MMO are not all that define the genre. If you hit max level and the game said "Ok, all done" and you had to reroll to play more ... would that be an MMO in your mind?

  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    shryke wrote:
    I'd say the most important characteristic of an MMO is what those three letters stand for.

    And I disagree that without the endgame an MMO is just a standard RPG with co-op. You till have the world, people running around in that world, and all the social aspects that go with that. Again, the things you actually DO in endgame is the same stuff you can do durng the rest of the game.

    That being said "endgame" is what pushes most people to keep playing, so yes it's important to MMOs and to TOR.

    It isn't though. You can't level at endgame anymore. Not the same way anyway, since content is finite.

    And no, the three words in MMO are not all that define the genre. If you hit max level and the game said "Ok, all done" and you had to reroll to play more ... would that be an MMO in your mind?

    Yes. Because it's still an RPG in a massively multiplayer world.

    But I'm not saying I think any game should just "end" like that. I'm saying that the endgame does not HAVE to be the big important thing, especially when lots of MMO players barely touch it to begin with. There would be nothing wrong with an MMO that puts much more effort into encouraging alts than encouraging endgame grinding in my book. Due to the nature of the genre you want to have some sort of incentive to keep playing, and right now the current state of endgame is what is used as that incentive. But it doesn't HAVE to be the incentive.

    To be honest I'm not sure why we're arguing about this, though. Since I'm not trying to say that TOR gets to avoid criticism of it's endgame or anything like that. It's trying to do a traditional endgame and doesn't do a very good job of it, and that's an issue with the game.

    I am also not saying that the current endgame setup is a problem and that games SHOULDN'T do it, either.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote:
    I'd say the most important characteristic of an MMO is what those three letters stand for.

    And I disagree that without the endgame an MMO is just a standard RPG with co-op. You till have the world, people running around in that world, and all the social aspects that go with that. Again, the things you actually DO in endgame is the same stuff you can do durng the rest of the game.

    That being said "endgame" is what pushes most people to keep playing, so yes it's important to MMOs and to TOR.

    It isn't though. You can't level at endgame anymore. Not the same way anyway, since content is finite.

    And no, the three words in MMO are not all that define the genre. If you hit max level and the game said "Ok, all done" and you had to reroll to play more ... would that be an MMO in your mind?

    Yes. Because it's still an RPG in a massively multiplayer world.

    Then this would have you disagreeing with essentially the entire MMO playerbase.

    But I'm not saying I think any game should just "end" like that. I'm saying that the endgame does not HAVE to be the big important thing, especially when lots of MMO players barely touch it to begin with. There would be nothing wrong with an MMO that puts much more effort into encouraging alts than encouraging endgame grinding in my book. Due to the nature of the genre you want to have some sort of incentive to keep playing, and right now the current state of endgame is what is used as that incentive. But it doesn't HAVE to be the incentive.

    If the game doesn't end, then there has to be an "endgame". There has to be something to do once you are done the leveling game. And since, over the lifetime of an MMO, more time is spent at max level then leveling, it's pretty damn important.

    To be honest I'm not sure why we're arguing about this, though. Since I'm not trying to say that TOR gets to avoid criticism of it's endgame or anything like that. It's trying to do a traditional endgame and doesn't do a very good job of it, and that's an issue with the game.

    I am also not saying that the current endgame setup is a problem and that games SHOULDN'T do it, either.

    The current endgame setup can be annoying but is not an issue anyone has yet solved. MMOs in general suffer from a huge dichotomy between "leveling" and "endgame" that makes the design all kinds of screwy.

  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    On the current talk of innovation: I play tor currently. I play a bounty hunter. Now one goes merc and takes every dark option, basically shooting every mook that comes within range. Somehow Mako is always surprised and somehow people still hire me to do delicate jobs or act as a diplomat.

    I Make a second BH and go powertech, now I choose every light option. By the time I make it to alderran I've only killed two dudes and frozen a couple others.

    So what is the difference? One has a blue blaster crystal and the other doesn't, because its light/neutral only.

    Literally any affection lost from mako I made up by buying her a doodad. No one treats my psychopathic mass murderer any different than the sweet old grandpa-esque nice guy. No matter how much wants to put tor up on a pedestal, the fact remains that the story is the same as ffxi was doing like 11 years go. What you choose has absolutely no difference on the actual plot. Just that very specific scene and then its never mentioned or referenced again.

    So, cool gimmick, but it doesn't innovate or change the mmo landscape at all, really. Because in the end the only roleplay is the personal tally sheet in your head, the game gives no fucks. Which is extremely disappointing but I guess expected. (I don't even count the voice acting as there have been f2p korean mmos with voice acting for ages now.)

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Opty wrote:
    Did no one notice DS 9? Super Mario 64 DS? Holy crap.

    How the fuck.

    I still haven't beaten it, myself.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    One way of continuing the levelling feel at max level is to give you something else to level. For example, if your useless exp pools and you can assign it to your equipment and level each one individually a couple times then you've completely changed the loot game. Since you'll be getting new gear you'll essentially never run out of places to put that exp and if you cap how much the player can pool then they're basically forced to use it at some point or be wasting exp again. Is there any MMO with a system like that out there?

  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Opty wrote:
    One way of continuing the levelling feel at max level is to give you something else to level. For example, if your useless exp pools and you can assign it to your equipment and level each one individually a couple times then you've completely changed the loot game. Since you'll be getting new gear you'll essentially never run out of places to put that exp and if you cap how much the player can pool then they're basically forced to use it at some point or be wasting exp again. Is there any MMO with a system like that out there?

    I'm sure there are others, but I know Anarchy Online has had a system like that for ages. Once you reach 200 you can earn shadow levels, and I think alien levels too as side things to do in order to still progress at the cap.

    The thing is, and while it worked fine in AO, it isn't any different really than simply adding more levels. Content starts being designed aroudn the assumption that people will have all 20 shadow/alien levels and then you're back to square one. You can't just keep making content targeted at the base 200, even with better gear, because then you either make content too easy for people with capped side levels, or you trivialize gear because you put too much emphasis on the extra levels.

    It's why the initial "path of titans" stuff they were going to put into cata was kind of silly in what they thought it would accomplish (they assumed it would be some side stuff that wasn't required that people could get what they "wanted", but they were underestimating the communities inability to not see everything as a way to simply make you increase your DPS by another .5%). OF course that morphed into what they're changing talent trees into again in MoP, and while I personally am all for the changes they're making, when it comes to end game stuff, despite their claims otherwise, there will still be the "correct" choices in skills for each class in order to compete in raid slots.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Opty wrote:
    One way of continuing the levelling feel at max level is to give you something else to level. For example, if your useless exp pools and you can assign it to your equipment and level each one individually a couple times then you've completely changed the loot game. Since you'll be getting new gear you'll essentially never run out of places to put that exp and if you cap how much the player can pool then they're basically forced to use it at some point or be wasting exp again. Is there any MMO with a system like that out there?

    It's no different then just getting new gear though. What's the difference between getting a new chest piece and leveling up my chest piece from X to X+1?

    The fundamental issue is that eventually you are gonna run out of content and need to repeat it to continue having something to do. That's why MMO endgame looks the way it does.

  • mere_immortalmere_immortal So tasty!Registered User regular
    4) Will ME3 be available on Steam?
    During initial release Mass Effect 3 will be available on Origin and a number of other 3rd party digital retailers, but not on Steam at this time. Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service which limit how developers interact with customers to deliver patches and other downloadable content. We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible experience no matter where they purchase or play their game, and are happy to partner with any download service that does not restrict our ability to connect directly with our consumers.

    That is the most ridiculous PR spin I have ever fucking seen.

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  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    Ever see a Sony PR Release about Playstation sales?

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  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    Algertman wrote:
    Ever see a Sony PR Release about Playstation Family sales?

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  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    Sony in the year 2025: "Look at these PS2 life time sales!"

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    Did Nintendo release a PR statement yet? I cannot seem to find one.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist Registered User regular
    4) Will ME3 be available on Steam?
    During initial release Mass Effect 3 will be available on Origin and a number of other 3rd party digital retailers, but not on Steam at this time. Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service which limit how developers interact with customers to deliver patches and other downloadable content. We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible experience no matter where they purchase or play their game, and are happy to partner with any download service that does not restrict our ability to connect directly with our consumers.

    That is the most ridiculous PR spin I have ever fucking seen.

    Okay, on one front, I can believe the interacting with customers thing - EA would probably like to boast about its sales, and can't through Steam without getting Valve's permission. On the other hand, they specifically say "Deliver patches and other downloadable content." In other words, they are still butthurt about Valve requiring games on Steam to be patched through Steam, and maybe even have their own unique executables.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Is Castlevania: Lords of Shadow worth picking up? I'm in the mood for something with lots of cool monsters and fun combat.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Huh, it's got an 83 on Metacritic.

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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Most people I talked to had a pretty good time with it. I'll probably get it myself but I haven't really felt like playing that kind of game at the moment.

  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Brings a Magic Infused Gun to a Swordfight. Registered User regular
    Is Castlevania: Lords of Shadow worth picking up? I'm in the mood for something with lots of cool monsters and fun combat.

    Yes.

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  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    Is Castlevania: Lords of Shadow worth picking up? I'm in the mood for something with lots of cool monsters and fun combat.

    It's really fucking good, I loved it.

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  • SkexisSkexis Registered User regular
    Is Castlevania: Lords of Shadow worth picking up? I'm in the mood for something with lots of cool monsters and fun combat.

    I'm in the minority, but I've been somewhat disappointed with their use of the Castlevania name put on what is basically a God of War game. If you enjoy brawlers and combos, by all means, check it out. The soundtrack is pretty dang good, though, which has actually been driving me to finish it.

  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    How long is it, exactly? I don't really care about how long the campaign is, as long as it's well paced, but I am curious about what kind of investment I'll be putting in.

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  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    How long is it, exactly? I don't really care about how long the campaign is, as long as it's well paced, but I am curious about what kind of investment I'll be putting in.

    Took me about 12-14 hours to beat I think.

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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Klyka wrote:
    Is Castlevania: Lords of Shadow worth picking up? I'm in the mood for something with lots of cool monsters and fun combat.

    It's really fucking good, I loved it.

    Its wonderful. Avoid the DLC at all costs. It actually takes away from the whole experience because of the ending. Its THAT bad.

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  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    The innovation isn't "there is a story" or "there is a good story" it is how that story is presented.

    The actual roleplaying is what the game offers that nothing else really does to anything close to the same extent. In FF you are participating in the story but how much are you shaping your character within it? Or are you just the generic hero who acts exactly the same in those cutscenes as every other PC?

    This is more or less true

    As good as the FFXI story is, your character is generally just a bystander for much of it.

    You still have to fight a boss here or there, but then you have an NPC with you during those times that handles all of the actual character interaction even in those situations.

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    Is Castlevania: Lords of Shadow worth picking up? I'm in the mood for something with lots of cool monsters and fun combat.

    As long as you go in knowing that it isn't really a Castlevania game, then you'll probably enjoy it. There is very little of the game that comes from it's namesake.

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  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    Super Mario 64 DS has the video game title that has been consistently sold on store shelves for the longest amount of time, not including PC releases (Because of the jewel case racks and blizzard games)

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  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    Brainiac 8 wrote:
    Did Nintendo release a PR statement yet? I cannot seem to find one.

    Nope. I don't think we got real numbers for 3DS either.

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  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    shryke wrote:
    shryke wrote:
    I'd say the most important characteristic of an MMO is what those three letters stand for.

    And I disagree that without the endgame an MMO is just a standard RPG with co-op. You till have the world, people running around in that world, and all the social aspects that go with that. Again, the things you actually DO in endgame is the same stuff you can do durng the rest of the game.

    That being said "endgame" is what pushes most people to keep playing, so yes it's important to MMOs and to TOR.

    It isn't though. You can't level at endgame anymore. Not the same way anyway, since content is finite.

    And no, the three words in MMO are not all that define the genre. If you hit max level and the game said "Ok, all done" and you had to reroll to play more ... would that be an MMO in your mind?

    Yes. Because it's still an RPG in a massively multiplayer world.

    Then this would have you disagreeing with essentially the entire MMO playerbase.

    Shryke lets just make this clear right now.

    You are one person mate. One. Uno. Finito.

    Do not talk as if you represent masses of players you have not met, do not know and have no idea about the opinions of.

    You only know about the loudest people. Don't invent any false authority.

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  • ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Algertman wrote:
    Brainiac 8 wrote:
    Did Nintendo release a PR statement yet? I cannot seem to find one.

    Nope. I don't think we got real numbers for 3DS either.
    Nintendo 3DS Crosses 4 Million Mark
    Driven by Fast-Selling Software Nintendo 3DS Sells More in Its First Nine Months Than Wii Did

    REDMOND, Wash.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Whether they were on the go or at home, whether they played in 2D on the TV or in glasses-free 3D in their hands, gamers of all ages celebrated the holidays with Mario™ and Zelda™. Super Mario 3D Land™ and Mario Kart™ 7 for the Nintendo 3DS™ system not only became the fastest-selling titles in the history of their respective franchises when they launched, but they are now also the first Nintendo 3DS titles to sell 1 million units each in the United States. On the console side, The Legend of Zelda™: Skyward Sword, which also broke launch records, became the 45th Wii™ title to sell more than 1 million units in the United States.

    “One of the strongest software lineups in our history helped Nintendo have a great holiday season and to close 2011 with a full head of steam,” said Scott Moffitt, Nintendo of America’s executive vice president of Sales & Marketing. “Not only have the new Mario and Zelda titles already broken records, but with strong reviews and satisfied customers sharing their positive experiences, all three are also shaping up to be the latest long-tail titles from Nintendo. Couple that with a massive first- and third party lineup in the first part of the year and the prospects for 2012 are extremely promising.”

    Nintendo sold more than 12 million total hardware units in the United States in 2011, marking the fifth year in a row that the company has accomplished that feat. This includes more than 4.5 million units of Wii, more than 4 million Nintendo 3DS systems, and more than 3.4 million units of the Nintendo DS™ family of systems. This brings the installed base for Wii and Nintendo DS to 39 million and more than 51 million, respectively.

    With a strong lineup of software on the horizon, including new installments in the Mario Party™, Pokémon™ and Kid Icarus™ franchises, as well as third-party games such as Resident Evil® Revelations from Capcom and METAL GEAR SOLID® 3D Snake Eater from Konami for Nintendo 3DS, that momentum should continue into the first quarter of 2012 and beyond.

    In addition to the milestones reached by new software, two evergreen Nintendo titles celebrated milestones as 2011 drew to a close. Mario Kart Wii™ passed 11 million units sold and New Super Mario Bros.™ for the Nintendo DS family crossed 10 million total units sold.

    Remember that Wii and Nintendo 3DS feature parental controls that let adults manage the content their children can access. For more information about this and other features, visit http://www.nintendo.com/wii or http://www.nintendo.com/3ds.

    Chen on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Hedgethorn wrote:
    Hedgethorn wrote:
    360 moved 1.7 million units, down about 8% from last December.

    gaf calculates from various hints that the Wii and PS3 both sold about 1 million even (Wii: 1.05 mill, PS3: 950K).

    The Wii is down 55% Year over Year; the PS3 is down about 22%. Bring on the price cuts and the new consoles!

    Aren't some places already cutting the Wii to 99 dollars? That seems about right for a console that will soon be replaced by another one.

    Edit:
    http://penny-arcade.smugmug.com/photos/i-SM4zL2V/0/L/i-SM4zL2V-XL.jpg
    Hehehehe.

    Couscous on
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    shryke wrote:
    And no, the three words in MMO are not all that define the genre. If you hit max level and the game said "Ok, all done" and you had to reroll to play more ... would that be an MMO in your mind?
    When that happens, I stop playing the game, sure. But I stop playing ALL games, eventually. I can't speak for everyone, but all of my current friends who actively play video games stick with an MMO for a while, then lose interest and stop playing. If you hit max level, and there's nothing more to do, you stop playing (at least, if you want to play other games... maybe you don't? And that would be perfectly fine). It's still an MMO, even when it runs out of content. Being able to "play it forever" isn't a requirement for an MMO.

    I don't care about MMO endgames, just like I often don't care about endgames in other video games. For nearly all MMOs, that's 70-100 hours down the line (and usually longer). I stop playing it when I no longer find it to be enjoyable or fun (or more often, when my friends no longer find it to be enjoyable or fun). There are other games out there.

    Di87pOF.jpg
    PSN: Hahnsoo | MHGU: Hahnsoo, Switch FC: SW-0085-2679-5212
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    shryke wrote:
    shryke wrote:
    I'd say the most important characteristic of an MMO is what those three letters stand for.

    And I disagree that without the endgame an MMO is just a standard RPG with co-op. You till have the world, people running around in that world, and all the social aspects that go with that. Again, the things you actually DO in endgame is the same stuff you can do durng the rest of the game.

    That being said "endgame" is what pushes most people to keep playing, so yes it's important to MMOs and to TOR.

    It isn't though. You can't level at endgame anymore. Not the same way anyway, since content is finite.

    And no, the three words in MMO are not all that define the genre. If you hit max level and the game said "Ok, all done" and you had to reroll to play more ... would that be an MMO in your mind?

    Yes. Because it's still an RPG in a massively multiplayer world.

    Then this would have you disagreeing with essentially the entire MMO playerbase.

    Shryke lets just make this clear right now.

    You are one person mate. One. Uno. Finito.

    Do not talk as if you represent masses of players you have not met, do not know and have no idea about the opinions of.

    You only know about the loudest people. Don't invent any false authority.

    I'm sorry, but you are full of shit here. Even a cursory glance at anything related to MMOs and the people who play them will tell you that, yes, this is a big deal.

    Despite your assertions, we actually do have ideas about the opinions of gamers.

    shryke on
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