I didn't realize till getting into this thread that the monster was fifield. I thought it was Noomi's husband. I saw the door open and a burnt up guy at the base of the ship and assumed it was him.
I admit I didn't have a very good grasp of the various character's names.
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
So I'm the last person in the world to have seen this, but I got to see it in 3d in a large theater completely alone. So it was worth it. The first third was close to a religious experience in terms of just out and out beautiful imagery and atmosphere. The rest kinda just went a bit bonkers and felt like a lot of scenes were missing..
Not answers about the Engineers and stuff, that stuff seemed pretty ok with being mysterious and ambigous. More so the fact that no one even really had reactions to Shaw having the baby alien and escaping them screamed of deleted scenes.
That said, I think the Alien franchise (and I am including Prometheus in this) is great at making amazing films or really interesting failures.
I wouldn't classify this as a failure entirely, but it definitely edges closer to that.
But that said, I am way ok with really cool-cock ups. Especially when it's because they are overambitious.
basically i can't wait to see the director's cut because man i just wanted more of this movie, and it sounds and looks like they left out really cool shit
So, me and some friends are just starting an Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 marathon tonight (Resurrection later maybe?)
Going to see Prometheus tomorrow. Scanning the pages, sounds like 3D is done well, but not a must-see? Convince me what I should see tomorrow, 2D or 3D.
Steam
3DS FC: 4699-5714-8940 Playing Pokemon, add me! Ho, SATAN!
I just got back from seeing this. I'm so late that I'm resurrecting this thread from page 3
I think the idea of including the alien universe/character was a poor decision. If you remove the whole "omg its alien" and about 80% of the human characters, you might end up with a decent scifi Odyssey.
This just felt like they took 2001, or moon, and smeared 80s monster movie all over it to the point where you almost lose sight of the fact they're 41 light years from earth.
Not one of the characters seems to appreciate the fact they've discovered not only a nearly habitable planet (moon technically but fuck off who cares) BUT ALSO extra terrestrial humans that have apparently communicated with us for millennia.
I just feel that a movie with 4-8 scientists (no toolbox geologist/unreal tournament character) that discover a new world that holds a key to our origin, would be so much better than what we got.
I wanted a Kubrick-esque epic and I got a teen slasher movie in spaaaaaaace
I just got back from seeing this. I'm so late that I'm resurrecting this thread from page 3
Also committing dark necro acts to pitch in with my take on this (excellent) film:
Unless Ridley Scott set out to make a chaotic film (and he may have) an interpretation of what it's supposed to mean has to incorporate all of the elements. I'm not offering this as an explanation or a puzzle solution, but I think the themes of the film can be tied together into a coherent whole.
The film obviously hinges on various "parental abandonment" themes in there multiple incarnations (ranging from parent-child to God-man). The two key relationships we're obviously supposed to find very similar are that between David and his creators (the humans) and that between the humans and the engineers.
David
I don't buy that David is a robot and therefore he has no emotions, Fassbender was obviously playing David to have feelings. I think the character of David in this film taps into key questions about what it actually means to be a sentient being. It is deeply ironic (surely not unintentional) to have Shaw's faith be an unusual thing in the film, but to still have the humans differentiate themselves from David by saying he does not have a "soul". The treatment of David in the film reminds me of Gilbert Ryle, or other philosophers who take a very reductionist view of what makes a human mind. If you were constantly told that you understood emotions but did not properly feel them like real humans did could you end up believing it? If you were told that you were built without ethical restraints on your behaviour would you not do what you wanted? David's behaviour is not "human" and he would be unlikely to end up in that exact state, but he's moving towards something. It's worth noticing that Weyland refers to Nietzsche in some of the viral material, saying that man is a bridge to the overman. David is an implementation of the Nietzschian Ubermensch (weirdly he is not Weyland's implementation as Weyland seems to not hold much respect for him - maybe disputable).
Religion
You could mine the shit out of Nietzsche for things that might have a significant bearing on this film, for example: "I love those who do not first seek a reason beyond the stars for going down and being sacrifices, but sacrifice themselves to the earth, that the earth may become the Overman's."
It seems to me that there must be two distinct types of Engineer. These might have been two competing factions existing at the same time, two castes in the same society, or a development from one to the other. One is religious and concerned with creating life. This is the one that seeded the earth and arranged the black fluid jars in a ritualistic fashion in a room with a huge (time-intensive) and presumably useless carved stone head. The other is more technological, less graceful (consider the movements of the sacrifice at the beginning), elsewhere in the film we see the same black fluid jars that were treated with respect earlier arranged into a cargo bay with no sentimentality at all. Maybe the Engineers were themselves created by the black fluid which they saw as somehow holy until they studied it in more detail? Perhaps that was when they lost whatever faith they had?
The other bit of Nietzsche that everyone remembers is the death of God, I am going to give you this in full below the spoilter because I think reading the whole thing gives a huge insight into the film. Remember, the link to Nietzsche isn't something I just came up with (though I do love Nietzsche), it was given to us at the end of the film. David wants to kill his creator because he desires the freedom that Nietzsche mentions (paragraph 3). He tells Shaw as much. This is not the mood that the humans have on visiting the Engineers initially, but as David says, what will they do if they are disappointed with the answer? Or if there is no good answer? (I think this is the source of his confusion at the end and Shaw is STILL in denial.) Think back to Blade Runner! I think the reason why the Engineers are afraid of humanity (why seek to exterminate something that you are not afraid of?) is that they know that the humans will want to kill them when they find out their lives are meaningless (remember Weyland's last words to David?).
I have more to say, but I will only continue if some people are enjoying this. Here is the super-relevant Nietzsche, as promised:
THE MADMAN, Friedrich Nietzsche
Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly: "I seek God! I seek God!" -- As many of those who did not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter. Has he got lost? asked one. Did he lose his way like a child? asked another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? emigrated? -- Thus they yelled and laughed.
The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. "Whither is God?" he cried; "I will tell you. We have killed him -- you and I. All of us are his murderers. But how did we do this? How could we drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning? Do we hear nothing as yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we smell nothing as yet of the divine decomposition? Gods, too, decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.
"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."
Here the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they, too, were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke into pieces and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time is not yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering; it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time; the light of the stars requires time; deeds, though done, still require time to be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than most distant stars -- and yet they have done it themselves.
It has been related further that on the same day the madman forced his way into several churches and there struck up his requiem aeternam deo. Led out and called to account, he is said always to have replied nothing but: "What after all are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchers of God?"
Prometheus started filming a while ago- right at the time we were in preproduction on PACIFIC RIM. The title itself gave me pause- knowing that ALIEN was heavily influenced by Lovecraft and his novella.
This time, decades later with the budget and place Ridley Scott occupied, I assumed the greek metaphor alluded at the creation aspects of the HPL book. I believe I am right and if so, as a fan, I am delighted to see a new RS science fiction film, but this will probably mark a long pause -if not the demise- of ATMOM.
The sad part is- I have been pursuing ATMOM for over a decade now- and, well, after Hellboy II two projects I dearly loved were not brought to fruition for me.
The good part is: One project did… And I am loving it and grateful for the blessings I have received.
and then when pressed further
“Same premise. Scenes that would be almost identical. Both movies seem to share identical set pieces and the exact same BIG REVELATION (twist) at the end. I won’t spoil it,”
Posts
I admit I didn't have a very good grasp of the various character's names.
https://medium.com/@alascii
That said, I think the Alien franchise (and I am including Prometheus in this) is great at making amazing films or really interesting failures.
I wouldn't classify this as a failure entirely, but it definitely edges closer to that.
But that said, I am way ok with really cool-cock ups. Especially when it's because they are overambitious.
these are awesome, cool stuff
needed about 8 less cast members and a much better protagonist, but I liked it
Going to see Prometheus tomorrow. Scanning the pages, sounds like 3D is done well, but not a must-see? Convince me what I should see tomorrow, 2D or 3D.
3DS FC: 4699-5714-8940 Playing Pokemon, add me! Ho, SATAN!
Satans..... hints.....
(how is 3dd??)
somebody's never experienced 3D porn
3DS FC: 4699-5714-8940 Playing Pokemon, add me! Ho, SATAN!
It's like a whole new dimension of 3d.
Yes I did.
3DS FC: 4699-5714-8940 Playing Pokemon, add me! Ho, SATAN!
Very good sir.
This just felt like they took 2001, or moon, and smeared 80s monster movie all over it to the point where you almost lose sight of the fact they're 41 light years from earth.
Not one of the characters seems to appreciate the fact they've discovered not only a nearly habitable planet (moon technically but fuck off who cares) BUT ALSO extra terrestrial humans that have apparently communicated with us for millennia.
I just feel that a movie with 4-8 scientists (no toolbox geologist/unreal tournament character) that discover a new world that holds a key to our origin, would be so much better than what we got.
I wanted a Kubrick-esque epic and I got a teen slasher movie in spaaaaaaace
STEAM!
Satans..... hints.....
Also committing dark necro acts to pitch in with my take on this (excellent) film:
Unless Ridley Scott set out to make a chaotic film (and he may have) an interpretation of what it's supposed to mean has to incorporate all of the elements. I'm not offering this as an explanation or a puzzle solution, but I think the themes of the film can be tied together into a coherent whole.
David
I don't buy that David is a robot and therefore he has no emotions, Fassbender was obviously playing David to have feelings. I think the character of David in this film taps into key questions about what it actually means to be a sentient being. It is deeply ironic (surely not unintentional) to have Shaw's faith be an unusual thing in the film, but to still have the humans differentiate themselves from David by saying he does not have a "soul". The treatment of David in the film reminds me of Gilbert Ryle, or other philosophers who take a very reductionist view of what makes a human mind. If you were constantly told that you understood emotions but did not properly feel them like real humans did could you end up believing it? If you were told that you were built without ethical restraints on your behaviour would you not do what you wanted? David's behaviour is not "human" and he would be unlikely to end up in that exact state, but he's moving towards something. It's worth noticing that Weyland refers to Nietzsche in some of the viral material, saying that man is a bridge to the overman. David is an implementation of the Nietzschian Ubermensch (weirdly he is not Weyland's implementation as Weyland seems to not hold much respect for him - maybe disputable).
Religion
You could mine the shit out of Nietzsche for things that might have a significant bearing on this film, for example:
"I love those who do not first seek a reason beyond the stars for going down and being sacrifices, but sacrifice themselves to the earth, that the earth may become the Overman's."
It seems to me that there must be two distinct types of Engineer. These might have been two competing factions existing at the same time, two castes in the same society, or a development from one to the other. One is religious and concerned with creating life. This is the one that seeded the earth and arranged the black fluid jars in a ritualistic fashion in a room with a huge (time-intensive) and presumably useless carved stone head. The other is more technological, less graceful (consider the movements of the sacrifice at the beginning), elsewhere in the film we see the same black fluid jars that were treated with respect earlier arranged into a cargo bay with no sentimentality at all. Maybe the Engineers were themselves created by the black fluid which they saw as somehow holy until they studied it in more detail? Perhaps that was when they lost whatever faith they had?
The other bit of Nietzsche that everyone remembers is the death of God, I am going to give you this in full below the spoilter because I think reading the whole thing gives a huge insight into the film. Remember, the link to Nietzsche isn't something I just came up with (though I do love Nietzsche), it was given to us at the end of the film. David wants to kill his creator because he desires the freedom that Nietzsche mentions (paragraph 3). He tells Shaw as much. This is not the mood that the humans have on visiting the Engineers initially, but as David says, what will they do if they are disappointed with the answer? Or if there is no good answer? (I think this is the source of his confusion at the end and Shaw is STILL in denial.) Think back to Blade Runner! I think the reason why the Engineers are afraid of humanity (why seek to exterminate something that you are not afraid of?) is that they know that the humans will want to kill them when they find out their lives are meaningless (remember Weyland's last words to David?).
I have more to say, but I will only continue if some people are enjoying this. Here is the super-relevant Nietzsche, as promised:
Prometheus sequel is a go, coming 2014 or 2015.
Perhaps all those unanswered questions will be resolved!
Only to be replaced with even more head-scratching questions!
who thought this was a good idea?
question thirteen thousand eight hundred fifty seven:
who thought this was a good idea?
Ridley Scott, presumably
get jokes sometimes
Steam
Goddammit. Del Toro doing At the Mountains of Madness would have been amazing.
Steam
I seek revenge for this murder
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