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The Book of the New [chat]

JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
edited December 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
wiki wrote:
The Book of the New Sun is a novel in four parts written (1980–83) by science fiction and fantasy author Gene Wolfe. It chronicles the journey and ascent to power of Severian, a disgraced journeyman torturer who rises to the position of Autarch, the one ruler of the free world. Severian, who claims that he has perfect memory, tells the story in first person; the books are presented by Wolfe as a translation of Severian's writings into contemporary English. The series takes place in the distant future, where the Sun has dimmed considerably and the Earth (referred to in the series as "Urth") is slowly cooling.

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A few of you (JamesWMoar, MaxCairnduff, RobKill, AddisonSteele) had warned me not to tackle Wolfe while I was still reeling from the intense Elizabethan-style English of The Worm Ouroboros (or his "linguistic porridge", as AddisonSteele put it – true, but I do like porridge). I imagined that I'd be glooping along through olde worlde syntax, but Wolfe isn't like that at all. Yes, there's plenty of odd words – "fuligin" for black, "carnifex" for torturer, "destriers", which are sort of super-horses. But I found this all added to the other-ness of the world Wolfe has created; I didn't exactly understand some words until I looked them up but I knew what he meant by them, and I loved his "note on translation" at the end of the first book, when he tells us how he went about "rendering this book - originally composed in a tongue that has not yet achieved existence – into English". Did you warner-offers find it irritating? I really enjoyed it.

Also, while The Shadow of the Torturer won the World fantasy award in 1981 and has the trappings of fantasy (young man, long sword, mysterious destiny), surely it's really science fiction? Set a million years in the future on a world with a dying sun, where the moon is green and irrigated, daylight is red, and "rotting jungles" circle "the waist of the world", it follows the story of Severian, a torturer in the decaying Citadel who shows mercy to a prisoner he's fallen in love with. Rather than being killed for his crime, he's exiled, given an ancient sword (Terminus Est) and sent to the distant city of Thrax. On his way out of the vast urban sprawl of Nessus, his adventures include fighting a duel with a flower (more deadly than it sounds), accidentally stealing the Claw of the Conciliator (a glowing, seemingly magical jewel) from a temple and fishing a girl, Dorcas, out of a lake where the dead are sunk.

The story is recounted by Severian himself from a position in the future. He is, I suspect, brilliantly unreliable; as well as the challenge of picking through his statements, this is a world which Wolfe never explains directly – the reader has to piece its realities together, which is hugely satisfying.

He goes on to perform a couple of executions, meet a mysterious troupe of travelling players, escape underground man-apes who have mutated from their human origins through "eons of struggles in the dark" and take part in a cannibalistic ritual which confers the substance of a dead person's mind to the eater. We even get a bit of Christopher Marlowe. I'd worried that Severian's occupation would mean endless gruesome descriptions of torture, but this isn't the case at all – apart from a leg-peeling, a excoriated dog, and Severian's few beheadings, Wolfe steers clear of the grisly, and manages to make his torturer-hero if not sympathetic, then definitely charismatic. (Unlike Terry Goodkind, who seems to revel in his Mord-Sith's perversions – although mentioning Goodkind in the same blog as Wolfe feels a bit sacrilegious, so apologies for bringing him up.)

I loved Shadow and Claw – was blown away, in fact. The whole thing is dreamlike in quality, unfathomably large in scope, deliciously, slyly puzzling. It's enormous fun picking away at Severian's ideas about the past of his far future Urth, at the mysteries of his companions Jonas (why does he have a mechanical hand?) and Dorcas (was she resurrected?), at what the Claw might actually be – and at how truthful and accurate our narrator, for all his protestations that he remembers "every rattling chain and whistling wind, every sight, smell and taste", really is. "Trust the text implicitly. The answers are in there," Gaiman tells us. Then "do not trust the text farther than you can throw it, if that far. It's tricksy and desperate stuff, and it may go off in your hand at any time." I think a second read is definitely going to be in order; I'm also champing at the bit for the second half to arrive.

Jacobkosh on
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Posts

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    YAY

  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    When I grow up, I too want to become a journeyman torturer.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    let us talk about my terrible addiction to Skyrim and how I only have like 400 more hours until I have 100% completion
    then I will complete all the quests
    then I will buy all the houses
    then I will devote my time to filling an entire room with jewels and shiny things
    then I will...

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    let us talk about my terrible addiction to Skyrim and how I only have like 400 more hours until I have 100% completion
    then I will complete all the quests
    then I will buy all the houses
    then I will devote my time to filling an entire room with jewels and shiny things
    then I will...

    "read all the books" needs to be on this list

  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Skyrim seemed kind of boring.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote:
    let us talk about my terrible addiction to Skyrim and how I only have like 400 more hours until I have 100% completion
    then I will complete all the quests
    then I will buy all the houses
    then I will devote my time to filling an entire room with jewels and shiny things
    then I will...

    "read all the books" needs to be on this list
    I got excited because I found a book I hadn't read in one of the Jarl's bedrooms.
    Like, I'm narrating all the characters in Skyrim and watching their lives.
    Spoiler
    When I broke into this lady's house in Windhelm and she was dead on the floor with a note, it broke my heart. She committed suicide after her daughter was murdered in Windhelm and after I killed her other daughter for the Assassin's Guild.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Pancakes can be sold unfrozen and eaten cold or toasted or microwaved.

  • This content has been removed.

  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I wish SWTOR would have different maintenance periods for Europe and NA. As it is now, the servers will be closed for the entire day for us over here - while most NA players probably won't even notice because it's only until morning for them. Racism.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Honk wrote:
    I wish SWTOR would have different maintenance periods for Europe and NA. As it is now, the servers will be closed for the entire day for us over here - while most NA players probably won't even notice because it's only until morning for them. Racism.

    Americacentrism might be more appropriate.

  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Honk wrote:
    I wish SWTOR would have different maintenance periods for Europe and NA. As it is now, the servers will be closed for the entire day for us over here - while most NA players probably won't even notice because it's only until morning for them. Racism.

    Americacentrism might be more appropriate.

    RACISTS

    PSN: Honkalot
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Speaking about the future, I saw Blade Runner the other day. It's set in 2019, which of course is pretty silly. Is that a legacy from when Dick wrote it?

    Because I think Ridley Scott would have had foresight to set it much further into the future if it were up to him.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    But what if one or two Americans played on the EU servers? IS THAT FAIR TO THEM?!

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    As an American,

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    I'm going to bed. Love you all!

  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr PEWPEWPEW!!! America's WangRegistered User regular
    How long is the maintenance supposed to last?

    I wanted to get a couple things done before bed when I got home.

    Steam
    So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    It's eta is 5pm CET/4pm GMT.

    So the whooooooole day.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    That is retarded. I used to have to put up with strange downtime back when I played UO (there were no European servers until towards the end of the game's lifetime).

    It was especially annoying, as the servers would shit down and then you'd have lost the last hour. Sometimes this would lead to weird bugs too, like item duplication and so forth. And if you were caught with identical items you could be banned. It was a well thought out system.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Eating a muffin! Om nom nom

  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr PEWPEWPEW!!! America's WangRegistered User regular
    So that's...

    *calculations*

    11am EST?

    Crap.

    Steam
    So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    RMS, are you in ENGERLAND now?

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I am in the land of the angles and saxons, yes.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    This is a test of my samsung security to speak couples rather than right it.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    It could refined howard tell security apart from ability and couples from post an right right

  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr PEWPEWPEW!!! America's WangRegistered User regular
    SWTOR likes to mess with me.

    I will log out someplace, usually by a quest giver I just picked up the quest from. Then when I log back in, I will be the nearby Cantina. Last time it happened, Sunday, I ended up with 86k rested XP. :D

    Then on Monday, I logged in and had a pair of Orange Sith heavy armor pants in my inventory. They were lvl 19 and I was lvl 36, so I know I didn't pick them up from a mob accidentally.

    Steam
    So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Man UO. I love that game.

    Played it for nostalgia not too long ago, like last year or 2009 or something.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    It's an example of how not to implement a house system in an MMO though. That free market was rough, everything cost so so much. Because every buildable plot was already taken by players. Also it was weird that the entire map was covered in houses at all times. The most hostile jungle looked like a suburb.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    I wonder how much of knowing about economics is merely being able to appreciate a multitude of models so that you don't get stuck in an intellectual rut where you have one hammer and everything looks like a nail.

    Relatedly, I wonder how much of the Internet Armchair Austrian Economist fad is due to terrible economics education.

    aRkpc.gif
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Hmm, Manchester City Centre, Stockport or Trafford Centre?

  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    Hmm, Manchester City Centre, Stockport or Trafford Centre?
    Stockport is a shithole.

    So, one of the others. Trafford centre is horrifyingly large. It might also be very busy.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    Honk wrote:
    It's an example of how not to implement a house system in an MMO though. That free market was rough, everything cost so so much. Because every buildable plot was already taken by players. Also it was weird that the entire map was covered in houses at all times. The most hostile jungle looked like a suburb.
    It was a super bold move. And I loved having physical housing. Do MMOs even have player houses still? I played a few that had stupid instanced ones, but why would you want that?

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    The mobile site seems to have disappeared. Hmm.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Clearing my cookies seems to have sorted it out. Yay.

  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    Just bought a laptop - Lenovo G570 43347FJ.

    Pretty good specs for 40,000 monies, I'd say.

    I figure I could take a bear.
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    Googling suggests Runescape has player houses, using instances.

    aRkpc.gif
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    If I rule the world, the stanard currency will be labelled 'Monies'. Or maybe 'Gil'.

  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Don't think any game did it like UO.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    So what I actually mean is more like, physical housing was really great. But you had to be in before the rush, which I imagine was something like a week after they released houses. A house deed cost from like 70k UO gold and up. As a new player, you were never ever in the history of time going to get a house because all the plots had been used - which meant you needed to buy from a player and even the smallest houses and plots cost from 10 million and up. It was insane.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    I had a tower, because I was an old player. I planted that deed myself. I wish I'd sold the fucker when I got bored and stopped.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    I'd guess MMO wealth is one of those things that doesn't even vaguely resemble a normal distribution.

    The cool stuff should NEVER be only available on the open market.

    I figure I could take a bear.
This discussion has been closed.