Just my good friend has one in half bm/half champ gear and feels significantly weaker. He has always been a top pvp'er in other games, so if you are right, then that gives me some hope. Im sitting at level 48, and have noticed some differences.
Just my good friend has one in half bm/half champ gear and feels significantly weaker. He has always been a top pvp'er in other games, so if you are right, then that gives me some hope. Im sitting at level 48, and have noticed some differences.
I'm not even in full champion gear yet and I'm only valor ranked 47.
The only appreciable advantage I may have over the average TOR PVPer is a Razer Naga (yes it does make that much of a difference given how fast I can use contextually appropriate abilities compared to enemies ). I really don't feel gimped at all, and even the recent nerfs feel somewhat fair.
If you're on Iron Citadel then let me know and we can queue together once you're level 50, but trust me Operative isn't getting the shaft in this game.
Got 5 points in a huttball match and was told not to score anymore. I said no, don't be a dick and scored, and got a whisper after. "There is a difference between being a dick and making use of the time you spend in a queue to get the most commendations possible... so YOU are dumb, SUPER SUPER DUMB."
I disagree. I feel like juggling the ball around for 8 minutes to farm the enemy team, completely wasting their time, is an incredibly rude and pointless thing to do. Anyone feel differently? It blows my mind people think that this isn't dickish.
The enemy has it coming. The only good [Applicable Team Name] is a dead [Applicable Team Name]
One thing in pvp that makes me giggle is seeing people try to backpedal away from my operative. Often they're waddling along and I'm still strafing behind them shanking away.
Basil on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I'm really disliking PvP so far as an Operative at 50. Yes I'm undoubtedly undergeared compared to many I'm facing, but that isn't what I'm mad about. I feel impotent to control a fight from a skill standpoint. The only thing we had was that 3-sec knockdown deep in Concealment. So yeah, once every 2-3 mins you could totally faceroll 1 person. Yay?
Meanwhile Huttball and Voidstar are all about control and feature environmental deaths. Unfortunately I can't do any of that almost. My 2sec heal barely does 20% of someones healthbar, meanwhile they get hit for 2x as much damage in that time. (And apparently some classes up upwards of 3-4 interrupts) I've got 1 stun on a 45-sec timer. Eviscerate/Headshot don't work in PvP. Frag grenade knockback doesn't work in PvP. I don't have a running boost, leap, or pull ability either. So I get to watch people speed off with the ball in Huttball, knock then stun me into fire/poison, knock me off the bridge to my death on Voidstar etc. I can't do any of that. I get to limp around at base speeds and in group combat I can't even probably keep a snare on them due to the way CC rules work.
It's unbelievable that they would repeat the same mistakes of Rogue pvp in WoW in this game. Asfaras making them a "3min wonder class" that has to "POP ALL THE COOLDOWNS!" to kill someone effectively.
You know you can cloak as soon as your target is dead provided that you don't take damage from anyone else, right? This means that you should only be selecting the targets with the lowest health if they're with a group to maximize your stealth time.
The class has plenty of CC. Flashbang/Sever Tendon/Debilitate are more than enough to get the job done, and at 50 you can make it up the whole Concealment tree and still spec to reduce the cooldown of debilitate. Here's my PVP build.
You get a movement speed buff from debilitate and cloaking screen using that build, and sever tendon immobilizes and slows a single target long enough to essentially give you a relative speed boost (and it has a very short cooldown). I never feel wanting for CC as an operative and frequently top the charts. In my opinion the class feels pretty strong in PVP and this my first MMO in 8 years so it certainly can't be due to any experience advantage that I have over you.
The problem I'm running into is that if you aren't fighting morons, you yourself get CC'd to oblivion once you jump one guy and their entire backline turns on you.
I'm 18/0/23, though, so at least I have some options if it's too hot to go in, but still.
I also don't feel particularly relevant in actually capping or stopping a cap in Huttball or getting anything done in Voidstar, but Civil War is amazing. Topping the charts isn't directly relevant to winning; ops simply have no forced movement skills of any kind so there's not much they can do.
Got 5 points in a huttball match and was told not to score anymore. I said no, don't be a dick and scored, and got a whisper after. "There is a difference between being a dick and making use of the time you spend in a queue to get the most commendations possible... so YOU are dumb, SUPER SUPER DUMB."
I disagree. I feel like juggling the ball around for 8 minutes to farm the enemy team, completely wasting their time, is an incredibly rude and pointless thing to do. Anyone feel differently? It blows my mind people think that this isn't dickish.
Farming is a dick move. But some people don't have issues being a dick to the opposing faction.
Personally, I prefer to just end the blow out and move on to the next map.
Got 5 points in a huttball match and was told not to score anymore. I said no, don't be a dick and scored, and got a whisper after. "There is a difference between being a dick and making use of the time you spend in a queue to get the most commendations possible... so YOU are dumb, SUPER SUPER DUMB."
I disagree. I feel like juggling the ball around for 8 minutes to farm the enemy team, completely wasting their time, is an incredibly rude and pointless thing to do. Anyone feel differently? It blows my mind people think that this isn't dickish.
There is another problem going on here though, if thats the most efficient way to gain valor the quickest... then people are gonna do it. If the developers implemented some methods to make finishing quicker also beneficial, then it might not happen as much.
The big problem though, is how long the queues can be sometimes so making the most of every WZ is just something people are going to do. If there was cross server WZ's to make queues much faster, then you would see this farming crap go away quick.
Having to grind in PVP is stupid in the first place though... but that grind keeps people around longer, so there's that.
Farming is and always has been a dick move. If you are farming them, the other team can basically do nothing. Trust me, they just want to leave.
But it's a product of any warzone/battleground/etc where the game doesn't automatically chug towards the end regardless of player input.
It might be dick... but so is having a premade that totally outgears the other team. So is heavily using FOTM classes.
It don't see why it should be the players responsibility to setup an "even" match... so farming a team that can't do anything is going to happen.
The issue is that the victory rewards aren't better than the farming rewards.
Farming is and always has been a dick move. If you are farming them, the other team can basically do nothing. Trust me, they just want to leave.
But it's a product of any warzone/battleground/etc where the game doesn't automatically chug towards the end regardless of player input.
It might be dick... but so is having a premade that totally outgears the other team. So is heavily using FOTM classes.
It don't see why it should be the players responsibility to setup an "even" match... so farming a team that can't do anything is going to happen.
The issue is that the victory rewards aren't better than the farming rewards.
No, it's way more dickish then that.
A premade that totally outgears you will stomp you. And then they will win and it will be over.
Farming another team is when you deliberately don't win in order to keep stomping over the same people over and over again. They are no longer trying to win the game (which is the point of the warzone), they are just trying to kill you over and over again.
It's like if you were playing hockey and the other team sucked so bad you just took the puck and skated in circles without ever trying to score, just to run out the clock. Or I guess basketball if the other team just passed it back and forth till the shot-clock ran out. And then took the ball off the other team and did that again and again and again till the game was over. Or some other similar sports analogy.
Any of that is considered a complete dick move.
That it is the most efficient way to farm rewards is certainly the base issue. But that doesn't excuse people being dicks.
Got 5 points in a huttball match and was told not to score anymore. I said no, don't be a dick and scored, and got a whisper after. "There is a difference between being a dick and making use of the time you spend in a queue to get the most commendations possible... so YOU are dumb, SUPER SUPER DUMB."
I disagree. I feel like juggling the ball around for 8 minutes to farm the enemy team, completely wasting their time, is an incredibly rude and pointless thing to do. Anyone feel differently? It blows my mind people think that this isn't dickish.
Was it Killjoy? He called me a pussy when I said 'no' to his demand that we farm a while back, PUG vs PUG, but he sounded even less eloquent than your new PVP coach.
Yeah, I would never farm a team in huttball for medals. Getting 20 or 30 more WZ comms in one match is not worth wasting other people's time and being an ass. It's just not the kind of person I am.
The problem I'm running into is that if you aren't fighting morons, you yourself get CC'd to oblivion once you jump one guy and their entire backline turns on you.
I'm 18/0/23, though, so at least I have some options if it's too hot to go in, but still.
I also don't feel particularly relevant in actually capping or stopping a cap in Huttball or getting anything done in Voidstar, but Civil War is amazing. Topping the charts isn't directly relevant to winning; ops simply have no forced movement skills of any kind so there's not much they can do.
If the entire back line is turning on you rather than focusing on the rest of your team then I fail to see how they aren't morons. You shouldn't be attacking alone.
If your build doesn't add to your CC tool belt then I don't know why you would complain about a lack of CC. As a DPS spec topping the charts in kills and damage is very important. If their healers spend the majority of their time respawning or healing themselves then you've put the enemy team at a disadvantage. If you constantly kill the ball carrier or kill those who would prevent your team from scoring then you are contributing to the team. Hidden Strike/Sever Tendon/Debilitate/Flashbang are more than enough CC for me.
Edit: I can usually CC the majority of team by using all of the abilities which can allow my team to put a large amount of distance between the defenders after a door is blown or a bridge is extended in voidstar.
Farming is and always has been a dick move. If you are farming them, the other team can basically do nothing. Trust me, they just want to leave.
But it's a product of any warzone/battleground/etc where the game doesn't automatically chug towards the end regardless of player input.
It might be dick... but so is having a premade that totally outgears the other team.
There's nothing wrong with this.
How are people supposed to know if the other team is undergeared? Are they supposed to come to an agreement before the match on how much expertise everyone is allowed to use?
Edit: If you consider that to be unethical then you should also feel that premades that are undergeared are also comprised of dicks. The problem is with the gear system and the lack of Valor rank brackets, not the people in the premades.
Taranis on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
The problem I'm running into is that if you aren't fighting morons, you yourself get CC'd to oblivion once you jump one guy and their entire backline turns on you.
I'm 18/0/23, though, so at least I have some options if it's too hot to go in, but still.
I also don't feel particularly relevant in actually capping or stopping a cap in Huttball or getting anything done in Voidstar, but Civil War is amazing. Topping the charts isn't directly relevant to winning; ops simply have no forced movement skills of any kind so there's not much they can do.
If the entire back line is turning on you rather than focusing on the rest of your team then I fail to see how they aren't morons. You shouldn't be attacking alone.
If your build doesn't add to your CC tool belt then I don't know why you would complain about a lack of CC. As a DPS spec topping the charts in kills and damage is very important. If their healers spend the majority of their time respawning or healing themselves then you've put the enemy team at a disadvantage. If you constantly kill the ball carrier or kill those who would prevent your team from scoring then you are contributing to the team. Hidden Strike/Sever Tendon/Debilitate/Flashbang are more than enough CC for me.
Edit: I can usually CC the majority of team by using all of the abilities which can allow my team to put a large amount of distance between the defenders after a door is blown or a bridge is extended in voidstar.
Ops are squishier than most other classes. They're a great focus target.
Solo stealther, everyone else is fighting in the scrum. The smart choice is to go after the backline, but as noted it's not a workable idea for a solo op.
Build isn't relevant to the lack of CC; topping the charts doesn't help you stop the ball carrier waltzing through with a shield. Maybe if you're targeting a particularly undergeared one or something...I mean, you have nothing compared to the other classes who constantly punt off ledges to stop caps, pull backwards, and so on.
The problem I'm running into is that if you aren't fighting morons, you yourself get CC'd to oblivion once you jump one guy and their entire backline turns on you.
I'm 18/0/23, though, so at least I have some options if it's too hot to go in, but still.
I also don't feel particularly relevant in actually capping or stopping a cap in Huttball or getting anything done in Voidstar, but Civil War is amazing. Topping the charts isn't directly relevant to winning; ops simply have no forced movement skills of any kind so there's not much they can do.
If the entire back line is turning on you rather than focusing on the rest of your team then I fail to see how they aren't morons. You shouldn't be attacking alone.
If your build doesn't add to your CC tool belt then I don't know why you would complain about a lack of CC. As a DPS spec topping the charts in kills and damage is very important. If their healers spend the majority of their time respawning or healing themselves then you've put the enemy team at a disadvantage. If you constantly kill the ball carrier or kill those who would prevent your team from scoring then you are contributing to the team. Hidden Strike/Sever Tendon/Debilitate/Flashbang are more than enough CC for me.
Edit: I can usually CC the majority of team by using all of the abilities which can allow my team to put a large amount of distance between the defenders after a door is blown or a bridge is extended in voidstar.
Ops are squishier than most other classes. They're a great focus target.
Solo stealther, everyone else is fighting in the scrum. The smart choice is to go after the backline, but as noted it's not a workable idea for a solo op.
Build isn't relevant to the lack of CC; topping the charts doesn't help you stop the ball carrier waltzing through with a shield. Maybe if you're targeting a particularly undergeared one or something...I mean, you have nothing compared to the other classes who constantly punt off ledges to stop caps, pull backwards, and so on.
Any class not working with its team is going to be gimped because the group is just going to focus fire on them. This is no more true for Operatives than any other class. You can't attack a group by yourself as any class if you have comparable gear.
Build is relevant to CC because it can reduce cooldowns on CC abilities, add CC to abilities, and increase CC duration others.
Shields only last for so long, you can still do enough damage to a target to kill them after the timer is up or it's soaked up the maximum amount of damage, and CC can help you stop a target in its tracks while the shield runs out. Other classes may be better ball carriers in huttball, but you can't expect to do everything.
Taranis on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
The problem I'm running into is that if you aren't fighting morons, you yourself get CC'd to oblivion once you jump one guy and their entire backline turns on you.
I'm 18/0/23, though, so at least I have some options if it's too hot to go in, but still.
I also don't feel particularly relevant in actually capping or stopping a cap in Huttball or getting anything done in Voidstar, but Civil War is amazing. Topping the charts isn't directly relevant to winning; ops simply have no forced movement skills of any kind so there's not much they can do.
If the entire back line is turning on you rather than focusing on the rest of your team then I fail to see how they aren't morons. You shouldn't be attacking alone.
If your build doesn't add to your CC tool belt then I don't know why you would complain about a lack of CC. As a DPS spec topping the charts in kills and damage is very important. If their healers spend the majority of their time respawning or healing themselves then you've put the enemy team at a disadvantage. If you constantly kill the ball carrier or kill those who would prevent your team from scoring then you are contributing to the team. Hidden Strike/Sever Tendon/Debilitate/Flashbang are more than enough CC for me.
Edit: I can usually CC the majority of team by using all of the abilities which can allow my team to put a large amount of distance between the defenders after a door is blown or a bridge is extended in voidstar.
Ops are squishier than most other classes. They're a great focus target.
Solo stealther, everyone else is fighting in the scrum. The smart choice is to go after the backline, but as noted it's not a workable idea for a solo op.
Build isn't relevant to the lack of CC; topping the charts doesn't help you stop the ball carrier waltzing through with a shield. Maybe if you're targeting a particularly undergeared one or something...I mean, you have nothing compared to the other classes who constantly punt off ledges to stop caps, pull backwards, and so on.
Any class not working with its team is going to be gimped because the group is just going to focus fire on them. This is no more true for Operatives than any other class. You can't attack a group by yourself as any class if you have comparable gear.
Build is relevant to CC because it can reduce cooldowns on CC abilities, add CC to abilities, and increase CC duration others.
Shields only last for so long, you can still do enough damage to a target to kill them after the timer is up or it's soaked up the maximum amount of damage, and CC can help you stop a target in its tracks while the shield runs out. Other classes may be better ball carriers in huttball, but you can't expect to do everything.
I'm not talking about running the ball, I'm talking about stopping a ball carrier with a healer. If you haven't killed them by the time you fill up the resolve bar (Flashbang + Debil), ops can't stop them. Other classes can just redirect them before the bar is full.
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NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Yeah, that there is a thing I HATE HATE HATE.
When the ball carrier is getting near the goal line, and your team goes and fills his resolve bar with stuns so you can't punt him into the pit, so he just walks the 10 meters over to the goal line.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
I'm not talking about running the ball, I'm talking about stopping a ball carrier with a healer. If you haven't killed them by the time you fill up the resolve bar (Flashbang + Debil), ops can't stop them. Other classes can just redirect them before the bar is full.
Well if you're complaining that you don't have the DPS to kill a ball carrier while specced for healing then I don't know what to say.
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NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Hahah, oh wow, ventured to the official forums to confirm that it was 1.1.2 that was making the PvP bag system less retarded, and christ the thread talking about it was full of butthurt until someone from bioware got shit clarified as to exactly HOW it was being made less retarded.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Hahah, oh wow, ventured to the official forums to confirm that it was 1.1.2 that was making the PvP bag system less retarded, and christ the thread talking about it was full of butthurt until someone from bioware got shit clarified as to exactly HOW it was being made less retarded.
I can't wait for the change. I just hit 50 on a character, and had 1000 merc tokens and 1000 warzone commendations saved up. I also ran and did the Ilum daily. I had previously bought a bag (they're unique so I could only have one.) Out of those 7 bags? I got only commendations.
Fuck. That.
Especially considering my last streak was 11 bags without a drop. That shit is just retarded.
How are people supposed to know if the other team is undergeared? Are they supposed to come to an agreement before the match on how much expertise everyone is allowed to use?
Edit: If you consider that to be unethical then you should also feel that premades that are undergeared are also comprised of dicks. The problem is with the gear system and the lack of Valor rank brackets, not the people in the premades.
Exactly... there is nothing to split up geared and ungeared players. As long as the developers provide an uneven playfield, the game is just who can be a bigger dick. Taking advantage of farming in huttball is due to the system being designed poorly, just like the gear differences people have... the players can't magically make sure they are paired against an equally geared team.
I think you read what I put without reading the whole post. It was to compare farming to other unfair things that happen in MMO PVP.
Yeah, I would never farm a team in huttball for medals. Getting 20 or 30 more WZ comms in one match is not worth wasting other people's time and being an ass. It's just not the kind of person I am.
People don't give a shit about the extra comms, its the extra valor rank they are trying to grind from farming.
Was it Killjoy? He called me a pussy when I said 'no' to his demand that we farm a while back, PUG vs PUG, but he sounded even less eloquent than your new PVP coach.
But seriously, farming is dickish.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was Killjoy... I did premade with him a few weeks ago until I realized he just wanted me to wear my PVE tank gear and hold the huttball in the middle. I personally don't farm because I find PVP to be boring enough in the first place, but I also think if thats what people want to do them the game isn't stopping them. I think there should be some sorta valor bonus for speedy wins in huttball, which might stop people wasting others time.
How are people supposed to know if the other team is undergeared? Are they supposed to come to an agreement before the match on how much expertise everyone is allowed to use?
Edit: If you consider that to be unethical then you should also feel that premades that are undergeared are also comprised of dicks. The problem is with the gear system and the lack of Valor rank brackets, not the people in the premades.
Exactly... there is nothing to split up geared and ungeared players. As long as the developers provide an uneven playfield, the game is just who can be a bigger dick. Taking advantage of farming in huttball is due to the system being designed poorly, just like the gear differences people have... the players can't magically make sure they are paired against an equally geared team.
I think you read what I put without reading the whole post. It was to compare farming to other unfair things that happen in MMO PVP.
Ah yeah that makes more sense then. Sorry about that.
Got 5 points in a huttball match and was told not to score anymore. I said no, don't be a dick and scored, and got a whisper after. "There is a difference between being a dick and making use of the time you spend in a queue to get the most commendations possible... so YOU are dumb, SUPER SUPER DUMB."
I disagree. I feel like juggling the ball around for 8 minutes to farm the enemy team, completely wasting their time, is an incredibly rude and pointless thing to do. Anyone feel differently? It blows my mind people think that this isn't dickish.
There is another problem going on here though, if thats the most efficient way to gain valor the quickest... then people are gonna do it. If the developers implemented some methods to make finishing quicker also beneficial, then it might not happen as much.
The big problem though, is how long the queues can be sometimes so making the most of every WZ is just something people are going to do. If there was cross server WZ's to make queues much faster, then you would see this farming crap go away quick.
Having to grind in PVP is stupid in the first place though... but that grind keeps people around longer, so there's that.
Similar thing used to happen in Champions Online Zombie Apocalypse PvP matches. ZA acquired the reputation as the "PvE friendly" PvP map and was always filled with PvE zombie farmers who just wanted exp, but hated actually fighting players. Their goal was to have a 20 minute long shut-out in which the single starting zombie would be raped until he stopped respawning, and then the heroes would spend the next 15 minutes grinding PvE zombies for max exp.
Naturally, PvPers found this incredibly boring, and we would get ourselves killed by the zombies early on so we could switch to the other side and go after players. You can probably imagine the shrieks of PvE rage that ensued.
Similar thing used to happen in Champions Online Zombie Apocalypse PvP matches. ZA acquired the reputation as the "PvE friendly" PvP map and was always filled with PvE zombie farmers who just wanted exp, but hated actually fighting players. Their goal was to have a 20 minute long shut-out in which the single starting zombie would be raped until he stopped respawning, and then the heroes would spend the next 15 minutes grinding PvE zombies for max exp.
Naturally, PvPers found this incredibly boring, and we would get ourselves killed by the zombies early on so we could switch to the other side and go after players. You can probably imagine the shrieks of PvE rage that ensued.
I played CO a lot... and a proper Zombie round was always really fun. The PVE grinding people tried to do was just stupid. When people really PVPed in that mode it was a blast.
Similar thing used to happen in Champions Online Zombie Apocalypse PvP matches. ZA acquired the reputation as the "PvE friendly" PvP map and was always filled with PvE zombie farmers who just wanted exp, but hated actually fighting players. Their goal was to have a 20 minute long shut-out in which the single starting zombie would be raped until he stopped respawning, and then the heroes would spend the next 15 minutes grinding PvE zombies for max exp.
Naturally, PvPers found this incredibly boring, and we would get ourselves killed by the zombies early on so we could switch to the other side and go after players. You can probably imagine the shrieks of PvE rage that ensued.
I played CO a lot... and a proper Zombie round was always really fun. The PVE grinding people tried to do was just stupid. When people really PVPed in that mode it was a blast.
The PvE zombies were buffed several patches back, and now generally speaking the heroes will be killed off via attrition prior to the 20 minute mark in T-1/2 games even with no interference from a player-zombie. And in T-3/4 the zombies now pose enough of a threat that a thoughtful player zombie has a very strong chance of turning one or more players before the 5 minute mark.
Basically, the average game time for ZA dropped to less than 5 minutes, and it's a strong improvement.
How are people supposed to know if the other team is undergeared? Are they supposed to come to an agreement before the match on how much expertise everyone is allowed to use?
Edit: If you consider that to be unethical then you should also feel that premades that are undergeared are also comprised of dicks. The problem is with the gear system and the lack of Valor rank brackets, not the people in the premades.
Exactly... there is nothing to split up geared and ungeared players. As long as the developers provide an uneven playfield, the game is just who can be a bigger dick. Taking advantage of farming in huttball is due to the system being designed poorly, just like the gear differences people have... the players can't magically make sure they are paired against an equally geared team.
You keep confusing gear with behavior. Please stop, it's painful to read.
Being better geared means you will (more likely) win. There's nothing wrong with this.
What is wrong is to, rather then winning the game, force the opposition to stay in the game and farm them in direct opposition to how the game is supposed to work.
Sure, the system encourages this behavior, but that doesn't mean it's not being a dick.
If the questing system encouraged you to ninja items and nodes and such from other players, the system would be screwed up but you would still be a fucking dickhole for doing so. This does no suddenly change when it shifts to PvP.
How are people supposed to know if the other team is undergeared? Are they supposed to come to an agreement before the match on how much expertise everyone is allowed to use?
Edit: If you consider that to be unethical then you should also feel that premades that are undergeared are also comprised of dicks. The problem is with the gear system and the lack of Valor rank brackets, not the people in the premades.
Exactly... there is nothing to split up geared and ungeared players. As long as the developers provide an uneven playfield, the game is just who can be a bigger dick. Taking advantage of farming in huttball is due to the system being designed poorly, just like the gear differences people have... the players can't magically make sure they are paired against an equally geared team.
You keep confusing gear with behavior. Please stop, it's painful to read.
Being better geared means you will (more likely) win. There's nothing wrong with this.
What is wrong is to, rather then winning the game, force the opposition to stay in the game and farm them in direct opposition to how the game is supposed to work.
Sure, the system encourages this behavior, but that doesn't mean it's not being a dick.
If the questing system encouraged you to ninja items and nodes and such from other players, the system would be screwed up but you would still be a fucking dickhole for doing so. This does no suddenly change when it shifts to PvP.
Pretty much this. Don't blame mechanics. Blame Internet fuckwads.
Not to defend the farmers, cause I think it's a dick move myself even though I do it when we score 5 points before I am at 4 medals (I finish every game with 7-11 medals, lol gogo taunt!).
But if you find yourself in a helpless situation where the other team is farming you, you are free to leave the warzone with no penalty. Nothing is forcing you to drop into the pit and get slaughtered over and over.
Not to defend the farmers, cause I think it's a dick move myself even though I do it when we score 5 points before I am at 4 medals (I finish every game with 7-11 medals, lol gogo taunt!).
But if you find yourself in a helpless situation where the other team is farming you, you are free to leave the warzone with no penalty. Nothing is forcing you to drop into the pit and get slaughtered over and over.
Do you still get rewards for the warzone if you do that?
You keep confusing gear with behavior. Please stop, it's painful to read.
Being better geared means you will (more likely) win. There's nothing wrong with this.
What is wrong is to, rather then winning the game, force the opposition to stay in the game and farm them in direct opposition to how the game is supposed to work.
Sure, the system encourages this behavior, but that doesn't mean it's not being a dick.
If the questing system encouraged you to ninja items and nodes and such from other players, the system would be screwed up but you would still be a fucking dickhole for doing so. This does no suddenly change when it shifts to PvP.
Stop confusing what I said with defending people being dicks, its painful to read.
Better gear is an advantage and people premade with better geared players because they want to steamroll the other team. There is no confusion here, this has happened in all games with instanced PVP when the game itself makes it possible. They made the choice to try and have a huge advantage over other people, so thats being a dick. If the game had a better way to gear up new people or sort geared ones then the problem wouldn't be there.
Internet assholes are in every game, hiding in their anonymous paradise. But its still game mechanics that can be tweaked to prevent this. The medal system gives far to much reward over actually winning quick, so the dickheads key in on this. I'm not stupid, I realize their choice is what makes them a dick, but if the devs changes a couple numbers it might change things real quick.
Guys, there's a difference between an overgreared premade steamrolling PuG after Pug and people who deliberately draw a game out to farm a much weaker team for additional points. Being "that guy" who whispers people and bitches them out for trying to end a game is harrassement, and I would report anyone who did the same thing to me.
Just because the game mechanics allow you to do something, doesn't make it right.
There's a reason why the number one rule for any PA association is "Don't be a dick." We as gamers clearly know what that means.
Guys, there's a difference between an overgreared premade steamrolling PuG after Pug and people who deliberately draw a game out to farm a much weaker team for additional points. Being "that guy" who whispers people and bitches them out for trying to end a game is harrassement, and I would report anyone who did the same thing to me.
Just because the game mechanics allow you to do something, doesn't make it right.
There's a reason why the number one rule for any PA association is "Don't be a dick." We as gamers clearly know what that means.
Right, but in either case the game could prevent those things from happening. (according to upcoming changes, people initial gear into PVP might be better, so they are working towards fixing that)
No one is defending the choice that people make to "be a dick" and farm in huttball. Personally that just seems like a waste of time and would be just as boring as steamrolling in a premade.
And in the case of premades steamrolling... those are usually the same type of groups doing the farming.
I guess the lack of me saying "OMG I HATE DICKS", means I support them? I dunno... people don't comprehend unless you take an extreme opinion it seems.
grouch993Both a man and a numberRegistered Userregular
From GabeAmatangelo, "That being said, the current interim 'gearing up' system will change significantly when we introduce Ranked Warzones (aiming for Game Update 1.2)."
If we have trouble filling level 50 warzones now, wonder what this will do to them?
From GabeAmatangelo, "That being said, the current interim 'gearing up' system will change significantly when we introduce Ranked Warzones (aiming for Game Update 1.2)."
If we have trouble filling level 50 warzones now, wonder what this will do to them?
Cross server queues are gonna have to happen at one point, or they are just going to kill off the server only queues soon.
Badwrong, all I'm saying is it shouldn't take a mechanical fix in the game to make people not be dicks to other players.
Players should, in general, accept the prinicple of "don't be a dick" and...well, not be a dick. When someone is a dick in a game, they're being a dick. It's like when someone says, "stop touching me" and you're waving your hand an inch from their face saying, "i'm not touch you, I'm not touching you". You're not touching them. You're being a dick.
Farming is a dick move. It's borderline griefing. Your intentionally acting in a way that makes the game not fun for another player, so you can enjoy the game more. There's some of us, and we're a dying breed, that still believes that there's a shared responsibility in the gaming community to make sure everyone is having fun, or at least not being the victim of someone else's abuse.
At some point, you have to realize that there's another human being behind that avatar you see on the screen.
Ultimately, everyone can have their own opinion. I would just ask the people who are members of this community to exemplify the proud PA tradition of not being a dick by not farming clearly weaker opponents in ToR WZs.
Again with this talk like the opposing team are people.
My name is ______ _________ and I say kill em all!
I'll farm you when my team wins, and you can farm me when your team wins. It's fair! I always do my part by charging headlong into the zerg over and over and over when its my turn. My goal in that event is always to have the most deaths in the match.
Badwrong, all I'm saying is it shouldn't take a mechanical fix in the game to make people not be dicks to other players.
Players should, in general, accept the prinicple of "don't be a dick" and...well, not be a dick. When someone is a dick in a game, they're being a dick. It's like when someone says, "stop touching me" and you're waving your hand an inch from their face saying, "i'm not touch you, I'm not touching you". You're not touching them. You're being a dick.
Farming is a dick move. It's borderline griefing. Your intentionally acting in a way that makes the game not fun for another player, so you can enjoy the game more. There's some of us, and we're a dying breed, that still believes that there's a shared responsibility in the gaming community to make sure everyone is having fun, or at least not being the victim of someone else's abuse.
At some point, you have to realize that there's another human being behind that avatar you see on the screen.
Ultimately, everyone can have their own opinion. I would just ask the people who are members of this community to exemplify the proud PA tradition of not being a dick by not farming clearly weaker opponents in ToR WZs.
That's all.
If it makes you less confused:
I think farming is a dick move and people shouldn't do it in huttball. I don't do it myself.
Now, for the rest of the SWTOR players who don't mind being a dick, it would be smart if they changes some mechanics to prevent this.
Don't worry, I played MMOs when there was all sorts of unspoken manners. EQ for example, I remember certain camped spots where people would respect the person camping a spot and not try to pull the mob when it spawned. FFXI... that was so extreme with unspoken rules that people even got mad when someone used /shout (or yell, whichever it was).
You seem to be confusing me with supporting these "dickhead" players, just because I'm not all up in arms about it? I dunno.
It would be nice if all of PA were like what you are saying... you probably haven't played BF3 on the PA server. Many times an admin has to tell someone to stop being a goose... exploiting unhittable mortar spots for example.
You aren't telling me anything I don't know here... I wouldn't say that type of gamer is a dying breed, but its enough of a minority that the actual game mechanics should be tweaked to prevent some of the asshattery that happens.
Posts
No. Why?
I'm not even in full champion gear yet and I'm only valor ranked 47.
The only appreciable advantage I may have over the average TOR PVPer is a Razer Naga (yes it does make that much of a difference given how fast I can use contextually appropriate abilities compared to enemies ). I really don't feel gimped at all, and even the recent nerfs feel somewhat fair.
If you're on Iron Citadel then let me know and we can queue together once you're level 50, but trust me Operative isn't getting the shaft in this game.
The enemy has it coming. The only good [Applicable Team Name] is a dead [Applicable Team Name]
One thing in pvp that makes me giggle is seeing people try to backpedal away from my operative. Often they're waddling along and I'm still strafing behind them shanking away.
I'm 18/0/23, though, so at least I have some options if it's too hot to go in, but still.
I also don't feel particularly relevant in actually capping or stopping a cap in Huttball or getting anything done in Voidstar, but Civil War is amazing. Topping the charts isn't directly relevant to winning; ops simply have no forced movement skills of any kind so there's not much they can do.
Farming is a dick move. But some people don't have issues being a dick to the opposing faction.
Personally, I prefer to just end the blow out and move on to the next map.
There is another problem going on here though, if thats the most efficient way to gain valor the quickest... then people are gonna do it. If the developers implemented some methods to make finishing quicker also beneficial, then it might not happen as much.
The big problem though, is how long the queues can be sometimes so making the most of every WZ is just something people are going to do. If there was cross server WZ's to make queues much faster, then you would see this farming crap go away quick.
Having to grind in PVP is stupid in the first place though... but that grind keeps people around longer, so there's that.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But it's a product of any warzone/battleground/etc where the game doesn't automatically chug towards the end regardless of player input.
It might be dick... but so is having a premade that totally outgears the other team. So is heavily using FOTM classes.
It don't see why it should be the players responsibility to setup an "even" match... so farming a team that can't do anything is going to happen.
The issue is that the victory rewards aren't better than the farming rewards.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No, it's way more dickish then that.
A premade that totally outgears you will stomp you. And then they will win and it will be over.
Farming another team is when you deliberately don't win in order to keep stomping over the same people over and over again. They are no longer trying to win the game (which is the point of the warzone), they are just trying to kill you over and over again.
It's like if you were playing hockey and the other team sucked so bad you just took the puck and skated in circles without ever trying to score, just to run out the clock. Or I guess basketball if the other team just passed it back and forth till the shot-clock ran out. And then took the ball off the other team and did that again and again and again till the game was over. Or some other similar sports analogy.
Any of that is considered a complete dick move.
That it is the most efficient way to farm rewards is certainly the base issue. But that doesn't excuse people being dicks.
Was it Killjoy? He called me a pussy when I said 'no' to his demand that we farm a while back, PUG vs PUG, but he sounded even less eloquent than your new PVP coach.
But seriously, farming is dickish.
You are SUPER SUPER DUMB because you should be playing for the most efficient honor gain. DUH.
If the entire back line is turning on you rather than focusing on the rest of your team then I fail to see how they aren't morons. You shouldn't be attacking alone.
If your build doesn't add to your CC tool belt then I don't know why you would complain about a lack of CC. As a DPS spec topping the charts in kills and damage is very important. If their healers spend the majority of their time respawning or healing themselves then you've put the enemy team at a disadvantage. If you constantly kill the ball carrier or kill those who would prevent your team from scoring then you are contributing to the team. Hidden Strike/Sever Tendon/Debilitate/Flashbang are more than enough CC for me.
Edit: I can usually CC the majority of team by using all of the abilities which can allow my team to put a large amount of distance between the defenders after a door is blown or a bridge is extended in voidstar.
There's nothing wrong with this.
How are people supposed to know if the other team is undergeared? Are they supposed to come to an agreement before the match on how much expertise everyone is allowed to use?
Edit: If you consider that to be unethical then you should also feel that premades that are undergeared are also comprised of dicks. The problem is with the gear system and the lack of Valor rank brackets, not the people in the premades.
Solo stealther, everyone else is fighting in the scrum. The smart choice is to go after the backline, but as noted it's not a workable idea for a solo op.
Build isn't relevant to the lack of CC; topping the charts doesn't help you stop the ball carrier waltzing through with a shield. Maybe if you're targeting a particularly undergeared one or something...I mean, you have nothing compared to the other classes who constantly punt off ledges to stop caps, pull backwards, and so on.
Any class not working with its team is going to be gimped because the group is just going to focus fire on them. This is no more true for Operatives than any other class. You can't attack a group by yourself as any class if you have comparable gear.
Build is relevant to CC because it can reduce cooldowns on CC abilities, add CC to abilities, and increase CC duration others.
Shields only last for so long, you can still do enough damage to a target to kill them after the timer is up or it's soaked up the maximum amount of damage, and CC can help you stop a target in its tracks while the shield runs out. Other classes may be better ball carriers in huttball, but you can't expect to do everything.
When the ball carrier is getting near the goal line, and your team goes and fills his resolve bar with stuns so you can't punt him into the pit, so he just walks the 10 meters over to the goal line.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Well if you're complaining that you don't have the DPS to kill a ball carrier while specced for healing then I don't know what to say.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
I can't wait for the change. I just hit 50 on a character, and had 1000 merc tokens and 1000 warzone commendations saved up. I also ran and did the Ilum daily. I had previously bought a bag (they're unique so I could only have one.) Out of those 7 bags? I got only commendations.
Fuck. That.
Especially considering my last streak was 11 bags without a drop. That shit is just retarded.
Exactly... there is nothing to split up geared and ungeared players. As long as the developers provide an uneven playfield, the game is just who can be a bigger dick. Taking advantage of farming in huttball is due to the system being designed poorly, just like the gear differences people have... the players can't magically make sure they are paired against an equally geared team.
I think you read what I put without reading the whole post. It was to compare farming to other unfair things that happen in MMO PVP.
People don't give a shit about the extra comms, its the extra valor rank they are trying to grind from farming.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was Killjoy... I did premade with him a few weeks ago until I realized he just wanted me to wear my PVE tank gear and hold the huttball in the middle. I personally don't farm because I find PVP to be boring enough in the first place, but I also think if thats what people want to do them the game isn't stopping them. I think there should be some sorta valor bonus for speedy wins in huttball, which might stop people wasting others time.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ah yeah that makes more sense then. Sorry about that.
Similar thing used to happen in Champions Online Zombie Apocalypse PvP matches. ZA acquired the reputation as the "PvE friendly" PvP map and was always filled with PvE zombie farmers who just wanted exp, but hated actually fighting players. Their goal was to have a 20 minute long shut-out in which the single starting zombie would be raped until he stopped respawning, and then the heroes would spend the next 15 minutes grinding PvE zombies for max exp.
Naturally, PvPers found this incredibly boring, and we would get ourselves killed by the zombies early on so we could switch to the other side and go after players. You can probably imagine the shrieks of PvE rage that ensued.
I played CO a lot... and a proper Zombie round was always really fun. The PVE grinding people tried to do was just stupid. When people really PVPed in that mode it was a blast.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The PvE zombies were buffed several patches back, and now generally speaking the heroes will be killed off via attrition prior to the 20 minute mark in T-1/2 games even with no interference from a player-zombie. And in T-3/4 the zombies now pose enough of a threat that a thoughtful player zombie has a very strong chance of turning one or more players before the 5 minute mark.
Basically, the average game time for ZA dropped to less than 5 minutes, and it's a strong improvement.
You keep confusing gear with behavior. Please stop, it's painful to read.
Being better geared means you will (more likely) win. There's nothing wrong with this.
What is wrong is to, rather then winning the game, force the opposition to stay in the game and farm them in direct opposition to how the game is supposed to work.
Sure, the system encourages this behavior, but that doesn't mean it's not being a dick.
If the questing system encouraged you to ninja items and nodes and such from other players, the system would be screwed up but you would still be a fucking dickhole for doing so. This does no suddenly change when it shifts to PvP.
Pretty much this. Don't blame mechanics. Blame Internet fuckwads.
But if you find yourself in a helpless situation where the other team is farming you, you are free to leave the warzone with no penalty. Nothing is forcing you to drop into the pit and get slaughtered over and over.
Do you still get rewards for the warzone if you do that?
Stop confusing what I said with defending people being dicks, its painful to read.
Better gear is an advantage and people premade with better geared players because they want to steamroll the other team. There is no confusion here, this has happened in all games with instanced PVP when the game itself makes it possible. They made the choice to try and have a huge advantage over other people, so thats being a dick. If the game had a better way to gear up new people or sort geared ones then the problem wouldn't be there.
Internet assholes are in every game, hiding in their anonymous paradise. But its still game mechanics that can be tweaked to prevent this. The medal system gives far to much reward over actually winning quick, so the dickheads key in on this. I'm not stupid, I realize their choice is what makes them a dick, but if the devs changes a couple numbers it might change things real quick.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Just because the game mechanics allow you to do something, doesn't make it right.
There's a reason why the number one rule for any PA association is "Don't be a dick." We as gamers clearly know what that means.
Right, but in either case the game could prevent those things from happening. (according to upcoming changes, people initial gear into PVP might be better, so they are working towards fixing that)
No one is defending the choice that people make to "be a dick" and farm in huttball. Personally that just seems like a waste of time and would be just as boring as steamrolling in a premade.
And in the case of premades steamrolling... those are usually the same type of groups doing the farming.
I guess the lack of me saying "OMG I HATE DICKS", means I support them? I dunno... people don't comprehend unless you take an extreme opinion it seems.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If we have trouble filling level 50 warzones now, wonder what this will do to them?
Cross server queues are gonna have to happen at one point, or they are just going to kill off the server only queues soon.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Players should, in general, accept the prinicple of "don't be a dick" and...well, not be a dick. When someone is a dick in a game, they're being a dick. It's like when someone says, "stop touching me" and you're waving your hand an inch from their face saying, "i'm not touch you, I'm not touching you". You're not touching them. You're being a dick.
Farming is a dick move. It's borderline griefing. Your intentionally acting in a way that makes the game not fun for another player, so you can enjoy the game more. There's some of us, and we're a dying breed, that still believes that there's a shared responsibility in the gaming community to make sure everyone is having fun, or at least not being the victim of someone else's abuse.
At some point, you have to realize that there's another human being behind that avatar you see on the screen.
Ultimately, everyone can have their own opinion. I would just ask the people who are members of this community to exemplify the proud PA tradition of not being a dick by not farming clearly weaker opponents in ToR WZs.
That's all.
My name is ______ _________ and I say kill em all!
I'll farm you when my team wins, and you can farm me when your team wins. It's fair! I always do my part by charging headlong into the zerg over and over and over when its my turn. My goal in that event is always to have the most deaths in the match.
If it makes you less confused:
I think farming is a dick move and people shouldn't do it in huttball. I don't do it myself.
Now, for the rest of the SWTOR players who don't mind being a dick, it would be smart if they changes some mechanics to prevent this.
Don't worry, I played MMOs when there was all sorts of unspoken manners. EQ for example, I remember certain camped spots where people would respect the person camping a spot and not try to pull the mob when it spawned. FFXI... that was so extreme with unspoken rules that people even got mad when someone used /shout (or yell, whichever it was).
You seem to be confusing me with supporting these "dickhead" players, just because I'm not all up in arms about it? I dunno.
It would be nice if all of PA were like what you are saying... you probably haven't played BF3 on the PA server. Many times an admin has to tell someone to stop being a goose... exploiting unhittable mortar spots for example.
You aren't telling me anything I don't know here... I wouldn't say that type of gamer is a dying breed, but its enough of a minority that the actual game mechanics should be tweaked to prevent some of the asshattery that happens.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯