But Mercenaries have an AoE knockback. That's the best 'get the fuck off of me' ability that a class can have.
Completely anecdotal, but all of the mercenaries/commandos I've seen at higher levels are completely devastating. Just earlier tonight, two level 30ish Marauders (myself being one of them) beat on a lvl 50 commando for over a full minute (I know, because force choke came back off cooldown) and he managed to heal to full several times in that period. This was after multiple sets of chain heal interrupt > stun > incapacitate between the two of us. We would get him down to a sliver of health, then run out of interrupts and he would heal back up in seconds.
They seem in a much better place than the medium armor healers, as they have more defensive options. Also, I can't overstate how important knockback abilities are. Either knockbacks, or grabs/leaps are so crucial to winning huttball it isn't even funny.
The thing is that a Sage/Sorceror has everything that the Commando/Mercenary has and more. Things they share:
I'm not saying that you can't do good as a Commando/Mercernary, but that you could do everything better as a Sage/Sorc.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Fellow PvPers, thank you for taking on the challenge of player vs player combat in The Old Republic!
In the first week after launch there were over a million Warzone matches played, with nearly half of all players participating in Warzones. Bad news for Republic players, though - the Empire currently leads overall, having won 53% of all Alderaan Civil War and Voidstar matches (across all servers). Huttball has been played the most, accounting for 39% of all matches – and yes, we’ll be adding a new same faction vs. same faction enabled Warzone in the future.
We are all really excited at the tremendous volume of participation we’ve seen in PvP thus far. Your interest and demand dictates what we’ll be delivering in the near future. I wanted to give you some insight into where we are with PvP development and where we are going.
First and foremost here is what we are addressing as a top priority:
Level 50 Bracket Warzones: Level 50 players will have a bracket of their own, playing in separate Warzone matches to lower level players. This is something we have wanted to do for some time and now that there is an increasing number of level 50 players we will be implementing the feature in January.
Open World PvP on Ilum: The planet of Ilum currently allows for open world PvP even on a PvE server, but the mechanics and incentives of the planet are not in as intended yet. We’re working on longer term goals for the planet and for other PvP areas, but expect to see some interim adjustments in January - such as more respawn points to focus conflicts, restricting Companion Characters from the area, and revisions to rewards. Ilum will also become a major source of Valor. Valor buffs will increase and decrease based on the objectives your faction owns. These buffs increase the amount of Valor you receive per player kill. However they do not give anything in and of themselves, so players will still need to defeat other players for significant Valor rewards. Additionally, daily and weekly missions will require player kills to complete. Player kills for quests and Valor credit will have diminishing returns per player killed. So, the more players that are fighting other players, the better it is for everyone.
Combat Gameplay: You’ll see several optimizations come online in January, and we are going to continue to tune this as time goes on.
We also have other exciting features coming in the near future including Ranked Warzone Matches, PvP Stat Tracking, Open World PvP Loot Drops, more Warzone medals for different objectives, Guard Optimizations and Target Optimizations.
Additionally we’re looking at ways to enable team vs. team, more level brackets and the ability to choose which Warzone you want to play in.
This is not a complete list of everything we’re working on that’s PvP related, but we have to keep some surprises for later! Thanks again for all your feedback and please keep it coming. We read as much as we can then cross reference with metrics to take action on features and tuning the game to ensure an enjoyable and competitive PvP community.
Gabe Amatangelo
Principal Lead PvP, Operations & Flashpoints Designer
But Mercenaries have an AoE knockback. That's the best 'get the fuck off of me' ability that a class can have.
Completely anecdotal, but all of the mercenaries/commandos I've seen at higher levels are completely devastating. Just earlier tonight, two level 30ish Marauders (myself being one of them) beat on a lvl 50 commando for over a full minute (I know, because force choke came back off cooldown) and he managed to heal to full several times in that period. This was after multiple sets of chain heal interrupt > stun > incapacitate between the two of us. We would get him down to a sliver of health, then run out of interrupts and he would heal back up in seconds.
They seem in a much better place than the medium armor healers, as they have more defensive options. Also, I can't overstate how important knockback abilities are. Either knockbacks, or grabs/leaps are so crucial to winning huttball it isn't even funny.
The thing is that a Sage/Sorceror has everything that the Commando/Mercenary has and more. Things they share:
I'm not saying that you can't do good as a Commando/Mercernary, but that you could do everything better as a Sage/Sorc.
Commandos/Mercs also have mobile healing. Their Knockback is also superior, as it slows for quite a bit afterward. Speaking as a dude who has played hundreds of warzone matches as melee DPS (operative and marauder) Mercenaries/Commandos are much harder targets than Sorcerers/Sages. Their armor is tougher, their escape options are nastier, and they tend to do damage to me much faster.
I've also been in numerous warzones where I've seen mercenaries as low as level 11 or 14 top the scoreboard with almost 300,000 damage and some 75,000 healing. I've never seen low level sorcerers be even nearly as effective.
It's still too early to be talking about overall balance seeing as we don't even have a 50 only bracket to properly compare things, but just based on my anecdotal evidence from a ton of warzones played, Mercenaries definitely have a place, and they are at least on par with sages/sorcs.
My buddy plays a mercenary and is typically the highest damage dealt and kills on our team in PvP. It's rather frustrating because he gets so much damned AoE damage that I can't keep up with my Sniper. I tend to be a bit better at taking down a lone target but he is able to burn down a large part of their team which really messes with the enemy healing.
On the plus side it's kind of nice because the healers are then forced to try and heal others and I can pick them off.
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My buddy plays a mercenary and is typically the highest damage dealt and kills on our team in PvP. It's rather frustrating because he gets so much damned AoE damage that I can't keep up with my Sniper. I tend to be a bit better at taking down a lone target but he is able to burn down a large part of their team which really messes with the enemy healing.
On the plus side it's kind of nice because the healers are then forced to try and heal others and I can pick them off.
Yea, mercs usually beat me in damage but I usually beat them with kills and I'm better equipped to kill an individual target at a critical point.
Commandos/Mercs also have mobile healing. Their Knockback is also superior, as it slows for quite a bit afterward. Speaking as a dude who has played hundreds of warzone matches as melee DPS (operative and marauder) Mercenaries/Commandos are much harder targets than Sorcerers/Sages. Their armor is tougher, their escape options are nastier, and they tend to do damage to me much faster.
I've also been in numerous warzones where I've seen mercenaries as low as level 11 or 14 top the scoreboard with almost 300,000 damage and some 75,000 healing. I've never seen low level sorcerers be even nearly as effective.
It's still too early to be talking about overall balance seeing as we don't even have a 50 only bracket to properly compare things, but just based on my anecdotal evidence from a ton of warzones played, Mercenaries definitely have a place, and they are at least on par with sages/sorcs.
I was trying not to say things off of anecdotal evidence, I was just stating facts. But lets get anecdotal.
Their escape options are extremely limited - the knockback is their single untalented escape (other than the stun which has a minute cooldown and can be trinketed). Once you've over come that you can shut them down easily by interrupting their main nuke (Power Shot/Tracer Missile) or main heal, at which point their damage or healing is negligible. Its also extremely easy to abuse LoS to make them do little to no damage to you, since most of their damage is from spamming a 1.5s cast. They don't have a snare (other than their melee range knockback on a 30/20 second cd) to keep someone from just popping continuously around a corner. This point comes from personal experience dueling Sages/Sorcerers, who do have a ranged snare to keep someone from doing that to them.
Sure, if a Merc is allowed to free cast all day long, they'll rack up huge numbers, any class can. Hell I can top damage meters as tank spec'd Vanguard. In general, Trooper/Bounty Hunter damage is heavily padded by Death From Above/Mortar Volley and other AoE damage.
I have a merc at 50 and played a decent amount of pvp. I know from experience that Sorcerers outclass me in every way, especially in Huttball where mobility reigns supreme.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Sages/Sorcs in huttball aren't very mobile. They get a small sprint, that's it. The lifegrip helps them make OTHERS mobile, but they themselves are really easy to kill before their resolve bar even fills.
Sages/Sorcs in huttball aren't very mobile. They get a small sprint, that's it. The lifegrip helps them make OTHERS mobile, but they themselves are really easy to kill before their resolve bar even fills.
I know this, as I am a sage, and ow.
This is truth.
If one guy comes at me as a sorc, I laugh, DOT him up, stun him and kill him. If 2 guys come at me, I'm dead if they can jump at me twice. I normally try to go out in a blaze of glory, but yeah, mobility is not the strong suit.
Sages/Sorcs in huttball aren't very mobile. They get a small sprint, that's it. The lifegrip helps them make OTHERS mobile, but they themselves are really easy to kill before their resolve bar even fills.
I know this, as I am a sage, and ow.
Force Sprint and Lifegrip is infinitely more potent than what Commandos/Mercenaries get, which is nothing.
If one guy comes at me as a sorc, I laugh, DOT him up, stun him and kill him. If 2 guys come at me, I'm dead if they can jump at me twice. I normally try to go out in a blaze of glory, but yeah, mobility is not the strong suit.
Same as a Commando/Mercenary, except they don't even have the option of the dash.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
As a healing specced operative I'm at a complete loss in PVP. I've seen some players pull it off and top the healing for our team, but I have no idea what they were doing.
I'm thinking about respeccing, because PVP is my main focus.
Fun, definition of; Knocking people into a burning pad in Huttball and stunning them there.
I giggle like a little girl everytime I succed at that. Who needs the ball, burninating is where the hilarity is at.
Also, I'm glad "Target Optimizations" is on their to-do list, because next to the UI in general, that's rapidly become my most major issue with this game (Targetting via healthbars, for the love of the Emperor)
I'm especially fond of teams in Huttball that recognize a steamroll, and instead of finishing the game (it ends when they get to 7, right?) they'll hold the ball and farm kills/medals
I really really wish we could queue for specific warzones. I am tired of playing huttball with bumbling morons.
Queue with a group of at least three. Pass for wins. That's what I do. Our group has gotten fairly good at it so far. We send out Sorcerer in first with his dash to get the ball while the rest of us circle around to be available for a pass. Then we run it in on both sides on the top catwalks and pass it if we're in danger. We almost always score in the first minute which demoralizes the enemy team into making more mistakes giving us the win.
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Where did they hide the L50 blue PVP gear they moved out of Dromund Kaas?
On Coruscant there's a dude by your trainer that has it.
Awesome, how do I get to Coruscant as a Sith?
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
So wait, did they completely take out the blue lvl 50 stuff? That's a shame, because some of those pieces looked pretty cool and were a nice introduction set for level 50. I'm not sure I understand why they were removed.
Ran into my first major asshole on PvP tonight. Playing Alderaan as the match starts I run off to the left in front of everyone else and start capping the point, i notice that 5 other guys are with me. before the point is even entirely capped one guy starts saying "great we've lost because you all came here instead of just one or two and everyone else to the middle". This guy then runs off to a corner and stays there the entire match instead of doing anything and taking a guild buddy with him.
So not surprisingly my team gets curb stomped as this guy mocks us and ignores all attempts to point out that he followed most of us to the left point, or even that you can stage a come back and win the match. I know you can win even if the other team gets all 3 points right away as ive been in a match where we managed to comeback from 3 bases down..
Its not too bad because you still get rewards even for losing but it is annoying as hell when some asshole and his buddy give up at put you at a 2 man disadvantage before 30 seconds have passed. There is nothing you can do to stop it! *rant over*
alright, pvp is such a cluster fuck right now. it wasn't noticeable a week ago, but now more and more people are hitting 50 and getting crazy expertise and it's making this "all levels in the same group" pvp really stupid. getting completely torn apart my smugglers and troopers with god knows how much expertise is getting tedious. being a healer means nothing if you're not 50 as I just get ripped to shreds in the duration of a cast. pvp during prime time is completely undoable for anyone not 50, atleast on my server.
Then there's the whole getting kicked out of a bg right as it ends for god knows fucking why and not getting any experience or points or anything for 15 minutes of getting raped through the pants AND getting thrown back to the imperial fleet regardless of what planet I was on. So not only am I fucked out of all pvp winning or loss exp but I also have to waste time traveling back to the planet I was on. Absolutely abysmal.
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"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
That said, PvP in SWTOR blows, because no brackets mean that random level 15 duder gets crushed by a geared 50 over and over and over
Dunno if anyone still carries this opinion, but I regularly average 25 kills, 5-10 killing blows, 2 solo kills, 4-6 deaths, and a load of XP and creds each match with level 10-15 toons (Gunslinger and Juggernaught).
I certainly don't do as well as the max level guys in the battleground, but being low level doesn't make you useless or a punching bag and I'm certainly not at the bottom of the match.
That said, PvP in SWTOR blows, because no brackets mean that random level 15 duder gets crushed by a geared 50 over and over and over
Dunno if anyone still carries this opinion, but I regularly average 25 kills, 5-10 killing blows, 2 solo kills, 4-6 deaths, and a load of XP and creds each match with level 10-15 toons (Gunslinger and Juggernaught).
I certainly don't do as well as the max level guys in the battleground, but being low level doesn't make you useless or a punching bag and I'm certainly not at the bottom of the match.
I agree with you, I don't feel like I'm worthless in PvP, even in my lowbie guys. My w/l ratio is about even and I almost always feel useful. The only time the matches really suck is if you get a team that doesn't know what they are doing and you have a premade on the other side playing huttball and they are either passing really well or just steamrolling with a tank/healer ball. That sucks. But honestly I only run in to a few matches per day that are that one sided, and usually I'm on the winning side of some of them so I don't mind.
When they split of the 50 tier that will pretty much take care of that problem....I just hope there are enough non 50's to keep PvP active at all hours...
As a 50 decked in PvP epics (255 expertise at the moment) let me tell you, I crush anyone lower than 50. I can easily take 2 people alone as a balance spec'd Sage. Hell I've been stomping fresh 50s as well.
If you're playing against a new 50, or a dumb 50, you have a fighting chance. If you're 11 and they have as much gear as I do? If they are anywhere near competent you're getting your head stomped in.
I have even more expertise and as an Immortal spec Juggernaut with a single healer to back me up we regularly take on groups of 5-6 sub 50's. It's just simply too much of an advantage. Brackets are going to be a good thing.
Before they started getting expertise gear, 50s could be defeated by a sub 50 who played better than them. In PvP gear, it's not even close. My buddy(Sage healer) has about 4k more health in his 50 pvp gear than I have on my tank spec Guardian(level 47), and I'm decked out in level 44+ modded orange gear for the most part. The level 50 purple pvp gear makes ten worlds of difference in how effective you are. It's a very good thing 50s are getting their own bracket. It's definitely needed.
My plan is to farm up some commendations in my last few levels prior to 50, so I can get some of this tasty gear when I enter WZ at 50. I figure that'll at least help cushion the 1) bite curb 2) await incoming boot feeling a bit when I start PvPing with geared 50's.
So after hitting 50 and finishing up the last few missions of my story, I promptly went into Ilum to see what that place was all about. All I had heard about it beforehand was through BW previews, mostly explaining it as an endgame/PVP planet. Unless I missed things somehow, it appears that there's about 4 PVE based dailies and 1 war effort PVP daily/weekly that you can do. I wasn't naive enough to think there wouldn't be an endgame daily grind in this game, so it's not that much of a let down. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something about the planet.
Also, it appeared that on Shadowlands, there was pretty much an unspoken truce between the two factions. I was able to finish the weekly without any resistance. I was even passed by a group of reds who didn't even stop to scare me. I'm not complaining, I just find it funny that people would rather just get the grind over with than mess with it. Granted, there are so few 50's, the place is going to be a ghost town for awhile, so that has a large reason to do with it, I'm sure.
I'm disappointed in the Ilum "end-game experience" so far. And I actually had one Imperial attack me there. I was being cheered on by two other Imperials who were more concerned with me surviving to help them finish their Daily then their "friend" killing me.
Before they started getting expertise gear, 50s could be defeated by a sub 50 who played better than them. In PvP gear, it's not even close. My buddy(Sage healer) has about 4k more health in his 50 pvp gear than I have on my tank spec Guardian(level 47), and I'm decked out in level 44+ modded orange gear for the most part. The level 50 purple pvp gear makes ten worlds of difference in how effective you are. It's a very good thing 50s are getting their own bracket. It's definitely needed.
Yeah, I have a healer friend telling me I need better gear. I just hit 50, in crafted blues. He's in almost full Champion gear. We dueled. He didn't even need to heal and I couldn't get him below 80% before he won. The difference is a bit severe, imo.
Posts
The thing is that a Sage/Sorceror has everything that the Commando/Mercenary has and more. Things they share:
1. Knockback
2. Stun
3. CC
4. Heals
Things Sage/Sorc has on top of that:
1. Shielding/HoTs (mobile healing)
2. Force Dash
3. Interrupt
4. Snare
5. Lifegrip
I'm not saying that you can't do good as a Commando/Mercernary, but that you could do everything better as a Sage/Sorc.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
And wear heavy armor.
And heal with your gun.
RC: Ais
Commandos/Mercs also have mobile healing. Their Knockback is also superior, as it slows for quite a bit afterward. Speaking as a dude who has played hundreds of warzone matches as melee DPS (operative and marauder) Mercenaries/Commandos are much harder targets than Sorcerers/Sages. Their armor is tougher, their escape options are nastier, and they tend to do damage to me much faster.
I've also been in numerous warzones where I've seen mercenaries as low as level 11 or 14 top the scoreboard with almost 300,000 damage and some 75,000 healing. I've never seen low level sorcerers be even nearly as effective.
It's still too early to be talking about overall balance seeing as we don't even have a 50 only bracket to properly compare things, but just based on my anecdotal evidence from a ton of warzones played, Mercenaries definitely have a place, and they are at least on par with sages/sorcs.
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On the plus side it's kind of nice because the healers are then forced to try and heal others and I can pick them off.
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Yea, mercs usually beat me in damage but I usually beat them with kills and I'm better equipped to kill an individual target at a critical point.
I was trying not to say things off of anecdotal evidence, I was just stating facts. But lets get anecdotal.
Their escape options are extremely limited - the knockback is their single untalented escape (other than the stun which has a minute cooldown and can be trinketed). Once you've over come that you can shut them down easily by interrupting their main nuke (Power Shot/Tracer Missile) or main heal, at which point their damage or healing is negligible. Its also extremely easy to abuse LoS to make them do little to no damage to you, since most of their damage is from spamming a 1.5s cast. They don't have a snare (other than their melee range knockback on a 30/20 second cd) to keep someone from just popping continuously around a corner. This point comes from personal experience dueling Sages/Sorcerers, who do have a ranged snare to keep someone from doing that to them.
Sure, if a Merc is allowed to free cast all day long, they'll rack up huge numbers, any class can. Hell I can top damage meters as tank spec'd Vanguard. In general, Trooper/Bounty Hunter damage is heavily padded by Death From Above/Mortar Volley and other AoE damage.
I have a merc at 50 and played a decent amount of pvp. I know from experience that Sorcerers outclass me in every way, especially in Huttball where mobility reigns supreme.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Bnet tag: Nermals#11601
I know this, as I am a sage, and ow.
This is truth.
If one guy comes at me as a sorc, I laugh, DOT him up, stun him and kill him. If 2 guys come at me, I'm dead if they can jump at me twice. I normally try to go out in a blaze of glory, but yeah, mobility is not the strong suit.
Force Sprint and Lifegrip is infinitely more potent than what Commandos/Mercenaries get, which is nothing.
Same as a Commando/Mercenary, except they don't even have the option of the dash.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I'm thinking about respeccing, because PVP is my main focus.
I giggle like a little girl everytime I succed at that. Who needs the ball, burninating is where the hilarity is at.
Also, I'm glad "Target Optimizations" is on their to-do list, because next to the UI in general, that's rapidly become my most major issue with this game (Targetting via healthbars, for the love of the Emperor)
Oho.
Bwhahaha.
Bwa.
Hah.
Heeeeheeeeheeeeneeeeeeehiiii-snerk.
Chortle.
Aw yeah. Pyrotech is pretty funny to play. Right up there with Sniper.
If I ever encounter something more amusing than the sizzling corpse of a healer my face may break.
the New England Patriots play Huttball?
Queue with a group of at least three. Pass for wins. That's what I do. Our group has gotten fairly good at it so far. We send out Sorcerer in first with his dash to get the ball while the rest of us circle around to be available for a pass. Then we run it in on both sides on the top catwalks and pass it if we're in danger. We almost always score in the first minute which demoralizes the enemy team into making more mistakes giving us the win.
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On Coruscant there's a dude by your trainer that has it.
Awesome, how do I get to Coruscant as a Sith?
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The vendors in the fleet don't have that gear on them. I don't know any other sources for that particular gear.
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So not surprisingly my team gets curb stomped as this guy mocks us and ignores all attempts to point out that he followed most of us to the left point, or even that you can stage a come back and win the match. I know you can win even if the other team gets all 3 points right away as ive been in a match where we managed to comeback from 3 bases down..
Its not too bad because you still get rewards even for losing but it is annoying as hell when some asshole and his buddy give up at put you at a 2 man disadvantage before 30 seconds have passed. There is nothing you can do to stop it! *rant over*
But people AFKing in warzones and refusing to help are worse than Hitler.
Then there's the whole getting kicked out of a bg right as it ends for god knows fucking why and not getting any experience or points or anything for 15 minutes of getting raped through the pants AND getting thrown back to the imperial fleet regardless of what planet I was on. So not only am I fucked out of all pvp winning or loss exp but I also have to waste time traveling back to the planet I was on. Absolutely abysmal.
I'm dead serious."
Dunno if anyone still carries this opinion, but I regularly average 25 kills, 5-10 killing blows, 2 solo kills, 4-6 deaths, and a load of XP and creds each match with level 10-15 toons (Gunslinger and Juggernaught).
I certainly don't do as well as the max level guys in the battleground, but being low level doesn't make you useless or a punching bag and I'm certainly not at the bottom of the match.
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Bolster looks at level, and probably doesn't use "decked in epics" as a baseline.
I agree with you, I don't feel like I'm worthless in PvP, even in my lowbie guys. My w/l ratio is about even and I almost always feel useful. The only time the matches really suck is if you get a team that doesn't know what they are doing and you have a premade on the other side playing huttball and they are either passing really well or just steamrolling with a tank/healer ball. That sucks. But honestly I only run in to a few matches per day that are that one sided, and usually I'm on the winning side of some of them so I don't mind.
When they split of the 50 tier that will pretty much take care of that problem....I just hope there are enough non 50's to keep PvP active at all hours...
If you're playing against a new 50, or a dumb 50, you have a fighting chance. If you're 11 and they have as much gear as I do? If they are anywhere near competent you're getting your head stomped in.
I have even more expertise and as an Immortal spec Juggernaut with a single healer to back me up we regularly take on groups of 5-6 sub 50's. It's just simply too much of an advantage. Brackets are going to be a good thing.
I'm disappointed in the Ilum "end-game experience" so far. And I actually had one Imperial attack me there. I was being cheered on by two other Imperials who were more concerned with me surviving to help them finish their Daily then their "friend" killing me.
Yeah, I have a healer friend telling me I need better gear. I just hit 50, in crafted blues. He's in almost full Champion gear. We dueled. He didn't even need to heal and I couldn't get him below 80% before he won. The difference is a bit severe, imo.