I wonder to what extent the game is intuitive to play with this update. I still remember having to watch hours of youtube tutorials just to understand the thing, then when I stopped playing for a little bit I forgot everything and just don't have the time these days for that level of tedium. I think I heard they were adding mouse controls which will probably help a ton.
I haven't played in years and years, but I don't know that it's possible to make a game like this intuitive to play without a massive reworking of it's UI and adding pop-up tips and tutorials and stuff. I'm sure there has been a lot of work done to make it more intuitive than it was, but it's still probably gonna be pretty impenetrable at first glance.
I mean, that's kinda what this graphic version is tho :P I just don't know what extent they updated stuff. I'm sure there will always be super complicated stuff but like, if the basics are more understandable that would be huge.
As I understand it, there's a tutorial to get you through the really basic stuff and then it's back into the deep end.
Part of the fun of this game is failing. I know that may not be for everyone but I think realizing that the game is a series of failure forts and onto the next is paramount to the experience heh.
I wonder to what extent the game is intuitive to play with this update. I still remember having to watch hours of youtube tutorials just to understand the thing, then when I stopped playing for a little bit I forgot everything and just don't have the time these days for that level of tedium. I think I heard they were adding mouse controls which will probably help a ton.
I haven't played in years and years, but I don't know that it's possible to make a game like this intuitive to play without a massive reworking of it's UI and adding pop-up tips and tutorials and stuff. I'm sure there has been a lot of work done to make it more intuitive than it was, but it's still probably gonna be pretty impenetrable at first glance.
I mean, that's kinda what this graphic version is tho :P I just don't know what extent they updated stuff. I'm sure there will always be super complicated stuff but like, if the basics are more understandable that would be huge.
As I understand it, there's a tutorial to get you through the really basic stuff and then it's back into the deep end.
The broad concepts are more important than the details.
Just keep in mind that it's a game where the player says what they want to happen, and eventually some dwarf will come along and do it. To make this process happen, you have to make sure some dwarf has that type of labor enabled, make sure they have access to a tool like a pickaxe or workshop if necessary, and know how to issue the command. You need to gather raw materials, build workshops, craft items, and install them to make use of them.
There are designations which are for interacting with the existing world (chop this tree, mine this wall). There are zones and stockpiles where activities should take place (gather lumber and put it here, consider this room a hospital). There is building, which is taking materials or goods and installing them for active use (put this bed here). There is building tasks/preferences, which lets you request tasks to be done at that building or defining a room from an object (make mugs at this workshop, consider this bed Urist's bedroom). And there are individual dwarf settings for defining what jobs they can do, their inventory, and their thoughts and feelings.
That's almost the entire game right there. The rest is remembering keys to press and where certain settings might be buried, though for lack of a better word "item recipes" are often just something a newbie needs to know, like the fact that beds are made from wood and nothing else (no need for cloth pillows). Though workshops will tell you what they're missing.
Some of the other issues are that some aspects of the game kind of run on autopilot, while others require player input. If you say "this is a stockpile for wood," you don't have to issue the command "bring wood to stockpile," it just happens until it's full. If you say "this is a hospital," first you just have to know that you need cabinets there to hold thread and cloth, and then dwarves will automatically bring thread and cloth. But if you build a workshop, they won't just start building beds. I guess to some extent the difference is obvious, but that's in hindsight from someone who knows how to play.
I think the game has been lost in the weeds for a long time with zones/areas/defining rooms. Other games (Rimworld, Prison Architect) simply let you define rooms wherever you want and they all behave in a unified way, but here, some of them are a rectangle you draw anywhere you want while others expand out from a single piece of furniture like a bed or table. Bad form.
Part of the fun of this game is failing. I know that may not be for everyone but I think realizing that the game is a series of failure forts and onto the next is paramount to the experience heh.
But a modern player buying the game on Steam should not be facing gradual slowdown and FPS death as one form of failing. We wouldn't accept that for any other modern game.
Part of the fun of this game is failing. I know that may not be for everyone but I think realizing that the game is a series of failure forts and onto the next is paramount to the experience heh.
But a modern player buying the game on Steam should not be facing gradual slowdown and FPS death as one form of failing. We wouldn't accept that for any other modern game.
Part of the fun of this game is failing. I know that may not be for everyone but I think realizing that the game is a series of failure forts and onto the next is paramount to the experience heh.
But a modern player buying the game on Steam should not be facing gradual slowdown and FPS death as one form of failing. We wouldn't accept that for any other modern game.
I have played Satisfactory 136 hours on Steam, and haven't had that problem.
My biggest issue with a modern game in recent memory is selecting a fleet in Stellaris that drops me to 1-2 FPS and makes the game almost nonfunctional until I deselect it. Seems to be due to a wide variety of tiny ships having accumulated various amounts of damage, having been repaired and damaged again etc. But it's not game ending and not the reason I would start over.
Vicky3 has some late game fps issues. PDX games tends to at release. Satisfactory you get FPS issues if you scale up really hard and do not distribute out.
You can mitigate fps death with dfhack and doing things like walling off the cavern etc. I agree it will be an issue but I also still place this game on the ultra underground list even with a steam release. Tantrums for me are more of a problem than FPS drops but then again I limit my population and birthrates too.
+1
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Some of the other issues are that some aspects of the game kind of run on autopilot, while others require player input. If you say "this is a stockpile for wood," you don't have to issue the command "bring wood to stockpile," it just happens until it's full. If you say "this is a hospital," first you just have to know that you need cabinets there to hold thread and cloth, and then dwarves will automatically bring thread and cloth. But if you build a workshop, they won't just start building beds. I guess to some extent the difference is obvious, but that's in hindsight from someone who knows how to play.
I think the game has been lost in the weeds for a long time with zones/areas/defining rooms. Other games (Rimworld, Prison Architect) simply let you define rooms wherever you want and they all behave in a unified way, but here, some of them are a rectangle you draw anywhere you want while others expand out from a single piece of furniture like a bed or table. Bad form.
It's been so long since I played (like probably over 10 years at this point) but this sounds like the kind of stuff I was running into, if I'm remembering right. There's a lot of very specific things that need to happen for certain things to actually work and it's not the most intuitive. I'm reaching way back, but I sorta remember the first time I played, just failing miserably (like literally nothing was working right, no one was eating or growing food, etc), then when I studied the youtube tutorials it was like "Oh, that's why when I did X it didn't work right." I sorta remember bedrooms needed certain things? I dunno. That's the kind of stuff I would have liked to see better elaborated on (but again, it's been forever, I dunno how much has changed since then even in the non graphical version).
I sorta remember hotkeys being a big hassle too which is something I assume the mouse controls will help with.
Like, I'm ok with things going badly and screwing up, it's just when I want to do a thing and it's really confusing why it's not working right or how to even do it, that's what I hope they've smoothed out a little.
HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I’m going to purchase it to pay for the service rendered back in the day. But I honestly don’t think I could play this game again this day and age. I saw the trailer and fell into a pile of nostalgic bones. What a unique and amazing project this is.
PSN: Honkalot
0
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I just jumped back into this, genned up a new world. Super tall peaks next to a volcano. No water (except some ponds), but I'm making due so far. It's been pretty fun, and my memory has been pretty accurate so far. The only thing I couldn't remember how to do at first was set up a place to put friendly bodies while I'm working on laying them to rest, but I got it figured out eventually.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I just jumped back into this, genned up a new world. Super tall peaks next to a volcano. No water (except some ponds), but I'm making due so far. It's been pretty fun, and my memory has been pretty accurate so far. The only thing I couldn't remember how to do at first was set up a place to put friendly bodies while I'm working on laying them to rest, but I got it figured out eventually.
I wonder to what extent the game is intuitive to play with this update. I still remember having to watch hours of youtube tutorials just to understand the thing, then when I stopped playing for a little bit I forgot everything and just don't have the time these days for that level of tedium. I think I heard they were adding mouse controls which will probably help a ton.
I haven't played in years and years, but I don't know that it's possible to make a game like this intuitive to play without a massive reworking of it's UI and adding pop-up tips and tutorials and stuff. I'm sure there has been a lot of work done to make it more intuitive than it was, but it's still probably gonna be pretty impenetrable at first glance.
I mean, that's kinda what this graphic version is tho :P I just don't know what extent they updated stuff. I'm sure there will always be super complicated stuff but like, if the basics are more understandable that would be huge.
All the development newsletters over the years really make it seem more understandable. Particularly with the updated UI, controls, and tooltips. Actually I'm not 100% on the tips, I think I remember seeing them show that in a recent newsletter email.
But the controls not being remember where everything hides in the menu will go a long way.
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Holy siege batman. I've got 290 goblins, humans, dwarves, beak dogs, and trolls camping right outside my drawbridge right now. I was thinking I should work on getting my military working, but I'm not sure if I'll ever have a military that can handle that...
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I wonder to what extent the game is intuitive to play with this update. I still remember having to watch hours of youtube tutorials just to understand the thing, then when I stopped playing for a little bit I forgot everything and just don't have the time these days for that level of tedium. I think I heard they were adding mouse controls which will probably help a ton.
I haven't played in years and years, but I don't know that it's possible to make a game like this intuitive to play without a massive reworking of it's UI and adding pop-up tips and tutorials and stuff. I'm sure there has been a lot of work done to make it more intuitive than it was, but it's still probably gonna be pretty impenetrable at first glance.
I mean, that's kinda what this graphic version is tho :P I just don't know what extent they updated stuff. I'm sure there will always be super complicated stuff but like, if the basics are more understandable that would be huge.
All the development newsletters over the years really make it seem more understandable. Particularly with the updated UI, controls, and tooltips. Actually I'm not 100% on the tips, I think I remember seeing them show that in a recent newsletter email.
But the controls not being remember where everything hides in the menu will go a long way.
Ok awesome, that's exactly what I want. I just don't wanna have to go through a 60 part youtube tutorial to re-learn how to do even the basics :P
Holy siege batman. I've got 290 goblins, humans, dwarves, beak dogs, and trolls camping right outside my drawbridge right now. I was thinking I should work on getting my military working, but I'm not sure if I'll ever have a military that can handle that...
If in doubt cause the planet’s core to erupt and let loose the unspeakable evils of Hell. No one destroys our civilisation but us.
+2
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I survived the seige, mostly just waited for them to get bored, and then of course lost everything top a werebeast cycle... I maybe could have salvaged it, since my hospital was right next to the Volcano, but I had lost close to 50 dwarves, so instead I pulled up the drawbridge and flooded the fort with magma.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I don't know if it's the first video from the twitch series, or something else they posted, but this is a pretty great look at what it's going to look like
This is the first episode and it's very good. The person playing isn't a superuser already familiar with stuff. So they're fumbling a bit while devs give guidance.
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
That labor menu looks like it's going to be amazing. It's always been my "issue" with DF Therapist. Trying to focus on these tiny boxes of this big ass spreadsheet, cross referencing an individual dwarf and the various labors makes my eyes hurt.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
That labor menu looks like it's going to be amazing. It's always been my "issue" with DF Therapist. Trying to focus on these tiny boxes of this big ass spreadsheet, cross referencing an individual dwarf and the various labors makes my eyes hurt.
If it was up to me, I'd send anybody who uses these newfangled "graphics" straight to the hammerer. How can anyone achieve maximum dwarf if they can't tell professions apart by their slightly varying shades of gray? Bleeding eyes are a cornerstone of the experience!
Still mad the hammerer is optional in the latest updates. I assign a hammerer every time because there is never enough fun in a fortress. Give them a silver hammer and nickname them "Maxwell."
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
I love those noble needs icons. Feels a lot like a UI element other games in this style would have.
I'm thinking that my first game with the Steam version might be a 1x1 embark and a population initially limited to 20 or something, those are always so much fun.
As of 10/22 it sounds like Tarn may have fixed one of the more noticeable and annoying longstanding bugs in the game:
Bin storage jobs no longer stop other jobs from using the bin and they don't try to haul items to bins that aren't in the right stockpile.
This is pretty huge. People used to recommend never using bins because of this. For example if you had a bin full of mugs one guy would reserve his right to pick up a mug and nobody else would be able to go to that same bin until he got there, so most dwarves might behave as if there are no accessible mugs and get mad when they have to drink straight from the tap.
I love those noble needs icons. Feels a lot like a UI element other games in this style would have.
I'm thinking that my first game with the Steam version might be a 1x1 embark and a population initially limited to 20 or something, those are always so much fun.
As of 10/22 it sounds like Tarn may have fixed one of the more noticeable and annoying longstanding bugs in the game:
Bin storage jobs no longer stop other jobs from using the bin and they don't try to haul items to bins that aren't in the right stockpile.
This is pretty huge. People used to recommend never using bins because of this. For example if you had a bin full of mugs one guy would reserve his right to pick up a mug and nobody else would be able to go to that same bin until he got there, so most dwarves might behave as if there are no accessible mugs and get mad when they have to drink straight from the tap.
I always assumed it was because they were taking the whole bin to wherever the item was located, putting it in the bin, then carrying it back. It made gem cutting/setting absolutely aggravating.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Particularly when the bin was on the opposite side of the map. Once a bin was reserved for a dwarf on a "drink" job it was inaccessible to anyone else until that dwarf got there.
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
I don't know if it's the first video from the twitch series, or something else they posted, but this is a pretty great look at what it's going to look like
This video is incredibly painful to watch. It is making my eye twitch.
She doesn't pause so she completely wastes an entire season.
And she refuses to plan out a digging layout and just kind of arbitrarily drags rectangular chunks which are not symmetrical.
I will partly chalk this up to the tutorial not auto-pausing or emphasizing the importance of pausing! Seems like a kind of poor tutorial...but then, I don't know what could possibly begin to introduce a new player to all the complexities. Honestly Dwarf Fortress needs a full-on campaign mode of tiny map scenarios you are asked to add onto or fix, like how other sim games like RCT3 keep gradually introducing new concepts as you go.
The devs being a couple of seconds behind on the stream didn't help
It did confirm how much I remember about a game I haven't played in a decade, though, as I was thinking stuff like, "no, the building options are over there!"
The devs being a couple of seconds behind on the stream didn't help
It did confirm how much I remember about a game I haven't played in a decade, though, as I was thinking stuff like, "no, the building options are over there!"
I watched the stream for a little bit and the hot keys to do stuff started popping into my head which is wild because its probably been 10 years since I played.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I played a few months back and while I personally didn’t remember the controls my fingers sure did. It was kind of a surreal experience.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I think the game has been lost in the weeds for a long time with zones/areas/defining rooms. Other games (Rimworld, Prison Architect) simply let you define rooms wherever you want and they all behave in a unified way, but here, some of them are a rectangle you draw anywhere you want while others expand out from a single piece of furniture like a bed or table. Bad form.
I was just complaining about this earlier and it seems the new release will finally consolidate this. The new zone menu:
Bedrooms and offices now defined arbitrarily alongside meeting areas, pastures, sand gathering areas etc.
I notice hospital is absent which makes me think it must've been rolled into a subcategory of bedroom or dormitory.
Posts
As I understand it, there's a tutorial to get you through the really basic stuff and then it's back into the deep end.
The broad concepts are more important than the details.
Just keep in mind that it's a game where the player says what they want to happen, and eventually some dwarf will come along and do it. To make this process happen, you have to make sure some dwarf has that type of labor enabled, make sure they have access to a tool like a pickaxe or workshop if necessary, and know how to issue the command. You need to gather raw materials, build workshops, craft items, and install them to make use of them.
There are designations which are for interacting with the existing world (chop this tree, mine this wall). There are zones and stockpiles where activities should take place (gather lumber and put it here, consider this room a hospital). There is building, which is taking materials or goods and installing them for active use (put this bed here). There is building tasks/preferences, which lets you request tasks to be done at that building or defining a room from an object (make mugs at this workshop, consider this bed Urist's bedroom). And there are individual dwarf settings for defining what jobs they can do, their inventory, and their thoughts and feelings.
That's almost the entire game right there. The rest is remembering keys to press and where certain settings might be buried, though for lack of a better word "item recipes" are often just something a newbie needs to know, like the fact that beds are made from wood and nothing else (no need for cloth pillows). Though workshops will tell you what they're missing.
Some of the other issues are that some aspects of the game kind of run on autopilot, while others require player input. If you say "this is a stockpile for wood," you don't have to issue the command "bring wood to stockpile," it just happens until it's full. If you say "this is a hospital," first you just have to know that you need cabinets there to hold thread and cloth, and then dwarves will automatically bring thread and cloth. But if you build a workshop, they won't just start building beds. I guess to some extent the difference is obvious, but that's in hindsight from someone who knows how to play.
I think the game has been lost in the weeds for a long time with zones/areas/defining rooms. Other games (Rimworld, Prison Architect) simply let you define rooms wherever you want and they all behave in a unified way, but here, some of them are a rectangle you draw anywhere you want while others expand out from a single piece of furniture like a bed or table. Bad form.
But a modern player buying the game on Steam should not be facing gradual slowdown and FPS death as one form of failing. We wouldn't accept that for any other modern game.
You've never played Anno 1800 I take it?
Or satisfactory.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
My biggest issue with a modern game in recent memory is selecting a fleet in Stellaris that drops me to 1-2 FPS and makes the game almost nonfunctional until I deselect it. Seems to be due to a wide variety of tiny ships having accumulated various amounts of damage, having been repaired and damaged again etc. But it's not game ending and not the reason I would start over.
You can mitigate fps death with dfhack and doing things like walling off the cavern etc. I agree it will be an issue but I also still place this game on the ultra underground list even with a steam release. Tantrums for me are more of a problem than FPS drops but then again I limit my population and birthrates too.
It's been so long since I played (like probably over 10 years at this point) but this sounds like the kind of stuff I was running into, if I'm remembering right. There's a lot of very specific things that need to happen for certain things to actually work and it's not the most intuitive. I'm reaching way back, but I sorta remember the first time I played, just failing miserably (like literally nothing was working right, no one was eating or growing food, etc), then when I studied the youtube tutorials it was like "Oh, that's why when I did X it didn't work right." I sorta remember bedrooms needed certain things? I dunno. That's the kind of stuff I would have liked to see better elaborated on (but again, it's been forever, I dunno how much has changed since then even in the non graphical version).
I sorta remember hotkeys being a big hassle too which is something I assume the mouse controls will help with.
Like, I'm ok with things going badly and screwing up, it's just when I want to do a thing and it's really confusing why it's not working right or how to even do it, that's what I hope they've smoothed out a little.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
It was in the volcano, right?
All the development newsletters over the years really make it seem more understandable. Particularly with the updated UI, controls, and tooltips. Actually I'm not 100% on the tips, I think I remember seeing them show that in a recent newsletter email.
But the controls not being remember where everything hides in the menu will go a long way.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Integrated Dwarf Therapist style UI is probably the thing I'm most excited for.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Ok awesome, that's exactly what I want. I just don't wanna have to go through a 60 part youtube tutorial to re-learn how to do even the basics :P
That's why you build minecart shotguns.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Didn't realize I was in the election thread.
I am very hype.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
That's way too damn fast ...
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
UI looks great.
Nobles menu
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
If it was up to me, I'd send anybody who uses these newfangled "graphics" straight to the hammerer. How can anyone achieve maximum dwarf if they can't tell professions apart by their slightly varying shades of gray? Bleeding eyes are a cornerstone of the experience!
I'm thinking that my first game with the Steam version might be a 1x1 embark and a population initially limited to 20 or something, those are always so much fun.
As of 10/22 it sounds like Tarn may have fixed one of the more noticeable and annoying longstanding bugs in the game:
This is pretty huge. People used to recommend never using bins because of this. For example if you had a bin full of mugs one guy would reserve his right to pick up a mug and nobody else would be able to go to that same bin until he got there, so most dwarves might behave as if there are no accessible mugs and get mad when they have to drink straight from the tap.
I always assumed it was because they were taking the whole bin to wherever the item was located, putting it in the bin, then carrying it back. It made gem cutting/setting absolutely aggravating.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Dwarf Fortress and Deep Rock Galactic should do a crossover event
This video is incredibly painful to watch. It is making my eye twitch.
And she refuses to plan out a digging layout and just kind of arbitrarily drags rectangular chunks which are not symmetrical.
I will partly chalk this up to the tutorial not auto-pausing or emphasizing the importance of pausing! Seems like a kind of poor tutorial...but then, I don't know what could possibly begin to introduce a new player to all the complexities. Honestly Dwarf Fortress needs a full-on campaign mode of tiny map scenarios you are asked to add onto or fix, like how other sim games like RCT3 keep gradually introducing new concepts as you go.
It did confirm how much I remember about a game I haven't played in a decade, though, as I was thinking stuff like, "no, the building options are over there!"
I watched the stream for a little bit and the hot keys to do stuff started popping into my head which is wild because its probably been 10 years since I played.
I had pretty much this exact experience two weeks ago.
I was just complaining about this earlier and it seems the new release will finally consolidate this. The new zone menu:
Bedrooms and offices now defined arbitrarily alongside meeting areas, pastures, sand gathering areas etc.
I notice hospital is absent which makes me think it must've been rolled into a subcategory of bedroom or dormitory.