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[Starcraft2] "Zerg can't beat protoss." - Idra

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Posts

  • KeamienKeamien Registered User regular
    I've decided that I am opposed to the concept of warp prisms, at least at how easy that can be obtained in the game. The warp in mechanic was already REALLY good, giving toss incredible reinforcement advantage (necessary for late game, borderline broken early game). But giving a flying unit the ability to become a pylon? Stupid bullshit.

    I think maybe the warp in part could be a research thing, thus making warp prisms still a thing, but not such a powerful all-in tool.

  • SeguerSeguer of the Void Sydney, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    narwhal wrote:
    Alright people. Time to put color back in our thread. Maybe in the future I'll get to draw pictures for everyone again :D

    What

  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    Just revert the HP buff.

  • Matt343Matt343 Registered User regular
    Variable wrote:
    iowa wrote:
    I'm signing up. waiting for the game to patch.

    I have a conundrum - zerg or terran

    i mean. terran was my bw race. terran is the bro race. but i want to get good at zerg. winning a game with a ling runby owns. zerg owns.

    when i first got my sc2 beta key i was convinced that i could go in virgin and beat lemming. he cock slapped me with a marauder push or something. it sucked. anyone read anything about performance psychology? i was all, yeah its gunna be exactly the same as BW im in the zone and lemming sucks at BW thisll be easy. but no its not BW >:(

    im gunna ladder as zerg i think.
    as long as you don't pick protoss

    we are lowest on terran though I believe. not that that really means anything but it is true

    Don't listen to him, you know you want to try something new and exciting. Join the superior race. Join us.

    Join us.

    steam_sig.png
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Keamien wrote:
    I've decided that I am opposed to the concept of warp prisms, at least at how easy that can be obtained in the game. The warp in mechanic was already REALLY good, giving toss incredible reinforcement advantage (necessary for late game, borderline broken early game). But giving a flying unit the ability to become a pylon? Stupid bullshit.

    I think maybe the warp in part could be a research thing, thus making warp prisms still a thing, but not such a powerful all-in tool.


    Doesn't cost gas either.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • projectmayhemprojectmayhem Registered User regular
    How do I get my sc2 sig to not just be a link? I fee like its on the page somewhere and I just cant see it.

  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Remove the link code from BBcode.

    So just take out the img stuff in the middle and put it in your sig, like:

    1675514-1.png

    Quote to see the code.

    Hoz on
  • Matt343Matt343 Registered User regular
    Keamien wrote:
    I've decided that I am opposed to the concept of warp prisms, at least at how easy that can be obtained in the game. The warp in mechanic was already REALLY good, giving toss incredible reinforcement advantage (necessary for late game, borderline broken early game). But giving a flying unit the ability to become a pylon? Stupid bullshit.

    I think maybe the warp in part could be a research thing, thus making warp prisms still a thing, but not such a powerful all-in tool.

    But warp prisms are so fun! Couldn't most of the warp in shenanigans be done by transporting a probe and warping in a pylon? As long as you are proxying somewhere where they don't have vision it shouldn't make too much of a difference, so then the only advantage that warp prisms have over pylons is the ability to be at the armies location during a battle. Even that can be handled with good pylon spreading and bringing a probe with your army, so I guess I'm not really seeing what advantage prisms give that is so game breaking aside from slightly expediting the process of placing a temporary, highly vulnerable, pylon.

    steam_sig.png
  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    It's a flying fucking nydus network, that's the advantage it gives.

  • SeguerSeguer of the Void Sydney, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Except it can only bring in 4 + Number of Cooled Down Warpgates worth of units

    Whereas a Nydus can transport all the ground units in your army

  • TrunkersTrunkers Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Also Warp Prisms make the game so much better from a spectator point of view. Have you ever seen warp prism play and not been entertained?

    I haven't.
    Q.E. motherfuckin D.

    Trunkers on
    My MTG Cube Site - -http://riptidelab.com
  • KeamienKeamien Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    The thing that makes a warpprism better than a pylon is that it flies (bypassing defenses), has a short set up time, and if you want it to, comes with its own pylon defence (the units its going to drop). It almost completely negates the sort of defenders advantage that most races need.

    Let me caveat this by saying in the mid to late game, the concept of the warp prism is still rough to deal with, but not nearly as bad as it is early game.

    Keamien on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Mosez wrote:
    . I don't know how it is with some of you, but I feel a bit reluctant to ask some of the better players for advice to get better. If I had a Masters captain at the helm of a team, I wouldn't be so shy about asking a teammate for tips.

    I don't understand where you might get this impression from - I love giving advice and talking about Starcraft in depth. I'm always happy to help with anything.

  • RofflorRofflor Adventurer Registered User regular
    After some off time from sc2 I tried some cute warp prism play and got crushed.
    I then lost to muta ling even after being ahead both in economy and units, don't really know what happend there.

    Muta/Ling is the worst composition to loose against. Way worse then marine marauder. Whats that zerg slime? You made two units the entire game that gives you complete map control? How nice, that must feel fantastic, you retarded fucking fuckhead.

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  • BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    just played a great zvt with keamien

    (he won)

    http://drop.sc/100815

    your advice

    give it to me

    Biosys on
  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    Keamien wrote:
    The thing that makes a warpprism better than a pylon is that it flies (bypassing defenses), has a short set up time, and if you want it to, comes with its own pylon defence (the units its going to drop). It almost completely negates the sort of defenders advantage that most races need.

    Let me caveat this by saying in the mid to late game, the concept of the warp prism is still rough to deal with, but not nearly as bad as it is early game.

    Do you have a problem with it as a forward pylon or as a dropship? It's slightly better than a forward pylon in that it can start warping in units quicker, and I have no problem with that. As a drop ship, I don't see how it is any worse than two medivacs dropping marines and marauders in a base. The only problem I have with it is how easy it is to win a PvZ simply by dropping a few sentries by a ramp.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Rofflor wrote:
    After some off time from sc2 I tried some cute warp prism play and got crushed.
    I then lost to muta ling even after being ahead both in economy and units, don't really know what happend there.

    Muta/Ling is the worst composition to loose against. Way worse then marine marauder. Whats that zerg slime? You made two units the entire game that gives you complete map control? How nice, that must feel fantastic, you retarded fucking fuckhead.

    having tried playing muta/lling, it is just as frustrating from the zerg point of view because the units you're making are so fragile.

    the mindset a zerg going muta/ling has is "fuck, I managed to survive for 12 minutes on just lings until I had a substantial amount of mutas. I deserve to win this fucking game just for that."

  • RofflorRofflor Adventurer Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Yeah I usually just go for the base trade the second I see the trade mark signs of a player going straight in to muta/ling.
    Im just pissed off that I was ahead and got worn down by mutas anyway.

    I know people advise against base trade's against mutas but I like a zealot start, take out the third, then as soon as I can go straight in to the main. Even pulling all my probes if i scout +5 spines.

    Edit: I actually have near a 100% win rate against zerg when pulling all my probes like a terran. I do it every time I have to go to the bathroom, answer my phone or some other big distraction in the early/mid game.

    Rofflor on
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  • KeamienKeamien Registered User regular
    mEEksa wrote:
    Keamien wrote:
    The thing that makes a warpprism better than a pylon is that it flies (bypassing defenses), has a short set up time, and if you want it to, comes with its own pylon defence (the units its going to drop). It almost completely negates the sort of defenders advantage that most races need.

    Let me caveat this by saying in the mid to late game, the concept of the warp prism is still rough to deal with, but not nearly as bad as it is early game.

    Do you have a problem with it as a forward pylon or as a dropship? It's slightly better than a forward pylon in that it can start warping in units quicker, and I have no problem with that. As a drop ship, I don't see how it is any worse than two medivacs dropping marines and marauders in a base. The only problem I have with it is how easy it is to win a PvZ simply by dropping a few sentries by a ramp.

    As a mobile forward pylon is my bone of contention, that can be used effectively about 8minutes into the game(or earlier, i dont know the timings)

  • EuphemonEuphemon itsudemo sagashiteiruyo dokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote:
    3clipse wrote:
    Tken wrote:
    3clipse wrote:
    The thread quote. Is that a real thing he said?

    Because goddammit IdrA that is literally the opposite of true.

    Pretty much an exact quote. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=307340
    KO: Of course Avenge is not an especially highly regarded player since we’ve seen so little of him, but at the same time he at least has what it takes to get past the GSL preliminaries, and you have the most difficulties against Protoss. What do you think your chances are against him?

    IdrA: Well, Zerg doesn’t really beat Protoss right now. People will accuse me of bitching, but that was the general opinion expressed by all the pros in the group selection as well. The matchup is absolutely awful, but I hope I’ll win anyway.

    At least he was a little more reasonable about how he said it than the IdrA of yore.

    Didn't the stats that were posted last month show that ZvP is still zerg favored? o_O

    Don't let your "stats" and "facts" get in the way of IdrA self sabotaging himself out of being one of the best players in the world.

    This actually isn't true. Like I posted a couple of pages back, PvZ in korea is favoring P by 55% in December, and I'm reasonably certain that January stats will have it holding around there. Obviously it's not LITERALLY unwinnable, but when Nestea and DRG also said the same thing in a streamed interview (at the group selections this GSL), it's not quite so easy to scoff at that claim. Granted, Idra always whines about toss, from fucking BW days, but even a broken clock is right twice a day and all that jazz.

    iG3kv1d.png
  • Matt343Matt343 Registered User regular
    Keamien wrote:
    mEEksa wrote:
    Keamien wrote:
    The thing that makes a warpprism better than a pylon is that it flies (bypassing defenses), has a short set up time, and if you want it to, comes with its own pylon defence (the units its going to drop). It almost completely negates the sort of defenders advantage that most races need.

    Let me caveat this by saying in the mid to late game, the concept of the warp prism is still rough to deal with, but not nearly as bad as it is early game.

    Do you have a problem with it as a forward pylon or as a dropship? It's slightly better than a forward pylon in that it can start warping in units quicker, and I have no problem with that. As a drop ship, I don't see how it is any worse than two medivacs dropping marines and marauders in a base. The only problem I have with it is how easy it is to win a PvZ simply by dropping a few sentries by a ramp.

    As a mobile forward pylon is my bone of contention, that can be used effectively about 8minutes into the game(or earlier, i dont know the timings)

    It also has half the health and less armor than a forward pylon, so unless the protoss is really good about pulling it back during a fight you should be able to kill it easier. And if he is keeping it in a really conservative position then it probably isn't giving him as much of an advantage as it could. I see it as a risk/reward mechanic, like cloaked units or nydus worms and such. It is riskier than just building a pylon because of its higher cost and lower defenses, but it gives a higher reward due to its mobility and faster setup time. Maybe it could use some tuning for the super early in base attacks like the warp prism 4-gate, but I think the investment into a robo makes the early gateway attack weaker anyway. Anyone with more gamesense than me agree or am I spouting garbage?

    steam_sig.png
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Hoz wrote:
    Remove the link code from BBcode.

    So just take out the img stuff in the middle and put it in your sig, like:

    1675514-1.png

    Quote to see the code.

    wtf?

    THIEF!!
    *plants proxy*
    and now... we wait....
    tumblr_lmatr6XD2u1qcgrzn.png

    MMMig on
    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • TannerMSTannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!" Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    i think the warp prism is really cool whne people that should watch the minimap use it but when people are not so good at tjhat it is very hard

    when i lose to midgame drops i am very angry at myself instead of ragings about balance but its very strong in the pother leagues I think

    this post has too many typoes and its only 6... but IDRA AND HUK

    smurf time

    TannerMS on
  • KeamienKeamien Registered User regular
    Like I said, midgame and later warpprism is fine and dandy. Its those early game shenanigans that it allows that I have a problem with.

  • TannerMSTannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!" Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    yeah i think we've saying the same thing but classify the mid game and early game and late-game differently because of our races

    actually I don't' think it needs to be changed at all I just think it's disproportionately strong
    sometime

    TannerMS on
  • Matt343Matt343 Registered User regular
    Maybe I'm just not familiar with all of the early game uses of it. I thought most of the time you wanted to use your robot for other things in the early game, so it hasn't seemed strong to me until you are in the later game. What sort of things are people doing with early prisms these days?

    steam_sig.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Is there a way to turn this warp prism talk into a proper "terran op" rant? Let's see...

    Medivacs are like Warp Prisms that heal your army.

    SUCCESS!

    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • KeamienKeamien Registered User regular
    Tanner you are good at posting

  • ShimshaiShimshai Flush with Success! Isle of EmeraldRegistered User regular
    So why are alternate accounts known as smurfs?

    Steam/Origin: Shimshai

    steam_sig.png
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited January 2012
    mEEksa wrote: »
    Keamien wrote:
    The thing that makes a warpprism better than a pylon is that it flies (bypassing defenses), has a short set up time, and if you want it to, comes with its own pylon defence (the units its going to drop). It almost completely negates the sort of defenders advantage that most races need.

    Let me caveat this by saying in the mid to late game, the concept of the warp prism is still rough to deal with, but not nearly as bad as it is early game.

    Do you have a problem with it as a forward pylon or as a dropship? It's slightly better than a forward pylon in that it can start warping in units quicker, and I have no problem with that. As a drop ship, I don't see how it is any worse than two medivacs dropping marines and marauders in a base. The only problem I have with it is how easy it is to win a PvZ simply by dropping a few sentries by a ramp.

    it's a million times better than a pylon

    neither probe nor pylon has ever flown itself into my base

    I find it annoying but I find all drops annoying. I don't have a problem with the unit anymore than I have with most protoss units :D

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • KeamienKeamien Registered User regular
    Because smurfs are small, and when you use an alternate account, you are usually playing in a league that doesn't befit your skill. (its smaller than your league)

    Hence, smurfing

  • EidoloclastEidoloclast Registered User regular
    Hey folks, I know I never post in this thread (or even in these forums really) but I lurk all the time and I have a suggestion for tournaments.

    You could have a league of teams, where the teams fight each other with equivalently ranked players facing each other in 1v1s (captains vs captains, and so on), for a set number of games to determine seeding for the end of season tournament. Winning games here should give your team points--say 7 points for a captain win, 6 points for the second pick on the team, down to 4 points for the lowest-ranking dude on the team. (Assuming teams of 4 here. Possibly 4 teams of 4.) This kind of scaling mean that everyone's games count towards team standings.

    At the end of the season, each team is split into high and low tier pairs, who are then seeded into two separate tournaments--one for high tier, one for low tier. Placing first second or third in either tournament earns team points--say 100, 75, 50 for high tier, and 45, 35, 20 for low tier.

    It seems like a system like this would allow for different skill levels to contribute to team standings, without obscuring the high-level competition to find out who is actually the single best player. It also minimizes out-of-weight-class facestomping.

    You'd have to be careful to keep the teams relatively fair--some kind of captains picking mechanic might achieve this reasonably well. It is possible that there would be a time when it might be advantageous for the second-best person on your team to lose games until they qualify for the low-tier tournament, but that requires skilled players to intentionally throw games against less skilled players, which they tend to hate doing in my experience.

    Anyway, hope someone finds this even a little bit handy. I'll be burrowing away now.

  • Matt343Matt343 Registered User regular
    Guys, I know why I don't have time for more star crafting. So as part of a school project I have been leading a team of people to build a 3D action game over the course of the school year. One of my teammates and I have built the engine and another has done all of the art assets, and the final member was assigned to handle the database components for saving and loading games. All this time he has told me he was doing fine, and I pretty much took him at his word because I had my own things to do (my mistake as team lead, but I trusted the guy). So today, 2 days before deadline (and a week late), he sends me his "code" so I can incorporate it into the rest of the game. He wrote 182 lines of code in that time, giving me a half functional wrapper class for one table in the database, and leaving me to do the rest in two days.
    This is why I don't play starcraft :/

    steam_sig.png
  • TannerMSTannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!" Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    fuck that guy i hate that fucking shit so much

    thank you keamien i like your post too and your challenge picture

    i need a new avatar but i liuked it when this one was the one that evryone uses

    TannerMS on
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Watching CSL vods now

    TKEN HOW DID YOU KNOW I WAS 1-BASE MUTA!

    SO BM!

    ^^'

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    New avatar: acquired. There was also a nyan-cat baneling but without the .gif animation it didn't look as nice as this one.

    _
    Your Ad Here! Reasonable Rates!
  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    Matt343 wrote:
    Guys, I know why I don't have time for more star crafting. So as part of a school project I have been leading a team of people to build a 3D action game over the course of the school year. One of my teammates and I have built the engine and another has done all of the art assets, and the final member was assigned to handle the database components for saving and loading games. All this time he has told me he was doing fine, and I pretty much took him at his word because I had my own things to do (my mistake as team lead, but I trusted the guy). So today, 2 days before deadline (and a week late), he sends me his "code" so I can incorporate it into the rest of the game. He wrote 182 lines of code in that time, giving me a half functional wrapper class for one table in the database, and leaving me to do the rest in two days.
    This is why I don't play starcraft :/

    I don't think I've read a more compelling case for the "bar of soap in a dress sock" school of team leadership, ever.

    _
    Your Ad Here! Reasonable Rates!
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    So make sure that the lazy student gets excluded from benefiting from your marks?

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Matt343 wrote:
    Guys, I know why I don't have time for more star crafting. So as part of a school project I have been leading a team of people to build a 3D action game over the course of the school year. One of my teammates and I have built the engine and another has done all of the art assets, and the final member was assigned to handle the database components for saving and loading games. All this time he has told me he was doing fine, and I pretty much took him at his word because I had my own things to do (my mistake as team lead, but I trusted the guy). So today, 2 days before deadline (and a week late), he sends me his "code" so I can incorporate it into the rest of the game. He wrote 182 lines of code in that time, giving me a half functional wrapper class for one table in the database, and leaving me to do the rest in two days.
    This is why I don't play starcraft :/
    That's OK. It's just like you're playing Random Team 4s anyway.

    182 lines guy is like that partner who one base techs (slowly) to Ravens and then gets them killed by a bunch of marines.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Am I the only guy that goes speedling/baneling in ZvZ anymore or something?

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