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Are you good at action games?
Hotlead Junkie
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So I was chatting with Yallborap after he was asking for some fighting advice on Viewtiful Joe and we got to discussing tactis and stuff in intense action games. You don't have to read the whole thing but it gets across how this thread was started
I'm curious as to what goes through people's heads when they play intesne action games such as Ninja Gaiden (Xbox), Viewtiful Joe, God Hand, Devil May cry 3 Metal Slug 3, etc. As stated in the above conversation, I love games like these and all i need to know is what my character can do, what the enemy can do and I pretty much swicth off my brain and charge in with no plan or regard for my saftey, pushing the character to their limits and taking the time out to screw around with the bad guys, such as waiting for the last second to lodge my sword into an enemy in DMC3, taunting them then booting him away as hard as possible. Sure, I could of waited until he got into an optimal position and unleashed a calculated combo that would of definatley decimated him, but while planning to do that, I may not of noticed something else happening, like an enemy charging up a shot, got hit and then screwed the combo up. Even worse, the plan could of been to wait until the enemy got close then unleash the combo, but after being stunned, the enemy is close enough to decimate me wheras if I was just playing by ear and not planning anything whatsoever, I could of noticed that enemy charging up a shot and dodged/attacked it easily. If I actually pulled off that combo on the enemy, during the combo I'd be thinking, 'what should I do next', then be surprised as something may happen that I didn't plan.
Basically, my play style and thought process in these games are not to plan ahead and just kick as much ass as possible, screw monitoring my power meters and health bar, if I fancy kicking a dude into orbit on God Hand, than into the stratosphere he will fly. If I had decided to save my power, I could of battled him and screwed up the timing of the planned super-move, in turn getting my as kicked, plus, doing over the top stuff like that can have surprisingly pleasant results, for example, I decided to dragon kick a regular enemy into orbit instead of saving it for the boss, but accidentally caught his buddy in the kick too. That in turn saved me the greif of fghting the remaining bad guy and losing health.
How do you guys play intense, tough action games? What are your thought processes? Are you good at them? Bad? Want to be better? Wha games are you perticularly good at? Better at Singleplayer or Multiplayer (Street fighter, Smash Bros, etc) action games?
Yalborap says:
So, quick question. Why is it exactly you seem to be able to play games like God Hand and Viewtiful Joe for freakin' ever? Is it because they're beat-em-ups, or do these key examples just click somehow?
Kevin says:
I'm very good at relying on my instincts in games like those. In many games I can plan my moves, think about tactics, etc, but in something like God Hand or DMC3 or VJ, I switch off that part of my brain that says 'maybe you should save your power' or, 'you don't really need to fight this guy' and just dive right in. Example, I was playing God Hand and a character turned into a massive demon. I said out loud, 'What the hell is-', stopped, yelled 'NYAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!' and dove right at it, pummeling this huge, hulking demon in the face with no regard for my own saftey
Yalborap says:
Well, the fact that you would normally think out your moves at all certainly puts you at a level above my own.
Yalborap says:
And yet, I enjoy ye olde SRPGs....
Kevin says:
No, what I mean is, if I plan my moves in DMC, I'll screw up royally, because I'll try to hit an enemy with a move I planned to use, then I'll not notice the enemy swinging for me at that perticular moment in time while I was trying to execute my planned tactic. In games like SRPGS I have the time to think things through, but in intense fighting games, all I need to know is what my character's limits are, then justtear into the enemy
Yalborap says:
Still a level above me.
Kevin says:
Seriously, it's a case of simply switching your brain off and not worrying about anything whatsoever. I'm good at making split second descisions too. For example, I was playing the new Castlevania today and was fighting Death. My tactic was to skewerhim with the spear as much as possible. I simply ignored the fact that he was throwing his scythe about and summoning blades to attack me. I just started jamming him with my spear and if I saw something coming towards me I did the appropriate action, like jumping away, moving mid-air, sliding out of the way, etc. I never planned ahead, like 'Hmm, this scythe is going to richochet off that wall and bounce back at me in 3 seconds'. When i did that, first, I wasn't moving as I was waiting for the scythe to come near me so I could dodge it, and secondly i wasn't doing any damage to Death whilst standing around doing nothing. My train of thought basically went *stab* *stab* *stab* *stab* *stab* 'OH SHIT SCYTHE!' *Dodge* 'OH SHIT BLADES!' *skid out of way* *stab* *stab*, etc
Yalborap says:
You have the patience of a saint, the bravery of a hero, and breath as fresh as a summer ham.
Kevin says:
I'v no patience whatsoever, if I'm not fighting for my life in an action game I'm bored
Kevin says:
I'm curious, how do you play these kinds of action games?
Yalborap says:
I barrel through, get my ass kicked, eventually give up and get bored.
Kevin says:
Do you think 'I'll just get through this level so I can beat it and move onto the next?' or do you think more like 'I want to kick as much as as possible and I don't care how'
Yalborap says:
First one.
Kevin says:
Hmm, this is interesting stuff, mind if I make a topic of it on PA?
I'm curious as to what goes through people's heads when they play intesne action games such as Ninja Gaiden (Xbox), Viewtiful Joe, God Hand, Devil May cry 3 Metal Slug 3, etc. As stated in the above conversation, I love games like these and all i need to know is what my character can do, what the enemy can do and I pretty much swicth off my brain and charge in with no plan or regard for my saftey, pushing the character to their limits and taking the time out to screw around with the bad guys, such as waiting for the last second to lodge my sword into an enemy in DMC3, taunting them then booting him away as hard as possible. Sure, I could of waited until he got into an optimal position and unleashed a calculated combo that would of definatley decimated him, but while planning to do that, I may not of noticed something else happening, like an enemy charging up a shot, got hit and then screwed the combo up. Even worse, the plan could of been to wait until the enemy got close then unleash the combo, but after being stunned, the enemy is close enough to decimate me wheras if I was just playing by ear and not planning anything whatsoever, I could of noticed that enemy charging up a shot and dodged/attacked it easily. If I actually pulled off that combo on the enemy, during the combo I'd be thinking, 'what should I do next', then be surprised as something may happen that I didn't plan.
Basically, my play style and thought process in these games are not to plan ahead and just kick as much ass as possible, screw monitoring my power meters and health bar, if I fancy kicking a dude into orbit on God Hand, than into the stratosphere he will fly. If I had decided to save my power, I could of battled him and screwed up the timing of the planned super-move, in turn getting my as kicked, plus, doing over the top stuff like that can have surprisingly pleasant results, for example, I decided to dragon kick a regular enemy into orbit instead of saving it for the boss, but accidentally caught his buddy in the kick too. That in turn saved me the greif of fghting the remaining bad guy and losing health.
How do you guys play intense, tough action games? What are your thought processes? Are you good at them? Bad? Want to be better? Wha games are you perticularly good at? Better at Singleplayer or Multiplayer (Street fighter, Smash Bros, etc) action games?
Hotlead Junkie on
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Unfortunately my action instincts are apparently pretty terrible, so I'm not very good at them.
To be nice and actually contribute something... I am so-so at action games. My reaction time isn't too shabby, but I tend to forget what my character is actually capable of.
There will be a super awesome special move/combo/weapon I really really love to use, and I will try to use it as much as possible. Of course, I'll do this even if the enemy is immune/strong against/whatever to that attack. So I'll just plow ahead trying to use a tactic that totally doesn't work, just because i think it's cool. Then i lose and play something else.
Oh, fuck!
To something along the lines of:
OHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHFUCK!!!!
I'm exactly the same, although I'm persistant and ingnorant enough to try beat Vergil only using Nevan (the guitar in DMC3. I start screwing up in Streefighter when I specifically try to work in specials into my fighting instead of just using them on the fly
Fighting games are a little different depending on which game it is. I like to think a lot in a game like virtua fighter 2, but in something like soul caliber 2 I just button mash and win.
I usually go for the "shut brain off and play" route. The thing is, I never really get an optimal way of playing that way but I'm usually able to figure out patterns or find some way of fighting my way through the game without getting stuck too long.
The only game that really frustrated me was Ninja Gaiden, cause everytime I thought I had the game down I somehow ended up making stupid errors. I beat the game on Normal but it wasn't as much fun as I first imagined. Still a great game.
Like, I just downloaded Gunstar Heroes, which is pretty damn intense, action-wise, and I find that while reacting is fine through most of the levels, once it gets around boss time, you better start thinking just a wee bit more than before.
Viewitiful Joe, though? Split-second reactions, and I got pretty damn good at it...but I STILL can't open Ultra V-Rated. Woe is me.
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And, hey, I never even TRY any difficulties higher than normal cause once I beat the game I'm usually bored by it. So yeah, I guess you could say I'm a pussy regarding difficulty ^^
Ehm, where did your post go yalbo? o_O
To the ether.
I'm finding that my brain is working in two ways: I'm letting myself work on instinct, but at the same time I am half-consciously constructing plans to maximize my attack and defense potential, especially in boss fights. Instinct is really magical though, sometimes. When I was fighting Beowulf I was using Royal Guard, and whenever I was just winging it I tended to perfect guard his combos reflexively, which was very helpful.
I sort of have a similar problem. Whenever I'm playing Capcom vs. SNK 2, I always have to finish off my opponent with a level 3 super combo. Heaven forbid I finish with a level 2, level 1, or even worse, a light kick. It makes playing real opponents very difficult.
VJ: FUCK FUCK FUCK! Haha. Boss is dead. Oh shit, not another one. *GAME OVER*
God Hand: Fuck me? No, fuck you! TASTE FIST, JACKASS! HAHA! BALL BUSTED! EAT KUNG FU SAMBA!
Metal Slug: Buttons? Check. Joystick? Check. Screen? Check. Ready
*sets new high score*
My style of play? Just try not to fuck myself over while hammering the attack button. Dodge and block when needed.
Prince of Persia games, though, especially Two Thrones. If those count as action games, I'm pretty good. I think it's because I can plan out what I want to do and stealth kill everybody.
Otherwise the only action games I can think of that I have are platformers. Stuff that's relatively forgiving. If I miss a shot in Ratchet and Clank, it's not the end of the world, but if I screw up in Metal Slug I die over and over again. Same with shmups. I'll be kicking ass on my first guy for a long time and then BAM, all three reserve ships are gone. Weird.
When it comes to fighting games, I can get kinda...Interesting. I always like to finish off one of two ways:
Either a big flashy super attack, OR,
light kick. There's something awesome about just giving a guy a quick little kick to the face and sending him to the ground.
In psychology, that's referred to as "flow". You are in a state of flow when your actions become natural and you don't have to consciously think about them. Part muscle memory, part reflex, part instinct, etc. It can happen with anything, most often when you enjoy yourself. That's what happens when you play a game you enjoy, and suddenly 6 hours have passed. Time flies, indeed.
Another phenomenon for gamers is getting in "The Zone" where everything seems to slow down and you play far, far better than you normally do, i used to hit this zone a lot when i was younger playing videogames than i do now, normally because my brain is pre-occupied with adult things (no not like that!) than to just switch off and give myself totally to the game.
Back when i was a kid though... i WAS in the game, i used to be able to do some crazy hard stuff without even thinking about it and now my reaction times seem slower and i feel less able...
That game taught me the basics of all I used for modern games. Bullet dodging, my ability to shoot a constant stream of bullets at top speed, the ability to keep my eye on the enemy, while looking at my guy with only the corner of my eyes, etc.
I have old school skill.
The first time I was concious of feeling this was when I was playing DDR. I was playing Captain Jack on standard and the arrows were coming too fast to process but my feet just kept moving.
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Stubborn skill?
Like Denzel said in Man on Fire... there's only trained and untrained.
However, some cause my mind to race a mile a minute. Day of Defeat: Source, for example - I only play on skilled, fairly serious servers, so I'm constantly issuing commands or information to my teammates. I've played the game long enough that I can predict where the enemy's focus will be, based on how they've been playing, what our team just accomplished/lost, etc. I try to direct my teammates or at least get them to follow me into the breach and help me rout them or at least cause a ruckus. To me, DoD :S is actually the perfect mix of thoughtful strategy and mindless action - I have to rely on my own reflexes and twitch skills as often as I have to use prediction and tactics.
Of course, this applies to other competitive games as well - the amount of forethought required for TFC readily springs to mind. However, I started getting tired of that once twitch skills and mastering jumping tricks became the order of the day.
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I need to spend a lot of time with a game to get good at it. Because of this I am only really good at certain games- Super Smash Bros (64), Starcraft, Timesplitters 2/3, GTA. After over a year with CSS, I am just good enough to have fun (and a little bit better when I'm drunk). I'm also becoming very good at Wii Tennis.
Meanwhile, I am still terrible at Zelda for some reason. There's something about jumping from platform to platform that my brain just can't handle.
Yes.
I have really good reflexes, timing, dexterity, and spatial orientation. That helps tremendously.
But what also helps is always taking the difficulty up another notch. I thought Shinobi on the PS2 was a tough game, until I beat it and then started on Hard.. then I beat that. Once I had done that, a lot of other games seemed to not be as hard as I once thought. The Devil May Cry games, for instance.
As long as the game is fair about its combat system, then playing it through and taking advantage of that system can make you a great player, and indeed, make the game feel easier.
Shmups had a huge effect on my ability to play tough games, too. Once you've done your damnedest to 1 credit a good shmup, or 3-credit one, or something, then your skills with a lot of games requiring you to keep track of a lot of stuff on-screen really picks up.
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For whatever reason I just have a much easier time hitting "the zone" in games that depend more on my mobility than combos.
My brother is the one who should be in here though. DMC3 was his bitch shortly after he picked it up. He just gets into this flow where he's pulling of these monster combos. He's actually the reason I can't play the damn game. Trying to play it after watching him just makes me feel like an uncoordinated retard.
The (God Hand Stage 7 spoiler)
I do really enjoy action games thou.
The game is all about knowing how to do everything before you have to do it, so you don't have to think about it.
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I wonder what they think of this thread.
I remember someone (Was it you, Slash?) saying God of War's combat system really shines when you are playing on God difficulty. I played on normal and wasn't too impressed with the combat as I could simply slash at enemies until they died, but I'm sure the chain weapons can be used quite elegantley and effectivley if enough effort is put in. VJ's combat just seems more 'tight', meaning you can just pull off or cancel a move nearly instantly, wheras GOW's chain weapons are rather slow and you don't feel like you have a lot of control over them sometimes, until you learn how to control them that is.
Still can't figure out why they call him the champ.......I always win. (even with 2 Excedrin PM)
You probably knocked an enemy or missle into him. The best ways to defeat him are to slow down time and slam an enemy into it or hit the missles so they fly back and then hit slow mo the second before they touch him to do maximum damage. If that fails, just slow down time so it's rotors don't spin as fast, causing it to hit the floor, then zoom in and slow-mo punch it