See I think stuff like this is ultimately a dead end. It's too many proprietary systems which have to work perfectly together to be of any use at all.
I think augmented reality will pretty quickly leapfrog it - everyone keeps their own personal computer space, like a desktop or laptop is now, and the friction point is in allowing people to "share" virtual spaces. Much more solvable though, since whichever protocol works will rapidly become dominant (like the world wide web did).
See I think stuff like this is ultimately a dead end. It's too many proprietary systems which have to work perfectly together to be of any use at all.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
I think it's a dead end because it's not more useful enough then what we already have to be worth jumping too. It's cool to see what people can do though.
See I think stuff like this is ultimately a dead end. It's too many proprietary systems which have to work perfectly together to be of any use at all.
I think augmented reality will pretty quickly leapfrog it - everyone keeps their own personal computer space, like a desktop or laptop is now, and the friction point is in allowing people to "share" virtual spaces. Much more solvable though, since whichever protocol works will rapidly become dominant (like the world wide web did).
I'd really like to see this happen
my only fear is that somebody is going to find a way to upload some kind of virus into this shared virtual space. it seems to me inevitable
and honestly, I really don't want to know what being hacked into feels like
well, it's not like we'd have adam jensen tomorrow if we could figure out the rejection issue. but it is one of the barriers to more advanced prosthetics
Well, the other is power.
We could probably do a lot with wireless detection of nerve impulses if it was practical to keep stuff like that powered for long enough periods of time.
Isn't there someway to harness the beating heart as some sort of power source?
That's what we need. Robotic devices that can empower themselves with the still beating hearts of humans. (I kid, I kid)
If anything, it'd probably be easier to use kinetic chargers or resistance from the other muscles.
What about artificial microscopic power plants that burn sugar? Our bodies already have energy in it and even if it would be less efficient people can just eat more!
Then we can make them self repairing and reproducing. :evil:
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
edited January 2012
Is there any potential advancement, short of FTL travel, we're not just going to be blasé about ten minutes after it becomes a real thing?
"Oh, grandma, I see you went and got a BrainBody, the robotic shell that allows you to live forever. Huh. That's cool, I guess. What's for lunch?"
well, it's not like we'd have adam jensen tomorrow if we could figure out the rejection issue. but it is one of the barriers to more advanced prosthetics
Well, the other is power.
We could probably do a lot with wireless detection of nerve impulses if it was practical to keep stuff like that powered for long enough periods of time.
Isn't there someway to harness the beating heart as some sort of power source?
clearly, our robotic arms are going to run on brain fusion electricity
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
well, it's not like we'd have adam jensen tomorrow if we could figure out the rejection issue. but it is one of the barriers to more advanced prosthetics
Well, the other is power.
We could probably do a lot with wireless detection of nerve impulses if it was practical to keep stuff like that powered for long enough periods of time.
Isn't there someway to harness the beating heart as some sort of power source?
clearly, our robotic arms are going to run on brain fusion electricity
That's what we need. Robotic devices that can empower themselves with the still beating hearts of humans. (I kid, I kid)
If anything, it'd probably be easier to use kinetic chargers or resistance from the other muscles.
What about artificial microscopic power plants that burn sugar? Our bodies already have energy in it and even if it would be less efficient people can just eat more!
Then we can make them self repairing and reproducing. :evil:
There's a hidden risk with this though: it would be dangerous to have a simple reactor take whatever sugar it wanted and use it. What if you don't eat for a while? What if you eat less then you expect? Our bodies have complex feedback mechanisms to ensure we don't die of starvation despite having more then enough to eat - prosthetics pulling as much sugar as they want from your blood would be very bad.
As long as the device isn't completely internal, swapping out batteries seems like the best plan.
It's only 100% internal devices you can't do this with, like pacemakers and such. For a robot arm you should just have a couple of batteries sitting in a specialized charger at home that you can trade every <x> days, or take them all with you if you're going camping or something.
well, it's not like we'd have adam jensen tomorrow if we could figure out the rejection issue. but it is one of the barriers to more advanced prosthetics
Well, the other is power.
We could probably do a lot with wireless detection of nerve impulses if it was practical to keep stuff like that powered for long enough periods of time.
Isn't there someway to harness the beating heart as some sort of power source?
Or you put turbines in the major arteries and let your implants run off heart-powered hydro-power.
Regarding the biological vs. mechanical arm debate,
My first response was biological for the same reasons stated earlier. I'd like to feel normal and pretend that horribly traumatizing accident never happened. But you'd be able to upgrade a mechanical arm with lots of neat things. I'd be awesome if they could fit in a 3D printer. I'd be able to make whatever I want on the fly, like having a green lantern ring.
As long as the device isn't completely internal, swapping out batteries seems like the best plan.
It's only 100% internal devices you can't do this with, like pacemakers and such. For a robot arm you should just have a couple of batteries sitting in a specialized charger at home that you can trade every <x> days, or take them all with you if you're going camping or something.
If we're talking about current, non-hypothetical technology:
Here's a hypothetical: lets say you lost your non-dominant arm in some sort of accident. Now, this is the future, and you have a choice between a mechanical replacement and a cloned replacement. Both would be just as functional as your old arm in dexterity, strength, ability to sense heat, or any other metric. Would you chose the mechanical or biological arm?
I think I'm the oddball here: I would take the mechanical one. I like to tinker
...I kinda like my left hand being made of warm, soft flesh.
If it was the right hand, it would probably screw with human interaction. Meeting folks and shaking their hand with some cold simulacrum of a hand, would probably be off putting. It would still be a bit of an issue even with a left hand.
I like to tinker as well. An arm is what? 20-30 lbs? By the time cybernetic limbs are available, you'd be able to put a hell of a lot of computing power into something that size. I think a big part of my decision would be based around how hacker friendly the artificial limbs are. Is it just a black box that won't do anything other than be a hand? Is there Open Source Options(or at least a nice API), standard connections and all the other stuff that make working with consumer computers approachable? Is it like a car where all the engine management software/hardware is obfuscated, so people can't(easily) make modifications that could increase warranty claims?
I don't think I could stand have a computer strapped to my body, directly tied into my nerves, and not have that ability to use it as a computer. I don't want to have sort of interface and not be able to connect it to what I want.
On the other hand, the consumer computers I'm so fond of have the issue of malware. Folks are smart. If Limbdows has a large enough install base, people are going to spend a lot of time looking for exploits, and they will find them.
I really don't know. On reflex, I'd be all about the machine, but there's a lot of potential downsides and frustrations. When it comes to an appendage, something that is going to just work has a lot of merit, and flesh would deliver. With a cybernetic computer controlled limb... I mean, have you tried finding solid binaries compiled for ARM?
That's what we need. Robotic devices that can empower themselves with the still beating hearts of humans. (I kid, I kid)
If anything, it'd probably be easier to use kinetic chargers or resistance from the other muscles.
What about artificial microscopic power plants that burn sugar? Our bodies already have energy in it and even if it would be less efficient people can just eat more!
Then we can make them self repairing and reproducing. :evil:
There's a hidden risk with this though: it would be dangerous to have a simple reactor take whatever sugar it wanted and use it. What if you don't eat for a while? What if you eat less then you expect? Our bodies have complex feedback mechanisms to ensure we don't die of starvation despite having more then enough to eat - prosthetics pulling as much sugar as they want from your blood would be very bad.
I don't actually know how those blood glucose monitors diabetic people use function, but couldn't you have something similar and have a fail-safe so when your blood sugar level drops too low it shuts off? Hell, couldn't you probably design a semi-permeable membrane that would only allow glucose to diffuse through it if there was above a certain amount of glucose on the outside? Without any intervention, the system would automatically shutdown when blood sugar was too low.
well, it's not like we'd have adam jensen tomorrow if we could figure out the rejection issue. but it is one of the barriers to more advanced prosthetics
Well, the other is power.
We could probably do a lot with wireless detection of nerve impulses if it was practical to keep stuff like that powered for long enough periods of time.
Isn't there someway to harness the beating heart as some sort of power source?
Or you put turbines in the major arteries and let your implants run off heart-powered hydro-power.
Well your blood-pressure would shoot through the roof. Sometimes literally.
Couldn't some enterprising doctor scan a bunch of organs from a bunch of people and put it on Pirate Bay?
So...should I get my DNA and organs copyrighted now?
You should move with all deliberate speed. A handful of biotechnical companies, pharmaceutical firms, and university researchers already hold the patents for many genes.
You should move with all deliberate speed. A handful of biotechnical companies, pharmaceutical firms, and university researchers already hold the patents for many genes.
And goddamn are there some scary precedents already.
well, it's not like we'd have adam jensen tomorrow if we could figure out the rejection issue. but it is one of the barriers to more advanced prosthetics
Well, the other is power.
We could probably do a lot with wireless detection of nerve impulses if it was practical to keep stuff like that powered for long enough periods of time.
Isn't there someway to harness the beating heart as some sort of power source?
Or you put turbines in the major arteries and let your implants run off heart-powered hydro-power.
Well your blood-pressure would shoot through the roof. Sometimes literally.
Yeah this would probably cause a lot of heart attacks
If its one thing I am waiting for its nerve regeneration therapy. I got Cerebral Palsy in lower grade and its fucked my life up in more ways the one. Imagine trying to get a job when you can't write by hand or for long times on keyboards? And being suseptible to injuries because your nerves don't move the muscles right? (Preventing you from taking any physicaly stressfull jobs).
I want that more then anything and the knowledge that it is possible but hasn't arrived yet is painfull. FUCK George W. Bush and his bullshit war on science. In fact fuck the GOP for fucking over science in the whole world really(The US accounts for a lot of the worldwide research).
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Here's a hypothetical: lets say you lost your non-dominant arm in some sort of accident. Now, this is the future, and you have a choice between a mechanical replacement and a cloned replacement. Both would be just as functional as your old arm in dexterity, strength, ability to sense heat, or any other metric. Would you chose the mechanical or biological arm?
I think I'm the oddball here: I would take the mechanical one. I like to tinker
...I kinda like my left hand being made of warm, soft flesh.
If it was the right hand, it would probably screw with human interaction. Meeting folks and shaking their hand with some cold simulacrum of a hand, would probably be off putting. It would still be a bit of an issue even with a left hand.
I like to tinker as well. An arm is what? 20-30 lbs? By the time cybernetic limbs are available, you'd be able to put a hell of a lot of computing power into something that size. I think a big part of my decision would be based around how hacker friendly the artificial limbs are. Is it just a black box that won't do anything other than be a hand? Is there Open Source Options(or at least a nice API), standard connections and all the other stuff that make working with consumer computers approachable? Is it like a car where all the engine management software/hardware is obfuscated, so people can't(easily) make modifications that could increase warranty claims?
I don't think I could stand have a computer strapped to my body, directly tied into my nerves, and not have that ability to use it as a computer. I don't want to have sort of interface and not be able to connect it to what I want.
On the other hand, the consumer computers I'm so fond of have the issue of malware. Folks are smart. If Limbdows has a large enough install base, people are going to spend a lot of time looking for exploits, and they will find them.
I really don't know. On reflex, I'd be all about the machine, but there's a lot of potential downsides and frustrations. When it comes to an appendage, something that is going to just work has a lot of merit, and flesh would deliver. With a cybernetic computer controlled limb... I mean, have you tried finding solid binaries compiled for ARM?
I think any sort of computerized body-augmentation device would be as closed system as can be imagined.
Here's a hypothetical: lets say you lost your non-dominant arm in some sort of accident. Now, this is the future, and you have a choice between a mechanical replacement and a cloned replacement. Both would be just as functional as your old arm in dexterity, strength, ability to sense heat, or any other metric. Would you chose the mechanical or biological arm?
I think I'm the oddball here: I would take the mechanical one. I like to tinker
but you'll have to describe what you mean, as I'm not sure what that would entail
*shrug*
Some combination of a base biological replacement outfitted with an assortment of mechanical implants. maybe flesh and blood with alloy bones for enhanced strength and durability?
but you'll have to describe what you mean, as I'm not sure what that would entail
*shrug*
Some combination of a base biological replacement outfitted with an assortment of mechanical implants. maybe flesh and blood with alloy bones for enhanced strength and durability?
Synthetic muscle, bone and tendons, with regular skin laid over the top. Basically arrange it so my muscles are always in peak condition (being artificial), but all my normal human senses still work.
Of course I think it's far more likely that we'll crack the biochemical pathways for touch and muscle development first, and figure out how to make drugs that will do that (though maybe not: apparently we have something close to no clue at all how touch is transduced by cells).
If its one thing I am waiting for its nerve regeneration therapy. I got Cerebral Palsy in lower grade and its fucked my life up in more ways the one. Imagine trying to get a job when you can't write by hand or for long times on keyboards? And being suseptible to injuries because your nerves don't move the muscles right? (Preventing you from taking any physicaly stressfull jobs).
I want that more then anything and the knowledge that it is possible but hasn't arrived yet is painfull. FUCK George W. Bush and his bullshit war on science. In fact fuck the GOP for fucking over science in the whole world really(The US accounts for a lot of the worldwide research).
It is a darn shame.
When we are closer to getting prosthetics equal to OG limbs than nerve regeneration through the use of embryonic stem cells that have so much potential, then something is definitely amiss.
Why not get a mechanical one that's better? I mean I assume it would still be more resistant to damage, but if it was just a case of mechanical being exactly the same, then I'd go biological.
But there are so many things that could make the mechanical one better in simple ways, so if they could do that, mechanical.
Skin. If they could replicate all the touch sensations, I might be willing to go along with the mechanical. But imagine if 70% of your body no longer had touch sensors, except in certain locations...
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Even if they're the same form, the materials would make them vastly different visually.
if you couldn't tell the difference between them, then I would take the mechanical. Just because its more expendable
See I think stuff like this is ultimately a dead end. It's too many proprietary systems which have to work perfectly together to be of any use at all.
I think augmented reality will pretty quickly leapfrog it - everyone keeps their own personal computer space, like a desktop or laptop is now, and the friction point is in allowing people to "share" virtual spaces. Much more solvable though, since whichever protocol works will rapidly become dominant (like the world wide web did).
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
I think it's a dead end because it's not more useful enough then what we already have to be worth jumping too. It's cool to see what people can do though.
I'd really like to see this happen
my only fear is that somebody is going to find a way to upload some kind of virus into this shared virtual space. it seems to me inevitable
and honestly, I really don't want to know what being hacked into feels like
Agreed. I'd never sign up for virtual reality if it became real. Especially in the cyberpunk/Ghost In A Shell sense.
I was talking about sunglasses/visor type systems. Not brain implants - immediate future stuff.
Isn't there someway to harness the beating heart as some sort of power source?
If anything, it'd probably be easier to use kinetic chargers or resistance from the other muscles.
What about artificial microscopic power plants that burn sugar? Our bodies already have energy in it and even if it would be less efficient people can just eat more!
Then we can make them self repairing and reproducing. :evil:
"Oh, grandma, I see you went and got a BrainBody, the robotic shell that allows you to live forever. Huh. That's cool, I guess. What's for lunch?"
clearly, our robotic arms are going to run on brain fusion electricity
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
?
There's a hidden risk with this though: it would be dangerous to have a simple reactor take whatever sugar it wanted and use it. What if you don't eat for a while? What if you eat less then you expect? Our bodies have complex feedback mechanisms to ensure we don't die of starvation despite having more then enough to eat - prosthetics pulling as much sugar as they want from your blood would be very bad.
It's only 100% internal devices you can't do this with, like pacemakers and such. For a robot arm you should just have a couple of batteries sitting in a specialized charger at home that you can trade every <x> days, or take them all with you if you're going camping or something.
My first response was biological for the same reasons stated earlier. I'd like to feel normal and pretend that horribly traumatizing accident never happened. But you'd be able to upgrade a mechanical arm with lots of neat things. I'd be awesome if they could fit in a 3D printer. I'd be able to make whatever I want on the fly, like having a green lantern ring.
If we're talking about current, non-hypothetical technology:
So long as you spend some time inside your house every day, you'd be able to keep your arm or implant charged.
...I kinda like my left hand being made of warm, soft flesh.
If it was the right hand, it would probably screw with human interaction. Meeting folks and shaking their hand with some cold simulacrum of a hand, would probably be off putting. It would still be a bit of an issue even with a left hand.
I like to tinker as well. An arm is what? 20-30 lbs? By the time cybernetic limbs are available, you'd be able to put a hell of a lot of computing power into something that size. I think a big part of my decision would be based around how hacker friendly the artificial limbs are. Is it just a black box that won't do anything other than be a hand? Is there Open Source Options(or at least a nice API), standard connections and all the other stuff that make working with consumer computers approachable? Is it like a car where all the engine management software/hardware is obfuscated, so people can't(easily) make modifications that could increase warranty claims?
I don't think I could stand have a computer strapped to my body, directly tied into my nerves, and not have that ability to use it as a computer. I don't want to have sort of interface and not be able to connect it to what I want.
On the other hand, the consumer computers I'm so fond of have the issue of malware. Folks are smart. If Limbdows has a large enough install base, people are going to spend a lot of time looking for exploits, and they will find them.
I really don't know. On reflex, I'd be all about the machine, but there's a lot of potential downsides and frustrations. When it comes to an appendage, something that is going to just work has a lot of merit, and flesh would deliver. With a cybernetic computer controlled limb... I mean, have you tried finding solid binaries compiled for ARM?
I don't actually know how those blood glucose monitors diabetic people use function, but couldn't you have something similar and have a fail-safe so when your blood sugar level drops too low it shuts off? Hell, couldn't you probably design a semi-permeable membrane that would only allow glucose to diffuse through it if there was above a certain amount of glucose on the outside? Without any intervention, the system would automatically shutdown when blood sugar was too low.
Well your blood-pressure would shoot through the roof. Sometimes literally.
So...should I get my DNA and organs copyrighted now?
You should move with all deliberate speed. A handful of biotechnical companies, pharmaceutical firms, and university researchers already hold the patents for many genes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_patent
And goddamn are there some scary precedents already.
But you can just press T to incapacitate the airport security guards and go on about your business
Yeah this would probably cause a lot of heart attacks
I want that more then anything and the knowledge that it is possible but hasn't arrived yet is painfull. FUCK George W. Bush and his bullshit war on science. In fact fuck the GOP for fucking over science in the whole world really(The US accounts for a lot of the worldwide research).
I think any sort of computerized body-augmentation device would be as closed system as can be imagined.
...
Can I get a hybrid biomechanical replacement?
but you'll have to describe what you mean, as I'm not sure what that would entail
*shrug*
Some combination of a base biological replacement outfitted with an assortment of mechanical implants. maybe flesh and blood with alloy bones for enhanced strength and durability?
Synthetic muscle, bone and tendons, with regular skin laid over the top. Basically arrange it so my muscles are always in peak condition (being artificial), but all my normal human senses still work.
Of course I think it's far more likely that we'll crack the biochemical pathways for touch and muscle development first, and figure out how to make drugs that will do that (though maybe not: apparently we have something close to no clue at all how touch is transduced by cells).
I don't need the flesh over it either, just straight metal
When we are closer to getting prosthetics equal to OG limbs than nerve regeneration through the use of embryonic stem cells that have so much potential, then something is definitely amiss.