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haters only

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Posts

  • MereHappenstanceMereHappenstance Registered User regular
    I hate that I can't leave the bathroom for more than 10 minutes.

    Sit down, read some posts, few minutes later. *gurglegurglegurgle*

    "whelp, back to the trenches."

  • AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    Pharezon wrote:
    Here is a helpful guide to privilege:
    What is privilege?
    It's not the dictionary definition. (Which, for the record, is: a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most: the privileges of the very rich.)
    But it does get close. In a social activist-type context, "privilege" refers to a set of advantages that groups favoured by society receive, just by being in that group.
    Think of it like this: upon birth, members of the privileged group get an invisible jetpack. They're so used to having this jetpack that they don't notice it at all, even though they use it to help them get past daily obstacles. For everyone who's not in the privileged group, the jetpacks are pretty damned obvious. The thing is, if you had the pack on, you'd never notice unless you started looking for it.
    This is privilege: benefits or advantages that someone receives by being part of a majority group. (I am referring to a power majority, not necessarily a numerical majority.)
    Privilege is very dependent on culture. For example, a white person living in America is privileged, because they are part of an ethnic majority. But if the same person moved to China, the list of privileges they would have would be drastically different. Similarly, a Han Chinese person living in China would have very different privileges if that person moved to a country where the Han Chinese were an ethnic minority.
    tl;dr: Privilege is a societal phenomenon, where members of a certain, favoured group have advantages that non-members do not have.
    There are many lists on the internet that detail the specific kinds of privilege different groups have. They are generally written as if a member of the privileged group was saying them, but are often compiled by the non-privileged group.
    Who is privileged?
    Generally speaking? Groups which have held power over the country for a long time, and those that society views as "normal". In other words:
    racial majorities
    men
    straight people
    cisgendered people
    neurotypical people (i.e. not on the autism spectrum and without mental disorders)
    able-bodied people (people without disabilities)
    sexual people (people who experience sexual attraction)
    religious majorities (if applicable)
    the rich
    the well-educated
    middle-upper class
    I'm sure there are more that I've not thought of.
    Lots of people are privileged in some way. In fact, I'd wager that most of us are. Remember, though, you can't 'cancel out' privilege. Being privileged in one area and not another doesn't balance out and magically get rid of someone's privilege.

    Being privileged is not an insult. Being privileged doesn't mean that you cannot be discriminated against, or picked on, or insulted...
    ...but being privileged does mean that you have put up with a lot less crap than people who aren't privileged in the same way. And this is a very important thing to keep in mind. This goes double for those of us who are not privileged in one way, but privileged in another. Always, always, always remember to check your privilege.
    When people start denying their privilege, that's when things get ugly. When people ask you to check your privilege they're not being insulting, it's generally just an attempt to ask you to recognize that you might not be as qualified to speak on some topics.
    Another effect that privilege has is its normalizing effect on the experiences of the privileged, and its othering effect on the experiences of the marginalized. Things that the privileged group experience are the "template" for what society sees as normal: for example, the "normal" or "standard" human being in America could arguably be a white, middle-class, educated straight cis man. Those are all traits of privileged groups. Minorities or other people who don't have those same privileges are seen as the "other", forming a barrier between the privileged and the non-privileged. This has massive consequences; off the top of my head, one of them is the use of this non-privileged identity as the sole defining characteristic of a character in media (if you know TVTropes, think of tropes like The Chick or the Magical Native American). This is like putting a minority character in the spotlight and going "hey, look! Isn't this person strange?" Needless to say, this is very offensive.

    Intersectionality and Passing Privilege
    What do I mean by "intersecting privilege"? Well, as I've said above, privilege comes in many forms and in many different areas. Sometimes, these areas overlap. A rich man, belonging to a racial majority, benefits from many more privileges than a poor woman belonging to a racial minority. But when you start having different combinations of privilege, this starts to get a little tricky.
    Essentially, you can be non-privileged in one way, but privileged in many others. The net effect is, therefore, positive: you are disadvantaged in some aspects but have an advantage in many more. This is why, for example, men can say that some women do better than them. This is true, but completely misses the point: that the majority of women are not, and - because of privilege - don't have access to the same kinds of resources or opportunities.
    For example, an upper-middle class person benefits from the intersection of privileges from being financially secure, being part of the middle class and presumably being well-educated. If the person is also part of a racial majority, that person benefits from another form of privilege. In short, this person enjoys many different intersecting privileges (class, financial, education and ethnic majority privileges).

    Passing Privilege (Thanks to throwingExceptions for help on this bit.)
    Quite a lot of how people interact with other people is dependent on perception. In fact, sometimes what people think you are is more important than what you actually are. Passing privilege stems from that. If people think that you are a member of a privileged group, they will treat you the same way, and so you have access to the same advantages.
    For example, a closeted gay man might be able to pass very easily for a straight man. Therefore, he'd have passing straight privilege so long as he does not come out. Of course, the major problem with passing privilege is that it's all based on keeping the assumption intact. (For example, the gay man's "straight assumption" - he is assumed to be heterosexual.) Passing privilege can happen without any move towards acquiring it specifically, or by intentionally hiding or obfuscating the truth, or by outright lying about it. Possessing passing privilege is sometimes a major barrier, as fear of losing this privilege can sometimes form an obstacle to confronting the truth about yourself.
    Passing privilege can also be described as "conditional privilege". Conditional privilege makes it somewhat clearer that this type of privilege depends on a certain condition being maintained; this conditional privilege is gone once people no longer perceive you as part of the majority group.
    As far as I'm aware, term itself comes from mixed race people who could "pass" for white, and so could enjoy white privilege - provided that assumption was never lost.

    SUMMARY:
    Privilege is a social phenomenon, where members of a favoured group get advantages that other groups don't get. Privilege comes in many forms and in many different areas. Privilege does not cancel out; being privileged in one area does not remove privilege in another. It is possible to benefit from more than one form of privilege at the same time. If people think that you are a member of a privileged group, even if you aren't, you have "passing privilege".
    Last but not least: one thing that is universal to ALL privilege lists is that the privileged group never has to be aware that they are privileged. Knowing is the first step to dismantling this whole unfair system.

    Links:
    What is male privilege?
    Male Privilege checklist
    A very, very good collection of info on privilege
    Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack (White Privilege)
    Cis Privilege Checklist
    Straight Privilege

  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Nicolas Cage probably doesn't think he's rich

    but he is

    wandering on
  • ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    STop posting that privilege post man I already know that shit and I have to scroll past it and UGH THE PAIN IN MY FINGER

  • ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    edited January 2012
    wandering wrote:
    Nicolas Cage probably doesn't think he's rich either

    that doesn't mean he's not.

    This is the worst response

    WELL YOU SEE ON A GLOBAL SCALE YOU ARE RICH

    Too bad my life does not exist on a global scale

    Buttlord on
  • PharezonPharezon Struggle is an illusion. Victory is in the Qun.Registered User regular
    Buttlord wrote:
    STop posting that privilege post man I already know that shit and I have to scroll past it and UGH THE PAIN IN MY FINGER

    8->

    jkZziGc.png
  • ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    Pharezon wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    STop posting that privilege post man I already know that shit and I have to scroll past it and UGH THE PAIN IN MY FINGER

    8->

    Truly equivalent to the pain of oppression

    Just sayin'

  • ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    Realtalk post the privilege post over and over again please

  • KadithKadith Registered User regular
    i put in a negative value to count for my student loans each year and it broke it

    zkHcp.jpg
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    Buttlord wrote:
    wandering wrote:
    Nicolas Cage probably doesn't think he's rich either

    that doesn't mean he's not.

    This is the worst response

    WELL YOU SEE ON A GLOBAL SCALE YOU ARE RICH

    Too bad my life does not exist on a global scale
    all I'm saying is you're talking with strangers all across the world in an air conditioned room and outside you've got your own personal gas-powered chariot that can take you anywhere in the country

  • KadithKadith Registered User regular
    wandering wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    wandering wrote:
    Nicolas Cage probably doesn't think he's rich either

    that doesn't mean he's not.

    This is the worst response

    WELL YOU SEE ON A GLOBAL SCALE YOU ARE RICH

    Too bad my life does not exist on a global scale
    all I'm saying is you're talking with strangers all across the world in an air conditioned room and outside you've got your own personal gas-powered chariot that can take you anywhere in the country

    well 1 out of 3 ain't bad

    zkHcp.jpg
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    shank if you give me money you can say it is charity

    you rich people love tax write-offs right

    tax write-offs, caviar, and solid gold jet pack polo

    7656367.jpg
  • godmodegodmode Southeast JapanRegistered User regular
    wandering wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    wandering wrote:
    Nicolas Cage probably doesn't think he's rich either

    that doesn't mean he's not.

    This is the worst response

    WELL YOU SEE ON A GLOBAL SCALE YOU ARE RICH

    Too bad my life does not exist on a global scale
    all I'm saying is you're talking with strangers all across the world in an air conditioned room and outside you've got your own personal gas-powered chariot that can take you anywhere in the country

    Technically, I'm borrowing a chariot that belongs to my bank.

  • ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    wandering wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    wandering wrote:
    Nicolas Cage probably doesn't think he's rich either

    that doesn't mean he's not.

    This is the worst response

    WELL YOU SEE ON A GLOBAL SCALE YOU ARE RICH

    Too bad my life does not exist on a global scale
    all I'm saying is you're talking with strangers all across the world in an air conditioned room and outside you've got your own personal gas-powered chariot that can take you anywhere in the country

    ON A GLOBAL SCALE and similar relativistic response are asinine

    "You don't have it as bad as a sweatshop worker, so shut up!"

    No, fuck you, that's horseshit

  • TefTef Registered User regular
    TLB if you write screenplays about the amazing and exciting life I lead, I will buy you a jet

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

    bit.ly/2XQM1ke
  • JacquesCousteauJacquesCousteau Registered User regular
    wandering wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    wandering wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    Pharezon wrote:
    Also I hate everyone who does not understand the concept of privilege or denies having it when they clearly do.

    Look I am a straight white rich cisgendered Christian man in America

    I'm the one being oppressed here

    (This is a joke, also I'm only most of those things see if you can guess which I'm not)
    if you think you aren't rich you are wrong

    I wish I was rich
    this will make you feel richer:

    http://www.globalrichlist.com/

    I can be an ER DVD boxset for $30?! Sold!

    steam_sig.png
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    @tef deal

    The Lovely Bastard on
    7656367.jpg
  • godmodegodmode Southeast JapanRegistered User regular
    TLB, if you go to PAX East, I'll buy you some alcohol. (I mean, if you're 21. I don't actually know)

  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    dogg I am olllld

    27

    but I will not go to a pax we have discussed this

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  • KadithKadith Registered User regular
    "at least we're not _____(third world country)"

    is the most cop out argument against improving shit in 'merica that one can make

    and i hate it

    wandering is reminding me of it

    zkHcp.jpg
  • godmodegodmode Southeast JapanRegistered User regular
    Oh, I must've missed that discussion. Sorry, bro.

    But I still got mad respect for you, so if we ever run into each other, remind me that I owe you alcohol.

  • ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    Basically your whole "Well globally speaking you're rich" reminds me of a parent going "There are starving children in India, eat this shitty goulash!"

    And no fuck you the fact that worse shit is happening around the world does not change the fact that on a much more immediate level I'm not in a good position at all

  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    Posting the privilege thing over and over again will not make someone who did not read it the first time read it.

    I mean if you want to raise awareness for it that's cool and all, but it's going to get to far more people if you have a conservation about it rather than text dumping stuff and everyone saying yay.

  • ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    Kadith wrote:
    "at least we're not _____(third world country)"

    is the most cop out argument against improving shit in 'merica that one can make

    and i hate it

    wandering is reminding me of it

    Fun fact

    The UN passed a resolution on the rights of children not too long ago

    For the longest time the only members of the UN that didn't sign it were the US and fucking Somalia

    Recently, one of them signed it. Guess which one (Hint it was fucking Somalia)

  • TefTef Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    It's not if it stops your whiny bitching

    edit: mentioning global poverty I mean

    Tef on
    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

    bit.ly/2XQM1ke
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    godmode wrote:
    Oh, I must've missed that discussion. Sorry, bro.

    But I still got mad respect for you, so if we ever run into each other, remind me that I owe you alcohol.

    oh I will

    and paths will probably cost

    we east coast after all

    7656367.jpg
  • AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    JCIXgl.jpg

  • ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    Antimatter wrote:
    JCIXgl.jpg
    Wanna meet that 'mon

  • TefTef Registered User regular
    I liked that privilige article.

    Usually I find when we want to talk about privilige, I feel like I'm under attack and have to defend myself but that article did a great job of explaining it in a non-accusatory manner

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

    bit.ly/2XQM1ke
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    For the record I am in favor of making America better and raising taxes on more-rich Americans and using the money to help less-rich Americans and stuff

  • BugBoyBugBoy boy.EXE has stopped functioning. only bugs remainRegistered User regular
    I dislike that it used tvtropes as a source

  • TallahasseerielTallahasseeriel Registered User regular
    Tef wrote:
    I liked that privilige article.

    Usually I find when we want to talk about privilige, I feel like I'm under attack and have to defend myself but that article did a great job of explaining it in a non-accusatory manner
    I just read some of it.

    It sure sobered me up.

    I don't usually feel under attack so much as stupid and depressed when it comes up.

  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    Tef wrote:
    I liked that privilige article.

    Usually I find when we want to talk about privilige, I feel like I'm under attack and have to defend myself but that article did a great job of explaining it in a non-accusatory manner

    This is very common and I felt it too until it might have been tfs who posted a similar link. It's extremely important not to feel you're under attack when someone discusses privilage, because that just makes you defensive, and people are more likely to be stubborn and bullheaded when defensive.

  • TallahasseerielTallahasseeriel Registered User regular
    Just makes me think about how I've said and done stupid things before and regret them.

  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    Everyone has said and done stupid things before. The fact you can realize they're stupid and have regret makes the all the difference.

  • PharezonPharezon Struggle is an illusion. Victory is in the Qun.Registered User regular
    Blake T wrote:
    Posting the privilege thing over and over again will not make someone who did not read it the first time read it.

    I mean if you want to raise awareness for it that's cool and all, but it's going to get to far more people if you have a conservation about it rather than text dumping stuff and everyone saying yay.

    You could try having not having the attention span of a baby.

    jkZziGc.png
  • TallahasseerielTallahasseeriel Registered User regular
    I have a long lived bad habit of beating myself up over things I can't change. :P

  • DichotomyDichotomy Registered User regular
    also you know people were conversing about it

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  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    You could try not missing the point.

  • HellaJeffHellaJeff FAB FRESH RAIIINBOOWWWWWRegistered User regular
    Everyone has said and done stupid things before. The fact you can realize they're stupid and have regret makes the all the difference.

    interacting with oneself is one of my definitions of sentience! where is that science thread...

This discussion has been closed.