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SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
edited January 2012 in Artist's Corner
Drawing a webcomic as a way of forcing myself to work on my art and various adobe skills. Also the site as a whole is a nice little outlet for the mixed media I'm involved in. Like or dislike at will and feel free to comment. Here are the first 3, sorry about some of the art being illustrator brush whoring I'm just getting to grips with it.


0HZnW.jpg


eOYHo.jpg


n1MAc.jpg


Tell me what you think, just remember it's very early days and I'm largely doing this for practice and to learn a bit so don't be too offended.

[Edited to hold back on image spam]

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SaintElmosWire on
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Posts

  • squidbunnysquidbunny Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Ramius wrote:
    7 ) No Site-Whoring
    Site-whoring, plugging, or advertising of your personal Website, product, or Webcomic any kind will not be tolerated. You can include a link to your site/gallery in your sig, but do not start a new thread simply directing people to your site.

    If you want crits on your comic we're happy to oblige but post the actual pages/strips here in your OP.

    squidbunny on
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  • DMACDMAC Moderator mod
    Yes, either rework your post or this thread will be closed. We're not here to funnel traffic to your site.

  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Also while I'm a firm believer in the idea that nothing is really off limits when it comes to comedy, your Hitler joke is pretty f'ing offensive.

    That being said, you have an interesting art style so you should post more work in the thread.


    Arch wrote: »

    I never expected this burn from captain bushmeat
  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    squidbunny wrote:
    Ramius wrote:
    7 ) No Site-Whoring
    Site-whoring, plugging, or advertising of your personal Website, product, or Webcomic any kind will not be tolerated. You can include a link to your site/gallery in your sig, but do not start a new thread simply directing people to your site.

    If you want crits on your comic we're happy to oblige but post the actual pages/strips here in your OP.

    Roger that, will rework the post in a moment.

    MvViV.jpg
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Also while I'm a firm believer in the idea that nothing is really off limits when it comes to comedy, your Hitler joke is pretty f'ing offensive.

  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    I'll take the Hitler one off here if people aren't too happy about seeing it. I don't mean to shove it in anyone's faces, just popped into my head while playing Star Wars.

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  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    I'll take the Hitler one off here if people aren't too happy about seeing it. I don't mean to shove it in anyone's faces, just popped into my head while playing Star Wars.

    I'm not saying take it down or anything... I want to rephrase in case I came off like an ass or anything. I really do like your art style. It's unique.

    Video game comics can be good too, and I like your take on Skyrim and Wow. It's just that you have two relatively clean comics minus a little language and then BAM! HITLER KILLS JEWISH KIDS!

    You should think about what kind of audience you want to reach, and what kind of material you want to associate your name with. If you want to do jokes about the holocaust that's fine, go for it, a lot of people will probably laugh, but at the same time you might find that the one person that just read through your entire archive and saw 10 really good comics and then ended on mass genocide ended up not putting the link in his/her bookmarks.

    That' just my .02 though, so by all means ignore it : )

    My only art crit is with your choice of word bubbles. they're a little hard to read. You might want to try out some different fonts/sizes. Also, try not to have a lot of font size changing in a strip. It's one thing when a key word or two are bolded, but when it changes back and forth between bold and regular and the font size changes it gets harder to read. Also Also, try having a uniform line width for the bubbles.

    They way you have it makes it more difficult for the eyes to naturally move left to right. I had to go back and forth to take in the text which makes me concentrate to get the joke, which causes me to forget the joke.

    What kind of brushes are you using? I like the way your colors look more painterly than just a color fill.


    Arch wrote: »

    I never expected this burn from captain bushmeat
  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User

    I take your point on shifting gears fast with bird seed to Hitler, still deciding on an exact tone for the whole thing. But I do want to be able to say virtually anything I want, so perhaps going balls out early is good (Could be wrong)

    You're also exactly right about the bubbles and font. I couldn't quite decide what font to go with and was initially struggling with the pen tool for decent curves and that's why they ended out harsh and square. The bubble's themselves have grown on me though, the text will likely change.

    As for the brushes, It's mostly ink sets and some watercolor free downloaded ones. Often I use darken blending and slightly lower opacity to let stuff layer better. I'm trying to get in the habit of wherever I put a big color filled section, putting in another just over it without a stroke and letting it be two toned or shadowed. I just take the original color and darken it a tiny bit.

    Sorry if any of that is doesn't make sense or is obvious, writing it down is just helping me look at the style a bit closer and think what I want.

    Thanks for the feedback :D I'll post more as I draw them, will try and fix a lot of that by the next strip. o7

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  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    While I'm not Jewish,
    I do want to be able to say virtually anything I want, so perhaps going balls out early is good (Could be wrong)

    You can say what ever you want, the internet is a highway for free expression. Keep in mind, however, that your content will dictate what kind of audience you attract or turn away.

  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    You can say what ever you want, the internet is a highway for free expression. Keep in mind, however, that your content will dictate what kind of audience you attract or turn away.

    True, so from here on let's assume that I'm looking for an audience who would be willing to go with the Hitler/SWTOR joke, but that the tone of the comic overall won't always be that level of tasteless.

    MvViV.jpg
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    Perhaps you could make it tasteless in that sense but also funny? Because right now you are leaning heavily on one side of that spectrum.
    In fact, I think there probably is a funny joke in there, but you didn't nail it.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    edited January 2012
    You can say what ever you want, the internet is a highway for free expression. Keep in mind, however, that your content will dictate what kind of audience you attract or turn away.

    True, so from here on let's assume that I'm looking for an audience who would be willing to go with the Hitler/SWTOR joke, but that the tone of the comic overall won't always be that level of tasteless.

    You may want to head over to the LICD forums for pointers then. Sohmer is a master of taming and encouraging the crowds that would find that sort of joke amusing.

    I'm well aware of the possible hilarity using Godwin's Law and whatnot, but running over children as a hidden back story to the holocaust might not be as hilarious to any audience as you might think. People use Hitler and the Nazis in jokes all the time on the internet, but it's really all about context. Here you are implying support of the murder of children through careless driving and the extermination of a people via your context. You are making it seem like a game, something positive in our society, and something that is achievement-worthy. That's probably not your intent, but that is what you are conveying here.

    If it is your intent, well then that's something else entirely.

    Edit: Sentry hit it right on. This is salvageable in some fashion, but you have to be very careful with context when working with highly offensive material.

    Enc on
  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    edited January 2012
    It didn't quite come out the way I envisioned it I must admit.
    Sentry wrote:
    In fact, I think there probably is a funny joke in there, but you didn't nail it.

    Could you elaborate, like what you think might have helped?

    SaintElmosWire on
    MvViV.jpg
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    It didn't quite come out the way I envisioned it I must admit.
    Sentry wrote:
    In fact, I think there probably is a funny joke in there, but you didn't nail it.

    Could you elaborate, like what you think might have helped?

    I am of the opinion anything can be funny, provided it's... you know... funny. If the joke isn't working but is at its core something you can build on, which i think this one MIGHT be, then the reason it's not working is your delivery. For one thing, you can probably do this same joke without it being as tasteless and offensive as it is, understated is almost always funnier anyway... it's the difference between David Cross and Larry the Cable Guy. The last panel is unnecessary, the first is wordy and awkward, the second works but gives no context for the sudden shift in the third. It's overall disjointed and somewhat nonsensical, even with the context of being a SWTOR joke, this is on top of the tasteless subject matter.
    I would just try again to be honest. I think you COULD have something funny here... especially as a play on the "kill this" "fetch that" nature of the quests in MMO's and how people just blindly do them... but like I said, this one just didn't work at all.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    The comic kind of goes hand in hand with this post that is under it on the site, I'm not sure if it helps but it gave it context to me. Though the argument then is do I want my comic to be stand alone rather than needing the trappings of a site and news posts. Which I guess I do, so I should work at that :/ Thanks for the notes.

    This was the news post with it:
    But seriously folks, what happened to us? For YEARS (and I'm talking near on a decade) the MMO community raged about kill ten of X quests. Now I feel as if I'm afraid to shoot something in SW:TOR because, in the immortal words of Penny Arcade, its motionless corpse might ask me to do its fucking math homework.

    And yet when one of those dreaded yellow lines pops up on my screen, I know I must. There is only static on our vent channel until someone plucks up the courage to say, "Okay, we just need fourteen more of these."

    Apparently the bonuses even have the audacity to vanish if you finish the mission they're attached to. This means that we often stop playing to hunt down random people through industrial complexes. We willingly ignore mission objectives and FULLY VOICED conversations to go kill ten of X. I feel something has gone terribly wrong and it's our fault.

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  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    Now I can't decide if I should take it down or not xD

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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    The comic kind of goes hand in hand with this post that is under it on the site, I'm not sure if it helps but it gave it context to me. Though the argument then is do I want my comic to be stand alone rather than needing the trappings of a site and news posts. Which I guess I do, so I should work at that :/ Thanks for the notes.

    This was the news post with it:
    But seriously folks, what happened to us? For YEARS (and I'm talking near on a decade) the MMO community raged about kill ten of X quests. Now I feel as if I'm afraid to shoot something in SW:TOR because, in the immortal words of Penny Arcade, its motionless corpse might ask me to do its fucking math homework.

    And yet when one of those dreaded yellow lines pops up on my screen, I know I must. There is only static on our vent channel until someone plucks up the courage to say, "Okay, we just need fourteen more of these."

    Apparently the bonuses even have the audacity to vanish if you finish the mission they're attached to. This means that we often stop playing to hunt down random people through industrial complexes. We willingly ignore mission objectives and FULLY VOICED conversations to go kill ten of X. I feel something has gone terribly wrong and it's our fault.

    I'm reminded of the Dickwolves joke, which probably would have been a better tangent to illustrate this. For example, you have your characters (not Adolf) playing star wars and they kill a guy and get the bonus "Holocaust, kill 6million more of this alien species) then have a disgusted reaction shot. The comic as it stands seems to be opposite of your intention via the webpost.

  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    I think I'll try salvage it sometime rather than scrap it entirely. Part of what I love about webcomics is that they can grow and change and don't have to be perfect from the get go.

    As for the Dickwolves thing, I was on the "Stunning return to form" side of that argument. Though that is not to say that my strip up there is handled the same.

    Again thanks for the help :) I'll have another one up here by Friday and see what I've learnt xD

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  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    edited January 2012
    On a less holocausty note...

    The human characters currently don't have dark/harsh outlining strokes. They do have edge strokes but they are just slightly darker flesh tones. I can't decide if they should have dark outlines a bit like the birds. What do you guys think?

    SaintElmosWire on
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  • farbekriegfarbekrieg Registered User regular
    i think as a rough idea the hitler joke works, because all of us at least have considered doing horrible things for 'cheevos', and judging by the number of responses you got from it shows that it will generate clicks... but from who if you slap it on your site.

    I think at least part of what is offending people is you are framing your joke as hilter is just a normal guy, and it can be construed as apologist which is not a group you want to be pidgeon holed into.

    Another problem is with your story telling, after the 3rd panel the 4th panel becomes obvious therefore superfluous, your joke was executed and done at that point

    Further the construction of the 3rd panel is not conveying your punchline well. First i thought it was referencing xbox cheevos and not swtor, you need to draw the questline out better so it is more easily understood by the gaming community, so your text and color should immediately bring to mind tor. It should be above his head and he should be looking up at it, pushing the caricature of hilter should also be pushed for fun as an artists but also to show he is a total dick and more expressive, horns, demonic eyes, there is a ton of 30s propaganda you can look at to get ideas.


  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    How about this for a rework of the hitler one:

    Panel 1: A classic star wars group entering an area with the codex entry pop up and area name, "Jewish Quarter."

    panel 2: Smuggler says to Trooper, "Damn it, I told you not to invite him. He's gonna make us do every bonus mission here." Standing just to the side of them is caricatured, and very happy looking, Hitler in a jedi robe with two red light sabers.

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  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    What is it about the hollocaust that you find so funny?

  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Yeah there's not a lot of humour to be found in the holocaust, it was generally a pretty bleak affair.
    Hitler jokes are generally best done if you humanize him, like having him struggling with a baking recipe or selling stuff on ebay. Hitler being evil is kind of expected.

    Mustang on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Enjoy your Neo Nazi fan mail, because that's the kind of people who will keep reading after you post it.

    MagicToaster on
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Mustang wrote:
    Yeah there's not a lot of humour to be found in the holocaust, it was generally a pretty bleak affair.
    Hitler jokes are generally best done if you humanize him, like having him struggling with a baking recipe or selling stuff on ebay. Hitler being evil is kind of expected.

    Yeah, this. When Nazi humor works it's not about the holocaust or what the Nazi's did, but usually about employing Godwin's Law (inevitable bringing of Nazi's into an argument), playing off of cultural perceptions of evil to the extreme (such as the Seinfeld soup Nazi), or poking fun at the media itself employing Nazi imagery (such as Downfall videos, the humor isn't because it's Hitler, but because the scene was so hamfistedly acted).

    These instances of humor do not bring in the holocaust, actual Nazis and the acts they performed, murder, death, etc. It's using the Nazi cultural stereotype, not the Nazi's themselves. Magic Toaster is right, what you are doing here is essentially the same as poking fun at an entire generation of people put to death and the only people who find that funny are the folks that support it.

    Conversely, look at the Dickwolves comic. The humor there is not about rape, but about the perception of players making callous decisions while rape occurs unchecked. It was (arguably) as well done as you could do this kind of joke and it still caused a lot of fallout over it with a comic as large and popular as Penny Arcade. I just wouldn't go there if I was trying to attract any reader base unless I had a solid base and a clear joke that wasn't going to be misconstrued as insensitive to one of the worst events in human history.

  • .red.red Registered User
    if you want an idea how to incorporate nazi's in a bit more of an acceptable manner, look at a web comic like Hipster Hitler. But the stuff you posted may very well dictate the crowd you're going to bring, as it has been mentioned numerous times above. It's very distasteful.

    In a sense it reminds me of that Nazi XBL achievement pic, which was just as bad.

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  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    edited January 2012
    Ok while now that you've all had a run with the nazi thing (Which did not work in retrospect I'll agree and was in bad taste, sorry for that)

    Here's the latest comic. I've changed the font and bubbles but not the general style. I know it's a little wordsy but how does it look?

    iQYmP.jpg

    SaintElmosWire on
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  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    The bubbles and font are SO MUCH better in that last comic... It took me a minute to get the joke because I forgot Fincher did Alien3.

    Still, this was a good comic.


    Arch wrote: »

    I never expected this burn from captain bushmeat
  • brokecrackerbrokecracker Registered User regular
    The style is fine and I think it is working for you but that font only really works in that last word bubble.

    Something more readable for the main copy would work better, then if someone is speaking with malace drop in the scratchy font for effect, but legibility is always best. Form follows function.

  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    Something more readable for the main copy would work better, then if someone is speaking with malace drop in the scratchy font for effect, but legibility is always best. Form follows function.

    That's quite a good idea, thanks. Does anyone know a font a bit like the standard Penny Arcade one? I find that nice and readable but still comicish.
    The bubbles and font are SO MUCH better in that last comic... It took me a minute to get the joke because I forgot Fincher did Alien3.

    Still, this was a good comic.

    Thank you, I think this is the sort of feel I want to go for overall :)

    Next one tomorrow, will see if I can polish up the fonts and bubbles a bit more.

    MvViV.jpg
  • .red.red Registered User
    The bubbles and font are SO MUCH better in that last comic... It took me a minute to get the joke because I forgot Fincher did Alien3.

    Still, this was a good comic.

    agreed with this; goes seamlessly with the art style you've got.

    pasig.png
  • brokecrackerbrokecracker Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Something more readable for the main copy would work better, then if someone is speaking with malace drop in the scratchy font for effect, but legibility is always best. Form follows function.

    That's quite a good idea, thanks. Does anyone know a font a bit like the standard Penny Arcade one? I find that nice and readable but still comicish.



    Penny Arcade uses Blambot Casual, from http://www.blambot.com they are a great resource but I would keep away from using the same exact font. Find something that you think is...you.

    brokecracker on
  • squidbunnysquidbunny Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Ironically he's using Ashcan (I think), a Nate Piekos (Blambot) font, which actually I don't really mind here -- I think it suits the lineart fairly well.

    This is my favorite one from you so far. :^:

    squidbunny on
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  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    edited January 2012
    Here's the newest. I stuck with the font because it's slightly haphazard like the art. (And yes it's Ashcan)

    M9MO5.jpg

    I'm not too sure the frames work but it was getting late and I like to finish things.

    Oh and this is what the ill fated hitler joke turned into, since I didn't want to have a gaping hole:
    2Vcs9.jpg

    Thanks for the help and feedback all, I think it's really helped.

    SaintElmosWire on
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  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Ha!

    I like what you did with the Hitler joke.


    Arch wrote: »

    I never expected this burn from captain bushmeat
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    seriously, that was significantly funnier then the actual hitler comic.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • farbekriegfarbekrieg Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    i think you might need a sound effect on that last comic, people not familiar with tor might not know how new creatures are added to your codex.

    edit: yes i know there is blood splatter but it is easily missed

    farbekrieg on
  • SaintElmosWireSaintElmosWire Registered User
    farbekrieg wrote:
    i think you might need a sound effect on that last comic, people not familiar with tor might not know how new creatures are added to your codex.

    edit: yes i know there is blood splatter but it is easily missed

    I did actually consider this when I was drawing it. A bang for the shot and a ping for the codex entry, but wasn't sure at the time. Looking at it now I think I might add it, yeah.

    MvViV.jpg
  • MrDelishMrDelish Registered User regular
    I think the comics are hilarious but the font you're using just turns me completely off.

  • melting_dollmelting_doll Registered User regular
    "Have you tried that re Star Wars one?" threw me off because I had no idea what "one" she was talking about. Try replacing it with "game" if you want to appeal to and make any sense to people who don't necessarily play it.

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