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Ravnica Resurgence: Magic the Gathering

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    WuShockWuShock Lawful Good South BrownbackistanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    What I've grabbed so far: Thought Scour (natch), Unsummon, and Faithless Looting, and I'm sure we'll see some more utility 1-drops once the full set is revealed. For right now, here's my Instant/Sorceries list:

    Thought Scour (mill/card draw)
    Unsummon (bounce)
    Faithless Looting (card draw/fuel for Runechanter's Pike)
    Izzet Charm (2-drop)
    Think Twice (2-drop)
    Cyclonic Rift (2-drop)
    Syncopate/Dissipate/Counterflux (2+ drop, counterspell)

    Even using 2-drops to power NE you're no worse than par (3 mana for 3/4, etc.), and like I said, I expect another good 1-drop or two out of the new set.

    (edited for power/toughness derp)

    WuShock on
    Twixxo wrote:
    WuShock is the best
    He is the very bestest
    I wish I was him

    rx9e87jbbz0w.png

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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    WuShock wrote: »
    Looking over Nivmagus Elemental, I'm convinced it's going to take Delver and somehow make it even more annoying. It will be a regular thing to have it do 5 damage on turn 2.

    Turn 1: Land, Nivmagus Elemental
    Turn 2: Land, fire two 1-drop cantrips to buff it +4/+4, swing for 5 (15)
    Turn 3: Land, cantrip, swing for 7 (8)
    Turn 4: Land, cantrip, swing for lethal.

    It doesn't need a degenerate combo (although I agree, there's gotta be one out there). It's a 1-drop that becomes, effectively, a 2-drop 3/3, a 3-drop 5/5, a 4-drop 7/7 and so on and so forth.

    Yes, it's vulnerable to removal. So is any non-hexproof/shroud creature. Delver took over the format being a 1-drop 3/2. This is a 1-drop that gets +2/+2 counters from any cantrip in your deck.

    I've already drawn up a U/R Delver decklist with NE and Vexing Devil. I'm going to start proxying that sucker now. I think we'll end up calling it F*** You. It's going to be so consistant it'll be sickening.

    Delver really only took over the format because it had the backup of Mana Leak, Snapcaster, and Vapor Snag. It's losing two of those spells and doesn't seem to be getting a decent replacement for Mana Leak.

    Nivmagus is vulnerable to removal, but the problem is that you're sinking all your eggs in one basket. If you cast a Snapcaster and it gets killed, you still get the trigger, so you still get card advantage. If that Elemental gets killed in your play, you have nothing left, no cards in hand, no permanents except lands. That's super fragile. And it doesn't even need a real kill spell either, an Unsummon will reset him and you're stuck with a 1/2 and whatever you topdeck.

    It's good, and it will be especially good in an instant-heavy deck, but I don't think it will be "broken" in any format. It will be at its best in Legacy, I suspect, granting value through your opponent's Force of Wills.

    Terrendos on
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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    looks like we sold our black lotus

    we have a mox sapphire for 3k though

    we have/had a full, mint condition set of Unlimited that one of our regulars sold to us ages ago, it's mostly on the ebay store

    that i'm not linking

    you don't get to know what my store is

    Buttlord on
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    WuShockWuShock Lawful Good South BrownbackistanRegistered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Delver really only took over the format because it had the backup of Mana Leak, Snapcaster, and Vapor Snag. It's losing both of those spells and doesn't seem to be getting decent replacements.

    Nivmagus is vulnerable to removal, but the problem is that you're sinking all your eggs in one basket. If you cast a Snapcaster and it gets killed, you still get the trigger, so you still get card advantage. If that Elemental gets killed in your play, you have nothing left, no cards in hand, no permanents except lands. That's super fragile. And it doesn't even need a real kill spell either, an Unsummon will reset him and you're stuck with a 1/2 and whatever you topdeck.

    It's good, and it will be especially good in an instant-heavy deck, but I don't think it will be "broken" in any format. It will be at its best in Legacy, I suspect, granting value through your opponent's Force of Wills.

    I disagree, I have four baskets: Delver, NE, Devil, and I'm still including a full set of Snapcaster Mage (and Runechanter's Pike). In composition it's very much like a current U/W deck, except you're replacing Geist of Saint Traft with something much faster. Maybe if there's a quality flier I drop Devil for it (the Restoration Angel role), but considering that NE works with all of the spells you would use in a Delver deck anyway, I don't see this as anything other than a strict upgrade.

    Twixxo wrote:
    WuShock is the best
    He is the very bestest
    I wish I was him

    rx9e87jbbz0w.png

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    WuShockWuShock Lawful Good South BrownbackistanRegistered User regular
    BTW, that example I gave was just the worst-case scenario of how quick it could kill. Proper play with it will be, I'm sure, like a current Delver deck. You can't charge blindly ahead with it (and, as I usually play Green, I am wont to do that), but NE gives you a much faster option than Geist.

    Twixxo wrote:
    WuShock is the best
    He is the very bestest
    I wish I was him

    rx9e87jbbz0w.png

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    The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    Lacking the swords + mana leak for cover I think UW Delver is pretty weak, but UR delver is still a very viable deck. It's just not broke anymore, like @Terrendos said.

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'm not saying it's not a deck, I'm just saying it's not as good as you think it is.

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    admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    UW or UWR midrange might be a thing. Geist of Saint Traft is still a great creature and Resto Angel/Runechanter's Pike still exist.

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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I think there's going to be a "board wipe" deck with Devastation Tide, Terminus, Mizzium Mortars, Supreme Verdict, and Cyclonic Rift. Never let your opponents have permanents.

    Land Tamiyo once things are clear and get her ultimate to Cyclonic Rift every turn.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Hey Tran I have another rules question.

    I've heard that Ratchet bomb with no counters on it can kill flipped werewolves because they technically have no CMC.

    Is that true?

    nightmarenny on
    Quire.jpg
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    FrankoFranko Sometimes I really wish I had four feet so I could dance with myself to the drumbeat Registered User regular
    Hey Tran I have another rules question.

    I've heard that Ratchet bomb with no counters on it can kill flipped werewolves because they technically have no CMC.

    Is that true?

    and tokens as well, which also have a CMC of 0
    Rachet Bomb was stated as being specifically introduced in Return to Mirrodan to counter the possibility of transform cards being too good

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    The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    Franko wrote: »
    Hey Tran I have another rules question.

    I've heard that Ratchet bomb with no counters on it can kill flipped werewolves because they technically have no CMC.

    Is that true?

    and tokens as well, which also have a CMC of 0
    Rachet Bomb was stated as being specifically introduced in Return to Mirrodan to counter the possibility of transform cards being too good

    All correct.

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    I wonder of Selesnya will get an enchantment card for like G/WX that says all token creatures have a casting cost equal to X or some such.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    I think everybody is exaggerating how bad Snapcaster is getting hosed.

    These creatures are easily removed by a UR Delver so it should just force people to play around them.

    The Rakdos Charm however...

    Quire.jpg
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    drp527drp527 We sacrifice our own That more may rise in their placeRegistered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    I wonder of Selesnya will get an enchantment card for like G/WX that says all token creatures have a casting cost equal to X or some such.

    while an interesting idea and certainly a unique effect I'd say chances are very low because outside of Ratchet Bomb-like effects, effects that care about cmc being below/above a certain value, and that one cycle of spells (Rush of Knowledge, Accelerated Mutation and the like), cmc of permanents has very low impact on anything

    a1o1MZu.jpg
    Pokemon White FC: 2623 5026 2422 SS: 2150 9795 3738 Black: 4212 6128 9776
    Black2: 1593 2528 7190 3DS:0216-0910-3881 LoL:drp527
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    FrankoFranko Sometimes I really wish I had four feet so I could dance with myself to the drumbeat Registered User regular
    I'll be happy if the meta mixes up a bit
    Standard was so sick during ISD/DKA, so many different decks
    I just couldn't compete once miracles came out though, that shit is ba-roken

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    The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    To be fair, Delver was already a pretty strong force toward the end of pure ISD and was the dominant deck in DKA.

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
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    ToastmoldToastmold Registered User regular
    I've signed up for two prereleases. For the first one I've picked Selesnya because they seem like they will be the least popular and I felt like being a 'rebel.' I do like green and white stuff though. Hopefully the tokens will bring me more pleasure than pain. Hopefully I will get the +3/+3 to all enchant!

    For the second one I picked The Izzet, because it will be fun to try and play with a heavy instant/sorcery based deck, and the dragon seems handy.

    All the other guilds look pretty interesting though. If I was only trying to win I'd probably have picked one of the other three. Detain looks like it will be pretty effective for shoving damage through, Rakdos should be pretty aggressive and Golgari will just have such fat, countered up creatures.

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    FrankoFranko Sometimes I really wish I had four feet so I could dance with myself to the drumbeat Registered User regular
    To be fair, Delver was already a pretty strong force toward the end of pure ISD and was the dominant deck in DKA.

    I played B/W tokens though, Delver's anti-christ

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    drp527 wrote: »
    71d54b691d90f768d530b18e2e50e0ae.jpg

    ok I like this thing, it's weird but seems fun

    ex8mtsafo2_en.jpg
    likely never gonna see standard, but man that would be dick to pull that in limited

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    drp527drp527 We sacrifice our own That more may rise in their placeRegistered User regular
    alternatively Epic Experiment, sped up by Hypersonic Dragon, with Niv Magus elemental attacking

    play every spell in your library then exile them all to make it immeasurably large just after they let it through

    a1o1MZu.jpg
    Pokemon White FC: 2623 5026 2422 SS: 2150 9795 3738 Black: 4212 6128 9776
    Black2: 1593 2528 7190 3DS:0216-0910-3881 LoL:drp527
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    Butler For Life #1Butler For Life #1 Twinning is WinningRegistered User regular
    that might be the most izzet strategy ever.

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    The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    I predict I will win at least one draft that way this season.


    I WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN.

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
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    SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    you put the cards into your graveyard after the spell is played. I don't know if that means they resolve before the cards go into the graveyard, but that's what I assume.

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
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    The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    SLyM wrote: »
    you put the cards into your graveyard after the spell is played. I don't know if that means they resolve before the cards go into the graveyard, but that's what I assume.

    Yea but you're swingin' with a big dude your opponent wasn't expecting.

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
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    drp527drp527 We sacrifice our own That more may rise in their placeRegistered User regular
    what happens is you cast each spell, then before they can resolve exile them

    they'll be gone for good instead of in the graveyard but you probably just won

    a1o1MZu.jpg
    Pokemon White FC: 2623 5026 2422 SS: 2150 9795 3738 Black: 4212 6128 9776
    Black2: 1593 2528 7190 3DS:0216-0910-3881 LoL:drp527
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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    so here's a cool story from FNM

    playing a pick-up game with the b/g heartless summoning deck i'm borrowing

    i start with 2 heartless, 3 land, and not much else

    turn 2 or 3 i get heartless down

    turn 3 or 4 i top-deck (and play) wolfir silverheart. heartless drops him to 3/3 but that's ok, other guy doesn't have SHIT

    next turn i top-deck, and play, steel hellkite. and soulbond it to wolfir. so wolfir is 7/7 and hellkite is 8/8

    i won the turn after that

    literally a turn 6 win

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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    that deck can be a trick and a half to pull off

    but when it goes off

    it goes off in style

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    ThetherooThetheroo Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Hey, I have a question for all you rules lawyers out there

    My friend plays a Zombie Apocalypse, but I counter it with a Redirect and point it towards me.

    Is that legal, and what is the result of that play?

    We are actually pausing the game while we sort this out

    Thetheroo on
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    The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Can't redirect spells that don't target is the long and short of it.

    E: And now that I'm not in a LoL game:

    Some spells or abilities require you to select targets. If they do, they will (on modern cards and on all oracle text, at least) say 'target'. This is referred to as a 'targeted spell/ability', for obvious reasons.

    Cards like redirect, keywords like shroud/hexproof, and creatures like spellskite deal directly and exclusively with targeted things. If a spell or ability does not say it targets, it does not, and those features are not relevant.

    The Good Doctor Tran on
    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
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    drp527drp527 We sacrifice our own That more may rise in their placeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    the single exception to that is auras

    auras always target the permanent they attach to when cast despite not explicitly saying so

    drp527 on
    a1o1MZu.jpg
    Pokemon White FC: 2623 5026 2422 SS: 2150 9795 3738 Black: 4212 6128 9776
    Black2: 1593 2528 7190 3DS:0216-0910-3881 LoL:drp527
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    The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    drp527 wrote: »
    the single exception to that is auras

    auras always target the permanent they attach to when cast despite not explicitly saying so

    Technically Auras have it on their oracle text as an implicit inclusion, but yea. There are also some keywords that specifically target, I believe, without saying they do so. Banding might be one, I will look later.

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
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    Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    if it said "return all Zombie cards from target player's graveyard to the battlefield", that would be redirectable

    but since it doesn't have the word "target" in the rules text, it doesn't have targets, and therefore those targets cannot be changed

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    Butler For Life #1Butler For Life #1 Twinning is WinningRegistered User regular
    is anybody going to play Selesnya at the prerelease? the promo card is a land.

    A land for god's sake.

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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    i would if i were there because j'adore selesnya

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    drp527drp527 We sacrifice our own That more may rise in their placeRegistered User regular
    a land that makes an 8/8

    in the guild with populate

    I am strongly considering it

    a1o1MZu.jpg
    Pokemon White FC: 2623 5026 2422 SS: 2150 9795 3738 Black: 4212 6128 9776
    Black2: 1593 2528 7190 3DS:0216-0910-3881 LoL:drp527
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    Butler For Life #1Butler For Life #1 Twinning is WinningRegistered User regular
    the stupid guild quiz keeps telling me I'm Azorius

    dammit I want to not be boring!

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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    azorius is for nice people who are smart
    like me

    and @Dichotomy

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    Butler For Life #1Butler For Life #1 Twinning is WinningRegistered User regular
    well, when you put it that way.

    Go Azorius!

    Sphinxes are cool.

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    BugBoyBugBoy boy.EXE has stopped functioning. only bugs remainRegistered User regular
    I was also azorius

This discussion has been closed.