[Mass Effect] FemShep Trailer Released. USE SPOILER TAGS

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  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    To be fair, that could conceivably just have been a Geth ship. The only other evidence they had was Shepard screaming REAPERS REAPERS REAPERS REAPERS REAPERS considering Saren and Benezia were dead. If he had brought them other evidence, like HELMET RECORDINGS, them ignoring Shepard would have been stupid. But Shepard is a Fucking Moron.

  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    I'm sure the individual governments are well aware of what's going on at this point. The turians have already reverse engineered the salvaged tech, the Alliance knows as of Arrival, and I'm sure the STG knows what's going on. It's their job to know things.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    FightTest wrote:
    I hope none of you are ever in charge of saving every bit of life in the galaxy from giant apocalyptic robots. "Well yeah they're going to exterminate everyone, but the only guy really trying to stop them is such a dickhead! Fuck it I hate that guy screw potential technology that could be used to save EVERYTHING."

    Worst heroes ever.

    You're missing kind of an important thing (as already mentioned). Your magical save EVERYTHING technology that will automatically kill all the enemies and make everyone sandwiches for the trip home? Actually, it's going to probably make the people handling it kill more people. Like it did last time. And the time before that. And the time before that. And even if it did, how exactly is it going to solve all our problems automatically? Did the Reapers already say, "Shit! They've got some of our stuff! Better call the whole thing off." The Thanix cannon--perhaps the single most useful thing salvaged from the Reapers--was taken from a harmless chunk of debris, and only after a year of development by actually non-crazy non-idiots. So our only option is to keep the Collector Base in perfect, maximum-brain-raping condition because we know it'll fix everything in the long run?

    I hope you are never in charge of how to deal with one of the galaxy's most notorious mass-murdering organization, particularly in a moment of crisis. "Quick! They might help us against other mass-murderers! Forget that they're still killing people, we need to give them MORE GUNS AND POISON."

    Worst decision-making ever.

    EDIT: And, as we've already discussed, giving the Collector Base to the Council or the Alliance leadership is difficult simply because Cerberus has no fucking intention of letting them have it. And are week ahead of them in the department of "reaching them." Cerberus would probably destroy it themselves before the allowed a hostile political power to take it, even for something as benign as "Not become total psychopathic tools like the Geth and maybe even come up with something useful."

    What am I saying? It's Cerberus. The second a sane person might take something they couldn't have, they'd kill them and then themselves.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote:
    FightTest wrote:
    I hope none of you are ever in charge of saving every bit of life in the galaxy from giant apocalyptic robots. "Well yeah they're going to exterminate everyone, but the only guy really trying to stop them is such a dickhead! Fuck it I hate that guy screw potential technology that could be used to save EVERYTHING."

    Worst heroes ever.

    You're missing kind of an important thing (as already mentioned). Your magical save EVERYTHING technology that will automatically kill all the enemies and make everyone sandwiches for the trip home? Actually, it's going to probably make the people handling it kill more people. Like it did last time. And the time before that. And the time before that. And even if it did, how exactly is it going to solve all our problems automatically? Did the Reapers already say, "Shit! They've got some of our stuff! Better call the whole thing off."

    I hope you are never in charge of how to deal with one of the galaxy's most notorious mass-murdering organization. "Quick! They might help us against other mass-murderers! Forget that they're still killing people, we need to give them MORE GUNS AND POISON."

    Worst decision-making ever.

    How do you suppose that, barring whatever magical plot device Shepard finds, the Council races and humanity are supposed to beat thousands of Reapers, considering a large portion of the Council fleet and most of the Alliance fleet were barely able to destroy one reaper?

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Lemming wrote:
    How do you suppose that, barring whatever magical plot device Shepard finds, the Council races and humanity are supposed to beat thousands of Reapers, considering a large portion of the Council fleet and most of the Alliance fleet were barely able to destroy one reaper?

    How do you suppose that, barring Bioware actually saying otherwise (which it looks more and more like they won't, given they love doing the exact opposite), the manufacturing base for a Reaper contains a magical weapon that can destroy all the Reapers with the snap of a finger and that, furthermore, can actually be used by non-Reapers, considering every research effort into their technology, while not in pieces, results at best in a whole bunch of dead scientists and engineering-school students, and at worse more willing fanatical slaves?

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    How do you suppose that, barring whatever magical plot device Shepard finds, the Council races and humanity are supposed to beat thousands of Reapers, considering a large portion of the Council fleet and most of the Alliance fleet were barely able to destroy one reaper?

    How do you suppose that the manufacturing base for a Reaper contains a magical weapon that can destroy all the Reapers with the snap of a finger and that, furthermore, can actually be used by non-Reapers, considering every research effort into their technology, while not in pieces, results at best in a whole bunch of dead scientists and engineering-school students, and at worse more willing fanatical slaves?

    I never suggested that it was a guarantee, but considering the alternative is to sit on their hands, trying to research the base for clues is the only practical option. A slim chance of finding something useful is better than no chance at all. I mean, the Thanix cannon was constructed from Reaper debris, who's to say they couldn't develop something more useful from an intact base?

    So that's my option. Tell me how you think that they're supposed to beat the Reapers, barring whatever plot device Shepard will inevitably find, when they can barely beat one reaper with most of their combined forces.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    if there is a 2% chance of finding a way to kill reapers in the collector base, it's worth it

    what is the risk? however many cerberus guys TIM puts to work on it get indoctrinated. Maybe they eventually build a new collector ship and try to harvest more humans? But even if that happens, it'd take years and isn't a huge deal in the grand scheme of THE UNIVERSE GETTING WIPED OUT.

    alternatively we do find something useful and we wind up having to go blow it up because TIM acted like a dick once the reapers were dead.
    To be fair, that could conceivably just have been a Geth ship. The only other evidence they had was Shepard screaming REAPERS REAPERS REAPERS REAPERS REAPERS considering Saren and Benezia were dead. If he had brought them other evidence, like HELMET RECORDINGS, them ignoring Shepard would have been stupid. But Shepard is a Fucking Moron.

    1) people still have their shepards wear helmets?

    2) recordings of what, exactly? You give them a recording of saren/benezia in me1 and they don't even care. They just think saren's a geth-loving traitor who's manipulating you. If having an actual reaper land on the citadel, blow up half their fleet, and leave behind a bunch of crazy future-tech shit doesn't convince them, nothing will.

    NREqxl5.jpg
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    So it all comes down to indoctrination and how it works.

    and for those questioning the lethality, hubris, whatever of the reapers. They have this stuff down to a science. I'd almost consider "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" to be a decent analogy. Humans to primates as Reapers to humans.

    I am a little 'grr faced' that Shep didnt have helmet-cam, but just as much fault can be laid on the council too for their hubris. They pretty much let spectres tear-ass through the galaxy with their own set of codes and ethics, and only revoke status when they are caught on camera.


    but at the end of the day, guys... its still a helluva good story, and its a damn sight better than 90% of JRPGs out there. "Oh look, Brash hero with shy girl, big-bro-brick-man, and heart of gold thief go off to save the world from the evil empire, 'cuz their rebels and they want to save the planet'' .... wait a second...

    a4irovn5uqjp.png
    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Think about it this way: was sacrificing that husked/indoctrinated cerberus team on the derelict worth a chance at getting a functional reaper IFF? I say yes.

    NREqxl5.jpg
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Lemming wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    How do you suppose that, barring whatever magical plot device Shepard finds, the Council races and humanity are supposed to beat thousands of Reapers, considering a large portion of the Council fleet and most of the Alliance fleet were barely able to destroy one reaper?

    How do you suppose that the manufacturing base for a Reaper contains a magical weapon that can destroy all the Reapers with the snap of a finger and that, furthermore, can actually be used by non-Reapers, considering every research effort into their technology, while not in pieces, results at best in a whole bunch of dead scientists and engineering-school students, and at worse more willing fanatical slaves?

    I never suggested that it was a guarantee, but considering the alternative is to sit on their hands, trying to research the base for clues is the only practical option. A slim chance of finding something useful is better than no chance at all. I mean, the Thanix cannon was constructed from Reaper debris, who's to say they couldn't develop something more useful from an intact base?

    So that's my option. Tell me how you think that they're supposed to beat the Reapers, barring whatever plot device Shepard will inevitably find, when they can barely beat one reaper with most of their combined forces.

    Me personally? I'm counting on the Reapers being far less competent than they claim (just like Sovereign turned out to be far stupider then he liked to think he was), and the fact that, their amazing technology aside, they do stupid, stupid things. Think about it: we've already seen a trailer where a Reaper drop ship/mini-Reaper/whatever was tackled by a Thersher Maw. For what fucking purpose? Why not just kill everything from orbit, stupid? Aren't you in the business of killing things, after all?

    They're not smart, I think. They're not Cerberus stupid, mind you, but they're not smart. Their arsenal failsafes are probably among their smartest strategies.

    In the end, it seems so blatantly obvious from the way Bioware has written their narrative that the small chance of finding something useful in Collector Base--emphasis on "something useful", because even the Thanix cannon, from months of careful, non-let's-get-indoctrinated development, wasn't enough to defeat the Collectors by itself, much less the Reapers--is dwarfed by very, very high odds that it will corrupt the owners the way it happened every time people much stupider than they realized tried to get an upper hand on the Reapers by co-opting their technology. It's how Saren became a problem in the first place. It'll probably happen again.

    It's the nature of the binary choice--Cerberus or Shepard never found some magically way to disable the indoctrination systems or anything of that sort. Add the fact that we can be absolutely certain that the plot will be composed in such a way that one measly death-trap Collector Base is not going to be the only useful bit of salvage (see Bioware and the Thanix cannon), and Collector Base decision is not "Are we just going to sit around or are we going to find the cheat codes against the Reapers?". It's actually, "Are we going to rally our forces for the fight we're going to inevitably face, or are we going to make the same damn mistake again, this time to the benefit of a dellusional nutjob with a hard-on for murdering yoomanity wherever he happens to find it, as well as the Reapers?"

    Kind of calls to mind what Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting the same result.

    In meta terms, the fact that the Collector Base looks like it'll be written off just confirms how useless it was to keep it, since we already know who Cerberus really serves anyway.
    Think about it this way: was sacrificing that husked/indoctrinated cerberus team on the derelict worth a chance at getting a functional reaper IFF? I say yes.

    Or this way: do we want to be Saren? I say no.

    As I've said, if there were some means to deliver the station to someone other than the least trustworthy person in the universe (or certainly one of the top five on that list), it would be different--possibly.

    Or put it in a different way: is a 2% chance to find another weapon--you know, to join all the ones we know can kill Reapers when properly used--worth possibly greatly augmenting their strength? No, it's not. Because indoctrination doesn't just kill people. It how the Reapers propagate themselves and their forces. The Geth, Saren, the Collectors. What good is if it you kill every Reaper only to keep supplying them with the means to reproduce themselves and an unending pool of fanatical slaves?

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    if there is a 2% chance of finding a way to kill reapers in the collector base, it's worth it

    what is the risk? however many cerberus guys TIM puts to work on it get indoctrinated. Maybe they eventually build a new collector ship and try to harvest more humans? But even if that happens, it'd take years and isn't a huge deal in the grand scheme of THE UNIVERSE GETTING WIPED OUT.

    alternatively we do find something useful and we wind up having to go blow it up because TIM acted like a dick once the reapers were dead.
    To be fair, that could conceivably just have been a Geth ship. The only other evidence they had was Shepard screaming REAPERS REAPERS REAPERS REAPERS REAPERS considering Saren and Benezia were dead. If he had brought them other evidence, like HELMET RECORDINGS, them ignoring Shepard would have been stupid. But Shepard is a Fucking Moron.

    1) people still have their shepards wear helmets?

    2) recordings of what, exactly? You give them a recording of saren/benezia in me1 and they don't even care. They just think saren's a geth-loving traitor who's manipulating you. If having an actual reaper land on the citadel, blow up half their fleet, and leave behind a bunch of crazy future-tech shit doesn't convince them, nothing will.

    If you took the Paragon option in ME1, a recording of
    you convincing Saren to shoot himself in the head because he's indoctrinated
    would be pretty fucking good evidence that he wasn't just making up the Reaper threat for personal gain. Basically tons of stuff like that would make for pretty overwhelming evidence, especially when compared to "duh the reaper's are totally comin' i dun seen it." Nobody understands what the Geth are or what they've been up to, so thinking that it was just a Geth ship, when compared to saying that Reapers have murdered all sapient beings every 50,000 years seems more reasonable. But when faced with evidence like the Thorian, Saren, Benezia, the Prothean VI, and all that stuff, it gets way more convincing. But nope, Shepard is braindead.

  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    what is the risk?

    Floodambush.jpg

    And that's what they manage to make regardless: a contagious self-reproducing husk army, something even the reapers never came up with. I don't want to think about what abominations they'll produce from a human murder factory.

    By the way, did Nihlus know about reapers in the books or anywhere? When you see that footage of Sovereign at the beginning, it cuts to a close-up of his mandible-twitching face in a way that always seemed to suggest recognition.

    SoundsPlush on
    s7Imn5J.png
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    are we considering shepard's decision in light of metagaming ME3, now?

    NREqxl5.jpg
  • envoy1envoy1 Registered User regular
    I'm with synthesis. It's cerberus. fuck them.

  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    How do you suppose that, barring whatever magical plot device Shepard finds, the Council races and humanity are supposed to beat thousands of Reapers, considering a large portion of the Council fleet and most of the Alliance fleet were barely able to destroy one reaper?

    How do you suppose that the manufacturing base for a Reaper contains a magical weapon that can destroy all the Reapers with the snap of a finger and that, furthermore, can actually be used by non-Reapers, considering every research effort into their technology, while not in pieces, results at best in a whole bunch of dead scientists and engineering-school students, and at worse more willing fanatical slaves?

    I never suggested that it was a guarantee, but considering the alternative is to sit on their hands, trying to research the base for clues is the only practical option. A slim chance of finding something useful is better than no chance at all. I mean, the Thanix cannon was constructed from Reaper debris, who's to say they couldn't develop something more useful from an intact base?

    So that's my option. Tell me how you think that they're supposed to beat the Reapers, barring whatever plot device Shepard will inevitably find, when they can barely beat one reaper with most of their combined forces.
    Me personally? I'm counting on the Reapers being far less competent than they claim (just like Sovereign turned out to be far stupider then he liked to think he was), and the fact that, their amazing technology aside, they do stupid, stupid things. Think about it: we've already seen a trailer where a Reaper drop ship/mini-Reaper/whatever was tackled by a Thersher Maw. For what fucking purpose? Why not just kill everything from orbit, stupid?

    They're not smart. They're not Cerberus stupid, mind you, but they're not smart. Their arsenal failsafes are probably among their smartest strategies.

    In the end, it seems so blatantly obvious from the way Bioware has written their narrative that the small chance of finding something useful in Collector Base--emphasis on "something useful", because even the Thanix cannon, from months of careful, non-let's-get-indoctrinated development, wasn't enough to defeat the Collectors by itself, much less the Reapers--is dwarfed by very, very high odds that it will corrupt the owners the way it happened every time people much stupider than they realized tried to get an upper hand on the Reapers by co-opting their technology. It's how Saren became a problem in the first place. It'll probably happen again.

    It's the nature of the binary choice--Cerberus or Shepard never found some magically way to disable the indoctrination systems or anything of that sort. Add the fact that we can be absolutely certain that the plot will be composed in such a way that one measly death-trap Collector Base is not going to be the only useful bit of salvage (see Bioware and the Thanix cannon), and Collector Base decision is not "Are we just going to sit around or are we going to find the cheat codes against the Reapers?". It's actually, "Are we going to rally our forces for the fight we're going to inevitably face, or are we going to make the same damn mistake again, this time to the benefit of a dellusional nutjob with a hard-on for murdering yoomanity wherever he happens to find it, as well as the Reapers?"

    Kind of calls to mind what Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting the same result.

    In meta terms, the fact that the Collector Base looks like it'll be written off just confirms how useless it was to keep it, since we already know who Cerberus really serves anyway.

    Well, yes, obviously. It's a game, this decision isn't going to make or break ME3. I'm just saying from a logical standpoint, if this sort of thing were to really happen, blowing up the base would be stupid. In game terms it's going to change a few variables but I'm sure ME3 will be largely the same. My argument isn't saying that it's going to give you a better ending, just that, ignoring video game tropes and various other "meta" factors, keeping the base is the most sensible thing to do. Your alternative of "well I bet the Reapers are really dumb, we'll totally be able to outsmart them even though every galatic civilization every 50,000 years for millions of years have failed" is kind of silly, again, from a non-"this is obviously a game and a plot device will fix everything" point of view.

  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    are we considering shepard's decision in light of metagaming ME3, now?

    No, I'm considering the non-metagame knowledge that Cerberus is a bunch of fucking morons and their making dumb shit like this is entirely predictable based on their well-known history of making dumb shit like this. The fact that this infamous detail is later confirmed (again) doesn't make it impossible knowledge.

    But in terms of the base, here's a nice tidbit:
    It is later revealed that Cerberus had kept a colony of Adjutants within its research base at Avernus Station, but somehow they had broken free and were able to take control of the bases' transport ships and escape. Although the first wave of attackers was stopped, more lurked on the other side of the Omega 4 Relay, learning to control Cerberus' better-armed ships

    Contagious husk army that can fly their own high-tech ships. Lovely.

    SoundsPlush on
    s7Imn5J.png
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Lemming wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    How do you suppose that, barring whatever magical plot device Shepard finds, the Council races and humanity are supposed to beat thousands of Reapers, considering a large portion of the Council fleet and most of the Alliance fleet were barely able to destroy one reaper?

    How do you suppose that the manufacturing base for a Reaper contains a magical weapon that can destroy all the Reapers with the snap of a finger and that, furthermore, can actually be used by non-Reapers, considering every research effort into their technology, while not in pieces, results at best in a whole bunch of dead scientists and engineering-school students, and at worse more willing fanatical slaves?

    I never suggested that it was a guarantee, but considering the alternative is to sit on their hands, trying to research the base for clues is the only practical option. A slim chance of finding something useful is better than no chance at all. I mean, the Thanix cannon was constructed from Reaper debris, who's to say they couldn't develop something more useful from an intact base?

    So that's my option. Tell me how you think that they're supposed to beat the Reapers, barring whatever plot device Shepard will inevitably find, when they can barely beat one reaper with most of their combined forces.
    Me personally? I'm counting on the Reapers being far less competent than they claim (just like Sovereign turned out to be far stupider then he liked to think he was), and the fact that, their amazing technology aside, they do stupid, stupid things. Think about it: we've already seen a trailer where a Reaper drop ship/mini-Reaper/whatever was tackled by a Thersher Maw. For what fucking purpose? Why not just kill everything from orbit, stupid?

    They're not smart. They're not Cerberus stupid, mind you, but they're not smart. Their arsenal failsafes are probably among their smartest strategies.

    In the end, it seems so blatantly obvious from the way Bioware has written their narrative that the small chance of finding something useful in Collector Base--emphasis on "something useful", because even the Thanix cannon, from months of careful, non-let's-get-indoctrinated development, wasn't enough to defeat the Collectors by itself, much less the Reapers--is dwarfed by very, very high odds that it will corrupt the owners the way it happened every time people much stupider than they realized tried to get an upper hand on the Reapers by co-opting their technology. It's how Saren became a problem in the first place. It'll probably happen again.

    It's the nature of the binary choice--Cerberus or Shepard never found some magically way to disable the indoctrination systems or anything of that sort. Add the fact that we can be absolutely certain that the plot will be composed in such a way that one measly death-trap Collector Base is not going to be the only useful bit of salvage (see Bioware and the Thanix cannon), and Collector Base decision is not "Are we just going to sit around or are we going to find the cheat codes against the Reapers?". It's actually, "Are we going to rally our forces for the fight we're going to inevitably face, or are we going to make the same damn mistake again, this time to the benefit of a dellusional nutjob with a hard-on for murdering yoomanity wherever he happens to find it, as well as the Reapers?"

    Kind of calls to mind what Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting the same result.

    In meta terms, the fact that the Collector Base looks like it'll be written off just confirms how useless it was to keep it, since we already know who Cerberus really serves anyway.

    Well, yes, obviously. It's a game, this decision isn't going to make or break ME3. I'm just saying from a logical standpoint, if this sort of thing were to really happen, blowing up the base would be stupid. In game terms it's going to change a few variables but I'm sure ME3 will be largely the same. My argument isn't saying that it's going to give you a better ending, just that, ignoring video game tropes and various other "meta" factors, keeping the base is the most sensible thing to do. Your alternative of "well I bet the Reapers are really dumb, we'll totally be able to outsmart them even though every galatic civilization every 50,000 years for millions of years have failed" is kind of silly, again, from a non-"this is obviously a game and a plot device will fix everything" point of view.

    And I'm saying, from a rational standpoint, keeping the base--when it can only be delivered to Cerberus, but even if that weren't necessarily the case--is stupid and dangerous. You're right, I'm just speculating on how the Reapers will fall--but it's still not as stupid as the whole "But just think, the only way you could ever harm the Reapers ever was in that one place!" argument that is the cornerstone of keeping the whole station, and the whole of its worth in an effort to justify how obviously dangerous its mere existence is.

    Then you're giving what amounts to a human-kidnapping war factory to a military organization that preoccupies itself largely with kidnapping humans. As though the original warning that it would likely render anyone trying to use it into slaves--just like the last people using it were--wasn't obvious enough.
    what is the risk?

    Floodambush.jpg

    And that's what they manage to make regardless: a contagious self-reproducing husk army, something even the reapers never came up with. I don't want to think about what abominations they'll produce from a human murder factory.

    By the way, did Nihlus know about reapers in the books or anywhere? When you see that footage of Sovereign at the beginning, it cuts to a close-up of his mandible-twitching face in a way that always seemed to suggest recognition.

    I'm this close to pointing to this phenomena--the notion that Reapers, with their advantage of age are really untold treasure troves of wonderful technology for anything you can think of (medicine, space travel, war against the Reapers themselves) is the real danger of the Reapers, and the reason for their success in large part, not their own self-described brilliance versus the the stupidly unaware organic life of the galaxy not smart enough to be alive for millions of years at a time. I wouldn't be surprised of each Reaper cycle frequently comes down to the whole galaxy versus a fleet of individual Reapers, with both sides making numerous errors in judgement in trying to predict the others, and bleeds both sides badly. In the end, the Reaper ability to propagate themselves--turn your enemy insane or into your own method of reproduction and agents of your will, or both--gives them the edge they need to win.

    Just a funny theory on my part. Bioware will probably refute it when we get more descriptions of Reaper cycles besides the last one (if we do).
    are we considering shepard's decision in light of metagaming ME3, now?

    No, I'm considering the non-metagame knowledge that Cerberus is a bunch of fucking morons and their making dumb shit like this is entirely predictable based on their well-known history of making dumb shit like this. The fact that this infamous detail is later confirmed (again) doesn't make it impossible knowledge.

    A bunch of idiot (Cerberus) sociopaths (torturing the humans they claim to protect) bent on increasing their own military power (TIM's very clear agenda even with his resurrection of Shepard) did something idiotic (jeopardizing the species and life as a whole), sociopathic (working with the Reapers), and self-serving in the area of military power (becoming part of a much larger force, the Reapers).

    Yeah, this isn't supposed to be a terrible shock. I'm kind of surprised that anyone would find it surprising.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    by the end of ME2/dlc I trust cerberus more than most of the rest of the various galactic organizations

    I mean they do some fucked up stuff sure, but they are pretty much the only group taking the reaper threat seriously and don't appear to be actively trying to sell shepard down the river for whatever ultimately inconsequential reason

    NREqxl5.jpg
  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    How do you suppose that, barring whatever magical plot device Shepard finds, the Council races and humanity are supposed to beat thousands of Reapers, considering a large portion of the Council fleet and most of the Alliance fleet were barely able to destroy one reaper?

    How do you suppose that the manufacturing base for a Reaper contains a magical weapon that can destroy all the Reapers with the snap of a finger and that, furthermore, can actually be used by non-Reapers, considering every research effort into their technology, while not in pieces, results at best in a whole bunch of dead scientists and engineering-school students, and at worse more willing fanatical slaves?

    I never suggested that it was a guarantee, but considering the alternative is to sit on their hands, trying to research the base for clues is the only practical option. A slim chance of finding something useful is better than no chance at all. I mean, the Thanix cannon was constructed from Reaper debris, who's to say they couldn't develop something more useful from an intact base?

    So that's my option. Tell me how you think that they're supposed to beat the Reapers, barring whatever plot device Shepard will inevitably find, when they can barely beat one reaper with most of their combined forces.
    Me personally? I'm counting on the Reapers being far less competent than they claim (just like Sovereign turned out to be far stupider then he liked to think he was), and the fact that, their amazing technology aside, they do stupid, stupid things. Think about it: we've already seen a trailer where a Reaper drop ship/mini-Reaper/whatever was tackled by a Thersher Maw. For what fucking purpose? Why not just kill everything from orbit, stupid?

    They're not smart. They're not Cerberus stupid, mind you, but they're not smart. Their arsenal failsafes are probably among their smartest strategies.

    In the end, it seems so blatantly obvious from the way Bioware has written their narrative that the small chance of finding something useful in Collector Base--emphasis on "something useful", because even the Thanix cannon, from months of careful, non-let's-get-indoctrinated development, wasn't enough to defeat the Collectors by itself, much less the Reapers--is dwarfed by very, very high odds that it will corrupt the owners the way it happened every time people much stupider than they realized tried to get an upper hand on the Reapers by co-opting their technology. It's how Saren became a problem in the first place. It'll probably happen again.

    It's the nature of the binary choice--Cerberus or Shepard never found some magically way to disable the indoctrination systems or anything of that sort. Add the fact that we can be absolutely certain that the plot will be composed in such a way that one measly death-trap Collector Base is not going to be the only useful bit of salvage (see Bioware and the Thanix cannon), and Collector Base decision is not "Are we just going to sit around or are we going to find the cheat codes against the Reapers?". It's actually, "Are we going to rally our forces for the fight we're going to inevitably face, or are we going to make the same damn mistake again, this time to the benefit of a dellusional nutjob with a hard-on for murdering yoomanity wherever he happens to find it, as well as the Reapers?"

    Kind of calls to mind what Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting the same result.

    In meta terms, the fact that the Collector Base looks like it'll be written off just confirms how useless it was to keep it, since we already know who Cerberus really serves anyway.

    Well, yes, obviously. It's a game, this decision isn't going to make or break ME3. I'm just saying from a logical standpoint, if this sort of thing were to really happen, blowing up the base would be stupid. In game terms it's going to change a few variables but I'm sure ME3 will be largely the same. My argument isn't saying that it's going to give you a better ending, just that, ignoring video game tropes and various other "meta" factors, keeping the base is the most sensible thing to do. Your alternative of "well I bet the Reapers are really dumb, we'll totally be able to outsmart them even though every galatic civilization every 50,000 years for millions of years have failed" is kind of silly, again, from a non-"this is obviously a game and a plot device will fix everything" point of view.

    And I'm saying, from a rational standpoint, keeping the base--when it can only be delivered to Cerberus, but even if that weren't necessarily the case--is stupid and dangerous. You're right, I'm just speculating on how the Reapers will fall--but it's still not as stupid as the whole "But just think, the only way you could ever harm the Reapers ever was in that one place!" argument that is the cornerstone of keeping the whole station, and the whole of its worth in an effort to justify how obviously dangerous its mere existence is.

    Then you're giving what amounts to a human-kidnapping war factory to a military organization that preoccupies itself largely with kidnapping humans. As though the original warning that it would likely render anyone trying to use it into slaves--just like the last people using it were--wasn't obvious enough.

    How is "But just think, the only way you could ever harm the Reapers ever was in that one place!" stupid when it is actually true? Remember, there are literally thousands of Reapers.

    And giving it to Cerberus is obviously retarded, but still overall better than blowing it up. If Cerberus develops something useful, it can worst-case be stolen back, and there isn't really anything that the base can produce that's worse than thousands of Reapers. Best case, something useful comes out of it, worst case, they're still fucked, just like before.

  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    by the end of ME2/dlc I trust cerberus more than most of the rest of the various galactic organizations

    I mean they do some fucked up stuff sure, but they are pretty much the only group taking the reaper threat seriously and don't appear to be actively trying to sell shepard down the river for whatever ultimately inconsequential reason

    You mean besides the four death traps they neglected to tell you about even though they knew about them.

    Or the fact literally every Cerberus project ends up with Cerberus agents dead by the dozens.

    Or that TIM is evil or the most incompetent chucklefuck in the universe.

    Cerberus is the worst organization and can't take anything goddamn seriously because their plan is always "Do something stupid. Woops, we're all dead again."
    The vision of TIM as a competent, ruthless, human-centric, and personally powerful man utterly falls apart if you buy his bullshit of not knowing what Cerberus was doing with Jack, or with the Thorians or on Akuze because it means he's so incompetent people can spend years and billions of dollars of his money to consistently run heinously evil experiments and he never clues in despite keeping keeping Cerberus small enough to personally oversee everything. Not to mention every interaction he has with any form of Reaper tech is him scheming to get his hands on it, even after he loses team after team to indoctrination. He doesn't even think about destroying the derelict one until Shepard forces his hand.

    If he wasn't supposed to be a villain then he is a barely functional schizophrenic puppet.

    Z0re on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Who cares if they all die? What do I care about a hundred odd cerberus scientists? If they're all willing to walk into their deaths so that shepard can have (for example) a working reaper IFF I'm all for it.

    also I'm not sure what the four death traps were; I grant you the one.

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Lemming wrote:
    Right, so clearly the best option would be to not destroy the base but then give it to the Council.

    I hate how your choice is between two idiotic options.

    Ah yes this "Omega relay" we have decided this giant base on the other side is just a myth .

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Horizon, the Collector Ship, the Derelict Reaper and Overlord.

    All of which had TIM explicitly know more than he was telling you and Shepard barely escaping. TIM is not on your side, he's a dangerous lunatic.

    Z0re on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Lemming wrote:
    How is "But just think, the only way you could ever harm the Reapers ever was in that one place!" stupid when it is actually true? Remember, there are literally thousands of Reapers.

    And giving it to Cerberus is obviously retarded, but still overall better than blowing it up. If Cerberus develops something useful, it can worst-case be stolen back, and there isn't really anything that the base can produce that's worse than thousands of Reapers. Best case, something useful comes out of it, worst case, they're still fucked, just like before.

    Because it's stupid since we already demonstrated the military capability to fight a Reaper when we went from having absolutely no knowledge of their existence a short time prior based on not throwing our best minds to the Reapers Saren-style? Why wouldn't this one magical tool be in the corpse of a Reaper? Or in every other piece of evidence we had of them that was painfully delved into? Was it, and all the parties involved--Council search teams, Salarian scientists, Cerberus "Oh, don't worry, this will work out fine" squads--were utterly incapable of finding it each time?

    There are, after all, literally thousands of Reapers. Why would they all have the exact same weakness, that would yet somehow be totally unavailable to every other group of people who looked for this universal weakness?
    Who cares if they all die? What do I care about a hundred odd cerberus scientists? If they're all willing to walk into their deaths so that shepard can have (for example) a working reaper IFF I'm all for it.

    Because they don't die, which is the problem. That would be too easy, like Cerberus actually being competent and protecting humanity (instead of Shepard protecting humanity for Cerberus, i.e. ME3).

    The outcome is that Cerberus, and whatever else they have that their disposal, become Reaper tools. It's the Geth all over again--though I wouldn't claim the Geth were as stupid (the heretical Geth, sure). And the Geth were a problem in ME1, distracting people.

    Not only is it what happens in ME3, as we know, given Cerberus' long and decorated history as a organization mostly involved in murdering military and civilian personnel throughout human space, it doesn't seem like that much of a shift for them.

    Also, the last thing I want is for the damn Council to go, "Shepard, this is clearly a Cerberus plot. They are in collusion with the Collectors--a known quantity. Not your Reaper mumbo-jumbo."

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I assume TIM is just lying about not being aware of jack/thorian/etc.

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  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Cerberus is a large/tiny organization that apparently has a massive enough budget to bring a person's dessicated corpse back to life and build the most advanced spaceship in the galaxy in complete secrecy. TIM retains complete control over all aspects of Cerberus operations except when he doesn't. They recruit amoral people willing to break the rules for the greater good of humanity when they aren't picking up disaffected Alliance washouts who get angry at immoral experimentation (The only kinds of people who work for Cerberus). They call what happened to Jack a tragedy that they couldn't possibly know about, yet Cerberus has and continues to do far worse things to people on a fairly regular basis (including kidnapping and turning innocent people into husks and unleashing the Rachni on Alliance soldiers. Oh and killing Shepard's unit with a Thresher Maw). Despite their proclaimed pro-human stance, no Cerberus agent save for Jacob and Miranda have ever been shown to do anything but kill humans except under Shepard's supervision. They somehow go from having an army of scientists to a dozen cells to having their own augmented private army in incredibly short periods of time. They're comically incompetent and literally every experiment they've run is a failure on such a laughable level its absurd, and the amount of resources they throw around makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. They somehow have an intelligence gathering ability rivaling that of the Shadow Broker, yet remain in the dark about some of the most basic knowledge of galactic society.

    And this is why Cerberus is schizophrenic and evil at best.

    Z0re on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Z0re wrote:
    Horizon, the Collector Ship, the Derelict Reaper and Overlord.

    All of which had TIM explicitly know more than he was telling you and Shepard barely escaping. TIM is not on your side, he's a dangerous lunatic.

    horizon and the derelict aren't deathtraps that he just walks you into. You know you're fighting the collectors going into horizon. The derelict reaper is a deathtrap but you know that in advance; it's not like he tells you you're just swinging by to drop off some supplies and pick up the iff.

    I didn't get overlord

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  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    If you don't blow up the collector base, sure all the collectors are dead, but that also means that Harbinger still has his direct connection to the facility, doesn't it?

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Z0re wrote:
    Cerberus is a large/tiny organization that apparently has a massive enough budget to bring a person's dessicated corpse back to life and build the most advanced spaceship in the galaxy in complete secrecy. TIM retains complete control over all aspects of Cerberus operations except when he doesn't. They recruit amoral people willing to break the rules for the greater good of humanity when they aren't picking up disaffected Alliance washouts who get angry at immoral experimentation (The only kinds of people who work for Cerberus). They call what happened to Jack a tragedy that they couldn't possibly know about, yet Cerberus has and continues to do far worse things to people on a fairly regular basis (including kidnapping and turning innocent people into husks and unleashing the Rachni on Alliance soldiers. Oh and killing Shepard's unit with a Thresher Maw). Despite their proclaimed pro-human stance, no Cerberus agent save for Jacob and Miranda have ever been shown to do anything but kill humans except under Shepard's supervision. They somehow go from having an army of scientists to a dozen cells to having their own augmented private army in incredibly short periods of time. They're comically incompetent and literally every experiment they've run is a failure on such a laughable level its absurd, and the amount of resources they throw around makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. They somehow have an intelligence gathering ability rivaling that of the Shadow Broker, yet remain in the dark about some of the most basic knowledge of galactic society.

    And this is why Cerberus is schizophrenic and evil at best.

    That's just the start. Cerberus seems barely aware of itself. I kind of find it hard to believe that they're so comically evil and willing to sacrifice everything for the honor of being Reaper slaves as everything they do would suggest--they're just barely functionally aware. They follow the whims of TIM (or obliterate anyone who ever has an independent thought, apparently, and blame them for everything bad), will murder as many of their self-appointed charges as they can along the way, and don't even double-take when TIM sells their souls to the Reaper.

    Unless the indoctrination thing to every Cerberus cell except the SR2 already. That might justify it. As oppose to Cerberus being absolutely committed to Cerberus first and foremost, unless a Reaper comes in, in which case, the Reapers first and foremost.
    If you don't blow up the collector base, sure all the collectors are dead, but that also means that Harbinger still has his direct connection to the facility, doesn't it?

    Harbinger has a connection to anyone on it--including people who arrive and stay--but the site itself? He probably could command it to make a new Reaper core, business as usual, but presumably even Cerberus wouldn't be stupid enough to allow a Reaper core to just be assembled in the background as they went over everything with a thin-toothed comb and slowly became slaves. They would disable some systems manually or something, right?

    "Hey Bob."

    "Hey Mike. How's it going?"

    "Ah, the same. Trying to find the magic bullet. Mostly just finding a thousand years worth of data on an alien genome that's not the Reapers."

    "What do you mean?"

    "Well, it might be a Reaper, but it's not the huge hulking giant warship, you know, the thing we actually care about. That's bigger than this station, they couldn't have built it here. Just notes on some sort of nuggety core."

    "Ah, I follow. Hey, was that giant cybernetic larvae behind you always that big?"

    "....yeah, I think so. It didn't have as many eyes, but I'm pretty sure it was."

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    jdarksun wrote:
    When did Cerberus invent the Flood? I think I missed that.

    Happened in a comic.

    SoundsPlush on
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  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    How is "But just think, the only way you could ever harm the Reapers ever was in that one place!" stupid when it is actually true? Remember, there are literally thousands of Reapers.

    And giving it to Cerberus is obviously retarded, but still overall better than blowing it up. If Cerberus develops something useful, it can worst-case be stolen back, and there isn't really anything that the base can produce that's worse than thousands of Reapers. Best case, something useful comes out of it, worst case, they're still fucked, just like before.

    Because it's stupid since we already demonstrated the military capability to fight a Reaper when we went from having absolutely no knowledge of their existence a short time prior based on not throwing our best minds to the Reapers Saren-style? Why wouldn't this one magical tool be in the corpse of a Reaper? Or in every other piece of evidence we had of them that was painfully delved into? Was it, and all the parties involved--Council search teams, Salarian scientists, Cerberus "Oh, don't worry, this will work out fine" squads--were utterly incapable of finding it each time?

    There are, after all, literally thousands of Reapers. Why would they all have the exact same weakness, that would yet somehow be totally unavailable to every other group of people who looked for this universal weakness?

    I never said there would be a magical kill all Reapers button. Just that the technology of an intact base is the best shot they have of fighting the Reapers, which is true. What they had access to before - dead, fragmented Reapers - were completely different. The Collector base is a Reaper factory. It gives you the most technology involved in creating Reapers, which could give you insights into how they're made, which could results in weaknesses you could exploit. There's a ton of stuff there, and destroying it because Cerberus is stupid is not really a logical decision. Of course you shouldn't give it to Cerberus, but we've established that Shepard is a Fucking Moron. It's still better than just blowing it up completely.

    And I'm sure that Cerberus is evil and has their own agenda, but if they were really just a tool of the Reapers, then nothing they did would make any sense. It wouldn't make any sense to revive Shepard, and it wouldn't make any sense to guide him into destroying a base where they were making a Human Reaper.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Lemming wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    How is "But just think, the only way you could ever harm the Reapers ever was in that one place!" stupid when it is actually true? Remember, there are literally thousands of Reapers.

    And giving it to Cerberus is obviously retarded, but still overall better than blowing it up. If Cerberus develops something useful, it can worst-case be stolen back, and there isn't really anything that the base can produce that's worse than thousands of Reapers. Best case, something useful comes out of it, worst case, they're still fucked, just like before.

    Because it's stupid since we already demonstrated the military capability to fight a Reaper when we went from having absolutely no knowledge of their existence a short time prior based on not throwing our best minds to the Reapers Saren-style? Why wouldn't this one magical tool be in the corpse of a Reaper? Or in every other piece of evidence we had of them that was painfully delved into? Was it, and all the parties involved--Council search teams, Salarian scientists, Cerberus "Oh, don't worry, this will work out fine" squads--were utterly incapable of finding it each time?

    There are, after all, literally thousands of Reapers. Why would they all have the exact same weakness, that would yet somehow be totally unavailable to every other group of people who looked for this universal weakness?

    I never said there would be a magical kill all Reapers button. Just that the technology of an intact base is the best shot they have of fighting the Reapers, which is true. What they had access to before - dead, fragmented Reapers - were completely different. The Collector base is a Reaper factory. It gives you the most technology involved in creating Reapers, which could give you insights into how they're made, which could results in weaknesses you could exploit. There's a ton of stuff there, and destroying it because Cerberus is stupid is not really a logical decision. Of course you shouldn't give it to Cerberus, but we've established that Shepard is a Fucking Moron. It's still better than just blowing it up completely.

    There's no way to pursue a third option, unfortunately. But the technology hidden in the base as being the best weapon to fight against is just as likely as the station being the best way to indoctrinate Reaper's enemies into slaves (an entire indoctrinated slave species called it home). We've had access to actual Reapers--not just part of a Reaper, the core, that was being manufactured on site for a process that still wasn't explained and could be unrelated to the rest of their reproductive cycle--an actual complete dead Reaper. Since killing a Reaper core isn't that hard, and a armada of giant squishy organic cores isn't the threat, the Collector Base could very well be as useful, or less useful.

    And, of course, because there's no third option--no one believes Shepard, the thought didn't occur to her, Ceberus isn't fucking letter anyone have their toy--the fact that preserving the station requires trusting it to another mass-human-kidnapping/murdering group is a pretty intrinsic part what would happen if you don't destroy it.

    EDIT: Now, to buy groceries and cook dinner. Or, if I were Cerberus, buy groceries and murder my whole family.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Lemming wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Lemming wrote:
    How is "But just think, the only way you could ever harm the Reapers ever was in that one place!" stupid when it is actually true? Remember, there are literally thousands of Reapers.

    And giving it to Cerberus is obviously retarded, but still overall better than blowing it up. If Cerberus develops something useful, it can worst-case be stolen back, and there isn't really anything that the base can produce that's worse than thousands of Reapers. Best case, something useful comes out of it, worst case, they're still fucked, just like before.

    Because it's stupid since we already demonstrated the military capability to fight a Reaper when we went from having absolutely no knowledge of their existence a short time prior based on not throwing our best minds to the Reapers Saren-style? Why wouldn't this one magical tool be in the corpse of a Reaper? Or in every other piece of evidence we had of them that was painfully delved into? Was it, and all the parties involved--Council search teams, Salarian scientists, Cerberus "Oh, don't worry, this will work out fine" squads--were utterly incapable of finding it each time?

    There are, after all, literally thousands of Reapers. Why would they all have the exact same weakness, that would yet somehow be totally unavailable to every other group of people who looked for this universal weakness?

    I never said there would be a magical kill all Reapers button. Just that the technology of an intact base is the best shot they have of fighting the Reapers, which is true. What they had access to before - dead, fragmented Reapers - were completely different. The Collector base is a Reaper factory. It gives you the most technology involved in creating Reapers, which could give you insights into how they're made, which could results in weaknesses you could exploit. There's a ton of stuff there, and destroying it because Cerberus is stupid is not really a logical decision. Of course you shouldn't give it to Cerberus, but we've established that Shepard is a Fucking Moron. It's still better than just blowing it up completely.

    And I'm sure that Cerberus is evil and has their own agenda, but if they were really just a tool of the Reapers, then nothing they did would make any sense. It wouldn't make any sense to revive Shepard, and it wouldn't make any sense to guide him into destroying a base where they were making a Human Reaper.

    You do realize literally the only time we got anything useful out of Reaper tech was after we blew it up right?

    Blowing the base up is the only sane choice, and the only one empirically proven to actually help.

  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Well, from Shep's point of view, it's not like there's a lot of obvious pay off to be found in the base. Between his time on Collector ship and the base, he knows...

    -They have a beam weapon that killed the old Normandy really fast, but the new Normandy (with upgraded shields) holds up to it pretty well. And the new Normandy is just a frigate.
    -They have no shield tech at all, since the new Normandy (upgraded or not) blows away the much larger and more powerful Collector ship.
    -They have some good electronic warfare tech, but by the Suicide Mission, EDI's already got that beat.
    -They know how to make husks. Maybe useful to know how to prevent, but... it's also exactly the sort of tech you don't want Cerberus to get ahold of.
    -They know how to make Reapers out of Solyent Green. Maybe there's a Reaper blueprint in there somewhere, but... again, Cerberus gaining that knowledge would be really bad.
    -There's a perpetual ongoing Indoctrination risk, and so far, no one has resisted Indoctrination.

    There could be other rewards or useful info to be found on the base, but at the end of the day, the Collectors can't seem all that impressive to Shep. She went in with one frigate, a fancy AI, and 13 crazy people and completely destroyed them. So given that they're not all that formidable, and nothing they have is markedly superior (in a Reaper-killing sort of way) to existing tech, then blowing up their base to keep TIM from getting it is at least on the spectrum of reasonable choices. Nothing about the Collectors says they had the knowledge to defeat the Reapers. They were just the last remaining Reaper patsies outside of Dark Space.

    htm on
  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I am continually amused at "I don't want Cerberus to get it" being the main justification for blowing it up

    while in-game they play up the morality of using it, which no one gives a shit about

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    htm wrote:
    -There's a perpetual ongoing Indoctrination risk, and so far, no one has resisted Indoctrination.

    Except Shepherd. (s)He's spent a lot of time with Reaper tech, including an extended period during Arrival. I wouldn't be shocked if they revealed that Shepherd is immune to indoctrination for some reason.

  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    -Tal wrote:
    I am continually amused at "I don't want Cerberus to get it" being the main justification for blowing it up

    while in-game they play up the morality of using it, which no one gives a shit about

    Well, that's why you don't want Cerberus to get it. I mean... once TIM realizes it can make Reapers out of humans, it wouldn't be at all out-of-character for him to try to make a Reaper of his very own.

    It's perfect TIM logic. What's the best way to learn about the Reapers? To build one (or parts of one) and study it. Since he scruples at no means to justify his ends, he'd just have Cerberus continuing where the Collectors left off. Pretty soon, Cerberus "Colonization Ships" would be hauling hapless suckers through the O4 relay, en masse.

    htm on
  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    yeah but in-game it's more about "they melted humans here therefore using it would be a betrayal to the dead" rather than anything to do with Cerberus, hence why Miranda defects

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  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    htm wrote:
    -There's a perpetual ongoing Indoctrination risk, and so far, no one has resisted Indoctrination.

    Except Shepherd. (s)He's spent a lot of time with Reaper tech, including an extended period during Arrival. I wouldn't be shocked if they revealed that Shepherd is immune to indoctrination for some reason.

    I wouldn't be, either. Arrival certainly implies it. But... Canon Arrival is after the Suicide Mission, though, no? So Shepard doesn't know she's immune to Indoctrination at the time she makes the decision about the Collector Base.

  • KainyKainy Registered User regular
    Lemming wrote:
    FightTest wrote:
    I hope none of you are ever in charge of saving every bit of life in the galaxy from giant apocalyptic robots. "Well yeah they're going to exterminate everyone, but the only guy really trying to stop them is such a dickhead! Fuck it I hate that guy screw potential technology that could be used to save EVERYTHING."

    Worst heroes ever.

    Just because it took almost the entire fleet of the Council and Alliance combined to barely kill one Reaper doesn't mean we need their evil space technology to beat thousands of Reapers when they inevitably return :evil:

    You forget, we're operating in a Bioware world, where there are zero negative consequences for choosing any option in the upper half of the WHEEL OF DOING STUFF, ever, no matter how much it ought to make your life harder.

    I'd be lying if I said that Bioware not having the balls to punish Paragon actions in any way, ever, wasn't about 1/3 of my reason for obliterating the base.

    The other 2/3 is spite towards TIM because I was really sick of being railroaded into working with his stupid ass by the end of ME2.

    IcyLiquid wrote: »
    There's anti-fuckery code in there now :) Sorry :)
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