Well, sir, considering I know several people who do inventory work for gamestop, both now and in the past, and the fact that gamestop released an official memo dictating this new policy some years back...
No, it isn't false. This is literally how gamestop does it. You have to specifically make the order yourself, to acquire copies of any games wherein there is not a publisher deal to push x amount of stock.
So while your description might fit other retailers (Its how Target does it, I know this for a fact having worked their logistics.) Gamestop makes a point of not doing it that way, purely to increased used sales. At least in Pa, Ga and NM.
because gamestop is literally the only place to buy games
The first-sale doctrine is a limitation on copyright that was recognized by the Supreme Court of the United States in 1908 (see Bobbs-Merrill Co. v. Straus) and subsequently codified in the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 109. The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell, lend or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained. This means that the copyright holder's rights to control the change of ownership of a particular copy ends once ownership of that copy has passed to someone else, as long as the copy itself is not an infringing copy. This doctrine is also referred to as the "right of first sale," "first sale rule," or "exhaustion rule."
Personally, I think any tech or policy that tries to prevent or obfuscate use game sales breaks this law, and should be technically illegal (since the cited law was put in place expressly to protect used sales of any kind). If the 720 actually has used game blocks on it, and if it were up to me, a class-action suit would be brought against MS on this basis.
First sale says that physical copies of media can be transferred (after the titular 'first sale') between parties without the rightsholder being entitled to compensation. That's all it says. It doesn't say the tech has to support it or that the rightsholder has to otherwise do anything to enable that transaction.
So you download a game onto your Xbox1080 and play it from the hard drive. You get tired of it and decide to sell it... now what? You can't legally make a copy of it. You can't legally circumvent its DRM to transfer the license (DMCA.) You could transfer the license to your whole hard drive/dlc/account to someone else, but aside from the many other reasons you probably don't want to do that, microsoft will only let you license transfer twice a year.
Digital media have upended the (physical) framework copyright was previously based on; that isn't a phenomenon that works exclusively in favor of infringers et al. We are at some point going to need a more robust legislative formulation of fair use, if we want these rights to continue to exist.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
I think it's a good idea for developers to give incentives to buy new. Like when you get some extra cosmetic item or whatever from getting a new copy. It works, people might be swayed by it to buy new and give more money to the developers and since most of those extras can be bought seperately, it's not like people who buy used and then want that content will miss out.
I've only bought used once this gen and felt like a skanky ho afterwards, so I went and bought the game new on sale.
Also one of the disks was scratched to buggery and didn't work.
I'm not a fan of used, it drains money from the industry, and I don't really care how many people claim the opposite; if you are giving a store money for a product, that money could have been better distributed to the devs than simply to that store's bottom line, to fund new games and technologies.
Still better than piracy though.
I use DD for most of my gamers these days, hoping that with the next gen we will have even more progress in that area, I'm not really bothered about disks anymore. Always thought I'd be massively nostalgic for carts / disks but meh, DD just seems so much more streamlined, easy to fire up and easy to tidy...
@Eat It You Nasty Pig. : I'm not talking about digital games yet; I'm only talking about physical media, the used game discs that the NextBox would obfuscate using. What concerns me is that part that says the original copyright holder's authority to control ownership "ends" once the first sale is made, and any anti-used countermeasures would be the original copyright holder (in this case, the licensor, MS) trying to control ownership. A product, once sold used, has to work the exact same way as it did after the first sale, according to this, and anti-used countermeasures would fly in the face of that.
I don't think digital should be treated differently, but that's a different discussion. As for physical used game discs, I think any attempt to use tech to obfuscate their use would be MS and gamemakers attempting to control ownership of the disc after the first sale, thus breaking the law.
I just find it hilarious at how this industry has managed to make people feel guilty about buying used.
Do you feel like a "skanky ho" because you bought a used textbook? A used car? The only time I'd feel bad is if I bought used from a seedy place like Gamestop.
Well, textbook folk are terrible people in my uninformed but highly judgmental eyes. I enjoy taking money from them, but I don't think I've achieved "skanky ho" status just yet.
Well, sir, considering I know several people who do inventory work for gamestop, both now and in the past, and the fact that gamestop released an official memo dictating this new policy some years back...
No, it isn't false. This is literally how gamestop does it. You have to specifically make the order yourself, to acquire copies of any games wherein there is not a publisher deal to push x amount of stock.
So while your description might fit other retailers (Its how Target does it, I know this for a fact having worked their logistics.) Gamestop makes a point of not doing it that way, purely to increased used sales. At least in Pa, Ga and NM.
Gamestop's Inventory Control department as well as the Central Inventory Processing Unit are located in Grapevine, Texas. About two miles from the Gamestop corporate offices. There are satellite warehouses, yes, but all inventory control for any specific Gamestop location is dictated by these two entities, with influence made to the consideration points mentioned earlier by input by Store Managers and District Managers from each location.
I was stationed in Fort Worth, Texas... a 45 minute drive from Grapevine, a trip I made often. An ex-girlfriend of mine works in IC, my former Division Supervisor works in CIPU. (Though, I, lamentably, don't know the mayor of Boston, since we've apparently resolved to influence drop.) I have toured both locations. I assure you that it is a percentage and numbers based thing.
In your situation, with Atelier Rorona, had there been five or six copies perordered at your location, they would have received one non-preorder copy... assuming there was no input from either the Store or District Managers for that location on said game. The "Borderlands Debacle" is another huge example of this from Gamestop as well as other stores. Preorder and consideration data did not nearly reflect the demand for Borderlands at release, and as such each location had (at most) two non-preorder copies in store. Gamestop had only ordered something like 150,000 copies of the game prior to this. Within three days Gamestop had ordered 580,000 copies, and then more followed. These were then distributed to stores as per demand indicated by Store Managers.
CIPU, to this day, still contains new copies of Borderlands, all of which Gearbox and 2K were paid money for.
"Never Hit"
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
I just find it hilarious at how this industry has managed to make people feel guilty about buying used.
Do you feel like a "skanky ho" because you bought a used textbook? A used car? The only time I'd feel bad is if I bought used from a seedy place like Gamestop.
I usually feel pretty good when I spot a game that's on my list but not really "Must have" on the used games shelf. I just think "Well, if you guys had made a better game, then I would have bought it new on day 1!". Now for example the soon to be released "Kingdom of Amalur: Reckoning"? I will buy it new. Not just because I want it on day 1, but also because I want to support the developers, cause they've been pretty damn awesome so far.
I just find it hilarious at how this industry has managed to make people feel guilty about buying used.
Do you feel like a "skanky ho" because you bought a used textbook? A used car? The only time I'd feel bad is if I bought used from a seedy place like Gamestop.
No kidding. I've traded games in, and then used that credit to buy new games. Just like old text books for new ones, an old car for a new one, etc.
The industry is basically banking on the fact people don't understand economics. It's such a dishonest, cynical propaganda push. And it's particularly dishonest consider their own pricing model is what causes it.
I read a lot that buying used hurts the economy but I've actually never seen proof in that regard. You would think developers and publishers might finance a study that would strengthen their claim. (this assume that they don't already know they are full of shit)
But to make up for all the people that feel guilty for not giving international corporations $60 bucks for a game, I'll go buy used games for them & send them the game. That way they can remain guilt-free while still buying used. Win-win.
that's the thing, some act like people buying used don't care about developers. that's just crap, in fact i try to buy new when i can, especially if it's one i know will be worth my $60. it's not a cheap hobby and game companies don't seem to want to see it from our perspective.
That's funny, because earlier you said if you couldn't buy it used you wouldn't buy it
@Eat It You Nasty Pig. : I'm not talking about digital games yet; I'm only talking about physical media, the used game discs that the NextBox would obfuscate using. What concerns me is that part that says the original copyright holder's authority to control ownership "ends" once the first sale is made, and any anti-used countermeasures would be the original copyright holder (in this case, the licensor, MS) trying to control ownership. A product, once sold used, has to work the exact same way as it did after the first sale, according to this, and anti-used countermeasures would fly in the face of that.
I don't think digital should be treated differently, but that's a different discussion. As for physical used game discs, I think any attempt to use tech to obfuscate their use would be MS and gamemakers attempting to control ownership of the disc after the first sale, thus breaking the law.
right, and you're wrong, because that isn't how the law works
ed: the most courts have consistently said is that you can't EULA first sale out of existence. There's no reason physical media can't account lock, for example (as some retail PC games with online components do with CD-keys)
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
from the front page of PA, tycho gives his insight:
I guess it’s a rumor, but according to the Law of Dauntless Prophecy, all Microsoft rumors are true: “word” on the “street” is that the Xbox 720 will sport some inherent means of combating used sales. This has been an incredible opportunity to dish up steaming populist goulash, a dish I have a hard time watching people eat.
The fantasy scenario for publishers is to sell you something, and still own it. I would make a terrible despot, because that’s the sort of thing that wouldn’t occur to me. I may not be the Prince Of Empathy or whatever, but at the same time it seems strange to me to sell partially substantiated un-things. In some ways, though, we’re already there.
Actually, no - we are there, on the PC, and we’re getting close on the major gaming appliances. It didn’t destroy PC games to have single use codes, or to have the defacto digital service give no recourse for trading in software. It didn’t result in those theoretically lower prices for new games, and outside of the occasional shadowy enclave, Steam is considered the morally impervious Gold Standard.
I’m on record as saying I don’t agree with the practice of purchasing used software, and it’s my choice not to engage in it. I deperately want to retain that choice, because it lets me feel superior. But disallowing trade-ins via some techniwhatsit or woozle isn’t productive - it’s lose, lose, lose from a consumer perspective. Day-and-date Digital Delivery would have all the same “features” as regards a user’s control over their property though, but people hate it less, for reasons I can’t entirely explain.
that's the thing, some act like people buying used don't care about developers. that's just crap, in fact i try to buy new when i can, especially if it's one i know will be worth my $60. it's not a cheap hobby and game companies don't seem to want to see it from our perspective.
That's funny, because earlier you said if you couldn't buy it used you wouldn't buy it
So, like
Which
it's a case by case scenario. a series i'm a fan of i will be sure to buy new. a game based on a new IP with no demo, i will wait for it to be used (or rent it).
If I sell a game of Monopoly at a yard sale am I a bad person? Is the buyer a bad person? How would that be any different from buying and selling a used video game? That's as simple as a I can put it.
An older game should cost less, until sellers realize this I'm not going feel bad about buying used. I was at the store the other day and Scribblenauts and Super Scribblenauts were both selling for the same price. I've seen a similar situation with MHF2 and Unite. Besides that, are we just not allowed to buy old games now? What if it's not for sale new anymore? Is buying a gamecube game I didn't even know existed bad? A NES game? Where is the cut off point?
I have to wonder if a lot of this used game buyer hate is just hate for the "wait until it goes on sale" crowd.
people keeping calling out gamestop over and over, but if they didn't exist another just like them would! the used market wouldn't magically go away. customers still want these expensive games at cheaper prices; if the devs and publishers see it as a big issue maybe the should start else where, like downsizing their massive budgets, their huge teams, and overall just stop wasting money. THQ dug themselves into a huge whole, and it was NOT the fault of the used game industry but because they throw money at anything and made very little back.
companies can bemoan lost sales to used games but until they make games more affordable people will seek out ways to buy used. the limitations they place on used buyers often aren't enough to deter them from buying used, so it's a stupid system that treats the offline customer who buys NEW like they are buying used.
it's fucked up
I don't hate buying used games. In some line of logic its just supporting a store that will then sell new games. My hate starts up (and pretty much ends with) Gamestop in the way that they get the bulk of their profit from used games, and push them accordingly. That's not a wrong thing to do, but I'm not so happy to buy used games to support a store that will then sell used games more prominently than it'll try to sell a new game.
Unless its a buy two get one free sale. Then all of my values are out the window.
I just find it hilarious at how this industry has managed to make people feel guilty about buying used.
Do you feel like a "skanky ho" because you bought a used textbook? A used car? The only time I'd feel bad is if I bought used from a seedy place like Gamestop.
No kidding. I've traded games in, and then used that credit to buy new games. Just like old text books for new ones, an old car for a new one, etc.
The industry is basically banking on the fact people don't understand economics. It's such a dishonest, cynical propaganda push. And it's particularly dishonest consider their own pricing model is what causes it.
Yeah, basically I bought from a seedy place which is why I felt filthy afterwards. Not many places to buy used round here which aren't seedy.
Worth pointing out here that not all posters are American.
Here in the UK the major chains push out used games at almost new prices but shave a couple of pounds off, and they typically dominate shelf space, and are almost indistinguishable from the new products. GAME are terrible for this.
Also, programjunkie, I understand economics just fine, and I don't want to give shitty retail juggernauts the money which would otherwise go to developers just to save a couple of quid, thanks.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
I don't hate buying used games. In some line of logic its just supporting a store that will then sell new games. My hate starts up (and pretty much ends with) Gamestop in the way that they get the bulk of their profit from used games, and push them accordingly. That's not a wrong thing to do, but I'm not so happy to buy used games to support a store that will then sell used games more prominently than it'll try to sell a new game.
Unless its a buy two get one free sale. Then all of my values are out the window.
Gamestop has a vested interest in that used sale which I really don't fault them for. Margins on new titles are really thin and without the used sales Gamestop could not stay in business.
people keeping calling out gamestop over and over, but if they didn't exist another just like them would! the used market wouldn't magically go away. customers still want these expensive games at cheaper prices; if the devs and publishers see it as a big issue maybe the should start else where, like downsizing their massive budgets, their huge teams, and overall just stop wasting money. THQ dug themselves into a huge whole, and it was NOT the fault of the used game industry but because they throw money at anything and made very little back.
companies can bemoan lost sales to used games but until they make games more affordable people will seek out ways to buy used. the limitations they place on used buyers often aren't enough to deter them from buying used, so it's a stupid system that treats the offline customer who buys NEW like they are buying used.
it's fucked up
people keeping calling out gamestop over and over, but if they didn't exist another just like them would! the used market wouldn't magically go away. customers still want these expensive games at cheaper prices; if the devs and publishers see it as a big issue maybe the should start else where, like downsizing their massive budgets, their huge teams, and overall just stop wasting money. THQ dug themselves into a huge whole, and it was NOT the fault of the used game industry but because they throw money at anything and made very little back.
companies can bemoan lost sales to used games but until they make games more affordable people will seek out ways to buy used. the limitations they place on used buyers often aren't enough to deter them from buying used, so it's a stupid system that treats the offline customer who buys NEW like they are buying used.
it's fucked up
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So what does this mean for people who buy the 720 late and want to play a launch game? Are they just SOL or is this just a system-wide MS version of EA's Project $5? I am not sure I understand why MS rightly cares whether I buy used (I usually don't, but that's more because I am a preorder guy than because I am against used sales). Sure, they publish some games, but most of their money, I would think, comes from XBL memberships and purchases. And from (I think) publishers paying MS to get their game on the system.
i for one won't support an all digital console, and it's also why i've shied away from PC gaming. steam may be successful now but the landscape can radically changed in 5-10 years.
i prefer physical copies of my games because even if my console does crap out i can invest in a new one and still play my games (i've gone through like 2 dreamcasts and 4 PS2's). i'm looking for assurance my money isn't going down the drain, even if it is far off. i still have my original SNES and all the games i had when i was younger, but an all digital system does not have that kind of advantage.
Don't see how physical media is a better assurance that your money isn't going down the drain. You said it yourself, you've had numerous consoles crap out on you, physical media and hardware is by no means a permanent investment. Your consoles, your cartridges, heck even CD's and DVD's can only last so long.
Meanwhile, digital media is convenient, you can redownload the same games to your account numerous times, and should be compatible with future hardware and OS versions.
i for one won't support an all digital console, and it's also why i've shied away from PC gaming. steam may be successful now but the landscape can radically changed in 5-10 years.
i prefer physical copies of my games because even if my console does crap out i can invest in a new one and still play my games (i've gone through like 2 dreamcasts and 4 PS2's). i'm looking for assurance my money isn't going down the drain, even if it is far off. i still have my original SNES and all the games i had when i was younger, but an all digital system does not have that kind of advantage.
Don't see how physical media is a better assurance that your money isn't going down the drain. You said it yourself, you've had numerous consoles crap out on you, physical media and hardware is by no means a permanent investment. Your consoles, your cartridges, heck even CD's and DVD's can only last so long.
Meanwhile, digital media is convenient, you can redownload the same games to your account numerous times, and should be compatible with future hardware and OS versions.
the idea that my media will one day dissapear is less likely because i take pretty good care of my stuff. i've managed to keep PS1 discs in great condition since i was 10, so the fact that i do have those games 11 years later i think says something.
i don't like the idea that my games aren't physically mine, because if their services go away i might not be able to get stuff again (no matter how unlikely that is). is it a silly fear? maybe. but i trust myself to take better care of my possessions than a company.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
i for one won't support an all digital console, and it's also why i've shied away from PC gaming. steam may be successful now but the landscape can radically changed in 5-10 years.
i prefer physical copies of my games because even if my console does crap out i can invest in a new one and still play my games (i've gone through like 2 dreamcasts and 4 PS2's). i'm looking for assurance my money isn't going down the drain, even if it is far off. i still have my original SNES and all the games i had when i was younger, but an all digital system does not have that kind of advantage.
Don't see how physical media is a better assurance that your money isn't going down the drain. You said it yourself, you've had numerous consoles crap out on you, physical media and hardware is by no means a permanent investment. Your consoles, your cartridges, heck even CD's and DVD's can only last so long.
Meanwhile, digital media is convenient, you can redownload the same games to your account numerous times, and should be compatible with future hardware and OS versions.
On a PC this is true.
I have to admit though I am a little nervous to see what happens with the next Gen of consoles.
I can imagine buying a Xbox 720 or PS4 and going in to their respective online stores looking to download all the awesome I currently have on the 360 and PS3 only to have a message pop up saying all the crap I bought before is not compatible for the new Gen console. Then they offer me a link to where I can buy the 720 or PS4 version.
I'm pretty sure I am being paranoid, but man you got to admit that does sound like something they would do. Hell, I'd be willing to bet a month's salary that they have at least toyed with the idea.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
i for one won't support an all digital console, and it's also why i've shied away from PC gaming. steam may be successful now but the landscape can radically changed in 5-10 years.
i prefer physical copies of my games because even if my console does crap out i can invest in a new one and still play my games (i've gone through like 2 dreamcasts and 4 PS2's). i'm looking for assurance my money isn't going down the drain, even if it is far off. i still have my original SNES and all the games i had when i was younger, but an all digital system does not have that kind of advantage.
Don't see how physical media is a better assurance that your money isn't going down the drain. You said it yourself, you've had numerous consoles crap out on you, physical media and hardware is by no means a permanent investment. Your consoles, your cartridges, heck even CD's and DVD's can only last so long.
Meanwhile, digital media is convenient, you can redownload the same games to your account numerous times, and should be compatible with future hardware and OS versions.
Redownload multiple times? Compatible with future hardware/OS? Don't worry, Ubisoft is on the case to stop that!.
i for one won't support an all digital console, and it's also why i've shied away from PC gaming. steam may be successful now but the landscape can radically changed in 5-10 years.
i prefer physical copies of my games because even if my console does crap out i can invest in a new one and still play my games (i've gone through like 2 dreamcasts and 4 PS2's). i'm looking for assurance my money isn't going down the drain, even if it is far off. i still have my original SNES and all the games i had when i was younger, but an all digital system does not have that kind of advantage.
Don't see how physical media is a better assurance that your money isn't going down the drain. You said it yourself, you've had numerous consoles crap out on you, physical media and hardware is by no means a permanent investment. Your consoles, your cartridges, heck even CD's and DVD's can only last so long.
Meanwhile, digital media is convenient, you can redownload the same games to your account numerous times, and should be compatible with future hardware and OS versions.
the idea that my media will one day dissapear is less likely because i take pretty good care of my stuff. i've managed to keep PS1 discs in great condition since i was 10, so the fact that i do have those games 11 years later i think says something.
All of that media is still dependent on a console that's no longer made or supported, and as you've mentioned, you've had quite a few consoles crap out on you.
Meanwhile I have Valve games that I bought over a decade ago, and I can still redownload those games for free on my current system thanks to Steam.
i don't like the idea that my games aren't physically mine, because if their services go away i might not be able to get stuff again (no matter how unlikely that is). is it a silly fear? maybe. but i trust myself to take better care of my possessions than a company.
With stuff like Steam, my understanding is on the off chance they're supposed to go offline, they'll remove all of the drm. And with games I buy off of GoG, it's not a fear to begin with, as their downloads are drm free. I can backup my copies of Baldur's Gate I and II from GoG as many times as I wish and play it from any of those backups.
Personally, I love digital media. It lets people buy new copies of older games relatively cheaply that's made to run on current gen systems. there are games that are decades old that are still supported and made available through retail sites thanks to digital media. Long after the last PS1 and SNES crap out, there will still be digital copies of those games for people to play.
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Ov3rchargeR.I.P. Mass EffectYou were dead to me for yearsRegistered Userregular
I kind of wonder which the developers would prefer, actually. They don't see any money in either case... and pirated copies don't financially support the used game industry.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Do you feel like a "skanky ho" because you bought a used textbook? A used car?
In a word: yes. I would never buy a used car or book.
I only buy used on games I'm really unsure about, and I typically end up disliking them anyways, so that works out to "fuck the developer anyways"
Holy fuck I wish I had the cash you did.
Alternatively, perhaps he doesn't buy as much anymore? I mean I could buy tons of games now and I'm in a good position in life - but I'm not going to because time just won't allow it. Sometimes you can just buy less things but have the satisfaction of knowing you were their one and only owner.
Do you feel like a "skanky ho" because you bought a used textbook? A used car?
In a word: yes. I would never buy a used car or book.
I only buy used on games I'm really unsure about, and I typically end up disliking them anyways, so that works out to "fuck the developer anyways"
Holy fuck I wish I had the cash you did.
Alternatively, perhaps he doesn't buy as much anymore? I mean I could buy tons of games now and I'm in a good position in life - but I'm not going to because time just won't allow it. Sometimes you can just buy less things but have the satisfaction of knowing you were their one and only owner.
There's a small glimmer of truth to that, but smug satisfaction can be a hard sell for something that amounts to recycled bytes, and not a car seat cushion that has had another human butt sitting on it years before yours. Even games that reside on a physical medium still occupy a very tenuous position as tangible goods that can be readily compared to things like cars and books.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
Personally, I think any tech or policy that tries to prevent or obfuscate use game sales breaks this law, and should be technically illegal (since the cited law was put in place expressly to protect used sales of any kind). If the 720 actually has used game blocks on it, and if it were up to me, a class-action suit would be brought against MS on this basis.
First sale says that physical copies of media can be transferred (after the titular 'first sale') between parties without the rightsholder being entitled to compensation. That's all it says. It doesn't say the tech has to support it or that the rightsholder has to otherwise do anything to enable that transaction.
So you download a game onto your Xbox1080 and play it from the hard drive. You get tired of it and decide to sell it... now what? You can't legally make a copy of it. You can't legally circumvent its DRM to transfer the license (DMCA.) You could transfer the license to your whole hard drive/dlc/account to someone else, but aside from the many other reasons you probably don't want to do that, microsoft will only let you license transfer twice a year.
Digital media have upended the (physical) framework copyright was previously based on; that isn't a phenomenon that works exclusively in favor of infringers et al. We are at some point going to need a more robust legislative formulation of fair use, if we want these rights to continue to exist.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Also one of the disks was scratched to buggery and didn't work.
I'm not a fan of used, it drains money from the industry, and I don't really care how many people claim the opposite; if you are giving a store money for a product, that money could have been better distributed to the devs than simply to that store's bottom line, to fund new games and technologies.
Still better than piracy though.
I use DD for most of my gamers these days, hoping that with the next gen we will have even more progress in that area, I'm not really bothered about disks anymore. Always thought I'd be massively nostalgic for carts / disks but meh, DD just seems so much more streamlined, easy to fire up and easy to tidy...
I don't think digital should be treated differently, but that's a different discussion. As for physical used game discs, I think any attempt to use tech to obfuscate their use would be MS and gamemakers attempting to control ownership of the disc after the first sale, thus breaking the law.
Do you feel like a "skanky ho" because you bought a used textbook? A used car? The only time I'd feel bad is if I bought used from a seedy place like Gamestop.
Steam - Wildschwein | The Backlog
Grappling Hook Showdown - Tumblr
Gamestop's Inventory Control department as well as the Central Inventory Processing Unit are located in Grapevine, Texas. About two miles from the Gamestop corporate offices. There are satellite warehouses, yes, but all inventory control for any specific Gamestop location is dictated by these two entities, with influence made to the consideration points mentioned earlier by input by Store Managers and District Managers from each location.
I was stationed in Fort Worth, Texas... a 45 minute drive from Grapevine, a trip I made often. An ex-girlfriend of mine works in IC, my former Division Supervisor works in CIPU. (Though, I, lamentably, don't know the mayor of Boston, since we've apparently resolved to influence drop.) I have toured both locations. I assure you that it is a percentage and numbers based thing.
In your situation, with Atelier Rorona, had there been five or six copies perordered at your location, they would have received one non-preorder copy... assuming there was no input from either the Store or District Managers for that location on said game. The "Borderlands Debacle" is another huge example of this from Gamestop as well as other stores. Preorder and consideration data did not nearly reflect the demand for Borderlands at release, and as such each location had (at most) two non-preorder copies in store. Gamestop had only ordered something like 150,000 copies of the game prior to this. Within three days Gamestop had ordered 580,000 copies, and then more followed. These were then distributed to stores as per demand indicated by Store Managers.
CIPU, to this day, still contains new copies of Borderlands, all of which Gearbox and 2K were paid money for.
I usually feel pretty good when I spot a game that's on my list but not really "Must have" on the used games shelf. I just think "Well, if you guys had made a better game, then I would have bought it new on day 1!". Now for example the soon to be released "Kingdom of Amalur: Reckoning"? I will buy it new. Not just because I want it on day 1, but also because I want to support the developers, cause they've been pretty damn awesome so far.
No kidding. I've traded games in, and then used that credit to buy new games. Just like old text books for new ones, an old car for a new one, etc.
The industry is basically banking on the fact people don't understand economics. It's such a dishonest, cynical propaganda push. And it's particularly dishonest consider their own pricing model is what causes it.
I read a lot that buying used hurts the economy but I've actually never seen proof in that regard. You would think developers and publishers might finance a study that would strengthen their claim. (this assume that they don't already know they are full of shit)
But to make up for all the people that feel guilty for not giving international corporations $60 bucks for a game, I'll go buy used games for them & send them the game. That way they can remain guilt-free while still buying used. Win-win.
That's funny, because earlier you said if you couldn't buy it used you wouldn't buy it
So, like
Which
right, and you're wrong, because that isn't how the law works
ed: the most courts have consistently said is that you can't EULA first sale out of existence. There's no reason physical media can't account lock, for example (as some retail PC games with online components do with CD-keys)
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
it's a case by case scenario. a series i'm a fan of i will be sure to buy new. a game based on a new IP with no demo, i will wait for it to be used (or rent it).
An older game should cost less, until sellers realize this I'm not going feel bad about buying used. I was at the store the other day and Scribblenauts and Super Scribblenauts were both selling for the same price. I've seen a similar situation with MHF2 and Unite. Besides that, are we just not allowed to buy old games now? What if it's not for sale new anymore? Is buying a gamecube game I didn't even know existed bad? A NES game? Where is the cut off point?
I have to wonder if a lot of this used game buyer hate is just hate for the "wait until it goes on sale" crowd.
I want you to do something for me.
Everytime you press enter, press it twice.
Unless its a buy two get one free sale. Then all of my values are out the window.
Steam - Wildschwein | The Backlog
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Yeah, basically I bought from a seedy place which is why I felt filthy afterwards. Not many places to buy used round here which aren't seedy.
Worth pointing out here that not all posters are American.
Here in the UK the major chains push out used games at almost new prices but shave a couple of pounds off, and they typically dominate shelf space, and are almost indistinguishable from the new products. GAME are terrible for this.
Also, programjunkie, I understand economics just fine, and I don't want to give shitty retail juggernauts the money which would otherwise go to developers just to save a couple of quid, thanks.
Gamestop has a vested interest in that used sale which I really don't fault them for. Margins on new titles are really thin and without the used sales Gamestop could not stay in business.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
This made me laugh :P thanks!
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
if you dislike the way i type there's a handy ignore function
In a word: yes. I would never buy a used car or book.
I only buy used on games I'm really unsure about, and I typically end up disliking them anyways, so that works out to "fuck the developer anyways"
Don't see how physical media is a better assurance that your money isn't going down the drain. You said it yourself, you've had numerous consoles crap out on you, physical media and hardware is by no means a permanent investment. Your consoles, your cartridges, heck even CD's and DVD's can only last so long.
Meanwhile, digital media is convenient, you can redownload the same games to your account numerous times, and should be compatible with future hardware and OS versions.
i don't like the idea that my games aren't physically mine, because if their services go away i might not be able to get stuff again (no matter how unlikely that is). is it a silly fear? maybe. but i trust myself to take better care of my possessions than a company.
On a PC this is true.
I have to admit though I am a little nervous to see what happens with the next Gen of consoles.
I can imagine buying a Xbox 720 or PS4 and going in to their respective online stores looking to download all the awesome I currently have on the 360 and PS3 only to have a message pop up saying all the crap I bought before is not compatible for the new Gen console. Then they offer me a link to where I can buy the 720 or PS4 version.
I'm pretty sure I am being paranoid, but man you got to admit that does sound like something they would do. Hell, I'd be willing to bet a month's salary that they have at least toyed with the idea.
Redownload multiple times? Compatible with future hardware/OS? Don't worry, Ubisoft is on the case to stop that!.
All of that media is still dependent on a console that's no longer made or supported, and as you've mentioned, you've had quite a few consoles crap out on you.
Meanwhile I have Valve games that I bought over a decade ago, and I can still redownload those games for free on my current system thanks to Steam.
With stuff like Steam, my understanding is on the off chance they're supposed to go offline, they'll remove all of the drm. And with games I buy off of GoG, it's not a fear to begin with, as their downloads are drm free. I can backup my copies of Baldur's Gate I and II from GoG as many times as I wish and play it from any of those backups.
Personally, I love digital media. It lets people buy new copies of older games relatively cheaply that's made to run on current gen systems. there are games that are decades old that are still supported and made available through retail sites thanks to digital media. Long after the last PS1 and SNES crap out, there will still be digital copies of those games for people to play.
Holy fuck I wish I had the cash you did.
I kind of wonder which the developers would prefer, actually. They don't see any money in either case... and pirated copies don't financially support the used game industry.
Alternatively, perhaps he doesn't buy as much anymore? I mean I could buy tons of games now and I'm in a good position in life - but I'm not going to because time just won't allow it. Sometimes you can just buy less things but have the satisfaction of knowing you were their one and only owner.
There's a small glimmer of truth to that, but smug satisfaction can be a hard sell for something that amounts to recycled bytes, and not a car seat cushion that has had another human butt sitting on it years before yours. Even games that reside on a physical medium still occupy a very tenuous position as tangible goods that can be readily compared to things like cars and books.
What about a used house?
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.