So what should I do to get ready for ranked anyway? Do I need individual rune pages for every champ I generally play?
For ranked, you typically want to have at least two champs of each role before you venture into it. Otherwise you might find yourself forced to play a role you are not at all comfortable with.
For runes, as long as you have runes that supplement your different roles well it's fine. Some basic mpen/arpen/ad reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl /cdr blues and ap/arpen/ad/movespeed quints work wonders. Like say for ap you can go mpen/arm/cdr/ap and that is fine for most of the champs, ad carries you might want ad/arm/mr/ad while some bruisers like wukong and urgot prefer the arpen. Individual rune pages might be abit overboard, but it certainly does not hurt (though I have rather standardized rune pages myself)
I'm just going to throw it out there that maybe you should play a few ranked games with whatever you have to get an idea of where you stand before buying a fuckin' runepage bundle for...what, $20? future's post overthinks playing average elo ranked to a revolting degree, honestly. 3-4 champs for each role is 15-20 champs that you like playing and can play adequately at whatever level you find yourself at, good luck with that if you've barely hit 30 and this is your first account.
basically I only made this post because I wanted a counterpoint to the concept of exhausting practice before jumping in. unless you play a constantly perma-banned champ, there's nothing to stop you from just going in with what you know (i.e. a role you specialize in and have the runes for atm), having fun, and probably winning because as people are saying ranked is arguably a step down from normal when you're just starting.
I'm just going to throw it out there that maybe you should play a few ranked games with whatever you have to get an idea of where you stand before buying a fuckin' runepage bundle for...what, $20? the above post overthinks playing ranked to a revolting degree, honestly. 3-4 champs for each role is 15-20 champs that you like playing and can play adequately at whatever level you find yourself at, good luck with that if you've barely hit 30 and this is your first account.
basically I only made this post because I wanted a counterpoint to the concept of exhausting practice before jumping in. unless you play a constantly perma-banned champ, there's nothing to stop you from just going in with what you know (i.e. a role you specialize in and have the runes for atm), having fun, and probably winning because as people are saying ranked is arguably a step down from normal when you're just starting.
It might be overthought, but it's not bad advice in and of itself. A lot of people are quite attached to their elo and get pretty emotional over it. The way I approach it is with the 'get lots of champs, practice the ones you really like, and be really good before you do ranked' mentality. I'm NOT going to be happy being 800 elo, that would bother me. Because of that, I didn't do ranked until I had about 300 wins. I fell a bit (1050ish), and didn't like it, so I went back to normals and practiced lots of roles. Now I'm 1176 and have sights on 1300 if I can play AD carry all the time.
If you're okay dropping a lot of elo (not saying you will), then by all means jump into ranked. That approach wasn't for me.
@Arivia It really depends on you. If you feel ready, do it.
I'm just going to throw it out there that maybe you should play a few ranked games with whatever you have to get an idea of where you stand before buying a fuckin' runepage bundle for...what, $20? the above post overthinks playing ranked to a revolting degree, honestly. 3-4 champs for each role is 15-20 champs that you like playing and can play adequately at whatever level you find yourself at, good luck with that if you've barely hit 30 and this is your first account.
basically I only made this post because I wanted a counterpoint to the concept of exhausting practice before jumping in. unless you play a constantly perma-banned champ, there's nothing to stop you from just going in with what you know (i.e. a role you specialize in and have the runes for atm), having fun, and probably winning because as people are saying ranked is arguably a step down from normal when you're just starting.
It's not, really. People rage in normals when you get stomped. But in ranked? I had three people berating me all game because I picked a champ they didn't think was top tier (Viktor). I didn't even lose my lane despite being against someone 400 elo higher than me, but since my support and jungler decided to berate me all game, they focused on me instead of the game and we lost.
Another example is say you like to jungle. It's a good role to choose because most people (in my experience) don't like to jungle so you don't have to bicker or argue about your role and even if you're last pick you can still usually get whatever champ you want. Additionally the one rune page you need for most junglers (armor seals, attack speed reds, scaling mr blues, your choice of quints) is easy to put together and fits almost every jungler apart from oddballs like Fiddlesticks. However, say you like to jungle a popular pick like Shyvana? Well her jungle is exceptionally simple compared to say Lee Sin, so if she's all you've ever jungled with and you suddenly have to jungle with Gangplank or something, you're going to get rolled and berated by your teammates all game.
And the runes? Oh man, the first time you get facerolled by a Caitlyn with 98 attack damage at level one you'll understand how important having those specific rune pages is.
I'm not super serious about ranked, but I waited to do it until I had all the stuff I talked about, because when you're playing in ranked without the right runes or with a champ you don't really understand very well, you're effectively screwing over four other people who did (or should have) put in the time and money to do the things I talked about before they jumped into it headfirst.
If you casually play 3 or 4 champs and don't really like to support or jungle, stick to normals and just deal with not being able to see your ELO.
Future Blues on
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- one example of people being insanely meta-focused to the point of losing doesn't really reflect an overall ladder-wide attitude towards the idea, and even if it exists you start at 1200 elo. the meta doesn't even come close to mattering there in proportion to if you actually can play. furthermore, in your example the fault lies with the people that choose to lose their minds and subsequently the game over perceived meta violations, not the actual meta.
- when is shyvana ever banned? in that example (where I assume the other team is locking shyvana), all you need is a competent second jungler which isn't out of the question for basically playing league at all. if you like jungling, it's kind of assumed that you'd at least have another option for when your favorite is locked. it's the stratosphere of 4-5 that's unnecessary just to begin.
- I like how you mention OH MAN LEVEL 30 RUNEPAGES like I've never been level 30 before.
- yeah, fuck everything about your "spend money to achieve a standard that no 1200 elo aims for" concept. I'm sorry but it's just ridiculous to assume that most people do that in the elo we're discussing, and it's not required to begin the ladder climb upwards at all. just because some career 1200's tryhard their asses off and might take people to task for not obeying the meta, isn't part of that their fault for having played who knows how many matches just to stagnate at the entrance level for new ranked players?
If you casually play 3 or 4 champs and don't really like to support or jungle, stick to normals and just deal with not being able to see your ELO.
this is exactly how I play what little ranked I've done (minus some janna games), except I don't play those few champs casually, I just carry with them. also, I'm kind of baffled at how you can take people to task for the rigidness of the meta and then switch over to "da fuck out of here if you don't take easy elo seriously, son!"
- one example of people being insanely meta-focused to the point of losing doesn't really reflect an overall ladder-wise attitude towards the idea, and even if it exists you start at 1200 elo. the meta doesn't even come close to mattering there in proportion to if you actually can play. furthermore, in your example the fault lies with the people that choose to lose their minds and subsequently the game over perceived meta violations, not the actual meta.
Not true. Have stomped teams that aren't meta built, have been stomped when not even around 1000 ELO.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, I was quoting his example of people crucifying themselves on the meta cross over perceived transgressions to such a degree that he believes it caused them to lose due to being distracted. it wasn't a "non-meta sucks/meta is the best!" statement.
Yes, if your ELO is higher than your opponents, then you can do more with less. Less adherence to the META, less specialized runes, less champion options for counter picking.
If you care about your ELO number, than there are things that cost IP (or RP if you are impatient) to help you get it higher, and to give you an edge where maybe the other player is technically better, but is worse equipped/prepared for you.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
What the eff, you don't need millions of IP to be competitive in ranked. I hit 30 on EU a month ago and hit 1800 with about 8000ip worth of runes.
You have the advantage of being fairly experienced however.
To a newer player, good runepages are a fairly useful crutch.
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
The problem with any true-skill system (ELO, MMR, pick your favorite), is that the best always pool at the top, and the worst always pool at the bottom, but the middle is always a cluster fuck of actual skill levels. There isn't enough skill balance in middle of any true-skill system for meta to matter nearly as much as it does at the high and low ends, where player skill tends to dovetail nicely, and things like meta and comps make a much bigger difference. It can be a total roll of the dice at the middle tiers. You can pick a perfect comp and get stomped, because the people across the way were just flat better, despite being in your general ELO range.
This is true of all true-skill systems, it's not just LoL...you see it in SC2 all the time "Haha, I just beat two gold guys in a row, but a bronze kicked my ass". Not saying the systems don't work, they are generally correct, but any sliding scale system is going to get muddy and ambiguous in the middle.
I don't have more than 3 rune pages and am currently sitting at 1322 Elo. You definitely don't need them, they're just nice to have.
The primary reason for getting more rune pages would be if you think you're 2000 Elo material or am willing to spend money on having more fun with the game.
Being good at jungling is nice in ranked since the role is available quite often.
I don't have more than 3 rune pages and am currently sitting at 1322 Elo. You definitely don't need them, they're just nice to have.
The primary reason for getting more rune pages would be if you think you're 2000 Elo material or am willing to spend money on having more fun with the game.
Being good at jungling is nice in ranked since the role is available quite often.
But you've only played 14 ranked games, that's not really enough to use elo as a viability measurement for # of rune pages.
You need about 3 rune pages to adequately cover all roles in ranked to a good degree. Depending on play style / champ preferences, you might want more, but I have 11 rune pages, and use 3 of them consistently. 1 is empty, and another is "jungle soraka," so... just saying, don't worry that much about rune pages past 3 (and two of them are 70% similar).
Just wanted to thank, Carnavon, for your awesome ww build. We were really behind, then I got my build going, Veigar got his party cap and Ziggs, who got fed early, just died and died and died. Then Cait came into my ult range when I was bashing a tower and their entire team threw everything at me while my team decimated them. I walked out alive.
Had Wit's End until just before the last couple of teamfights, then I could afford MBR and Void in one shot and got them.
- one example of people being insanely meta-focused to the point of losing doesn't really reflect an overall ladder-wide attitude towards the idea, and even if it exists you start at 1200 elo. the meta doesn't even come close to mattering there in proportion to if you actually can play. furthermore, in your example the fault lies with the people that choose to lose their minds and subsequently the game over perceived meta violations, not the actual meta.
- when is shyvana ever banned? in that example (where I assume the other team is locking shyvana), all you need is a competent second jungler which isn't out of the question for basically playing league at all. if you like jungling, it's kind of assumed that you'd at least have another option for when your favorite is locked. it's the stratosphere of 4-5 that's unnecessary just to begin.
- I like how you mention OH MAN LEVEL 30 RUNEPAGES like I've never been level 30 before.
- yeah, fuck everything about your "spend money to achieve a standard that no 1200 elo aims for" concept. I'm sorry but it's just ridiculous to assume that most people do that in the elo we're discussing, and it's not required to begin the ladder climb upwards at all. just because some career 1200's tryhard their asses off and might take people to task for not obeying the meta, isn't part of that their fault for having played who knows how many matches just to stagnate at the entrance level for new ranked players?
If you casually play 3 or 4 champs and don't really like to support or jungle, stick to normals and just deal with not being able to see your ELO.
this is exactly how I play what little ranked I've done (minus some janna games), except I don't play those few champs casually, I just carry with them. also, I'm kind of baffled at how you can take people to task for the rigidness of the meta and then switch over to "da fuck out of here if you don't take easy elo seriously, son!"
Calm the fuck down man, I'm not saying you gotta crucify yourself on the meta or spend $500 to be competitive. Nor am I calling you out specifically. I have no idea what your level or rank is and honestly, I don't care. I'm not sure why you took my post personally, I just quoted you so that there would be some context to my remarks is all. Geez.
I've seen Shyvana banned before. It's not uncommon since the M5 games and even if she's not banned, there's a good chance that somebody on the other team is going to try and pick her to jungle as well. You're not guaranteed the champion of your choice so you need to have 2 or 3 champs who can perform that role available in case things don't pan out in champ select.
Following the meta is less important than some things in ranked, but there's a reason the meta is the way it is. The next time you get totally destroyed by a good Soraka/Graves lane or Sivir/Sona lane you'll realize that. Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of the current meta. I think support is kind of a shitty role to be forced into and I dislike the farmfest top/bottom that those lanes turn into, but running a kill lane when you don't know what you're doing (or in solo queue where you don't have the communication to do it) is a recipe for disaster when you can be relatively sure that the other team is going to be sticking to the meta to some degree. I mean, it's like games without junglers. You dominate for the first 15 minutes or so, then your underleveled top duo starts getting ganked and things go downhill. In a normal game where 4 other people's shiny rank isn't on the line, it's not a huge deal to lose, but when you're playing with people who conceivably want to win and want to make sure they don't drop in rank, trying things out for the first time or playing with suboptimal rune pages is basically shitting on four other people and weighing the whole team down.
As far as I'm concerned? I don't care what my ELO is. The only reason I've been playing more ranked over normals lately is because I'm interested in statistics, which don't exist (for whatever reason) outside of ranked. With that said, I'm an adult and I realized long ago that jumping into ranked without ample preparation is detrimental to other peoples enjoyment of the game, so I put in the time (and a little bit of cash, though you could buy rune pages with IP and skip the cash if you're willing to put the time in to grind out all that IP) to make sure that I was playing at a level that conveyed a little mutual respect for people who do care about things like their ELO and their W/L record.
My final point was just that. If you want to play 2 or 3 champs specifically or you want to try something new or you don't have the right rune pages and are likely to lose your lane to someone who does then play normals until you're ready to play at the competitive level. Normals have an ELO too, it's just hidden, so the only thing you're missing is the shiny ranked badge in your profile.
And finally, as a jungler, I get a lot of blame tossed around when people lose their lanes or whatever and it's actually pretty rough to get blamed all game for a loss only to go and look in their profile after the game and realize that they have no rune pages set up and their masteries were all wrong for the character type they were running. Yes, you can last hit without +10 or 15 ad from tier 3 runes and yes you could potentially win trades, but if you're playing up against people who are equally skilled (assuming matchmaking is working to some degree) the people who do that extra 10-15 damage on their autoattacks are going to destroy you in lane and then then blame game starts.
Future Blues on
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Just wanted to thank, Carnavon, for your awesome ww build. We were really behind, then I got my build going, Veigar got his party cap and Ziggs, who got fed early, just died and died and died. Then Cait came into my ult range when I was bashing a tower and their entire team threw everything at me while my team decimated them. I walked out alive.
Had Wit's End until just before the last couple of teamfights, then I could afford MBR and Void in one shot and got them.
No problems bro, always glad to see a friend get some sick frags. Warwick is the hardest counter to teams with a single overfed champ because you can simply lock them down for long enough that the rest of your team can move in and 100->0 them.
As for MBR, the thing is that it isn't particularly effective unless you make a lot of auto attacks, are fighting people with 2000+ health, and aren't set back running with a Void Staff. Late game Warwick fulfills all those, and I think maybe Kayle can as well.
@ELOrguments: you people need to chill the fuck out, no one is going to read those hideous walls of text
Just wanted to thank, Carnavon, for your awesome ww build. We were really behind, then I got my build going, Veigar got his party cap and Ziggs, who got fed early, just died and died and died. Then Cait came into my ult range when I was bashing a tower and their entire team threw everything at me while my team decimated them. I walked out alive.
Had Wit's End until just before the last couple of teamfights, then I could afford MBR and Void in one shot and got them.
No problems bro, always glad to see a friend get some sick frags. Warwick is the hardest counter to teams with a single overfed champ because you can simply lock them down for long enough that the rest of your team can move in and 100->0 them.
As for MBR, the thing is that it isn't particularly effective unless you make a lot of auto attacks, are fighting people with 2000+ health, and aren't set back running with a Void Staff. Late game Warwick fulfills all those, and I think maybe Kayle can as well.
@ELOrguments: you people need to chill the fuck out, no one is going to read those hideous walls of text
Yeah, and when you combine WW with Veigar's ability to splatter squishy targets it becomes really effective. We've done the same kind of things before, when I've been Irelia. Just decide on one person to die and then take the correct target right out of the fight. Though WW is better at it in the combo.
EDIT: We also ran a Nautilus Lee Sin combo top, which was just filthy. Once GP was behind (he couldn't farm because slow>kick in the face>slow>hook) then I started to play roaming lee with 3xdorans, boots and vamp and bossed people around. Worked fine. Lee is crazy strong, though. I think I can beat him with Wukong, but not too sure about many others.
MrGrimoire on
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Forever Zefirocloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered Userregular
The only 2 runepages I own:
6 ArPen reds/3 AD reds, 9 Armor yellows, 9 MR/lvl blues, 3 AD quints
Just wanted to thank, Carnavon, for your awesome ww build. We were really behind, then I got my build going, Veigar got his party cap and Ziggs, who got fed early, just died and died and died. Then Cait came into my ult range when I was bashing a tower and their entire team threw everything at me while my team decimated them. I walked out alive.
Had Wit's End until just before the last couple of teamfights, then I could afford MBR and Void in one shot and got them.
No problems bro, always glad to see a friend get some sick frags. Warwick is the hardest counter to teams with a single overfed champ because you can simply lock them down for long enough that the rest of your team can move in and 100->0 them.
As for MBR, the thing is that it isn't particularly effective unless you make a lot of auto attacks, are fighting people with 2000+ health, and aren't set back running with a Void Staff. Late game Warwick fulfills all those, and I think maybe Kayle can as well.
@ELOrguments: you people need to chill the fuck out, no one is going to read those hideous walls of text
Yep, we gotta get this thread back to the "Shen is OP look at this game I won with him" meta post-haste.
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Sorry, I came across as an ass and I didn't actually mean to be rude.
I didn't feel offended. :P
It's not unreasonable to have the opinion that 40 games (77 if you count TT) in two seasons is too little experience to have a reasonable opinion on this subject. It's just that if you're that worried you should be listening to people who have really high elo and that automatically makes mine irrelevant (as well as the opinion of most people in this thread).
For full disclosure: I also mostly play AP mid and jungle so it is possible that top lane or bottom lane has more use for multiple rune pages.
I just built Madred's Bloodrazor, for the first time since I stopped building recommended items or something. This was for three reasons:
- The opposing team had Shen that I really, really wanted to kill, as he seemed to be the one holding their team together.
- I wanted to solo Baron fast, as I didn't want to rely on my team
- I was fed anyway so whatever
I think that was actually a valid use for MBR! Though Trinity Force might still have worked better, so I dunno.
Soloque ranked placement matches are weird and don't follow any meta.
Following the meta is less important than some things in ranked, but there's a reason the meta is the way it is. The next time you get totally destroyed by a good Soraka/Graves lane or Sivir/Sona lane you'll realize that.
so miserably, unnecessarily condescending. this is why I reacted with hostility, since you seem to be in the dark about how you come off.
My final point was just that. If you want to play 2 or 3 champs specifically or you want to try something new or you don't have the right rune pages and are likely to lose your lane to someone who does then play normals until you're ready to play at the competitive level. Normals have an ELO too, it's just hidden, so the only thing you're missing is the shiny ranked badge in your profile.
what exactly is the "competitive level"? do you think 600 elo ranked is competitive simply because it's ranked? you're extrapolating your overboard mindset to all levels of the ladder, man, including the ones that are nowhere close to ever needing it to function because they're struggling with all facets of the game, not questions like "hm, what should my jungler be if lee sin and skarner are banned and their first pick locks udyr...".
the ladder system accounts for different factors in playstyle, including level of determinedness to have 9 different, mostly unnecessary runepages and have champs prepared for every eventuality. that's without getting into how much that actually contributes to rating (not that much), or how you're telling a new ranked player to spend a fairly large sum of money on something that they don't and won't have the runes for yet. I find it unbearably silly to tell them to delay the process of getting acclimated to ranked games simply out of respect for...what, 1200 elo? nope, just queue up and have a blast.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
I love MBR on Warwick and Kog'maw, especially if I can afford to throw a Void Staff on there, too.
I've just been building Kog classic AD lately, rather than my on-hit hybrid phys/mag damage - I tend to save that one for when they have multiple warmogs users on their team, and/or when we have an AD Top and Jungler.
Warwick with MBR, Void Staff, Wits End and TANKY TANK TANK stuff is awesome, though. With just Randuins and Force of Nature/Spirit Visage, you can take a lot of damage, especially with your Q heals on top of that. Especially if you're hitting Vlad.
So how does ranked work exactly? I finished all my placement matches and got 1283 ELO. First game after that was a loss, so I went to 1250 or so, then the next game I play is also a loss. (My jungler and support blames me for everything, because "Viktor has no burst and that's the reason you never see him in ranked" despite the fact that I'm only 1/2 compared to the 1/5 top and 2/6 bottom.) Then the enemy mid (Brand) asks me what ELO I am and I tell him, you know, 1250 or so. He tells me he's 1500.
I thought the whole point of ELO was that you got matched into games at your level? Game determines that I'm in the 1200 bracket and then matches me against a 1500 comp? Huh?
Following the meta is less important than some things in ranked, but there's a reason the meta is the way it is. The next time you get totally destroyed by a good Soraka/Graves lane or Sivir/Sona lane you'll realize that.
...
My final point was just that. If you want to play 2 or 3 champs specifically or you want to try something new or you don't have the right rune pages and are likely to lose your lane to someone who does then play normals until you're ready to play at the competitive level. Normals have an ELO too, it's just hidden, so the only thing you're missing is the shiny ranked badge in your profile.
Getting a negatron is a solution if Leblanc isn't totally zoning you because of her damage.
A negatron cloak is 48 MR. Assuming she gets sorc shoes (but not guise) and starts with 10 MR pen you go from 0 MR to 48 MR. If she gets a guise then you get 28 MR.
So you either reduce damage by 32.32% or 21%, meaning that in order to pull even she needs to get either 28% more damage or 48% more damage from AP.
At level 6 she will have 3 ranks of q, 1 of w, e, and r. Assuming her full combo lands (e,q,r,w) she will do 606 damage + 3.41 AP
So in order, at level 6, to get her damage back to what it was if you had not had the negatron cloak is 50 AP if she has sorc shoes and guise and 85 AP if just sorc shoes.
For a single 700 gold item.
If you buy a negatron cloak as soon as you can she won't be able to zone you out because of her damage. This works against Leblanc(and not as well other champions) because Leblanc has to kill you in mid to succeed
You did, they were a bit over the top though, so i expect them to be toned down in a week or so.
All of that being said, i think I want to try a new Meta: Double top/Double bot. One of the tops has smite and can jungle after about 7 minutes. If blue, mid and smite top start blue and donate blue to mid. Bot and smiteless top start red, smiteless leashes and bot takes red on the ADd carry. (alternately run smite on the support as well, so you can super secure objectivves). Sometime before the second round of buffs come up top smite leaves lane and starts jungling. If you're purple then top starts with red. (or the AD teleports bot after killing red)
Basically the idea is to maximize the strength of your buffs early to put a lot of pressure on lanes. When you're jungling the majority of the time of your buffs is not spent in lane tossing lots of spells or adding true damage DoT do your auto attacks its spent helping the jungler go through the jungle marginally faster than the duo lane is getting xp/gold. If you don't have a jungler your mid can push (and grab his wraiths) and can do so with blue.
When it feels right, or its time to donate blue again the top with smite starts jungling, letting first top start getting solo experience/gold and securing creeps/objectives.
I am not sure "why does my matchmaking suck?" precludes you from understanding how important knowing/following the Meta is(I.E. knowing the strength of the Meta)
Goumindong on
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Cleanse is also supergood against LeBlanc. Same is true against Kassadin; they're champions who rely on doing their burst without taking feedback.
Warwick with MBR, Void Staff, Wits End and TANKY TANK TANK stuff is awesome, though. With just Randuins and Force of Nature/Spirit Visage, you can take a lot of damage, especially with your Q heals on top of that. Especially if you're hitting Vlad.
Problem with this build is that it's so very expensive. There's so much stuff that's better to get than MBR early on, and games just tend to end earlier.
The usual core for warwick is boots2+spirit visage+frozen heart+wit's end, which isn't too expensive. Then I'd get Shurelya's if team doesn't have one, else Void Staff. At that point almost 4k gold item for last spot isn't usually realistic. It can be good though.
edit: Also, Randuin's can be nice for team fights.
Following the meta is less important than some things in ranked, but there's a reason the meta is the way it is. The next time you get totally destroyed by a good Soraka/Graves lane or Sivir/Sona lane you'll realize that.
so miserably, unnecessarily condescending. this is why I reacted with hostility, since you seem to be in the dark about how you come off.
My final point was just that. If you want to play 2 or 3 champs specifically or you want to try something new or you don't have the right rune pages and are likely to lose your lane to someone who does then play normals until you're ready to play at the competitive level. Normals have an ELO too, it's just hidden, so the only thing you're missing is the shiny ranked badge in your profile.
what exactly is the "competitive level"? do you think 600 elo ranked is competitive simply because it's ranked? you're extrapolating your overboard mindset to all levels of the ladder, man, including the ones that are nowhere close to ever needing it to function because they're struggling with all facets of the game, not questions like "hm, what should my jungler be if lee sin and skarner are banned and their first pick locks udyr...".
the ladder system accounts for different factors in playstyle, including level of determinedness to have 9 different, mostly unnecessary runepages and have champs prepared for every eventuality. that's without getting into how much that actually contributes to rating (not that much), or how you're telling a new ranked player to spend a fairly large sum of money on something that they don't and won't have the runes for yet. I find it unbearably silly to tell them to delay the process of getting acclimated to ranked games simply out of respect for...what, 1200 elo? nope, just queue up and have a blast.
I'm using you as in-- people in general. Not you personally.
I think that ranked, in general, is competitive. It's the only mode that publicly displays where you stand in relation to the rest of the playerbase with a numerical rating that represents your skill.
Getting acclimated to ranked games? There's no difference between ranked and normals besides the fact that one is competitive (and displays your skill level publicly) and the other isn't. Play normal draft if you want to get "acclimated to playing ranked games".
What you're saying is "Hey, do whatever you want and fuck the other people in ranked, because hey I don't have rune pages set up and all I can play is Kog'Maw." I'm saying to play normals until you can handle all your roles well, have a few common rune pages set up, and are ready to play a team game with 4 other people who will really appreciate the fact that you came to the competitive scene prepared as best you could.
Runes are bullshit. There's a reason why you can't buy them with RP, but instead have to buy "IP Boosts" in order to speed up the time it takes to get the IP for your rune pages together. It's pay to win and it sucks, but that's the nature of the game and if you're going to play in ranked, please please come prepared so that the other four people on your teams aren't wasting their time when they get into a game that you can't possibly compete in because you're 3 items down worth of stats at the beginning of the game.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Warwick with MBR, Void Staff, Wits End and TANKY TANK TANK stuff is awesome, though. With just Randuins and Force of Nature/Spirit Visage, you can take a lot of damage, especially with your Q heals on top of that. Especially if you're hitting Vlad.
Problem with this build is that it's so very expensive. There's so much stuff that's better to get than MBR early on, and games just tend to end earlier.
The usual core for warwick is boots2+spirit visage+frozen heart+wit's end, which isn't too expensive. Then I'd get Shurelya's if team doesn't have one, else Void Staff. At that point almost 4k gold item for last spot isn't usually realistic. It can be good though.
edit: Also, Randuin's can be nice for team fights.
Yeah, that's what I do usually, the Void Staff and MBR are at the end of the game.
and are ready to play a team game with 4 other people who will really appreciate the fact that you came to the competitive scene prepared as best you could.
I am not sure "why does my matchmaking suck?" precludes you from understanding how important knowing/following the Meta is(I.E. knowing the strength of the Meta)
I'm more commenting on the swap from being 12 games into ranked @ ~1200 elo to "yeah I know this ignore the others and listen to me." Especially when at least two of the people who're contradicting him are 1800+ players with an order of magnitude more ranked games.
I mean, I know he's played like 1000 normal games so he should know about the meta. Incidentally I agree with the meta being the most competitive way to play. I disagree with the view that ranked is srsbsns. I think his perceptions about ranked are skewed. I think torgairon put it best.
what exactly is the "competitive level"? do you think 600 elo ranked is competitive simply because it's ranked? you're extrapolating your overboard mindset to all levels of the ladder, man, including the ones that are nowhere close to ever needing it to function because they're struggling with all facets of the game, not questions like "hm, what should my jungler be if lee sin and skarner are banned and their first pick locks udyr...".
I am not sure "why does my matchmaking suck?" precludes you from understanding how important knowing/following the Meta is(I.E. knowing the strength of the Meta)
I'm more commenting on the swap from being 12 games into ranked @ ~1200 elo to "yeah I know this ignore the others and listen to me." Especially when at least two of the people who're contradicting him are 1800+ players with an order of magnitude more ranked games.
I mean, I know he's played like 1000 normal games so he should know about the meta. Incidentally I agree with the meta being the most competitive way to play. I disagree with the view that ranked is srsbsns. I think his perceptions about ranked are skewed. I think torgairon put it best.
what exactly is the "competitive level"? do you think 600 elo ranked is competitive simply because it's ranked? you're extrapolating your overboard mindset to all levels of the ladder, man, including the ones that are nowhere close to ever needing it to function because they're struggling with all facets of the game, not questions like "hm, what should my jungler be if lee sin and skarner are banned and their first pick locks udyr...".
So you're saying that people at 600 ELO aren't playing to win? That they don't care about their rating at all? I see 10-20 posts a day on the general forums about "ELO Hell" and how to get out of it, why people are stuck in it, why do my teammates suck so much, etc.
People care just as much about their teammates and their ELO at low ELOs as the pros do. Maybe moreso. I'm sure there's a lot more paranoia about your teammates when you're down in the ditches trying to pull yourself up by your bootstraps than pro streamers have at 2000 ELO where they pretty much recognize everybody they go up against because the pool of players is so much more compact.
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For ranked, you typically want to have at least two champs of each role before you venture into it. Otherwise you might find yourself forced to play a role you are not at all comfortable with.
For runes, as long as you have runes that supplement your different roles well it's fine. Some basic mpen/arpen/ad reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl /cdr blues and ap/arpen/ad/movespeed quints work wonders. Like say for ap you can go mpen/arm/cdr/ap and that is fine for most of the champs, ad carries you might want ad/arm/mr/ad while some bruisers like wukong and urgot prefer the arpen. Individual rune pages might be abit overboard, but it certainly does not hurt (though I have rather standardized rune pages myself)
LoL EU West nickname: Irridan
basically I only made this post because I wanted a counterpoint to the concept of exhausting practice before jumping in. unless you play a constantly perma-banned champ, there's nothing to stop you from just going in with what you know (i.e. a role you specialize in and have the runes for atm), having fun, and probably winning because as people are saying ranked is arguably a step down from normal when you're just starting.
It might be overthought, but it's not bad advice in and of itself. A lot of people are quite attached to their elo and get pretty emotional over it. The way I approach it is with the 'get lots of champs, practice the ones you really like, and be really good before you do ranked' mentality. I'm NOT going to be happy being 800 elo, that would bother me. Because of that, I didn't do ranked until I had about 300 wins. I fell a bit (1050ish), and didn't like it, so I went back to normals and practiced lots of roles. Now I'm 1176 and have sights on 1300 if I can play AD carry all the time.
If you're okay dropping a lot of elo (not saying you will), then by all means jump into ranked. That approach wasn't for me.
@Arivia It really depends on you. If you feel ready, do it.
It's not, really. People rage in normals when you get stomped. But in ranked? I had three people berating me all game because I picked a champ they didn't think was top tier (Viktor). I didn't even lose my lane despite being against someone 400 elo higher than me, but since my support and jungler decided to berate me all game, they focused on me instead of the game and we lost.
Another example is say you like to jungle. It's a good role to choose because most people (in my experience) don't like to jungle so you don't have to bicker or argue about your role and even if you're last pick you can still usually get whatever champ you want. Additionally the one rune page you need for most junglers (armor seals, attack speed reds, scaling mr blues, your choice of quints) is easy to put together and fits almost every jungler apart from oddballs like Fiddlesticks. However, say you like to jungle a popular pick like Shyvana? Well her jungle is exceptionally simple compared to say Lee Sin, so if she's all you've ever jungled with and you suddenly have to jungle with Gangplank or something, you're going to get rolled and berated by your teammates all game.
And the runes? Oh man, the first time you get facerolled by a Caitlyn with 98 attack damage at level one you'll understand how important having those specific rune pages is.
I'm not super serious about ranked, but I waited to do it until I had all the stuff I talked about, because when you're playing in ranked without the right runes or with a champ you don't really understand very well, you're effectively screwing over four other people who did (or should have) put in the time and money to do the things I talked about before they jumped into it headfirst.
If you casually play 3 or 4 champs and don't really like to support or jungle, stick to normals and just deal with not being able to see your ELO.
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
- when is shyvana ever banned? in that example (where I assume the other team is locking shyvana), all you need is a competent second jungler which isn't out of the question for basically playing league at all. if you like jungling, it's kind of assumed that you'd at least have another option for when your favorite is locked. it's the stratosphere of 4-5 that's unnecessary just to begin.
- I like how you mention OH MAN LEVEL 30 RUNEPAGES like I've never been level 30 before.
- yeah, fuck everything about your "spend money to achieve a standard that no 1200 elo aims for" concept. I'm sorry but it's just ridiculous to assume that most people do that in the elo we're discussing, and it's not required to begin the ladder climb upwards at all. just because some career 1200's tryhard their asses off and might take people to task for not obeying the meta, isn't part of that their fault for having played who knows how many matches just to stagnate at the entrance level for new ranked players?
this is exactly how I play what little ranked I've done (minus some janna games), except I don't play those few champs casually, I just carry with them. also, I'm kind of baffled at how you can take people to task for the rigidness of the meta and then switch over to "da fuck out of here if you don't take easy elo seriously, son!"
Not true. Have stomped teams that aren't meta built, have been stomped when not even around 1000 ELO.
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If you care about your ELO number, than there are things that cost IP (or RP if you are impatient) to help you get it higher, and to give you an edge where maybe the other player is technically better, but is worse equipped/prepared for you.
MWO: Adamski
To a newer player, good runepages are a fairly useful crutch.
This is true of all true-skill systems, it's not just LoL...you see it in SC2 all the time "Haha, I just beat two gold guys in a row, but a bronze kicked my ass". Not saying the systems don't work, they are generally correct, but any sliding scale system is going to get muddy and ambiguous in the middle.
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Which just ratchets the ambiguity and chance for anomaly up to level 10.
The primary reason for getting more rune pages would be if you think you're 2000 Elo material or am willing to spend money on having more fun with the game.
Being good at jungling is nice in ranked since the role is available quite often.
But you've only played 14 ranked games, that's not really enough to use elo as a viability measurement for # of rune pages.
Sorry, I came across as an ass and I didn't actually mean to be rude.
Just wanted to thank, Carnavon, for your awesome ww build. We were really behind, then I got my build going, Veigar got his party cap and Ziggs, who got fed early, just died and died and died. Then Cait came into my ult range when I was bashing a tower and their entire team threw everything at me while my team decimated them. I walked out alive.
Had Wit's End until just before the last couple of teamfights, then I could afford MBR and Void in one shot and got them.
Calm the fuck down man, I'm not saying you gotta crucify yourself on the meta or spend $500 to be competitive. Nor am I calling you out specifically. I have no idea what your level or rank is and honestly, I don't care. I'm not sure why you took my post personally, I just quoted you so that there would be some context to my remarks is all. Geez.
I've seen Shyvana banned before. It's not uncommon since the M5 games and even if she's not banned, there's a good chance that somebody on the other team is going to try and pick her to jungle as well. You're not guaranteed the champion of your choice so you need to have 2 or 3 champs who can perform that role available in case things don't pan out in champ select.
Following the meta is less important than some things in ranked, but there's a reason the meta is the way it is. The next time you get totally destroyed by a good Soraka/Graves lane or Sivir/Sona lane you'll realize that. Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of the current meta. I think support is kind of a shitty role to be forced into and I dislike the farmfest top/bottom that those lanes turn into, but running a kill lane when you don't know what you're doing (or in solo queue where you don't have the communication to do it) is a recipe for disaster when you can be relatively sure that the other team is going to be sticking to the meta to some degree. I mean, it's like games without junglers. You dominate for the first 15 minutes or so, then your underleveled top duo starts getting ganked and things go downhill. In a normal game where 4 other people's shiny rank isn't on the line, it's not a huge deal to lose, but when you're playing with people who conceivably want to win and want to make sure they don't drop in rank, trying things out for the first time or playing with suboptimal rune pages is basically shitting on four other people and weighing the whole team down.
As far as I'm concerned? I don't care what my ELO is. The only reason I've been playing more ranked over normals lately is because I'm interested in statistics, which don't exist (for whatever reason) outside of ranked. With that said, I'm an adult and I realized long ago that jumping into ranked without ample preparation is detrimental to other peoples enjoyment of the game, so I put in the time (and a little bit of cash, though you could buy rune pages with IP and skip the cash if you're willing to put the time in to grind out all that IP) to make sure that I was playing at a level that conveyed a little mutual respect for people who do care about things like their ELO and their W/L record.
My final point was just that. If you want to play 2 or 3 champs specifically or you want to try something new or you don't have the right rune pages and are likely to lose your lane to someone who does then play normals until you're ready to play at the competitive level. Normals have an ELO too, it's just hidden, so the only thing you're missing is the shiny ranked badge in your profile.
And finally, as a jungler, I get a lot of blame tossed around when people lose their lanes or whatever and it's actually pretty rough to get blamed all game for a loss only to go and look in their profile after the game and realize that they have no rune pages set up and their masteries were all wrong for the character type they were running. Yes, you can last hit without +10 or 15 ad from tier 3 runes and yes you could potentially win trades, but if you're playing up against people who are equally skilled (assuming matchmaking is working to some degree) the people who do that extra 10-15 damage on their autoattacks are going to destroy you in lane and then then blame game starts.
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
No problems bro, always glad to see a friend get some sick frags. Warwick is the hardest counter to teams with a single overfed champ because you can simply lock them down for long enough that the rest of your team can move in and 100->0 them.
As for MBR, the thing is that it isn't particularly effective unless you make a lot of auto attacks, are fighting people with 2000+ health, and aren't set back running with a Void Staff. Late game Warwick fulfills all those, and I think maybe Kayle can as well.
@ELOrguments: you people need to chill the fuck out, no one is going to read those hideous walls of text
Yeah, and when you combine WW with Veigar's ability to splatter squishy targets it becomes really effective. We've done the same kind of things before, when I've been Irelia. Just decide on one person to die and then take the correct target right out of the fight. Though WW is better at it in the combo.
EDIT: We also ran a Nautilus Lee Sin combo top, which was just filthy. Once GP was behind (he couldn't farm because slow>kick in the face>slow>hook) then I started to play roaming lee with 3xdorans, boots and vamp and bossed people around. Worked fine. Lee is crazy strong, though. I think I can beat him with Wukong, but not too sure about many others.
6 ArPen reds/3 AD reds, 9 Armor yellows, 9 MR/lvl blues, 3 AD quints
9 MagPen reds, 9 Armor yellows, 9 MR/lvl blues, 3 Move Speed quints
I survive on those
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Yep, we gotta get this thread back to the "Shen is OP look at this game I won with him" meta post-haste.
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
It's not unreasonable to have the opinion that 40 games (77 if you count TT) in two seasons is too little experience to have a reasonable opinion on this subject. It's just that if you're that worried you should be listening to people who have really high elo and that automatically makes mine irrelevant (as well as the opinion of most people in this thread).
For full disclosure: I also mostly play AP mid and jungle so it is possible that top lane or bottom lane has more use for multiple rune pages.
- The opposing team had Shen that I really, really wanted to kill, as he seemed to be the one holding their team together.
- I wanted to solo Baron fast, as I didn't want to rely on my team
- I was fed anyway so whatever
I think that was actually a valid use for MBR! Though Trinity Force might still have worked better, so I dunno.
Soloque ranked placement matches are weird and don't follow any meta.
so miserably, unnecessarily condescending. this is why I reacted with hostility, since you seem to be in the dark about how you come off.
what exactly is the "competitive level"? do you think 600 elo ranked is competitive simply because it's ranked? you're extrapolating your overboard mindset to all levels of the ladder, man, including the ones that are nowhere close to ever needing it to function because they're struggling with all facets of the game, not questions like "hm, what should my jungler be if lee sin and skarner are banned and their first pick locks udyr...".
the ladder system accounts for different factors in playstyle, including level of determinedness to have 9 different, mostly unnecessary runepages and have champs prepared for every eventuality. that's without getting into how much that actually contributes to rating (not that much), or how you're telling a new ranked player to spend a fairly large sum of money on something that they don't and won't have the runes for yet. I find it unbearably silly to tell them to delay the process of getting acclimated to ranked games simply out of respect for...what, 1200 elo? nope, just queue up and have a blast.
I've just been building Kog classic AD lately, rather than my on-hit hybrid phys/mag damage - I tend to save that one for when they have multiple warmogs users on their team, and/or when we have an AD Top and Jungler.
Warwick with MBR, Void Staff, Wits End and TANKY TANK TANK stuff is awesome, though. With just Randuins and Force of Nature/Spirit Visage, you can take a lot of damage, especially with your Q heals on top of that. Especially if you're hitting Vlad.
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February 17
What a difference a day makes!
A negatron cloak is 48 MR. Assuming she gets sorc shoes (but not guise) and starts with 10 MR pen you go from 0 MR to 48 MR. If she gets a guise then you get 28 MR.
So you either reduce damage by 32.32% or 21%, meaning that in order to pull even she needs to get either 28% more damage or 48% more damage from AP.
At level 6 she will have 3 ranks of q, 1 of w, e, and r. Assuming her full combo lands (e,q,r,w) she will do 606 damage + 3.41 AP
So in order, at level 6, to get her damage back to what it was if you had not had the negatron cloak is 50 AP if she has sorc shoes and guise and 85 AP if just sorc shoes.
For a single 700 gold item.
If you buy a negatron cloak as soon as you can she won't be able to zone you out because of her damage. This works against Leblanc(and not as well other champions) because Leblanc has to kill you in mid to succeed
You did, they were a bit over the top though, so i expect them to be toned down in a week or so.
All of that being said, i think I want to try a new Meta: Double top/Double bot. One of the tops has smite and can jungle after about 7 minutes. If blue, mid and smite top start blue and donate blue to mid. Bot and smiteless top start red, smiteless leashes and bot takes red on the ADd carry. (alternately run smite on the support as well, so you can super secure objectivves). Sometime before the second round of buffs come up top smite leaves lane and starts jungling. If you're purple then top starts with red. (or the AD teleports bot after killing red)
Basically the idea is to maximize the strength of your buffs early to put a lot of pressure on lanes. When you're jungling the majority of the time of your buffs is not spent in lane tossing lots of spells or adding true damage DoT do your auto attacks its spent helping the jungler go through the jungle marginally faster than the duo lane is getting xp/gold. If you don't have a jungler your mid can push (and grab his wraiths) and can do so with blue.
When it feels right, or its time to donate blue again the top with smite starts jungling, letting first top start getting solo experience/gold and securing creeps/objectives.
I am not sure "why does my matchmaking suck?" precludes you from understanding how important knowing/following the Meta is(I.E. knowing the strength of the Meta)
GIVE THEM NEGATIVE FEEDBACK.
Problem with this build is that it's so very expensive. There's so much stuff that's better to get than MBR early on, and games just tend to end earlier.
The usual core for warwick is boots2+spirit visage+frozen heart+wit's end, which isn't too expensive. Then I'd get Shurelya's if team doesn't have one, else Void Staff. At that point almost 4k gold item for last spot isn't usually realistic. It can be good though.
edit: Also, Randuin's can be nice for team fights.
I'm using you as in-- people in general. Not you personally.
I think that ranked, in general, is competitive. It's the only mode that publicly displays where you stand in relation to the rest of the playerbase with a numerical rating that represents your skill.
Getting acclimated to ranked games? There's no difference between ranked and normals besides the fact that one is competitive (and displays your skill level publicly) and the other isn't. Play normal draft if you want to get "acclimated to playing ranked games".
What you're saying is "Hey, do whatever you want and fuck the other people in ranked, because hey I don't have rune pages set up and all I can play is Kog'Maw." I'm saying to play normals until you can handle all your roles well, have a few common rune pages set up, and are ready to play a team game with 4 other people who will really appreciate the fact that you came to the competitive scene prepared as best you could.
Runes are bullshit. There's a reason why you can't buy them with RP, but instead have to buy "IP Boosts" in order to speed up the time it takes to get the IP for your rune pages together. It's pay to win and it sucks, but that's the nature of the game and if you're going to play in ranked, please please come prepared so that the other four people on your teams aren't wasting their time when they get into a game that you can't possibly compete in because you're 3 items down worth of stats at the beginning of the game.
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
Yeah, that's what I do usually, the Void Staff and MBR are at the end of the game.
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...
Sorry. Please carry on.
I'm more commenting on the swap from being 12 games into ranked @ ~1200 elo to "yeah I know this ignore the others and listen to me." Especially when at least two of the people who're contradicting him are 1800+ players with an order of magnitude more ranked games.
I mean, I know he's played like 1000 normal games so he should know about the meta. Incidentally I agree with the meta being the most competitive way to play. I disagree with the view that ranked is srsbsns. I think his perceptions about ranked are skewed. I think torgairon put it best.
So you're saying that people at 600 ELO aren't playing to win? That they don't care about their rating at all? I see 10-20 posts a day on the general forums about "ELO Hell" and how to get out of it, why people are stuck in it, why do my teammates suck so much, etc.
People care just as much about their teammates and their ELO at low ELOs as the pros do. Maybe moreso. I'm sure there's a lot more paranoia about your teammates when you're down in the ditches trying to pull yourself up by your bootstraps than pro streamers have at 2000 ELO where they pretty much recognize everybody they go up against because the pool of players is so much more compact.
Steam: Jacobontap
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