So you're saying that people at 600 ELO aren't playing to win? That they don't care about their rating at all? I see 10-20 posts a day on the general forums about "ELO Hell" and how to get out of it, why people are stuck in it, why do my teammates suck so much, etc.
People care just as much about their teammates and their ELO at low ELOs as the pros do.
I'm not sure you're really getting the people who are bellow 1100. A minority of them are players who just aren't good enough to climb. With a change of tactics, these will generally get out. Just look at Sampsen. It's also what's probably going to happen to me since I'm now playing regularily again. The majority is the biggest bunch of selfish douchebags and trolls you will ever run into. They will not appreciate you. They will only shove their own mistakes onto you and blame you for everything that's wrong. People bellow a certain ELO play to win, yes, but they have no idea how to do it or actively sabotage themselves by being assholes.
What you're saying is the optimist view, it's how the ladder would be if the people on it were nicer. That's why I fell of my chair when you went "4 people who'll appreciate you coming prepared." Low ELO is a separate reality and you should pray to whatever gods or spirits you worship that you don't end up there.
Oh, and the people who whine on the forum, 90% of them deserve to be exactly where they are.
What you're saying is "Hey, do whatever you want and fuck the other people in ranked, because hey I don't have rune pages set up and all I can play is Kog'Maw."
If they do that, then they'll be matched at the ELO that they play at. Oh no, their internet number is lower than it could have been if they'd been more skilled. And if they do get more skilled, their ELO will go up as they gain skill.
So you're saying that people at 600 ELO aren't playing to win? That they don't care about their rating at all? I see 10-20 posts a day on the general forums about "ELO Hell" and how to get out of it, why people are stuck in it, why do my teammates suck so much, etc.
They shouldn't be caring about their rating, not like that. There's nothing inherently wrong about being at 600 ELO. It's just their perceptions of 'where they belong' that is causing them to believe that they are in ELO Hell instead of ELO Heaven. As Jean-Paul Sarte put it, "[ELO] Hell is other people."
I totally understand that there are trolls, ragers, leavers, AFKer's etc. that populate low ELO ranges (although I'd argue that these are problems across the entire range of ELO and they are precisely a problem because ranked is a competitive mode no matter what your ELO is), but if I'm reading what Torgairon wrote correctly he (or she) is essentially saying that people at low ELO are too stupid to understand the concept of ELO or that ranked is competitive. Talk about condescending.
So yeah, I guess if you don't care about other people and don't mind wrecking however many games it takes to reach rock bottom for yourself and four other people, then go wild and do whatever you like.
If, like most people, you want to participate in the competitive scene and positively contribute to the games you play there, then my advice still stands and I'm sticking to it.
Future Blues on
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And when you get a team with several people believing they are in ELO hell and that they should be somewhere else, well, that's why I stopped playing Ranked. Playing with people like that is not fun. And it's why I have no qualms about picking up the most trolltastic champs I can find and stomp people. Though if the enemy turned out to be decent people I will apologise for getting them caught up in my grudge against parts of the lol community afterwards.
Wow, Future is really getting dog-piled by you guys. Where have I ever seen that happen before? Oh right, the last time anyone posted an opinion that wasn't overstated and common as dirt.
Future, don't bother. I only try to discuss any opinions of mine if they're common or I have the time to kill.
I mean, I know he's played like 1000 normal games so he should know about the meta. Incidentally I agree with the meta being the most competitive way to play. I disagree with the view that ranked is srsbsns. I think his perceptions about ranked are skewed. I think torgairon put it best.
Yea, i am also not sure that we can make the assumption that people at that ranking don't care and that you should not care how they feel when you are playing with them.
In fact i think that the other assumptions are quite more realistic (that people care about their ranked number, that people want to win games, that people get upset when you do things that they thing will cause them to lose games and that doing those things as was indicated will make you more likely to win games and be a good teammate.)
They might be a higher bar than necessary, but i don't think that in any way the assertions against that bar have been in any way valid
and are ready to play a team game with 4 other people who will really appreciate the fact that you came to the competitive scene prepared as best you could.
Ahahahahahahahaha!
...
Sorry. Please carry on.
So the answer to trolls is to not act be a good responsible citizen? How about this
Do you find that you appreciate when you're playing with prepared people who know what they're doing, communicate and are prepared to take the role that they end up with?
If you do, do you believe you're the only person like that who plays in ranked games?
I roflstomp with Lee Sin in theory, but I just can't seem to execute in real games. Bot games, or even casual non-ranked games, I've got it, but when things get tougher I just can't seal the deal with kills. Grrr.
Wow, Future is really getting dog-piled by you guys. Where have I ever seen that happen before? Oh right, the last time anyone posted an opinion that wasn't overstated and common as dirt.
Future, don't bother. I only try to discuss any opinions of mine if they're common or I have the time to kill.
For better or worse, all I have is tons of time to kill. I do appreciate the sentiment though!
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I roflstomp with Lee Sin in theory, but I just can't seem to execute in real games. Bot games, or even casual non-ranked games, I've got it, but when things get tougher I just can't seal the deal with kills. Grrr.
This probably means you're going into teamfights too early. Bruisers have to be careful about how quickly they engage, as it's very easy for an enemy team to switch onto them.
Wow, Future is really getting dog-piled by you guys. Where have I ever seen that happen before? Oh right, the last time anyone posted an opinion that wasn't overstated and common as dirt.
Future, don't bother. I only try to discuss any opinions of mine if they're common or I have the time to kill.
So yeah, I guess if you don't care about other people and don't mind wrecking however many games it takes to reach rock bottom for yourself and four other people, then go wild and do whatever you like.
well, it's pretty clear we can't discuss this without misconstruing each other's positions. I'll just leave off by saying that I've played about 30 ranked games over 2 accounts, have gone something like 20-10 and in both cases was generally playing the same 2-3 champs over and over with mediocre runepages. I bring this up not to brag, but to note that there are so many different exceptions to your rule. I kind of find it funny that another interpretation of your views was of optimism, because all I see is absolute conviction that everyone should play like you do (in the 1200's, apparently), or they're terrible and will feed and drag you down.
I totally understand that there are trolls, ragers, leavers, AFKer's etc. that populate low ELO ranges (although I'd argue that these are problems across the entire range of ELO and they are precisely a problem because ranked is a competitive mode no matter what your ELO is), but if I'm reading what Torgairon wrote correctly he (or she) is essentially saying that people at low ELO are too stupid to understand the concept of ELO or that ranked is competitive. Talk about condescending.
I'm sitting in mid with 30 secs to go before start so I can't elaborate, but...no, try again.
ranked by its very nature is supposed to be competetive. if you want to maximize your chances of doing well and winning then you should build rune pages for your champs.
ranked by its very nature is supposed to be competetive. if you want to maximize your chances of doing well and winning then you should build rune pages for your champs.
I mean
why am I even saying that it's so 'well duh'
should you spend $20 at the very start of your ranked career to buy empty rune pages for a champ roster that you probably don't have filled out adequately yet? that was the initial question, though we're tangential miles away by now.
Wow, Future is really getting dog-piled by you guys. Where have I ever seen that happen before? Oh right, the last time anyone posted an opinion that wasn't overstated and common as dirt.
Future, don't bother. I only try to discuss any opinions of mine if they're common or I have the time to kill.
So yeah, I guess if you don't care about other people and don't mind wrecking however many games it takes to reach rock bottom for yourself and four other people, then go wild and do whatever you like.
well, it's pretty clear we can't discuss this without misconstruing each other's positions. I'll just leave off by saying that I've played about 30 ranked games over 2 accounts, have gone something like 20-10 and in both cases was generally playing the same 2-3 champs over and over with mediocre runepages. I bring this up not to brag, but to note that there are so many different exceptions to your rule. I kind of find it funny that another interpretation of your views was of optimism, because all I see is absolute conviction that everyone should play like you do (in the 1200's, apparently), or they're terrible and will feed and drag you down.
I totally understand that there are trolls, ragers, leavers, AFKer's etc. that populate low ELO ranges (although I'd argue that these are problems across the entire range of ELO and they are precisely a problem because ranked is a competitive mode no matter what your ELO is), but if I'm reading what Torgairon wrote correctly he (or she) is essentially saying that people at low ELO are too stupid to understand the concept of ELO or that ranked is competitive. Talk about condescending.
I'm sitting in mid with 30 secs to go before start so I can't elaborate, but...no, try again.
Absolute conviction? Uh, I guess. Somebody asked how they should prepare for ranked games and I offered my opinion. The fact that you're refuting me with a description of your win/loss record is indicative that ranked is, indeed, competitive and that clearly, you care about your ratio. With that in mind, I don't think it's a stretch to assume that hey, everybody cares about their wins and losses in ranked and it would be polite and nice of people who play ranked to come prepared so that they don't fuck over the other people they're playing with. I'm over here talking about what you should do to prep for those games and you're countering me by saying, "Hey, I won X games without it which proves you wrong!" I didn't say that it was impossible to play ranked unless you followed my plan to T. As far as I'm concerned, I was talking less about how to play and more about preparing to play. Knowing the different roles inside and out, buying runes, setting up your masteries, these are all things that happen BEFORE you get matched into a game and yes, I do think that everyone should do those things if they want to play in ranked, mostly because when you don't do those things, you're letting 4 other people down (whether they know it or not).
Do those things have a time and/or cash cost associated with them? Some of them do, yeah. Is it unreasonable to suggest that one should put time or money into the game before they enter into the competitive scene? No, I don't think it is. And neither does Riot, apparently, since they make you wait until you're level 30 (and that you have enough champs to participate in draft pick) to even start playing ranked which ensures that you've played a certain number of games and have a general grasp of the game mechanics and your options (runes/masteries). Is that enough? Clearly it isn't, otherwise we wouldn't have people on the forum here asking us "What should I do to start playing ranked guys?"
you're extrapolating your overboard mindset to all levels of the ladder, man, including the ones that are nowhere close to ever needing it to function because they're struggling with all facets of the game
What did you mean, exactly? It seems to me that you were saying "Well, these guys are so dumb they don't even know which way is up, so no, they don't need runes/masteries/champs or to understand the meta." If that's not it, what are you saying exactly? What facets of the game do low ELO players struggle with that precludes them from needing a balanced pool of champs, a few extra rune pages, and a general understanding of common roles on the rift?
Future Blues on
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ranked by its very nature is supposed to be competetive. if you want to maximize your chances of doing well and winning then you should build rune pages for your champs.
I mean
why am I even saying that it's so 'well duh'
should you spend $20 at the very start of your ranked career to buy empty rune pages for a champ roster that you probably don't have filled out adequately yet? that was the initial question, though we're tangential miles away by now.
or you... buy them with ip. like I did.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
My last 8 games, I've wanted to practice Shen top.
Sadly, I can't ever actually start a game as Shen because inevitably, no matter what mode I am playing, my team either picks several top champs or doesn't pick a jungler, and I'm the kind of guy who will switch to the empty role because I don't enjoy wasting 20-40 minute chunks of my life because we have no AD or no jungler or no what have you.
should you spend $20 at the very start of your ranked career to buy empty rune pages for a champ roster that you probably don't have filled out adequately yet? that was the initial question, though we're tangential miles away by now.
Actually he said you should get rune pages so that you could fill them with runes so that you can run your champ roster well. He did not say to leave them empty and not properly fill them.
Also i don't think there is anything wrong with suggesting that you drop some cash on the game. If you're playing ranked then you've played for 30 levels, which is roughly what, 300 normal games? At 20 minutes a game that is 100 hours so you're probably not likely to waste it. Not that you can't buy em with IP if you really want to.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Basic pages:
Carry: ArmPen reds, Armour yellows, MR/lvl blues, AD or ArmPen quints
Caster: MPen reds, AP/lvl yellows, AP/lvl blues, AP quints
Tank: MPen reds, Armour yellows, MR/lvl blues, Movement quints
Support: Armour reds, gold/5 yellows, Armour blues, gold/5 quints
AS Jungler: AtkSpd reds, Armour yellows, MR/lvl blues, AD or ArmPen or AtkSpd quints
If you're going into blind normals to win, you really have the wrong attitude for it. Just autolock Shen and tell them you're going top, even if you end up duo-top, you're going to (probably) learn something.
ranked by its very nature is supposed to be competetive. if you want to maximize your chances of doing well and winning then you should build rune pages for your champs.
I mean
why am I even saying that it's so 'well duh'
should you spend $20 at the very start of your ranked career to buy empty rune pages for a champ roster that you probably don't have filled out adequately yet? that was the initial question, though we're tangential miles away by now.
or you... buy them with ip. like I did.
the fact that I didn't even know that was possible should tell you all you need to know about how seriously I've taken expanding my own roster for this game when I play it, lol. regardless, that still involves a priority of spending ip in which I'd probably put extra rune pages last - in this method, this is all preparation for even starting ranked at all. I'm starting to think I mostly have problems with the concept of being able to play every single role amazingly in place of just specialization, because the former is the only reason you'd need that many runepages on the fly. all my ranked experiences have precluded having to take that one role I happened not to want that game.
future, my question from the very beginning has been "why is this guy telling people who are new (this doesn't even mean "bad", just new) to spend any form of currency on specialized pages to suit a level of specialization they shouldn't have as new level 30 players?" what this basically means is that I don't see how you can expect the majority of players to understand or sympathize with the idea that they should have to meet additional criteria to start playing ranked when they've waited 30 levels and are acclimated to whatever normal elo they've been playing at on the way up. if you want to characterize that as "stupidity", fine, league is a highly popular game and it draws people from all over the casual-hardcore spectrum. furthermore, there are many players who will do perfectly fine at that beginning hurdle of 1200 elo without any additional preparation because they don't actually belong at that elo. runepages in particular are just a helpful tool to artificially increase the level of competition, as someone else in the thread pointed out, and most people have 1 or 2 by level 30 suited to certain roles. asking them to cover every single role on the team adequately at the start is not only unnecessary, it's improbable.
finally, I don't think low elo players are stupid, I think there's a large difference between people with poor mechanics and people with solid mechanics seeing benefit from extensive theorycraft knowledge. you can understand the game theoretically but have poor control, poor map sense, poor last-hitting, et al. these are the things that separate them in the first place - you can have knowledge, but inability to execute that knowledge in a way that ever wins you games.
edit: sorry for the poor comprehension on the runepage issue, but still, full rune sets with ip and filling them is going to take ages. I just can't help but disagree with such a pedestal for basic elo ranked on just about every level, and all I know is I'm so over these TLDR posts.
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AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
yeah, I was just asking in general
really when I think about getting more pages it's stuff like a dedicated riven page or stuff for akali's passive.
If they are honestly fresh 30s, then they probably havent even gotten acclimated to the 3rd Quint and having both a 21 and a 9 point mastery.
The 300 games needed to hit level 30 should provide you with enough IP to get a 3rd rune page, and the runes to fill all 3 pages. (AP, AD, Tank/Support).
I know the conventional wisdom when I started playing was to have 300 wins before going to ranked, which meant around 600 games overall. Which is an absolute shitload of IP unless you have serious champ selection issues and keep buying different ones because you are chasing the OP / flavor of the month instead of becoming an expert with a stable of 3 or 4 champs.
Hell, season 1 only had 1 or 2 mastery pages throughout it, and most people had to respec after every champ select.
ranked by its very nature is supposed to be competetive. if you want to maximize your chances of doing well and winning then you should build rune pages for your champs.
I mean
why am I even saying that it's so 'well duh'
should you spend $20 at the very start of your ranked career to buy empty rune pages for a champ roster that you probably don't have filled out adequately yet? that was the initial question, though we're tangential miles away by now.
or you... buy them with ip. like I did.
the fact that I didn't even know that was possible should tell you all you need to know about how seriously I've taken expanding my own roster for this game when I play it, lol. regardless, that still involves a priority of spending ip in which I'd probably put extra rune pages last - in this method, this is all preparation for even starting ranked at all. I'm starting to think I mostly have problems with the concept of being able to play every single role amazingly in place of just specialization, because the former is the only reason you'd need that many runepages on the fly. all my ranked experiences have precluded having to take that one role I happened not to want that game.
future, my question from the very beginning has been "why is this guy telling people who are new (this doesn't even mean "bad", just new) to spend any form of currency on specialized pages to suit a level of specialization they shouldn't have as new level 30 players?" what this basically means is that I don't see how you can expect the majority of players to understand or sympathize with the idea that they should have to meet additional criteria to start playing ranked when they've waited 30 levels and are acclimated to whatever normal elo they've been playing at on the way up. if you want to characterize that as "stupidity", fine, league is a highly popular game and it draws people from all over the casual-hardcore spectrum. furthermore, there are many players who will do perfectly fine at that beginning hurdle of 1200 elo without any additional preparation because they don't actually belong at that elo. runepages in particular are just a helpful tool to artificially increase the level of competition, as someone else in the thread pointed out, and most people have 1 or 2 by level 30 suited to certain roles. asking them to cover every single role on the team adequately at the start is not only unnecessary, it's improbable.
finally, I don't think low elo players are stupid, I think there's a large difference between people with poor mechanics and people with solid mechanics seeing benefit from extensive theorycraft knowledge. you can understand the game theoretically but have poor control, poor map sense, poor last-hitting, et al. these are the things that separate them in the first place - you can have knowledge, but inability to execute that knowledge in a way that ever wins you games.
edit: sorry for the poor comprehension on the runepage issue, but still, full rune sets with ip and filling them is going to take ages. I just can't help but disagree with such a pedestal for basic elo ranked on just about every level, and all I know is I'm so over these TLDR posts.
And my response from the very beginning was, "If you're a new level 30 player you shouldn't jump into ranked right away because there are some things you need to invest in first before you begin to play competitively." I think that most people interested in ranked games are probably interested in the game enough to know that normal games have a hidden ELO and that the ranked badge on your profile is essentially the only difference between ranked and normal games. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that if you're thinking about playing ranked games, you're probably more 'hardcore' than the majority of people playing LoL and therefore you're a lot more likely to heed such advice in the first place.
I never said that it was "stupidity" not to do what I said. I did, however, say that knowing the 5 roles, being able to perform to the best of your ability in those roles, and having at least one rune page for each of them is the polite thing that you *SHOULD* be doing before you start ranked. If you only want to play solo mid or AD carry, you can do that in normals and get away with it no problem, but in ranked you don't always have the luxury of getting to pick your favorite role or champion and thus should be prepared for the possibility by having the proper rune pages, champions, and knowledge on standby. If you don't it isn't just your fun on the line anymore. (Really you could argue that this is true for any gametype, but that's a different kettle of worms).
I fully support playing the way you want and/or whatever you want in normals (although some team comps are detrimental to actually winning and it's never nice to troll) but ranked is a cut above the basic "Hit play, start playing" and honestly, I believe that you should bring your A game if you expect your teammates to do the same in the competitive arena. (And clearly that is what you expect since your kneejerk response to my previous post was to bring up your win/loss ratio and go on the defensive.)
Yeah, it sucks that you need runes to compete, but that's the game we're talking about and that's probably the main reason people buy IP boosts and one of the many things keeping this game free to play.
Future Blues on
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A good game to end a night on. Garen and I were neck and neck for kills, until I ulted him and stole a double (he was gonna win anyhow).
Also, my personal top play was chasing singed down all the way through his inhib turret, into the double nexus turrets, killing him and getting out alive.
General Idea: First buffs are wasted in the jungle, they help the early jungler clear camps a bit faster than a double lane. But since the enemy will be wary of ganks and warding they don't provide much advantage for the jungler except something the enemy can steal. So give them to the lanes. This of course screws your jungler. So you don't have one for the first five minutes
Setup: You want standard AD carry/Support bottom, standard AP mid. Top has two, one needs to be able to clear jungle camps fast after 5 minutes but can have a weak start. Ideally both have high mobility. But only one really needs it. One of the tops has smite, support also has smite.
Start at jungle camps: Donate Blue to Mid, Red to AD Carry. Proceed to win lanes. At ~5-7 minutes top makes sure the lane is pushed and swings through mid forcing them to back and pushing the lane. Bot also pushes the lane. Converge at dragon, do dragon at 5 minutes with two smites. Mid/bot returns to lane, and the top with smite starts jungling normally, donating blue to mid again at 7 minutes, taking red, and roaming.
Problems: Can you do dragon at 5-7 minutes without backing, even with 5 and with the enemy team having no chance of contesting? What happens if your mid/bot are successfully ganked? Their jungle knows he has free reign being able to see everyone on the map. How hard will the game be with a lack of offensive summoner spells? CV/Smite on support means you've only got one after flash on your carry. If you're purple you can't donate red to your AD bottom without them also having teleport so they can get to lane. This will make it harder for bottom lane to win the lane and push at 5 minutes, which they will have to do if you want to ensure an uncontested dragon.
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I keep getting stuck with tanky supports who can't zone people out for shit
that and for some reason this last game vayne's passive seemed to be working not at all for me, soraka ran away so many times
I'm not sure you're really getting the people who are bellow 1100. A minority of them are players who just aren't good enough to climb. With a change of tactics, these will generally get out. Just look at Sampsen. It's also what's probably going to happen to me since I'm now playing regularily again. The majority is the biggest bunch of selfish douchebags and trolls you will ever run into. They will not appreciate you. They will only shove their own mistakes onto you and blame you for everything that's wrong. People bellow a certain ELO play to win, yes, but they have no idea how to do it or actively sabotage themselves by being assholes.
What you're saying is the optimist view, it's how the ladder would be if the people on it were nicer. That's why I fell of my chair when you went "4 people who'll appreciate you coming prepared." Low ELO is a separate reality and you should pray to whatever gods or spirits you worship that you don't end up there.
Oh, and the people who whine on the forum, 90% of them deserve to be exactly where they are.
If they do that, then they'll be matched at the ELO that they play at. Oh no, their internet number is lower than it could have been if they'd been more skilled. And if they do get more skilled, their ELO will go up as they gain skill.
They shouldn't be caring about their rating, not like that. There's nothing inherently wrong about being at 600 ELO. It's just their perceptions of 'where they belong' that is causing them to believe that they are in ELO Hell instead of ELO Heaven. As Jean-Paul Sarte put it, "[ELO] Hell is other people."
So yeah, I guess if you don't care about other people and don't mind wrecking however many games it takes to reach rock bottom for yourself and four other people, then go wild and do whatever you like.
If, like most people, you want to participate in the competitive scene and positively contribute to the games you play there, then my advice still stands and I'm sticking to it.
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
Future, don't bother. I only try to discuss any opinions of mine if they're common or I have the time to kill.
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Yea, i am also not sure that we can make the assumption that people at that ranking don't care and that you should not care how they feel when you are playing with them.
In fact i think that the other assumptions are quite more realistic (that people care about their ranked number, that people want to win games, that people get upset when you do things that they thing will cause them to lose games and that doing those things as was indicated will make you more likely to win games and be a good teammate.)
They might be a higher bar than necessary, but i don't think that in any way the assertions against that bar have been in any way valid
So the answer to trolls is to not act be a good responsible citizen? How about this
Do you find that you appreciate when you're playing with prepared people who know what they're doing, communicate and are prepared to take the role that they end up with?
If you do, do you believe you're the only person like that who plays in ranked games?
Since yesterday, it's happened at least 5 times.
Squeeky Hammer of Doom on her?
For better or worse, all I have is tons of time to kill. I do appreciate the sentiment though!
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
wow
well, it's pretty clear we can't discuss this without misconstruing each other's positions. I'll just leave off by saying that I've played about 30 ranked games over 2 accounts, have gone something like 20-10 and in both cases was generally playing the same 2-3 champs over and over with mediocre runepages. I bring this up not to brag, but to note that there are so many different exceptions to your rule. I kind of find it funny that another interpretation of your views was of optimism, because all I see is absolute conviction that everyone should play like you do (in the 1200's, apparently), or they're terrible and will feed and drag you down.
I'm sitting in mid with 30 secs to go before start so I can't elaborate, but...no, try again.
He scales off of AS and health, and also likes to be in the middle of the fight, so yeah. It's a good pick for him.
I mean
why am I even saying that it's so 'well duh'
should you spend $20 at the very start of your ranked career to buy empty rune pages for a champ roster that you probably don't have filled out adequately yet? that was the initial question, though we're tangential miles away by now.
Absolute conviction? Uh, I guess. Somebody asked how they should prepare for ranked games and I offered my opinion. The fact that you're refuting me with a description of your win/loss record is indicative that ranked is, indeed, competitive and that clearly, you care about your ratio. With that in mind, I don't think it's a stretch to assume that hey, everybody cares about their wins and losses in ranked and it would be polite and nice of people who play ranked to come prepared so that they don't fuck over the other people they're playing with. I'm over here talking about what you should do to prep for those games and you're countering me by saying, "Hey, I won X games without it which proves you wrong!" I didn't say that it was impossible to play ranked unless you followed my plan to T. As far as I'm concerned, I was talking less about how to play and more about preparing to play. Knowing the different roles inside and out, buying runes, setting up your masteries, these are all things that happen BEFORE you get matched into a game and yes, I do think that everyone should do those things if they want to play in ranked, mostly because when you don't do those things, you're letting 4 other people down (whether they know it or not).
Do those things have a time and/or cash cost associated with them? Some of them do, yeah. Is it unreasonable to suggest that one should put time or money into the game before they enter into the competitive scene? No, I don't think it is. And neither does Riot, apparently, since they make you wait until you're level 30 (and that you have enough champs to participate in draft pick) to even start playing ranked which ensures that you've played a certain number of games and have a general grasp of the game mechanics and your options (runes/masteries). Is that enough? Clearly it isn't, otherwise we wouldn't have people on the forum here asking us "What should I do to start playing ranked guys?"
So, when you said:
What did you mean, exactly? It seems to me that you were saying "Well, these guys are so dumb they don't even know which way is up, so no, they don't need runes/masteries/champs or to understand the meta." If that's not it, what are you saying exactly? What facets of the game do low ELO players struggle with that precludes them from needing a balanced pool of champs, a few extra rune pages, and a general understanding of common roles on the rift?
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
or you... buy them with ip. like I did.
MPen reds, AP quints, MP5 yellows, scaling AP blues
those two pages are 90% effective for 90% of heroes
a third page is pretty nice though
Sadly, I can't ever actually start a game as Shen because inevitably, no matter what mode I am playing, my team either picks several top champs or doesn't pick a jungler, and I'm the kind of guy who will switch to the empty role because I don't enjoy wasting 20-40 minute chunks of my life because we have no AD or no jungler or no what have you.
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Actually he said you should get rune pages so that you could fill them with runes so that you can run your champ roster well. He did not say to leave them empty and not properly fill them.
Also i don't think there is anything wrong with suggesting that you drop some cash on the game. If you're playing ranked then you've played for 30 levels, which is roughly what, 300 normal games? At 20 minutes a game that is 100 hours so you're probably not likely to waste it. Not that you can't buy em with IP if you really want to.
Carry: ArmPen reds, Armour yellows, MR/lvl blues, AD or ArmPen quints
Caster: MPen reds, AP/lvl yellows, AP/lvl blues, AP quints
Tank: MPen reds, Armour yellows, MR/lvl blues, Movement quints
Support: Armour reds, gold/5 yellows, Armour blues, gold/5 quints
AS Jungler: AtkSpd reds, Armour yellows, MR/lvl blues, AD or ArmPen or AtkSpd quints
the fact that I didn't even know that was possible should tell you all you need to know about how seriously I've taken expanding my own roster for this game when I play it, lol. regardless, that still involves a priority of spending ip in which I'd probably put extra rune pages last - in this method, this is all preparation for even starting ranked at all. I'm starting to think I mostly have problems with the concept of being able to play every single role amazingly in place of just specialization, because the former is the only reason you'd need that many runepages on the fly. all my ranked experiences have precluded having to take that one role I happened not to want that game.
future, my question from the very beginning has been "why is this guy telling people who are new (this doesn't even mean "bad", just new) to spend any form of currency on specialized pages to suit a level of specialization they shouldn't have as new level 30 players?" what this basically means is that I don't see how you can expect the majority of players to understand or sympathize with the idea that they should have to meet additional criteria to start playing ranked when they've waited 30 levels and are acclimated to whatever normal elo they've been playing at on the way up. if you want to characterize that as "stupidity", fine, league is a highly popular game and it draws people from all over the casual-hardcore spectrum. furthermore, there are many players who will do perfectly fine at that beginning hurdle of 1200 elo without any additional preparation because they don't actually belong at that elo. runepages in particular are just a helpful tool to artificially increase the level of competition, as someone else in the thread pointed out, and most people have 1 or 2 by level 30 suited to certain roles. asking them to cover every single role on the team adequately at the start is not only unnecessary, it's improbable.
finally, I don't think low elo players are stupid, I think there's a large difference between people with poor mechanics and people with solid mechanics seeing benefit from extensive theorycraft knowledge. you can understand the game theoretically but have poor control, poor map sense, poor last-hitting, et al. these are the things that separate them in the first place - you can have knowledge, but inability to execute that knowledge in a way that ever wins you games.
edit: sorry for the poor comprehension on the runepage issue, but still, full rune sets with ip and filling them is going to take ages. I just can't help but disagree with such a pedestal for basic elo ranked on just about every level, and all I know is I'm so over these TLDR posts.
really when I think about getting more pages it's stuff like a dedicated riven page or stuff for akali's passive.
The 300 games needed to hit level 30 should provide you with enough IP to get a 3rd rune page, and the runes to fill all 3 pages. (AP, AD, Tank/Support).
I know the conventional wisdom when I started playing was to have 300 wins before going to ranked, which meant around 600 games overall. Which is an absolute shitload of IP unless you have serious champ selection issues and keep buying different ones because you are chasing the OP / flavor of the month instead of becoming an expert with a stable of 3 or 4 champs.
Hell, season 1 only had 1 or 2 mastery pages throughout it, and most people had to respec after every champ select.
MWO: Adamski
So much for my tank support rune page.
And my response from the very beginning was, "If you're a new level 30 player you shouldn't jump into ranked right away because there are some things you need to invest in first before you begin to play competitively." I think that most people interested in ranked games are probably interested in the game enough to know that normal games have a hidden ELO and that the ranked badge on your profile is essentially the only difference between ranked and normal games. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that if you're thinking about playing ranked games, you're probably more 'hardcore' than the majority of people playing LoL and therefore you're a lot more likely to heed such advice in the first place.
I never said that it was "stupidity" not to do what I said. I did, however, say that knowing the 5 roles, being able to perform to the best of your ability in those roles, and having at least one rune page for each of them is the polite thing that you *SHOULD* be doing before you start ranked. If you only want to play solo mid or AD carry, you can do that in normals and get away with it no problem, but in ranked you don't always have the luxury of getting to pick your favorite role or champion and thus should be prepared for the possibility by having the proper rune pages, champions, and knowledge on standby. If you don't it isn't just your fun on the line anymore. (Really you could argue that this is true for any gametype, but that's a different kettle of worms).
I fully support playing the way you want and/or whatever you want in normals (although some team comps are detrimental to actually winning and it's never nice to troll) but ranked is a cut above the basic "Hit play, start playing" and honestly, I believe that you should bring your A game if you expect your teammates to do the same in the competitive arena. (And clearly that is what you expect since your kneejerk response to my previous post was to bring up your win/loss ratio and go on the defensive.)
Yeah, it sucks that you need runes to compete, but that's the game we're talking about and that's probably the main reason people buy IP boosts and one of the many things keeping this game free to play.
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
Demonstration of such:
P.S. My RL friends are so bad at LOL now. No fucking chance in the universe bottom lane isn't going to be a shit show, barring pure luck.
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A good game to end a night on. Garen and I were neck and neck for kills, until I ulted him and stole a double (he was gonna win anyhow).
Also, my personal top play was chasing singed down all the way through his inhib turret, into the double nexus turrets, killing him and getting out alive.
But that is only because you do not have The Wisdom.
When you get that, you will understand.
I started to play ranked when I was +100 wins over losses in normals.
Double Lanes: Double Smite
General Idea: First buffs are wasted in the jungle, they help the early jungler clear camps a bit faster than a double lane. But since the enemy will be wary of ganks and warding they don't provide much advantage for the jungler except something the enemy can steal. So give them to the lanes. This of course screws your jungler. So you don't have one for the first five minutes
Setup: You want standard AD carry/Support bottom, standard AP mid. Top has two, one needs to be able to clear jungle camps fast after 5 minutes but can have a weak start. Ideally both have high mobility. But only one really needs it. One of the tops has smite, support also has smite.
Start at jungle camps: Donate Blue to Mid, Red to AD Carry. Proceed to win lanes. At ~5-7 minutes top makes sure the lane is pushed and swings through mid forcing them to back and pushing the lane. Bot also pushes the lane. Converge at dragon, do dragon at 5 minutes with two smites. Mid/bot returns to lane, and the top with smite starts jungling normally, donating blue to mid again at 7 minutes, taking red, and roaming.
Problems: Can you do dragon at 5-7 minutes without backing, even with 5 and with the enemy team having no chance of contesting? What happens if your mid/bot are successfully ganked? Their jungle knows he has free reign being able to see everyone on the map. How hard will the game be with a lack of offensive summoner spells? CV/Smite on support means you've only got one after flash on your carry. If you're purple you can't donate red to your AD bottom without them also having teleport so they can get to lane. This will make it harder for bottom lane to win the lane and push at 5 minutes, which they will have to do if you want to ensure an uncontested dragon.
That is a huge bummer, I was just starting to really get into Alistar support. ditto on the runepage too.
At least Nautilus is awesome and I'm never playing any other champ ever again.
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