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[League of Legends] No one is as good as they think they are (except me)

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  • aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    Yeah I will agree that I think most (But not all.) of the PAers I've played with, while they're very cool people and good players, are defeatists.

    The moment the game becomes unfavorable, (And I don't mean 3 towers, 2 dragons and 15 kills down unfavorable.) the surrender votes start rolling in. And if it's not available yet, "Surrender at 20 guys... this is done." calls in Vent.

    Then it turns into either haggling for people to try a while longer... (In which case even if we come out on top the next team fight or two, all it takes is say one more tower to go down before we're back to the votes.)

    ...or it turns into a guilt-trip fest to get the 2 people voting no to "Stop wasting our time, I just want to requeue ASAP."

    It happened often enough that I kind of gave up on playing with PAers, even though it's not something everyone does.

  • SampsenSampsen Aggressive Berserker Registered User regular
    aunsoph wrote:
    Yeah I will agree that I think most (But not all.) of the PAers I've played with, while they're very cool people and good players, are defeatists.

    The moment the game becomes unfavorable, (And I don't mean 3 towers, 2 dragons and 15 kills down unfavorable.) the surrender votes start rolling in. And if it's not available yet, "Surrender at 20 guys... this is done." calls in Vent.

    Then it turns into either haggling for people to try a while longer... (In which case even if we come out on top the next team fight or two, all it takes is say one more tower to go down before we're back to the votes.)

    ...or it turns into a guilt-trip fest to get the 2 people voting no to "Stop wasting our time, I just want to requeue ASAP."

    It happened often enough that I kind of gave up on playing with PAers, even though it's not something everyone does.

    We all have different ideas of what is fun and what we would rather be doing, so not everyone is going to have the same views on surrendering, it only makes sense. I don't think anyone gets bent out of shape if you'd rather play with some people more than others.

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  • RedThornRedThorn Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Sampsen wrote:
    This brings up something I wanted to talk about. I love playing with you guys, but sometimes, I feel like we surrender a bit too fast. I've been in pubbie games where, at the 20 min mark, we're being destroyed by a fed carry, only for us to take it easy, play defensive, and slowly catch up on farm and work on our builds. Several times, we've been able to come back from a deficit and take the enemy nexus after a good teamfight.

    What are your thoughts on early surrenders when your team is outfarmed. Is going "Trynd is fed, that's gg" at 23 mins normal? Is it truly impossible to come back after such a situation?

    The important question is - Are you having fun? If yes, continue with the likelyhood you will lose. If no, surrender and restart. I play to have fun, and I'm not having fun if I'm getting my ass kicked. Sure I could win if I held out for another 20-30 minutes, but I usually don't want to, I prefer to start again.

    As one of the people who tends to be one of the last to be willing to surrender, I feel like it puts me in an awkward spot a lot of the time. On one hand, I feel like a bit of a dick if 3 or so people on the team want to surrender and I say no, because it means they aren't having fun and my no vote is keeping them in the game. On the other hand, people seem to want to surrender when we're only a few kills and a dragon or two behind on a fairly regular basis and it doesn't make sense to me. When you surrender out on every game where you get behind, you tend to end up with losing streaks because people are frustrated and tilting, at least in my experience.

    RedThorn on
    League of Legends: Drokmir
    Steam: Drokmir
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Yeah, I can sorta see that.

    Never have started a surrender vote myself, though. Vastly prefer to let the game play out to it's conclusion, but I can see why some people wouldn't want to sit around for another 20-30 minutes getting slaughtered with no way to really come back because some carries snowball (lol, goddamnit, I hate that term, especially since I always end up thinking of the "snowball" conversation from Clerks) so hard they just solo enemy teams.

    I should play more TT or Dominion, since the games resolve vastly faster. And man, I really can't wait for Blizzard DOTA to come out.

    PMAvers on
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  • CutfangCutfang Dancing Bagel WalessssssssRegistered User regular
    Duo ranked seems to give me the worst of people. I prefer solo ranked :S

    Dancing Bagel
  • JookieJookie Registered User regular
    According to my friends, Irelia is a counterpick to Riven. I'm not seeing it, Riven should beat the living daylights out of Irelia early and steamroll from there on.

    butts
  • SampsenSampsen Aggressive Berserker Registered User regular
    RedThorn wrote:
    Sampsen wrote:
    This brings up something I wanted to talk about. I love playing with you guys, but sometimes, I feel like we surrender a bit too fast. I've been in pubbie games where, at the 20 min mark, we're being destroyed by a fed carry, only for us to take it easy, play defensive, and slowly catch up on farm and work on our builds. Several times, we've been able to come back from a deficit and take the enemy nexus after a good teamfight.

    What are your thoughts on early surrenders when your team is outfarmed. Is going "Trynd is fed, that's gg" at 23 mins normal? Is it truly impossible to come back after such a situation?

    The important question is - Are you having fun? If yes, continue with the likelyhood you will lose. If no, surrender and restart. I play to have fun, and I'm not having fun if I'm getting my ass kicked. Sure I could win if I held out for another 20-30 minutes, but I usually don't want to, I prefer to start again.

    As one of the people who tends to be one of the last to be willing to surrender, I feel like it puts me in an awkward spot a lot of the time. On one hand, I feel like a bit of a dick if 3 or so people on the team want to surrender and I say no, because it means they aren't having fun and my no vote is keeping them in the game. On the other hand, people seem to want to surrender when we're only a few kills and a dragon or two behind on a fairly regular basis and it doesn't make sense to me. When you surrender out on every game where you get behind, you tend to end up with losing streaks because people are frustrated and tilting, at least in my experience.

    Whenever I feel myself start to tilt, I take a break. It's one of the reasons I was only on for a game or two at a time over the weekend. Ugh, I just did not have the right disposition to win after things went wrong(for whatever reason).

    That said, I think we really, really need to be doing ranked, which would make hanging on for another 10 minutes much more reasonable. In normals, I can't bring myself to continue losing for 10-20 more minutes when the chance of winning isn't all that high. Just not fun for me.

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  • RedThornRedThorn Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Well, the other thing I think I should mention is that it's also not true that being behind necessarily means that it's going to take some horrid 50 minute slog to win the game. I mean, just last night I was in a game with PA folks where the 20 minute surrender vote came up and failed 3/2, and we won it fairly handily around 10 minutes later. Games can turn around quickly.

    RedThorn on
    League of Legends: Drokmir
    Steam: Drokmir
  • CutfangCutfang Dancing Bagel WalessssssssRegistered User regular
    Jookie wrote:
    According to my friends, Irelia is a counterpick to Riven. I'm not seeing it, Riven should beat the living daylights out of Irelia early and steamroll from there on.

    Riven does beat Irelia early, but she has to sacrifice her escape in order to do damage. I learned this 2 hours ago when I got ganked repeatedly at early levels. Once Irelia hits 6 she beats Riven until Riven gets a chunk of damage from items.

    Dancing Bagel
  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    I probably come down somewhere in the middle. If I feel like the game has been relatively back and forth but we're just on a downward turn, I won't surrender. However, if I feel like we're being outplayed in every phase of the game I won't play out the string just for the sake of it, especially if I'm in solo queue.

    That game as Nasus last night we had 3 failed surrenders. We lost every teamfight, horribly. We had one player, Kat, with a positive KDR - she was like 8/1/4, while everyone else on the team was like 1/7/2 or something similar. By the time we successfully surrendered we were down by over 20 kills and 7 towers. It was clear to everyone except Kat and god knows who else that the game was over long before that.

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  • SampsenSampsen Aggressive Berserker Registered User regular
    RedThorn wrote:
    Well, the other thing I think I should mention is that it's also not true that being behind necessarily means that it's going to take some horrid 50 minute slog to win the game. I mean, just last night I was in a game with PA folks where the 20 minute surrender vote came up and failed 3/2, and we won it fairly handily around 10 minutes later. Games can turn around quickly.

    True, but I don't think we often surrender without at least doing one or two teamfights. After a teamfight, you can tell pretty quick if your chances of turning it around are decent.

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  • projectmayhemprojectmayhem Registered User regular
    So I havent played LoL in months. Havent watched spotlights or read any patch notes. I decided to do an unranked shen game just to get back into the flow.

    mother of god

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    PMAvers wrote:
    I should play more TT or Dominion, since the games resolve vastly faster. And man, I really can't wait for Blizzard DOTA to come out.

    You and me both.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • RedThornRedThorn Registered User regular
    Sampsen wrote:
    RedThorn wrote:
    Well, the other thing I think I should mention is that it's also not true that being behind necessarily means that it's going to take some horrid 50 minute slog to win the game. I mean, just last night I was in a game with PA folks where the 20 minute surrender vote came up and failed 3/2, and we won it fairly handily around 10 minutes later. Games can turn around quickly.

    True, but I don't think we often surrender without at least doing one or two teamfights. After a teamfight, you can tell pretty quick if your chances of turning it around are decent.

    That's true, and why I usually insist on not surrendering before having a teamfight unless somebody on their team is just hilariously fed (And I know this bugs some people >.>).

    League of Legends: Drokmir
    Steam: Drokmir
  • DarisDaris Registered User regular
    Zyrxil wrote:
    Daris wrote:
    Except anyone who plays with me regularly will profess my habit of stealing the enemy blue right around seven minutes in. By habit, I mean I try and do it every single game. If I'm not, it normally has something to do with a lane gank or covering for someone. It's something I love doing. I did it even back when I had less than ten games jungling as Shyvana. My first major worry on her was if I was counter jungling too much and ganking too little.

    I steal it, I steal it and kill their jungler, and more. Hell, I stole an Ammumu's blue once, killed Ammumu, and then when Renketon came from top I kicked his ass back to turret and killed him under turret before escaping. Not sure which PA people I played with that game, but it was a PA game.

    Of course I'm going to protest you saying I don't do something that I do constantly.

    I'm honestly wondering where you even got the idea.

    Personal experience? Dude, I have every game that I play recorded and it's fairly obvious. I can upload them when I get home if you're in disbelief, but you're really not as consistent as you believe yourself to be.

    Then post them. You're full of crap, dude. If I don't counter jungle, it's for a good reason. You're not going to convince me or anyone else who plays with me you're right.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Carnarvon wrote:
    ChaosHat wrote:
    Carnarvon wrote:
    Hat is not a fan of METAGOLEMing Riven, he normally goes full AD carry.

    For jungling, I've been going Doran's, Wriggles, Lucidity, Brutalizer, Giant's Belt, Youmuu, Warmogs, and then the game is normally over. I'd probably finish with a BT and GA.

    This. I don't like Frozen Mallet or Warmogs on Riven like ever, I like Atma's occasionally as the situation warrants. The only real defensive items I ever build are Guardian Angel (nearly every game if it goes that long), and then Hexdrinker or Atma's as needed. I think it takes too long to build Warmogs or Mallet and she doesn't even scale off health that well.

    I feel like Riven is pretty tanky up until level 11, where she suddenly becomes a ragdoll in team fights. The Giant's Belt is around 50% more health for her there and it seems to help a lot.

    Building more damage also gives you more E shield though. I like it when you hit W and everyone just melts. The Giant's Belt is nice but it doesn't build into anything I want. Guardian Angel makes her pretty tanky and the revival part is effectively a lot of hp.

    I am still waiting for my god damn BFF Sword.

  • DarisDaris Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote:
    I like how now when Daris has to talk to people about things he has to promise not to be condescending.

    I don't have to. It was a courtesy I extended because I was asking about something personal and genuinely wanted a response. Hell, I called you a bad name once publicly and you still respond to the majority of my posts. There are many ways to get a desired response.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Good lord you'd have to try much harder to get rid of me. I don't even remember what you called me.

    Was it hatchet douche? Bitchmonster?

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Daris wrote:
    Zyrxil wrote:
    Daris wrote:
    Except anyone who plays with me regularly will profess my habit of stealing the enemy blue right around seven minutes in. By habit, I mean I try and do it every single game. If I'm not, it normally has something to do with a lane gank or covering for someone. It's something I love doing. I did it even back when I had less than ten games jungling as Shyvana. My first major worry on her was if I was counter jungling too much and ganking too little.

    I steal it, I steal it and kill their jungler, and more. Hell, I stole an Ammumu's blue once, killed Ammumu, and then when Renketon came from top I kicked his ass back to turret and killed him under turret before escaping. Not sure which PA people I played with that game, but it was a PA game.

    Of course I'm going to protest you saying I don't do something that I do constantly.

    I'm honestly wondering where you even got the idea.

    Personal experience? Dude, I have every game that I play recorded and it's fairly obvious. I can upload them when I get home if you're in disbelief, but you're really not as consistent as you believe yourself to be.

    Then post them. You're full of crap, dude. If I don't counter jungle, it's for a good reason. You're not going to convince me or anyone else who plays with me you're right.

    Well with speak of videos we can actually SEE which one of you is correct! yay for technology!

  • aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    So in other news, I just can't wrap my head around early game ranged AD. I don't know what it is, but most of the time I either have trouble juggling harassing and last-hitting, (Which will either result in low CS or getting pushed out of lane.) or I just can't recognize kill opportunities properly. (Which ends up with me getting blown up super fast or letting kills slip away.)

    If I can get past early game, I tend to do very well, but I just don't know how to reliably pull it off. I have all of the ranged AD carries, but I'm most comfortable with Ashe, Sivir, MF and Vayne. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I'm prone to failing hard with Graves, Kog'maw and Tristana... I just get extra cocky with them and end up getting murdered. (In Kog's case specifically, I just seem to get focused down too fast in every team fight.) Ezreal, Corki and Cait I'm OK with I guess. While I really enjoy Ezreal and Corki, the fact that they take sooo much farm to really take off throws me off, especially because my main issues are with ranged AD early game... and Cait, well, Cait's kind of boring IMO.

    It's weird how it's this role that baffles me the most.

  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    Sampsen wrote:
    RedThorn wrote:
    Well, the other thing I think I should mention is that it's also not true that being behind necessarily means that it's going to take some horrid 50 minute slog to win the game. I mean, just last night I was in a game with PA folks where the 20 minute surrender vote came up and failed 3/2, and we won it fairly handily around 10 minutes later. Games can turn around quickly.

    True, but I don't think we often surrender without at least doing one or two teamfights. After a teamfight, you can tell pretty quick if your chances of turning it around are decent.

    Even then though, you can learn from a failed teamfight. "ok guys, we failed horribly at that last teamfight, what went wrong?" The answer is rarely as straightforward as "the fed Tristana is unkillable". It's usually more "we were out of position", or "we focused the tank while the fed AD picked us off".

    Anyways, I'll drop this by saying, not every game is a write off as soon as an opposing player gets an advantage. Come from behind wins are totally possible, and totally awesome when they happen!

    3DS FC: 1547-5210-6531
  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    AD quints and dorans blade make last hitting a lot easier, you can use ad marks too.

    Also for last hitting at towers, melee minions take two tower hits with about 5% hp left, so don't panic and just let the tower hit them twice then finish them. Caster minions are a bit trickier since they take about 70% per hit, what you really want is for your support to hit them once (at full health), then let the tower hit them once then finish them.

    Mostly it's just practice though! And yes AD carries are weak early on, if you don't feel comfortable harrassing then don't bother, just focus on your farming. Later on when you're more comfortable it will come more naturally.

  • SerukoSeruko Ferocious Kitten of The Farthest NorthRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    GnomeTank wrote:
    PMAvers wrote:
    I should play more TT or Dominion, since the games resolve vastly faster. And man, I really can't wait for Blizzard DOTA to come out.

    You and me both.

    Well You better learn to wait, cause blizzard DOTA is going to start beta testing sometime early 2025

    Seruko on
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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    aunsoph wrote:
    So in other news, I just can't wrap my head around early game ranged AD. I don't know what it is, but most of the time I either have trouble juggling harassing and last-hitting, (Which will either result in low CS or getting pushed out of lane.) or I just can't recognize kill opportunities properly. (Which ends up with me getting blown up super fast or letting kills slip away.)

    If I can get past early game, I tend to do very well, but I just don't know how to reliably pull it off. I have all of the ranged AD carries, but I'm most comfortable with Ashe, Sivir, MF and Vayne. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I'm prone to failing hard with Graves, Kog'maw and Tristana... I just get extra cocky with them and end up getting murdered. (In Kog's case specifically, I just seem to get focused down too fast in every team fight.) Ezreal, Corki and Cait I'm OK with I guess. While I really enjoy Ezreal and Corki, the fact that they take sooo much farm to really take off throws me off, especially because my main issues are with ranged AD early game... and Cait, well, Cait's kind of boring IMO.

    It's weird how it's this role that baffles me the most.

    It's kind of funny, because ranged AD is the role I most naturally was good at. Maybe it's the extreme multitasking practice I get playing SC2, but last hitting while watching my lane and keeping an eye out for ganks and gank opportunities comes really naturally to me.

    It's solo mid AP that I am terribad at. Some of the skill set is the same, but the lone wolf nature of it doesn't come as easily to me. I like having the warm blanky of a support with me on bot lane.

    GnomeTank on
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    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote:
    Carnarvon wrote:
    ChaosHat wrote:
    Carnarvon wrote:
    Hat is not a fan of METAGOLEMing Riven, he normally goes full AD carry.

    For jungling, I've been going Doran's, Wriggles, Lucidity, Brutalizer, Giant's Belt, Youmuu, Warmogs, and then the game is normally over. I'd probably finish with a BT and GA.

    This. I don't like Frozen Mallet or Warmogs on Riven like ever, I like Atma's occasionally as the situation warrants. The only real defensive items I ever build are Guardian Angel (nearly every game if it goes that long), and then Hexdrinker or Atma's as needed. I think it takes too long to build Warmogs or Mallet and she doesn't even scale off health that well.

    I feel like Riven is pretty tanky up until level 11, where she suddenly becomes a ragdoll in team fights. The Giant's Belt is around 50% more health for her there and it seems to help a lot.

    Building more damage also gives you more E shield though. I like it when you hit W and everyone just melts. The Giant's Belt is nice but it doesn't build into anything I want. Guardian Angel makes her pretty tanky and the revival part is effectively a lot of hp.

    I am still waiting for my god damn BFF Sword.

    Man, I can't wait for the BFF; I'll actually be able to play Kayle again. I tried Ghostblade out on her, hoping that the active wouldn't notice her E being ranged, but to no avail.

    Poor Kayle, she has a good kit, decent scaling, fancy animations and a good voice actor, but her itemization is terrible. She needs MP5 badly for the first eight levels, she needs attack speed to make her E worth while, AD for her Q, and CDR for everything. Being able to build Lucidity->GB->BC would have been awesome, thought she'd still need MP5.

  • SampsenSampsen Aggressive Berserker Registered User regular
    aunsoph wrote:
    So in other news, I just can't wrap my head around early game ranged AD. I don't know what it is, but most of the time I either have trouble juggling harassing and last-hitting, (Which will either result in low CS or getting pushed out of lane.) or I just can't recognize kill opportunities properly. (Which ends up with me getting blown up super fast or letting kills slip away.)

    If I can get past early game, I tend to do very well, but I just don't know how to reliably pull it off. I have all of the ranged AD carries, but I'm most comfortable with Ashe, Sivir, MF and Vayne. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I'm prone to failing hard with Graves, Kog'maw and Tristana... I just get extra cocky with them and end up getting murdered. (In Kog's case specifically, I just seem to get focused down too fast in every team fight.) Ezreal, Corki and Cait I'm OK with I guess. While I really enjoy Ezreal and Corki, the fact that they take sooo much farm to really take off throws me off, especially because my main issues are with ranged AD early game... and Cait, well, Cait's kind of boring IMO.

    It's weird how it's this role that baffles me the most.

    The key to bot lane is interacting with your support. They are the ones that dictate the flow of the lane(usually) and you need to read and react to what they are doing, but there really is no easy answer. MF and Cait are lane bullies, they need to be harassing with auto attacks and abilities and need to come out of lane better farmed than the enemy ad or they really fall off. Ashe and Vayne need to farm, but Ashe has good range with her auto attacks and her volleys. You can put out a lot of damage if you play her right. Vayne is considered to be the weakest ad lane by some of the pros. Farm like a boss.

    If you need to choose between harassing and last hitting, last hit, always. One kill is only worth 15ish cs, and harassing if they have any kind of sustain is just not worth it. If you are trying to learn ad carry in solo queue, it is going to be a long and difficult process, with a lot of verbal harassment. You should try and find someone you can lane with that enjoys support. You will get a feel for what they want to do and when aggression is a good thing. Other than that, lots of practice with different carries.

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  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    Also the most important thing for AD carries in team fights is positioning positioning positioning. Anyone can right click on an enemy with lots of AD/AS items in the inventory and shred them, being good at it means being in the right place at the right time. Abilities are often not that important by team fight stage, aside from self-buffs and occasionally something like Graves' smokescreen.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Rami makes a great point. Take something like Graves Quick Draw. I actually use that as much to get myself in a good team fight position, as I do to chase someone down. For instance, a team fight goes down, and I am somehow clumped in the middle (not where I want to be), I'll actually Quick Draw myself out of the cluster fuck to the edges where I can be more effective.

    e:
    Sampsen wrote:
    The key to bot lane is interacting with your support. They are the ones that dictate the flow of the lane(usually) and you need to read and react to what they are doing

    Also an incredibly important point. The best ranged AD's are the ones who don't have to be told how to have synergy with their support. If you see your Blitzcrank in the bushes, he's probably setting up to pull someone in to a gank...you should be near him, ready to turn and blast the victim down immediately. If you're pushing the lane, or out in the river somewhere, not paying attention, you're no good to your support.

    GnomeTank on
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    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • kevindeekevindee Registered User regular
    Carnarvon wrote:
    ChaosHat wrote:
    Carnarvon wrote:
    Hat is not a fan of METAGOLEMing Riven, he normally goes full AD carry.

    For jungling, I've been going Doran's, Wriggles, Lucidity, Brutalizer, Giant's Belt, Youmuu, Warmogs, and then the game is normally over. I'd probably finish with a BT and GA.

    This. I don't like Frozen Mallet or Warmogs on Riven like ever, I like Atma's occasionally as the situation warrants. The only real defensive items I ever build are Guardian Angel (nearly every game if it goes that long), and then Hexdrinker or Atma's as needed. I think it takes too long to build Warmogs or Mallet and she doesn't even scale off health that well.

    I feel like Riven is pretty tanky up until level 11, where she suddenly becomes a ragdoll in team fights. The Giant's Belt is around 50% more health for her there and it seems to help a lot.

    In any usual game, I probably wouldn't bother with frozen mallet, in this one though, I found myself constantly chasing fleeing targets, and it was getting annoying to deal with since our ranged AD with red buff never did anything useful. I never used to build warmog's, but I found the psychological effect it has on people (oh look at that hp bar, might as well pick another target) makes an astounding difference on how badly I get focused in teamfights, and I tend to build it quite early in quite a few games now. All depends how it goes. If I'm getting crushed, I'd go brutalizer, phage, BT and GA instead. This just felt like a good time to go "fuck you, I'll take your whole team on solo"

  • aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Oh, I have AD quints and reds, and I start Doran's Blade whenever I'm with a support with sustain, or Boots + 3 otherwise. My issue isn't so much pulling off the last hits by themselves, it's knowing when to harass and when not to, which ends up costing CS. I've tried being more passive, but it isn't always an option, as outside of high Elo, people tend to be incredibly aggressive.

    And yeah, having a friend support is optimal, but sadly not always available. A lot of the supports I've seen underwhelm me, TBQH. (And make me just kind of wish I was playing support that game instead of ranged AD, but I need to focus on it to get better.)

    aunsoph on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Well, I have the advantage of my best friend being a decently high ELO player, and likes to play support...so he just switches over to a twink and we dominate bot lane...Graves/Blitz 4 lyfe yo.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • softmoneysoftmoney Registered User regular
    Sampsen wrote:
    The key to bot lane is interacting with your support. They are the ones that dictate the flow of the lane(usually) and you need to read and react to what they are doing, but there really is no easy answer.

    This 1000 times. Most supports should be the ones initiating when in lane (Taric, Alistar, Sona, Leona, etc.). You should definitely harass if the opportunity arises, but most of the time you should be concentrating on last hitting, and keeping yourself in a position to follow up if they initiate something. Also, for the love of god do not constantly spam your abilities to farm unless you are purposefully pushing the lane to go back. If you spam abilities to farm every time they are up, even if I see an opening I can't go through with it because you are on cooldown. You're also vulnerable when you are on cooldown. Did you just use your boomerang to farm as Sivir? Yep.. I'm definitely looking for an opening because I know I have 9 seconds (minus any cd reduction) to put damage on you while your highest damage ability is down. Understanding who is vulnerable at any given time and being able to position appropriately is important.. but that just comes over time w/ playing any lane.

  • JookieJookie Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    It's hard for me to get better at AD carry because solo queue AD carry is quite possibly the hardest thing to do just because you're reliant on the whole team the entire game more or less. In lane you're dependent on the support. After lane you're depending on the entire team to keep you safe.

    Which, as it turns out, can be extremely difficult.

    And generally in the group I play with someone else picks everything else and I'm stuck as support. Which is fine, as there are some competent carries in that group that make me look good.

    Jookie on
    butts
  • aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    If I can get any game where someone doesn't call ranged AD before I have a chance to today, I'll try to save a replay and ask for some direct feedback. In case anyone is patient enough to do so, of course.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Also, whether you should harass a lot depends on the champ. If you have a good poke, harass more often (Graves is great for this). If you're poke is lackluster, than don't harass as much, try and keep your CS up. The point of winning your lane is to have as much CS as possible, preferably more than your opponent. This can be achieved by just farming your ass off, or farming while harassing, pushing them away from the creeps. Which you do is dependent on who you're playing.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • JookieJookie Registered User regular
    If you're Caitlyn you poke whenever a minion isn't about to die.

    butts
  • softmoneysoftmoney Registered User regular
    Jookie wrote:
    If you're Caitlyn you poke whenever a minion isn't about to die.

    This is kind of dependent. Do you have 1 creep about to die while they have 3 that are low? It might be worth poking anyway if you think you can deny them.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Echo wrote:
    Oh, people saying Dark Crystal Ryze is based on Hellboy. 8->

    Truthfully i was kinda disappointed it more more Hellboy and less "The Dark Crystal"
    Talith wrote:
    I think I'm just going to have to practice Jax all week. I really wish I had that pax jax skin :<

    PAX Jax you say?...

    I still have the stack of codes I gave out to everyone after PAX last year, so I'll send you the codes to try tonight. It's possible a few of them may have been used on EU but not US yet, so it's worth a try.

    Since i don't own Jax. I would love a try as well.
    aunsoph wrote:
    It's weird how it's this role that baffles me the most.

    There is a lot of mental game that goes into the AD carry that isn't seen. The carry is the one where positioning is the most important. In a team fight you have to think of yourself like Yi. You aren't there to kill everything at the start of the fight, you're there to stay alive and mop up. No matter which carry you play you're the king of sustained damage. This means that primarily you need to be safe

    As well, there is a lot of getting used to a duo lane. In duo lanes things are a lot more swingy. That is, you can get away with a lot more and get away with a lot less. In a solo lane what you can get away with isn't dependent on what is happening with your support, in a duo lane, what you can get away with is entirely dependent on when your supports abilities are on CD and their supports abilities are on CD.

    In lane you can make handy rubrics for doing things and the rubric can pretty much go like this

    Q: Do you need to last hit right now?
    Answer Yes Solution: Then Last hit
    Answer No Solution: Then Harass

    As you get better you might think about trading CS (I.E. if you only lose 1 CS in order to prevent them from getting 2, you're ahead) But that requires seeing a lot more of the field. So instead, just go based on your own CS. If your creeps have high HP then you can harass. If they have low HP then don't.

    Aside: When you're harassing, never open yourself up to both the enemy carry and support at the same time. Only one at a time(unless your support is Soraka) because you can reliably trade with one of them, but if its two, you're likely going to be feeling some pain.
    Carnarvon wrote:
    Poor Kayle, she has a good kit, decent scaling, fancy animations and a good voice actor, but her itemization is terrible. She needs MP5 badly for the first eight levels, she needs attack speed to make her E worth while, AD for her Q, and CDR for everything. Being able to build Lucidity->GB->BC would have been awesome, thought she'd still need MP5.

    Sounds like a job for Nashor's Tooth (unfortunately its AP, not AD, but q,w,e scale on AP well enough)

    wbBv3fj.png
  • DarisDaris Registered User regular
    So I asked before, but I think I missed the answer. What does new Shen do that is so OP?

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Daris wrote:
    So I asked before, but I think I missed the answer. What does new Shen do that is so OP?

    Never die and initiate like a boss. Wriggles, Wit's End, Aegis of the Legion, able to teleport to a friendly hero every 90s (I think it's 90s)....yeah. He's probably the best initiator in the game right now after the changes.

    His only real drawback is that if you jungle Shen, his initial clear speed is slooowwwwww but once he gets Wriggles, watch the fuck out.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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