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Do you recycle? I don't even have the option. (Also incentivizing "green" behavior)



  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    That's because the other 5 cents goes to the collection centers! weeeee!

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    If I'm downtown with an empty bottle, and there are no nearby recycling bins and I am completely devoid of a bag, large pocket, or anything, then I'll throw it in a regular garbage can and not feel too bad about it. Because A) That situation very rarely presents itself, and B) I have seen people routinely dig through the cans looking for empties, so there's a good chance it's getting recycled anyways, and somebody else is benefiting from my laziness.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Flashing forward to more recent times: What these groups are actually opposed to is new legislation that tinkers with the bottle bill legislation, that potentially ruin a good thing they have going. Bills that make it needlessly expansive, bills that gut curbside recycling programs, bills that cut those sweet handling fees, etc. Basically anything that turns it from a cash cow into an onerous chore and tweaks the numbers, they are understandably against. See for yourself, in this example from the 90s. We've got the "Oregon Small Grocer's Association" and many others opposing "Measure 37." In their own words, they don't want to turn what they call "a good law" (i.e. the bottle bill as-is) into a "bad law." And you have to really read between the lines here and understand the finances of it to understand why they were against it. If you're a reseller, you have a really healthy relationship with your Coke distributor and that fat check they cut you for deposits. Same thing with the big box beer distributors. But then look at what legislators were trying to include in "Measure 37." Things like "health drinks." Things that nobody fucking drinks compared to soda and beer. This is what had them spooked. They said wait a minute, we're making beer deposit and soda deposit money, you don't get to throw your 5 random cans of weird energy drink in there and make us bear the cost because the mathematics of scale don't make it favorable to us. No, you put that shit in your recycling bin. It's a little cynical to pass off reduced profit-taking as increased environmental awareness, as some of the opponents of that measure were clearly doing in their statements of opposition. But to me, doing the right thing for the wrong reasons still counts for something, and if a state has a bottle bill and groups avidly supporting it in some form, far be it from me to get mad because they want to keep getting their beaks wet from it. If only other ways of saving the environment could be monetized so handily

    they didn't support it initially, and they opposed the expansion of it to new products. I'm not really sure what point you're offering that contradicts what I've said. The only statement on that SoS page from an organization of actual grocers, guess what, opposed the expansion.

    the call the bottle bill a 'good law' because they know repealing it isn't on the table, so there's no reason not to try and claim to be good samaritans about it.

    now if they oppose it cause it'll hurt their bottom line and they shouldn't necessarily bear the cost of such environmental considerations then that's a fine opinion to have I guess, I'm just saying the idea that grocers are or were ever bottle bill supporters is wrong

    My god man, I don't even know what to tell you at this point. You didn't know how the money changed hands over these transactions from the start, which is fine, and I'm proud of the effort I've spent illuminating you on that subject. But now you're just going to try to shift the discussion to whether or not one small grocer's association for a state was for or against something when they're saying things like (from the example): "As senior leaders, we want to continue to do our part for recycling and litter control, but we want to do it under a well-written law -- not under 37!" Yeah obviously they hate bottle bill legislation in its entirety, huh, per whatever weird sentiment you've projected onto those statements? And this, bounded by acres of statements by similar groups saying they LIKE the bill and think it's a good legislation as-is? The overriding point, as you try to move us away from it, is that your take on the resellers being against this in general was silly and wrong--turns out you didn't know they got a nice chunk of change from every item redeemed. And they're very protective of the finances behind it! Very protective, as the profits can be fragile in certain states and even a few percentage points in redemption rates can mean the difference between a Scrooge McDuck money bath and just hating the shit out of bottle bills, depending on whether you are a reseller or a distributor. And again, that's fine. You don't have to know a lot about something to have an opinion about it, and refining that opinion when presented with new information is a sign of maturity.

    I don't understand your point at all. People say shit like "this is a good idea in general but a bad specific bill" about bills they don't like all the time. Turns out it's not a great idea to shit on an idea that the public in general is in favor of. So you say sure it's a good idea in general, but don't back this specific bill. 10 seconds on Wikipedia tells me that the original deposit bill for oregon was opposed by most grocery stores:
    In 1970, McCall initiated his own campaign for the Bottle Bill. Among opponents of the bill were grocery stores who feared financial strains with the processing of returns.

    Also, I haven't seen anywhere a statistic that any grocery store is actually turning a profit on handling of the recycling. You've claimed (probably truthfully) that some places get a handling fee and that some places get to keep unredeemed deposits, but I don't see anyone saying that they are net profiting.

    edit - Here's another link for the 2007 expansion of the bottle bill in oregon. Which was again opposed by grocery stores, unless the bill was amended to remove redemption centers from the grocery stores:
    The main opponents to expanding Oregon's bottle bill have changed tactics in the 11th hour of the legislative session.

    Instead of opposing any expansion, the Northwest Grocery Association is proposing a major overhaul of the entire bottle-bill system.

    The grocery association, which represents about 1,100 grocery outlets across the state, announced Wednesday that it would support expanding Oregon's bottle bill to include all beverage containers -- not just the water-bottles-only proposal as written in Senate Bill 707-A.

    The caveat: Collection of the containers would be moved out of grocery stores -- and into separate, state-run redemption centers. Also, the funding mechanism would change.

    Jebus314 on
    "The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Not recycling related per se, but I have grown accustomed to hotels having signs that say you can hang towels if you want to reuse them to save water/energy. I am staying in one of the top hotels in the country now, and they don't have that sign, which really surprised me. This same hotel also used gold leaf in the deserts, so a valuable resource is literally being consumed needlessly. . .

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  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Not recycling related per se, but I have grown accustomed to hotels having signs that say you can hang towels if you want to reuse them to save water/energy. I am staying in one of the top hotels in the country now, and they don't have that sign, which really surprised me. This same hotel also used gold leaf in the deserts, so a valuable resource is literally being consumed needlessly. . .

    This does not surprise me. Conspicuous Consumption ho!

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