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Do you recycle? I don't even have the option. (Also incentivizing "green" behavior)

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Posts

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    I did bag the bottles separately and leave them outside my garbage bin for the collectors (read: hobos).

    Way better than wasting that gas.

    bowen on
    Ladies.
    Quid
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Bottles are one of those things you can slap in a giant bag and take it to a recycling center when it's full.

    That's what most of us do in upstate. Take it to a local grocery store with bottle & can return. I find it weird the largest areas in NYS wouldn't have something similar for SKFM.

    I just want curb side collection. We do 90% of our grocery shopping at a small local place that doesn't do bottle collection. The big box stores near us do it, but I'm not comfortable going into the small spaces where they set them up, along with the presumably homeless people who push the shopping carts of bottles to the store.


    SKFM, why did you start this thread?

    Every time someone gives you a viable option to assuage your guilt for not recycling, you shoot it down.

    I hope others that have read this thread have gotten some ideas that will be helpful for them, because for you it seems quite pointless.

    AManFromEarthHarry DresdenIncenjucar
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I agree that on BPA, why take chances. Especially since at this point you'd almost have to try to find a bottle that contained it.

    On bacteria, the closer to empty your bottle is, the worse it is likely to be from a bacteria perspective. If you do some simple googling, you will see that the common reccomendation is washing a water bottle in hot, soapy water after each use.

    By way of update, we switched dishwasher detergents to method, and that is cleaning the glasses better so that is a win. I am also planning on setting if target has an indoor bottle return. The store I know of that creeps me out a little is the stop and shop, because the bottle return is its own little room that is accessible from outside vow a seperate door. I suspect it might even be set up like that to avoid having potentially scary looking people where the customers enter.

    On gates, I tried to get them to being in recycling, and they said no. I would be just as happy to live elsewhere in my town without a gate, but to be honest, the whole town is very homogenously upper middle class and white, so that isn't really saying much. . .

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    So you exclusively use disposable cups because you don't like how your dishwasher cleans glasses, and refuse to clean glasses by hand because that would undermine your ownign of a dishwasher (edit: written before your above post). Then on top of that you exclusively drink bottled water because rinsing a reusable container is too much work and you fear it would have dangerous health risks

    dude, your consumption habits are probably way more damaging than your lack of recycling. Not recycling is just like, the icing here. There's a reason the saying Reduce, Reuse, Recycle has reduce first

    Beef Avenger on
    Steam ID
    PSN: Robo_Wizard1
    CFN: RoboWizard
    bowen
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    Gated community doesn't really mean any particular income bracket. Sure as hell takes all comers in Florida anyway. We have gated trailer parks for retired people on social security, right up through a place that kicked john travolta out because his G5 was too fucking noisy for the private air strip, he is also apparently a bit of a choad. And mark, I tip worse than I drive Martin live there too. All sorts of golf course attached shit, and stuff for. What passes for middle class around here. Being gated doesn't really mean anything other the people there choose, possibly for reasons unrelated to the quality of the fences, to live in a gated community.

    Hell, it is really hard not to anywhere near Naples.

    Fuck that noise so damned hard, though. I have wet dreams about living somewhere without a home owners association.

    This machine kills threads.
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Bottles are one of those things you can slap in a giant bag and take it to a recycling center when it's full.

    That's what most of us do in upstate. Take it to a local grocery store with bottle & can return. I find it weird the largest areas in NYS wouldn't have something similar for SKFM.

    I just want curb side collection. We do 90% of our grocery shopping at a small local place that doesn't do bottle collection. The big box stores near us do it, but I'm not comfortable going into the small spaces where they set them up, along with the presumably homeless people who push the shopping carts of bottles to the store.


    SKFM, why did you start this thread?

    Every time someone gives you a viable option to assuage your guilt for not recycling, you shoot it down.

    I hope others that have read this thread have gotten some ideas that will be helpful for them, because for you it seems quite pointless.
    SKFM wrote:
    Does anyone else face simmiliar problems, or have ideas about what we can be doing as a society to make recycling easier and more efficient?

    He started it in order to try and start some spiel about how 'society' just makes it impossible to recycle anything.


    I live on an island, I have no vehicle, and my town does curbside collection for basics (like any decent town does): paper, cardboard, plastics. No glass, because they've had problems with broken glass contaminating the rest of the recyclables.

    Aluminum, which is maybe the most important thing for the average person to recycle (electronics are also very important, but we don't go through most electronics as fast as we do fucking aluminum cans) because it's infinitely recyclable and otherwise a heavy metal / nasty pollutant, you've got to pack up and bring to the depot yourself. For me, that's over an hours worth of walking.

    Guess what? I fucking get it done anyway, because it matters to me. But hey, I'm supposed to feel your pain, because those homeless people are keeping you down? That's a joke, dude. I don't expect everyone to care so much about recycling that they pack around a garbage bag full of cans for an hour (I do have the 'privilege' of being a still-kinda-young single guy, so I have the free time to do that), but don't tell me that as a wealthy lawyer with at least one personal vehicle, time enough to kill to post small talk on Penny Arcade and living in one of the wealthiest areas of one of the wealthiest countries on Earth that you society just makes it too hard for you to recycle.

    With Love and Courage
    zagdrobGennenalyse Rueben
  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    There are a few cases where I think bottled water makes sense...like something to keep a case or two handy in case of an emergency, or if you have really shitty tasting tap water...but mostly it's just a tax on people who are too lazy to use the tap or susceptible to marketing.

    If you are paranoid during pregnancy, you definitely should consider a reusable (BPA free) water bottle with a filter instead of disposable bottles. BPA is in pretty much any plastic that's not marked BPA free, and the water that sits for weeks or months in an Aquafina / Disani / etc bottle is going to be absorbing crap from the plastic. With a reusable bottle, you are probably filling it up the same day, if not the same hour.

    Either way, in most cases disposable water bottles are filled with tap water. Nothing special. If you get a Britta filter for your tap or a pitcher, or have a filter on the dispenser from your fridge the water you are getting is leaps and bounds 'purer' then the water you get in a bottle. It's a bit of a moot point though, because unless you are under a boil advisory, pretty much any first world water supply is perfectly safe to drink.

    Really...invest in a Britta, and a $15-20 reusable water bottle - they even make some that have a built in filter, so you can fill them anywhere. Wash them out nightly and you'll be fine. Being paranoid about bacteria growing in a water bottle over the course of a day, but then drinking water that's been sitting in a cheap plastic bottle for weeks or months just seems...asinine to me.

    Not even thinking about the waste of two cases of empty bottles going straight into a landfill each week.

    I will never understand all the BPA hate. It was never really proven to do anything, and pretty much anything you buy canned still comes lined in polycarbonate, or whatever the plastic is that uses BPA as the monomer. That being said, nothing wrong with good old PET bottles.

    As for the bacteria thing, I think it is a valid concern, although not on a daily basis. Bottles that have been bottled in a factory are probably very clean, and will thus be bacteria free forever pretty much, until they are opened. Once you start putting your mouth on the lid and swishing water into your face and then back into the bottle, that's when bacteria becomes a concern. I seem to remember there being a news story about people getting sick because they were reusing store bought water bottles, and not cleaning them every so often. I'm not 100% sure though, so I might see if I can dig up some actual facts on this.

    The FDA issued a warning that BPA can have an effect on fetuses, infants, and young children and it's banned in baby bottles. I'm skeptical that it really matters, but I sure as hell wouldn't want my pregnant wife / baby take the chances considering it takes very little effort to avoid. I'd definitely worry about that before I worried about the bacteria that can grow in a bottle of filtered water within a day or two.

    With bacteria, as long as you are rinsing the bottle out every time you fill it, and washing it every day or two, I wouldn't worry at all. I wouldn't drink water that was sitting in a bottle for two weeks on a desk, or go months without washing out the bottle, but nothing is going to grow in a day or two that's going to make you sick.

    EDIT - Unless you are filling the bottle from mud puddles, the bacteria in a regularly washed bottle will mostly be the same stuff that's growing in your mouth.


    Eh, the FDA issued warning amounted to them saying "seems totally fine, but if you want to not use BPA, certainly can't hurt". Most of the stuff on the FDA Website, seems to say the same. Probably not a problem but obviously nothing is 100% certain, so they continue to look into it. This is kind of off topic though so whatevs. I totally support peoples right to not use BPA, just think it's kind of funny. I will now refill my nalgene.

    As for the bacteria concerns I agree that you probably only need to wash once, maybe twice a week for constant use. The wikipedia article on it is pretty hilariously bad though. Especially like the part where one of the editors added "according to whom?" instead of the usual "citation needed". This article, from the university of nebraska medical center, seems to agree with the wash occasionally, but don't be overly concerned outlook. Another medical school article, where they say it's probably not a good idea to reuse the store bought water bottles, and you should get rid of any reusable bottles that have visible cracks or scratches. It's interesting that the last article indicates that if you were to reuse the store bought plastic bottles, you should wash them with luke warm water and mild detergent after every use. The more I look the less certain I am that Mrs SKFM is totally off base.

    Jebus314 on
    "The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    That article is talking about the potential hazards of reusing the cheap plastic water bottles that you should be recycling anyway. It doesn't say that dedicated reusable hard plastic (or aluminum) water bottles are a potential bacteria spawning ground.

    EDIT: Also, from your very same article:
    Municipal treated water is highly regulated, and is certainly safe to recommend for consumption. Bottled water is regulated, but not as stringently as municipally treated water. Consumers need to be aware that the quality of commercially manufactured bottled waters is quite variable, depending on the quality of the original water source as well as treatment(s) used to eliminate microbes in the final product.

    Yeah, Mrs. SKFM is definitely being rational by insisting on buying expensive bottled water that is less well regulated on average than municipal tap water, because she heard from somewhere that it might somehow give her cancer. She is totally and completely on base.

    The Ender on
    With Love and Courage
  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    That article is talking about the potential hazards of reusing the cheap plastic water bottles that you should be recycling anyway. It doesn't say that dedicated reusable hard plastic (or aluminum) water bottles are a potential bacteria spawning ground.

    EDIT: Also, from your very same article:
    Municipal treated water is highly regulated, and is certainly safe to recommend for consumption. Bottled water is regulated, but not as stringently as municipally treated water. Consumers need to be aware that the quality of commercially manufactured bottled waters is quite variable, depending on the quality of the original water source as well as treatment(s) used to eliminate microbes in the final product.

    Yeah, Mrs. SKFM is definitely being rational by insisting on buying expensive bottled water that is less well regulated on average than municipal tap water, because she heard from somewhere that it might somehow give her cancer. She is totally and completely on base.

    The quote you are giving is for the entire category of bottled water. The article does say this:
    The Centers of Disease Control (CDC) has determined that specific treatment methods make bottled water safer for immunocompromised individuals. These include distillation, reverse osmosis, and absolute 1-micron filtration (6).

    Which to me implies that some commercially bottled waters are better/cleaner than tap. Presumably Mrs SKFM is purchasing from a company that uses one of these filtration processes. The article also says this about reusable bottles:
    As with bottled water, there is a risk of microbial contamination from reusing the Lexan® bottles without washing them appropriately or reuse despite visual evidence of wear and tear. Bacteria that may settle in the cracks and scratches of the bottle appear to pose a greater health risk than the possibility of chemicals leaching from the plastic during daily use.

    Hence my previous visible scratches/cracks comment.

    "The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    On bacteria, the closer to empty your bottle is, the worse it is likely to be from a bacteria perspective. If you do some simple googling, you will see that the common reccomendation is washing a water bottle in hot, soapy water after each use.

    To do what, exactly? Remove 99.9 percent of bacteria or make it perfectly safe to drink from?

    Hint: A quick rinse will do the latter.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    Your highest BPA doses come from your dental fillings. BPA is a confirmed endocrine disruptor.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    I've been using the same reusable water bottle for about a year now and I haven't washed it once. It's just water that I keep drinking, and I just don't see the point in washing a container that only had water in it.

    Haven't got sick yet, but it may just be a ticking time bomb!

    lonelyahava
  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    Your highest BPA doses come from your dental fillings. BPA is a confirmed endocrine disruptor.

    ? I'm not going to comment on the second part, but I did not know that about dental fillings. Of course I think I have mercury based ones, which may or may not give you cancer. So there's that.

    "The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    Your highest BPA doses come from your dental fillings. BPA is a confirmed endocrine disruptor.

    ? I'm not going to comment on the second part, but I did not know that about dental fillings. Of course I think I have mercury based ones, which may or may not give you cancer. So there's that.
    The plasticizers leech off pretty regularly. The EPA report on BPA covers it extensively. (It is like a 400 page tome). :P

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    I think if I can figure out how to recycle with no car in the middle of Tea Party Country, you don't really have any decent excuses, Space.

    Lh96QHG.png
    Gennenalyse RuebenBlackjack
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    If we can broaden the ambit of the thread slightly to environmental incentives, I have noticed a trend towards "hybrid only" parking spots and now my local mall has Tesla only spots (they dont have rapid chargers, but can trickle charge). These typically take the place of handicapped spaces. I am not a fan of this idea, since the type of car you have has no bearing on how far you can walk.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    There are charging stations in some parking lots around here. I don't think they've replaced handicapped spaces.

    There are no Tesla only spots because no one here could afford one.

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    Do stores generally have more than the required number of handy capped spots?

    This machine kills threads.
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    redx wrote: »
    Do stores generally have more than the required number of handy capped spots?

    By me they moved the handicapped spots back further to make room.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Paranoiac Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    Do Teslas have different chargers from other EVs? I've seen plenty of EV spots with chargers here going back years but they definitely don't replace the handicapped spots. Never seen Hybrid only here but probably because of how saturated Silicon Valley and California in general are with them.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited February 2013
    redx wrote: »
    Do stores generally have more than the required number of handy capped spots?

    By me they moved the handicapped spots back further to make room.

    Contact your local disability advocacy group and that will be reversed if the store doesn't want a large lawsuit. The positioning of handicap spots is mandated, along with the amount of spots in the lot. Usually it's like 1 handicap spot for every 25 regular parking stalls, and they must be the closest parking spot to the handicap accessible entrance than any other parking spot.

    Veevee on
    AManFromEarthGennenalyse RuebenNightDragonQuidzagdrobBlackjack
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    Do stores generally have more than the required number of handy capped spots?

    By me they moved the handicapped spots back further to make room.

    Contact your local disability advocacy group and that will be reversed if the store doesn't want a large lawsuit. The positioning of handicap spots is mandated, along with the amount of spots in the lot. Usually it's like 1 handicap spot for every 25 regular parking stalls, and they must be the closest parking spot to the handicap accessible entrance than any other parking spot.

    Yeah, that's pretty stupid, regardless of how many yuppies want to feel good about their car choices.

    Lh96QHG.png
    Harry DresdenGennenalyse RuebenQuidBlackjack
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    They probably put the electric stalls closer to save money on running wiring and such. Bottom lines, people!

    wpyz0Y5.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    I park in the hybrid spaces with my Golf TDI since I get 45-50mpg anyway. Though, I only really run into those parking spaces in the suburbs, and I think they're just as dumb as the "parent with child" spaces or whatever other nonsense they stick out in front of grocery stores these days.

    Should be handicapped spaces and then normal spaces. Though, I've always wondered how enforceable those non-standard spaces are. I guess you could get towed?

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I park in the hybrid spaces with my Golf TDI since I get 45-50mpg anyway. Though, I only really run into those parking spaces in the suburbs, and I think they're just as dumb as the "parent with child" spaces or whatever other nonsense they stick out in front of grocery stores these days.

    Should be handicapped spaces and then normal spaces. Though, I've always wondered how enforceable those non-standard spaces are. I guess you could get towed?

    I actually think parent with child or expectant mother spaces are fine, because they present legitimate reasons that you would not be able to walk as far. By contrast, I see no legitimate reason that owning a hybrid car means you need to walk a shorter distance.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I park in the hybrid spaces with my Golf TDI since I get 45-50mpg anyway. Though, I only really run into those parking spaces in the suburbs, and I think they're just as dumb as the "parent with child" spaces or whatever other nonsense they stick out in front of grocery stores these days.

    Should be handicapped spaces and then normal spaces. Though, I've always wondered how enforceable those non-standard spaces are. I guess you could get towed?

    The parent with child spaces are generally expectant mother spaces.

    Which, you know, not technically a handicap but a bitch of a deal when you need groceries and are seven months in.

    Blackjack
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I park in the hybrid spaces with my Golf TDI since I get 45-50mpg anyway. Though, I only really run into those parking spaces in the suburbs, and I think they're just as dumb as the "parent with child" spaces or whatever other nonsense they stick out in front of grocery stores these days.

    Should be handicapped spaces and then normal spaces. Though, I've always wondered how enforceable those non-standard spaces are. I guess you could get towed?

    The non-standard spaces are completely enforceable.

    When you park on private property, as long as the requirements are clearly posted, you can be towed for any arbitrary reason. I.e. 15 minute parking spaces, XXX Customers Only, Employee of the Month / Business Owner Only, Hybrid Parking, Expectant Mother, etc. Hell, some of the businesses around here used to have 'No Import' parking lots, and some of the Ford plants had the closest employee lots be 'Ford Only' and they sure as hell would tow any Toyota / Honda / GM vehicles that would be parked there.

    I don't have a problem with any business that chooses to designate specific use spaces. Like Veevee said, the number and locations of handicap spaces are mandated, so as long as they meet that mandate, a business can do whatever they want with their parking (including not providing it). If they want to provide Expectant Mother parking, it's a good thing - same thing with Hybrid / EV parking. For a healthy person, parking really doesn't matter. So it takes 30 seconds to walk in instead of 20...big deal. For a eight month pregnant mother, that extra 100 yard walk can be torture.

    Providing incentives for socially responsible behavior is a good thing. Also, with hybrids / EV's, you start looking at charging needs which are unique to those vehicles, so some asshole parking their Tundra in that space deprives a hybrid / EV owner of the chance to charge their vehicle. Even from a business / bottom line standpoint, it makes sense to encourage people who drive those vehicles as people with the income to pay a premium for a hybrid / EV are a group that you want to encourage as customers.

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I park in the hybrid spaces with my Golf TDI since I get 45-50mpg anyway. Though, I only really run into those parking spaces in the suburbs, and I think they're just as dumb as the "parent with child" spaces or whatever other nonsense they stick out in front of grocery stores these days.

    Should be handicapped spaces and then normal spaces. Though, I've always wondered how enforceable those non-standard spaces are. I guess you could get towed?

    The non-standard spaces are completely enforceable.

    When you park on private property, as long as the requirements are clearly posted, you can be towed for any arbitrary reason. I.e. 15 minute parking spaces, XXX Customers Only, Employee of the Month / Business Owner Only, Hybrid Parking, Expectant Mother, etc. Hell, some of the businesses around here used to have 'No Import' parking lots, and some of the Ford plants had the closest employee lots be 'Ford Only' and they sure as hell would tow any Toyota / Honda / GM vehicles that would be parked there.

    I don't have a problem with any business that chooses to designate specific use spaces. Like Veevee said, the number and locations of handicap spaces are mandated, so as long as they meet that mandate, a business can do whatever they want with their parking (including not providing it). If they want to provide Expectant Mother parking, it's a good thing - same thing with Hybrid / EV parking. For a healthy person, parking really doesn't matter. So it takes 30 seconds to walk in instead of 20...big deal. For a eight month pregnant mother, that extra 100 yard walk can be torture.

    Providing incentives for socially responsible behavior is a good thing. Also, with hybrids / EV's, you start looking at charging needs which are unique to those vehicles, so some asshole parking their Tundra in that space deprives a hybrid / EV owner of the chance to charge their vehicle. Even from a business / bottom line standpoint, it makes sense to encourage people who drive those vehicles as people with the income to pay a premium for a hybrid / EV are a group that you want to encourage as customers.

    By that thinking, we ought to have "luxury only" spots, because by me hybrid cars are hardly the expensive ones.

    I agree that incentivizing responsible behavior is a good thing, but when it comes to by rid cars, I think tax incentives can help make a decision, but noone is going to buy a hybrid car just for the better parking. Also, these spots (other than the tesla only spots) do not have chargers out here. The biggest problem I see with these spots though is that they feed into the negative stereotype of hybrid car owners as smug. Also, out here one of the most common hybrids is the Lexus RX, which barely gets better gas mileage than the normal version, and mostly uses the electric motor for better low end acceleration. . .

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    By that thinking, we ought to have "luxury only" spots, because by me hybrid cars are hardly the expensive ones.

    I agree that incentivizing responsible behavior is a good thing, but when it comes to by rid cars, I think tax incentives can help make a decision, but noone is going to buy a hybrid car just for the better parking. Also, these spots (other than the tesla only spots) do not have chargers out here. The biggest problem I see with these spots though is that they feed into the negative stereotype of hybrid car owners as smug. Also, out here one of the most common hybrids is the Lexus RX, which barely gets better gas mileage than the normal version, and mostly uses the electric motor for better low end acceleration. . .

    Who said that someone is going to buy a hybrid just because of better parking?

    But being able to use carpool lanes, getting better parking, and being able to plug-in while they are at the grocery store - along with spending less on gas, and receiving tax breaks - will make a different to some people who may not have chosen a hybrid otherwise.

    As for 'luxury only' parking, I think the response to that would be far, far more negative from most of their customers than any benefit. Hybrids aren't perceived as a 'rich people only' thing, but at the same time they do tend to attract people with more disposable income and (obviously) people who want to encourage socially responsible behavior.

    People who want to encourage socially responsible behavior are more likely to frequent businesses that...encourage socially responsible behavior. Like provide minor incentives for driving hybrid cars, like better parking spaces.

    That's ignoring the legitimate plug in concerns, where it's not feasible to provide chargers to every space, but it is feasible to have some spaces that allow plug in vehicles to park (closer to the building so less wiring) that aren't taken up by cars that don't enjoy the benefit.

    Also, are you stuck in 2005 or something? Hybrid owners as 'smug'? Hybrids are mainstream, pretty much every manufacturer offers at least one or two hybrid / EV model anymore. An increase in economy is an increase in economy. Just because you only notice the RX doesn't mean there aren't a lot of them out there. Again, as we've discussed many, many, many times, what you notice and experience is not typical and you really should stop trying to overlay your twisted world view over the rest of the country.

    So It GoesMayabird
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    By that thinking, we ought to have "luxury only" spots, because by me hybrid cars are hardly the expensive ones.

    I agree that incentivizing responsible behavior is a good thing, but when it comes to by rid cars, I think tax incentives can help make a decision, but noone is going to buy a hybrid car just for the better parking. Also, these spots (other than the tesla only spots) do not have chargers out here. The biggest problem I see with these spots though is that they feed into the negative stereotype of hybrid car owners as smug. Also, out here one of the most common hybrids is the Lexus RX, which barely gets better gas mileage than the normal version, and mostly uses the electric motor for better low end acceleration. . .

    Who said that someone is going to buy a hybrid just because of better parking?

    But being able to use carpool lanes, getting better parking, and being able to plug-in while they are at the grocery store - along with spending less on gas, and receiving tax breaks - will make a different to some people who may not have chosen a hybrid otherwise.

    As for 'luxury only' parking, I think the response to that would be far, far more negative from most of their customers than any benefit. Hybrids aren't perceived as a 'rich people only' thing, but at the same time they do tend to attract people with more disposable income and (obviously) people who want to encourage socially responsible behavior.

    People who want to encourage socially responsible behavior are more likely to frequent businesses that...encourage socially responsible behavior. Like provide minor incentives for driving hybrid cars, like better parking spaces.

    That's ignoring the legitimate plug in concerns, where it's not feasible to provide chargers to every space, but it is feasible to have some spaces that allow plug in vehicles to park (closer to the building so less wiring) that aren't taken up by cars that don't enjoy the benefit.

    Also, are you stuck in 2005 or something? Hybrid owners as 'smug'? Hybrids are mainstream, pretty much every manufacturer offers at least one or two hybrid / EV model anymore. An increase in economy is an increase in economy. Just because you only notice the RX doesn't mean there aren't a lot of them out there. Again, as we've discussed many, many, many times, what you notice and experience is not typical and you really should stop trying to overlay your twisted world view over the rest of the country.

    Well, there has been a backlash out here over the spots. A lot of people were upset and I know some people that stopped shopping there and go to a different mall now.

    I don't think all hybrid owners are smug, but the stereotype still seems to be out there, particularly for people that buy the more obvious hybrids like the Prius as opposed to a "normal" car with a hybrid engine. Personally, I'd feel weird about using those spaces, because like I said before, I can walk just fine and I remember when they were handicapped spots.

    I agree 100% on chargers, but the spots out here don't have them. The Tesla spots don't bother me because they have chargers and did not displace handicapped spots.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Paranoiac Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I park in the hybrid spaces with my Golf TDI since I get 45-50mpg anyway. Though, I only really run into those parking spaces in the suburbs, and I think they're just as dumb as the "parent with child" spaces or whatever other nonsense they stick out in front of grocery stores these days.

    Should be handicapped spaces and then normal spaces. Though, I've always wondered how enforceable those non-standard spaces are. I guess you could get towed?

    The non-standard spaces are completely enforceable.

    When you park on private property, as long as the requirements are clearly posted, you can be towed for any arbitrary reason. I.e. 15 minute parking spaces, XXX Customers Only, Employee of the Month / Business Owner Only, Hybrid Parking, Expectant Mother, etc. Hell, some of the businesses around here used to have 'No Import' parking lots, and some of the Ford plants had the closest employee lots be 'Ford Only' and they sure as hell would tow any Toyota / Honda / GM vehicles that would be parked there.

    I don't have a problem with any business that chooses to designate specific use spaces. Like Veevee said, the number and locations of handicap spaces are mandated, so as long as they meet that mandate, a business can do whatever they want with their parking (including not providing it). If they want to provide Expectant Mother parking, it's a good thing - same thing with Hybrid / EV parking. For a healthy person, parking really doesn't matter. So it takes 30 seconds to walk in instead of 20...big deal. For a eight month pregnant mother, that extra 100 yard walk can be torture.

    Providing incentives for socially responsible behavior is a good thing. Also, with hybrids / EV's, you start looking at charging needs which are unique to those vehicles, so some asshole parking their Tundra in that space deprives a hybrid / EV owner of the chance to charge their vehicle. Even from a business / bottom line standpoint, it makes sense to encourage people who drive those vehicles as people with the income to pay a premium for a hybrid / EV are a group that you want to encourage as customers.

    By that thinking, we ought to have "luxury only" spots, because by me hybrid cars are hardly the expensive ones.

    Oh you. 8->

    So far this thread has been:

    "I CAN'T RECYCLE BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE CURB SIDE PICKUP!"

    "Well what if you just drove it to a sorting station while you were going to someplace else--"

    "I'M NOT GOING TO WASTE TIME DOING THAT, WHAT IF SOMEBODY SAW ME WITH THE POORS OR I GOT STABBED BY A HOBO?!! PLUS THE AMOUNT OF GAS MY LUXURY CAR WITH IT'S GIANT ENGINE USES WOULD BE WASTEFUL"

    "Well what if you reduced the amount of recyclables you consume and throw out..."

    "WELL I COULD BUT THEN MY WIFE WOULD HAVE TO DRINK NON-BOTTLED WATER AND SHE MIGHT GET BREAST CANCER FROM THE HIGHLY REGULATED CITY WATER."

    "That's kind of nuts..."

    "AND SPECKLED PLASTICS!"

    "This isn't making a whole lot of sense..."

    "PEOPLE ARE CALLING ME OUT ON MY BULLSHIT AND THAT IS UNPRODUCTIVE IN A DISCUSSION COULD WE CHANGE THE TOPIC PLEASE? WHAT ABOUT INCENTIVIZING GREEN BEHAVIOR IN GENERAL? WHAT ABOUT HYBRID AND EV ONLY SPACES THOSE ARE SOME BULLSHIT AMIRITE?!!"

    "Well the wiring to charge them necessitates that they be closer to the building, and it doesn't hurt to incentivize driving more environmentally friendly vehicles, plus people driving Hybrid and Electric vehicles tend to be a little bit more affluent."

    "WHAT ABOUT ME I SHOULD GET A SPECIAL PARKING PLACE FOR MY GAS GUZZLING LUXURY CAR AND ALL MY MONEY."




    Your lack of ability to empathize with anyone other than yourself and your immediate family, acknowledge the negative impact you and your actions have on the world, or internalize reasoned debate the conclusions of which inconvenience you in the slightest continues to astound. But I guess that's because you're just so much different from us poors. Maybe someday you'll start a thread with the honest intent of learning something and changing the world around you but it doesn't look like today's that day. Shine on you crazy upper-middle-class-that buys-$3000-designer-coats-but isn't-quite-upper-class. Shine on. 8->

    zagdrobMojo_JojoQuidIncenjucarspacekungfumanSo It GoesBogartBeef AvengerLoveIsUnityBlackjackArdol
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    The shopping mall you described is dumb and not indicative of the vast majority of places with those types of spaces.

    Which is just another in a long line of things you've described in this thread.

    Edit: Also classy move with the quotation marks.

    Quid on
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I park in the hybrid spaces with my Golf TDI since I get 45-50mpg anyway. Though, I only really run into those parking spaces in the suburbs, and I think they're just as dumb as the "parent with child" spaces or whatever other nonsense they stick out in front of grocery stores these days.

    Should be handicapped spaces and then normal spaces. Though, I've always wondered how enforceable those non-standard spaces are. I guess you could get towed?

    The non-standard spaces are completely enforceable.

    When you park on private property, as long as the requirements are clearly posted, you can be towed for any arbitrary reason. I.e. 15 minute parking spaces, XXX Customers Only, Employee of the Month / Business Owner Only, Hybrid Parking, Expectant Mother, etc. Hell, some of the businesses around here used to have 'No Import' parking lots, and some of the Ford plants had the closest employee lots be 'Ford Only' and they sure as hell would tow any Toyota / Honda / GM vehicles that would be parked there.

    I don't have a problem with any business that chooses to designate specific use spaces. Like Veevee said, the number and locations of handicap spaces are mandated, so as long as they meet that mandate, a business can do whatever they want with their parking (including not providing it). If they want to provide Expectant Mother parking, it's a good thing - same thing with Hybrid / EV parking. For a healthy person, parking really doesn't matter. So it takes 30 seconds to walk in instead of 20...big deal. For a eight month pregnant mother, that extra 100 yard walk can be torture.

    Providing incentives for socially responsible behavior is a good thing. Also, with hybrids / EV's, you start looking at charging needs which are unique to those vehicles, so some asshole parking their Tundra in that space deprives a hybrid / EV owner of the chance to charge their vehicle. Even from a business / bottom line standpoint, it makes sense to encourage people who drive those vehicles as people with the income to pay a premium for a hybrid / EV are a group that you want to encourage as customers.

    By that thinking, we ought to have "luxury only" spots, because by me hybrid cars are hardly the expensive ones.

    Oh you. 8->

    So far this thread has been:

    "I CAN'T RECYCLE BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE CURB SIDE PICKUP!"

    "Well what if you just drove it to a sorting station while you were going to someplace else--"

    "I'M NOT GOING TO WASTE TIME DOING THAT, WHAT IF SOMEBODY SAW ME WITH THE POORS OR I GOT STABBED BY A HOBO?!! PLUS THE AMOUNT OF GAS MY LUXURY CAR WITH IT'S GIANT ENGINE USES WOULD BE WASTEFUL"

    "Well what if you reduced the amount of recyclables you consume and throw out..."

    "WELL I COULD BUT THEN MY WIFE WOULD HAVE TO DRINK NON-BOTTLED WATER AND SHE MIGHT GET BREAST CANCER FROM THE HIGHLY REGULATED CITY WATER."

    "That's kind of nuts..."

    "AND SPECKLED PLASTICS!"

    "This isn't making a whole lot of sense..."

    "PEOPLE ARE CALLING ME OUT ON MY BULLSHIT AND THAT IS UNPRODUCTIVE IN A DISCUSSION COULD WE CHANGE THE TOPIC PLEASE? WHAT ABOUT INCENTIVIZING GREEN BEHAVIOR IN GENERAL? WHAT ABOUT HYBRID AND EV ONLY SPACES THOSE ARE SOME BULLSHIT AMIRITE?!!"

    "Well the wiring to charge them necessitates that they be closer to the building, and it doesn't hurt to incentivize driving more environmentally friendly vehicles, plus people driving Hybrid and Electric vehicles tend to be a little bit more affluent."

    "WHAT ABOUT ME I SHOULD GET A SPECIAL PARKING PLACE FOR MY GAS GUZZLING LUXURY CAR AND ALL MY MONEY."




    Your lack of ability to empathize with anyone other than yourself and your immediate family, acknowledge the negative impact you and your actions have on the world, or internalize reasoned debate the conclusions of which inconvenience you in the slightest continues to astound. But I guess that's because you're just so much different from us poors. Maybe someday you'll start a thread with the honest intent of learning something and changing the world around you but it doesn't look like today's that day. Shine on you crazy upper-middle-class-that buys-$3000-designer-coats-but isn't-quite-upper-class. Shine on. 8->

    I don't think this is fair (but it is funny). We dont have drop off sites near me (I looked into it(. I posted earlier that I am going to look into bottle return at target, and explained exactly why the other bottle return I know of by me makes me uncomfortable. Isn't it strange that its a seperate entrance into a very tiny space with no way to contact an employee if there is a problem?

    I also posted that we switched to a new (environmentally friendly) dish soap that is working better with the glasses, so we should be using fewer plastic cups.

    On cars, I never said we should have luxury spaces, just that if the justification for hybrid spaces (without chargers) is affluence, then you might as well just say "these spots are for expensive cars," which is a ridiculous idea. I think that (charging concerns asside) designated spots don't make sense unless they are based on the inability to walk distance.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Quid wrote: »
    The shopping mall you described is dumb and not indicative of the vast majority of places with those types of spaces.

    Which is just another in a long line of things you've described in this thread.

    Edit: Also classy move with the quotation marks.

    And if that is the case, that is good. Those are the only spaces like that which I have seen anywhere.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Environmental friendly dish soap? What the hell is wrong with your dishwasher that you can't wash your glasses in it?

    Have you not used the cleaning agent for a dishwasher to break down hard water and mineral build ups?

    Ladies.
  • MarkWebsterMarkWebster Ottersaurus Rex OntarioRegistered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    I park in the hybrid spaces with my Golf TDI since I get 45-50mpg anyway. Though, I only really run into those parking spaces in the suburbs, and I think they're just as dumb as the "parent with child" spaces or whatever other nonsense they stick out in front of grocery stores these days.

    Should be handicapped spaces and then normal spaces. Though, I've always wondered how enforceable those non-standard spaces are. I guess you could get towed?

    The non-standard spaces are completely enforceable.

    When you park on private property, as long as the requirements are clearly posted, you can be towed for any arbitrary reason. I.e. 15 minute parking spaces, XXX Customers Only, Employee of the Month / Business Owner Only, Hybrid Parking, Expectant Mother, etc. Hell, some of the businesses around here used to have 'No Import' parking lots, and some of the Ford plants had the closest employee lots be 'Ford Only' and they sure as hell would tow any Toyota / Honda / GM vehicles that would be parked there.

    I don't have a problem with any business that chooses to designate specific use spaces. Like Veevee said, the number and locations of handicap spaces are mandated, so as long as they meet that mandate, a business can do whatever they want with their parking (including not providing it). If they want to provide Expectant Mother parking, it's a good thing - same thing with Hybrid / EV parking. For a healthy person, parking really doesn't matter. So it takes 30 seconds to walk in instead of 20...big deal. For a eight month pregnant mother, that extra 100 yard walk can be torture.

    Providing incentives for socially responsible behavior is a good thing. Also, with hybrids / EV's, you start looking at charging needs which are unique to those vehicles, so some asshole parking their Tundra in that space deprives a hybrid / EV owner of the chance to charge their vehicle. Even from a business / bottom line standpoint, it makes sense to encourage people who drive those vehicles as people with the income to pay a premium for a hybrid / EV are a group that you want to encourage as customers.

    By that thinking, we ought to have "luxury only" spots, because by me hybrid cars are hardly the expensive ones.

    Oh you. 8->

    So far this thread has been:

    "I CAN'T RECYCLE BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE CURB SIDE PICKUP!"

    "Well what if you just drove it to a sorting station while you were going to someplace else--"

    "I'M NOT GOING TO WASTE TIME DOING THAT, WHAT IF SOMEBODY SAW ME WITH THE POORS OR I GOT STABBED BY A HOBO?!! PLUS THE AMOUNT OF GAS MY LUXURY CAR WITH IT'S GIANT ENGINE USES WOULD BE WASTEFUL"

    "Well what if you reduced the amount of recyclables you consume and throw out..."

    "WELL I COULD BUT THEN MY WIFE WOULD HAVE TO DRINK NON-BOTTLED WATER AND SHE MIGHT GET BREAST CANCER FROM THE HIGHLY REGULATED CITY WATER."

    "That's kind of nuts..."

    "AND SPECKLED PLASTICS!"

    "This isn't making a whole lot of sense..."

    "PEOPLE ARE CALLING ME OUT ON MY BULLSHIT AND THAT IS UNPRODUCTIVE IN A DISCUSSION COULD WE CHANGE THE TOPIC PLEASE? WHAT ABOUT INCENTIVIZING GREEN BEHAVIOR IN GENERAL? WHAT ABOUT HYBRID AND EV ONLY SPACES THOSE ARE SOME BULLSHIT AMIRITE?!!"

    "Well the wiring to charge them necessitates that they be closer to the building, and it doesn't hurt to incentivize driving more environmentally friendly vehicles, plus people driving Hybrid and Electric vehicles tend to be a little bit more affluent."

    "WHAT ABOUT ME I SHOULD GET A SPECIAL PARKING PLACE FOR MY GAS GUZZLING LUXURY CAR AND ALL MY MONEY."




    Your lack of ability to empathize with anyone other than yourself and your immediate family, acknowledge the negative impact you and your actions have on the world, or internalize reasoned debate the conclusions of which inconvenience you in the slightest continues to astound. But I guess that's because you're just so much different from us poors. Maybe someday you'll start a thread with the honest intent of learning something and changing the world around you but it doesn't look like today's that day. Shine on you crazy upper-middle-class-that buys-$3000-designer-coats-but isn't-quite-upper-class. Shine on. 8->

    IF YOU'RE NOT MADE FROM METAL, GASOLINE OR BACON, GET THE F*CK OUT.

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Environmental friendly dish soap? What the hell is wrong with your dishwasher that you can't wash your glasses in it?

    Have you not used the cleaning agent for a dishwasher to break down hard water and mineral build ups?
    Effective in July, makers of dishwasher detergents such as Cascade and Finish and Palmolive eliminated phosphates from their products, reformulating trusted brands that Americans hadn't thought much about for years. The move, which was required by the governments of several states including Pennsylvania, was made relatively quietly.

    But American kitchens began filling with complaints when people started seeing white film on their dishes and getting otherwise unappetizing results. Their determined efforts to get sparkling dishes again have sent ripples through related businesses, from a rash of phone calls to appliance stores and plumbers to sales boosts for any product that might offer relief.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/business/news/reformulated-dishwasher-detergent-forces-consumers-and-businesses-to-adjust-281506/

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    So... you're not using something to break down minerals in your dishwasher, got it.

    That's all that is by the way, minerals in the water. Hence water softeners. You should look into something for that if it's a big issue for you. Easiest one is getting Jet Dry and slapping it in the water softener receptacle of your dishwasher once a month.

    Ladies.
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    And that's all the phosphates in soaps used to do, make water softer.

    Ladies.
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    bowen wrote: »
    So... you're not using something to break down minerals in your dishwasher, got it.

    That's all that is by the way, minerals in the water. Hence water softeners. You should look into something for that if it's a big issue for you. Easiest one is getting Jet Dry and slapping it in the water softener receptacle of your dishwasher once a month.

    Tried Jet Dry. Wasn't thrilled with the results (also, my detergent supposedly had a "powerball" that was supposed to be a rinse agent) but this new one seems to work better.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
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