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Official I Hate [Final Fantasy] Thread: Dead like FF XIV's userbase. New thread.

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Posts

  • Shenl742Shenl742 Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Shen wrote: »
    Also what is up with Fujin?

    Prolly something of a lost in translation thing. She can talk fine, as you find out in her heartfelt plea on Disk 3, but speaks in short, authoritative commands instead.

    In the japanese version she speaks exclusively in kanji symbols, which are used to write out important words and names. She doesn't use any hiragana, which is more or less the basic japanese alphabet used for everything else in-between. So yeah, someone who only speaks in SINGLE! WORDS! is probably as much as an approximate translation as you can get.

    Shenl742 on
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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    The explanation I found was that in the original, she spoke only in kanji.

    Which really gets me no closer to knowing why she speaks like that.

    Because why does she speak only in kanji!?

    Oh brilliant
  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    ACCEPTABLE. ANSWER.

  • CenoCeno pizza time Registered User regular
    The fact that Square doesn't have the code to their most successful/popular/beloved/whatever Final Fantasy game is utterly baffling.

    I am flummoxed.

    Did they lose it? Trash it? Did it fall out of someone's pocket at the park? Did a dog eat it?

  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    Ceno wrote: »
    The fact that Square doesn't have the code to their most successful/popular/beloved/whatever Final Fantasy game is utterly baffling.

    I am flummoxed.

    Did they lose it? Trash it? Did it fall out of someone's pocket at the park? Did a dog eat it?

    I think the code for the GFs in FF8 overwrote it.

    FF8 joke!

  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    That's been coming up a lot in a bunch of threads lately!

    Apparently it was just common practice back in the day to throw the code away. Free up the dev computers or some such.

    Yeah, it's crazy. You'd think someone would have swiped it to sell on eBay.

    Oh brilliant
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    heenato wrote: »
    For at least the first reason, because it will be nice to be ABLE to get the PC version, and not have it cost silly amounts of dollars.

    And also maybe work? That'd be nice, too.

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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    That's been coming up a lot in a bunch of threads lately!

    Apparently it was just common practice back in the day to throw the code away. Free up the dev computers or some such.

    Yeah, it's crazy. You'd think someone would have swiped it to sell on eBay.

    It's like how tons of early episodes of the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson were taped over. Tapes were expensive in the 60s, and no one figured we could sell DVDs of this stuff 40 years later.

  • JurgJurg In a TeacupRegistered User regular
    Re: FFX-2. It starts out being all poppy and stuff, which is actually kind of cool. They should have done the whole game like that. It would have been fun and not very serious. Then they come in with the Vegnagun plot which is a tonal shift that just does not work at all. Once you have Dresspheres and bubblegum pop and massages and spa scenes, I am not going to take you seriously, game. Especially when you then try to keep a straight face while singing a ballad in the Lightning Plains.

    Also, the most hidden that secrets should ever be, if they affect the gameplay at all is, "findable through a thorough search." FFV and VI are loaded with hidden shit, but if you are thorough and talk to people, and explore, you will be able to find it. Bullshit like the Zodiac Spear and large portions of FFX-2 annoy the crap out of me.

    Also, with the exception of Sphere Break, I just could not bring myself to give a shit about any of the characters or sidequests. I never beat it, but throughout my time playing it, I just wanted it to be over with.

    The fights are okay, but it's the same deal as Grandia III. It doesn't matter how good the fights are if the story is bad enough.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Jurg wrote: »
    Re: FFX-2. It starts out being all poppy and stuff, which is actually kind of cool. They should have done the whole game like that. It would have been fun and not very serious. Then they come in with the Vegnagun plot which is a tonal shift that just does not work at all. Once you have Dresspheres and bubblegum pop and massages and spa scenes, I am not going to take you seriously, game. Especially when you then try to keep a straight face while singing a ballad in the Lightning Plains.

    Also, the most hidden that secrets should ever be, if they affect the gameplay at all is, "findable through a thorough search." FFV and VI are loaded with hidden shit, but if you are thorough and talk to people, and explore, you will be able to find it. Bullshit like the Zodiac Spear and large portions of FFX-2 annoy the crap out of me.

    Also, with the exception of Sphere Break, I just could not bring myself to give a shit about any of the characters or sidequests. I never beat it, but throughout my time playing it, I just wanted it to be over with.

    The fights are okay, but it's the same deal as Grandia III. It doesn't matter how good the fights are if the story is bad enough.

    I've always looked at it the other way. They started out with the pop almost jammed down your throat, but then backed off and settled down into standard storytelling mode. Which is why I've always felt that if anybody ever bitches about X-2 being all J-pop happy fun time, then they just outed themselves as somebody who only played the game for 3 and a half minutes. The same length of time the opening FMV is. Not that the game isn't lighthearted here and there. It's not Grrl Powah. It's just regular girl power.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    I got past that, I felt awkward playing it for a while, but I loved Rikku in FFX, was nice seeing her a little more grown up, and kickass Yuna was nice. Paine was an obvious "Lulu isn't pretty enough to stick in a bunch of costumes" copout though.

    I got about halfway through before giving up on it. The initial setup was crazy interesting, but then nothing really got delivered on it and I lost interest. :P

    Oh brilliant
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Huh, so if they threw out the FFVII source I wonder how they retained source to their SNES library and earlier?

    I guess it could be as simple as something like compiled SNES code being easier to decompile.

    edit: Googling around it looks like the SNES just ran straight machine assembly, so yeah probably easier for them to reacquire. Also I did not know that super mario RPG's cartridge actually had a coprocessor embedded on it that was straight up a more powerful version of the console's primary CPU that is rad.

    Dehumanized on
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    Paine is actually a really great character. Especially if you do the one sidequest that reveals all her backstory.

    I am an unapologetic FFX-2 fan, though.

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  • C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    Jurg wrote: »
    Also, the most hidden that secrets should ever be, if they affect the gameplay at all is, "findable through a thorough search." FFV and VI are loaded with hidden shit, but if you are thorough and talk to people, and explore, you will be able to find it. Bullshit like the Zodiac Spear and large portions of FFX-2 annoy the crap out of me.

    Ok about the other things, but...

    Zodiac Spear was XII. Are your memories mixing Final Fantasy's?

  • DraguscloudDraguscloud Registered User regular
    Huh, so if they threw out the FFVII source I wonder how they retained source to their SNES library and earlier?

    I guess it could be as simple as something like compiled SNES code being easier to decompile.

    edit: Googling around it looks like the SNES just ran straight machine assembly, so yeah probably easier for them to reacquire. Also I did not know that super mario RPG's cartridge actually had a coprocessor embedded on it that was straight up a more powerful version of the console's primary CPU that is rad.

    From what someone on this forum said Square just tossed out the assets for games after their release. Ends up it took FFVII PC to get them to stop this practice.

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Maybe since Eidos was involved as publisher, they preserved it? Chances are that they had significantly better archival practices than "eh screw it, throw it out".

    Dehumanized on
  • LucidLucid Registered User regular
    Lucid wrote: »
    Jurg wrote: »
    Lucid wrote: »
    Jurg wrote: »
    Come on. I can't be the only one that thinks those screens look hideous. The actual game sounds pretty fun, but damn are those some ugly graphics. Also, I'd like to see them invent some new classes instead of just rehashing the classics.

    The Memorist is a new job. Inventing new jobs would just be variants of the old jobs anyways. Or they would wreak havoc with any semblance of balance. Like most of the new jobs in FFV gba.

    re: visuals, they don't look much different than snes era(odd, considering you're playing V which looks similar). Which is fine for me.

    Actually, FFV has art direction, which is why the graphics are technologically worse but still look better. Things look like they belong together. This thing is just jarring and annoying to look at.

    Also, there's no reason that new jobs would just be variants on old jobs. Obviously, people want to see a lot of their favorite jobs, but if they never did anything new than the series would just get stale.

    This game just seems like it is riding FFV's dick super hard. Now, if you're going to copy any game, that's the one to copy, but the pessimist in me wants to think that they have no idea why FFV is fun. Instead, "Jobs!" While they are definitely very cool, what makes them work is how they meld together. FFX-2, for instance, had a Job system, but that game sucks because it is all over the place thematically and mechanically, and is filled with awful sidequests. Blue Dragon, too, wasn't very good, and that was very FFV-ish too.

    How does FF dimensions not have art direction? Perhaps you could elaborate. I don't understand this reaction based on a few screens.

    There is a new ability type named 'Fusion abilities' similar to dual techs from chrono trigger(except more, and you wouldn't necessarily require two characters). This was not present in FF V. Perhaps if you looked at the job list, you'd realize that there are a few jobs that weren't even present in FF V(Dark Knight, Devout, Magus). There are also more skill slots present.

    They also added Memorist, which is new. The jobs have been modified with skills of previous jobs being added to others. I'm not sure what you want in terms of new jobs. What would they be except new names for what will be dealing damage, healing, or whatever else? There isn't exactly a lot of room for new content in this regard.

    I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that the jobs in FF Dimensions do not meld well together(?), without having played it.

    Dimensions looks to rip on FF3 for jobs, not 5.

    Also Fusion abilities are ripped from FF4 After Years. Sprite style looks to be ripped from the PSP FF1/2 remake or FF4 complete. Take your pick.

    Basically its a game that borrows heavily, but I would still play the hell out of it given an opportunity.

    Four Heroes of Light had a ton of different classes that they could have culled some from, shame they didn't. Even if the moves in said classes werent always that original.

    The sprite style is probably taken from AY, but they also look similar to FF VI, or Romancing Saga. I don't think a lineage of visual style is some kind of indicator of 'ripping'.

    After Years Banding techs weren't really based in pre existing abilities though, more the commands(like attack, or white magic, etc). I think it's a stretch to say it's a rip.

    Here's a list of them;
    Fusion Abilities

    Note: Red Magic Lv1~4 will work in place of White and Black Magic Lv1~4.
    If two levels are given for an ability, this means you have to be using the job to learn the F-Ability at the lower level, or if you're using a different job, you must equip the higher level ability.

    Magic Missile = Poisona (White Magic Lv1) + Poison (Black Magic Lv2)
    Heave = Pillage (Thief Lv1) + Body Blow (Warrior Lv3)
    Thunderblade = Thunder (Black Magic Lv1) + Strike (Warrior Lv0 or Lv1)
    Magic Bomb = Cure (White Magic Lv1) + Fire (Black Magic Lv1)
    Gale Kick = Sylph (Summon Lv0 or Lv1) + Kick (Monk Lv0 or Lv1)

    Magic Bomb 2 = Cura (White Magic Lv3) + Fira (Black Magic Lv3)
    Magic Pummel = Aurablast (Monk Lv6) + Runic (Red Mage Lv8)

    Self-Destruct = Focus (Monk Lv3) + Firaga (Black Magic Lv6)

    Magic Bomb 3 = Curaga (White Magic Lv7) + Firaga (Black Magic Lv6)

    Deep Freeze = Stop (Black Magic Lv5) + Shiva (Summon Lv3)
    Grand Trine = Thundaga (Black Magic Lv6) + Ramuh (Summon Lv2)
    Meltdown = Beserk (White Magic Lv6) + Ifrit (Summon Lv3)
    Dark Judgement = Vacuum Wave (Monk Lv6) + Diablos (Summon Lv6)

    Exclusive to the Warriors of Light
    Aquabreath = Blizzara (Black Magic Lv3) + Blizzard Breath (Dragoon Lv2)
    Boost Jump = Raid (Warrior Lv7) + Jump (Dragoon Lv8)

    Love Poem = Song of Affection (Bard Lv9) + Heal Breath (Dragoon Lv6)
    Aura = Protect (White Magic Lv3) + Song of Strength (Bard Lv5 or Lv7)
    Order = Song of Stamina (Bard Lv1) + Escape (Thief Lv3)

    White Draw = Blink (White Magic Lv5) + Dragon Sword (Dragoon Lv13)
    White Wind = Chakra (Monk Lv13) + Heal Breath (Dragoon Lv6)

    Hastega = Haste (White Magic Lv6) + Song of Agility (Bard Lv14)
    Variant Blow = Assault (Warrior Lv17) + Charge (Knight Lv0 or Lv1)
    Life Divide = Mug (Thief Lv16) + Muneuchi (Knight Lv3)
    Mighty Wall = War Cry (Warrior Lv15) + Mighty Guard (Knight Lv7)

    Esunaga = Esuna (White Magic Lv7) + Angel Song (Bard Lv17)
    Dispelga = Dispel (White Magic Lv8) + Alexander (Summon Lv6)
    Maximum White Magic = Sentinel (Knight Lv9) + Blessing (Devout Lv0 or Lv9)

    Shock = Song of Ruin (Bard Lv20) + Bladeblitz (Knight Lv17)
    Final Heaven = Earth-Rending Fury (Monk Lv20) + Holy (White Magic Lv8)
    Renew = Curaga (White Magic Lv7) + Dragon Soul (Dragoon Lv20)

    Exclusive to the Warriors of Darkness
    Smash = Chi Blast (Monk Lv4) + Bullseye (Ranger Lv0 or Lv1)
    Steal Heart = Steal (Thief Lv0 or Lv7) + Aim: Heart (Ranger Lv8)

    Cripple = Counter (Monk Lv11) + Darkness (Dark Knight Lv0 or Lv1)
    Dark = Cura (White Magic Lv3) + Curse (Dark Knight Lv3)
    Provoke = Body Blow (Warrior Lv3) + Charm (Dark Knight Lv0 or Lv9)

    Two-Stage Mist = Raid (Warrior Lv7) + Protection (Ranger Lv14)
    Capoella = Kick (Monk Lv1) + Drain Samba (Dancer Lv1)
    ID Break = Strike (Warrior Lv0 or Lv1) + Fast Aim (Ranger Lv12)

    Iai = Odin (Summon Lv4) + Mighty Blade (Dark KNight Lv17)
    Tempest = Vacuum Wave (Monk Lv15) + Gale (Ninja Lv8)
    Hex = Wonder Step (Dancer Lv16) + Shadowbind (Ninja Lv16)

    Feather Strike = Exploding Fist (Monk Lv18) + Mirage (Ninja Lv17)
    Moogle Dance = Call (Summoner Lv18) + Weak Polka (Dancer Lv5)

    Chaotic Moon = Rapid Fire (Ranger Lv20) + Stealth Kill (Ninja Lv18)
    Dark Star = Meteor (Black Magic Lv8) + Dark Sword (Dark Knight Lv20)
    Fantasy Battle Dance = Vertical Fall (Monk Lv17) + Trance (Dancer Lv20)

  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Ceno wrote: »
    The fact that Square doesn't have the code to their most successful/popular/beloved/whatever Final Fantasy game is utterly baffling.

    I am flummoxed.

    Did they lose it? Trash it? Did it fall out of someone's pocket at the park? Did a dog eat it?

    The funniest story of this sort that I've read is that Primal Rage can't even be properly/accurately ported (to recent arcade re-releases) because of copy protection that now-defunct Devs put in the game. Game sucked ass, but it was a pretty big and successful release back in the day.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Fusion abilities? Banding?

    Back in the day, we called that shit Dual and Triple techs, son! Crono and Frog, X-slashin' through all the mofo's. And sometimes Robo would do a run in at the end. Why? 'Cuz fuck you Dalton, that's why.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • NeurotikaNeurotika Registered User regular
    Wow, if a Mystic Urn dude pops up during a BMS, you get a TON more xp for the song.

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Gimmie Elixir.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Are dark note music tracks supposed to be random? Because I've got 10 dark notes, but I'm already getting triplicates and quadruplets. If I have to play through XII's ending theme again... well I will, because it's a pretty cool song. But fucking hell, give me something different.

    edit: Ugh, Zanarkand again...

    double edit: Atma Weapon music from VI!!! All is forgiven.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • EvilRedEyeEvilRedEye Registered User regular
    Re: source code shenanigans, I was surprised to hear that Bluepoint actually reverse engineer the final code for their HD remasters rather than using the source code. 'Tis why their work has such a good reputation while stuff like the Silent Hill remasters struggle.

    Gone.
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    So Theatrhythm is awesome

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    EvilRedEye wrote: »
    Re: source code shenanigans, I was surprised to hear that Bluepoint actually reverse engineer the final code for their HD remasters rather than using the source code. 'Tis why their work has such a good reputation while stuff like the Silent Hill remasters struggle.

    No kidding? And their work on the MGS collection is something I would use as the definitive example of how to do an HD port.

    It does make me wonder now. How much work can you do to a game, when the only thing you have to work with is the finished pressed disc/iso? Obviously the hackers and the like do it all the time, and this is how unofficial translation patches are created. Still, I assume it's a different matter to have to forcibly crack open a game like that, and to have the source code right there. It's easier to change the script at the source, rather than do an entire script dump, change it, reinsert it, and make sure nothing got funky in the process.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    I'm seeming to have trouble hitting up arrows in Theatrhythm for a reason I can't fully figure out

  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Maybe since Eidos was involved as publisher, they preserved it? Chances are that they had significantly better archival practices than "eh screw it, throw it out".

    I get the impression that it's exceedingly common to not keep track of these things. Jordan Mechner's dad recently ran across the source code for Karateka when cleaning out his closets. The BBC used to record over its original tapes to save money, leading to lost episodes of Doctor Who and other shows. And NASA apparently managed to tape over their original recording of the moon landing, an Australian recording of the original signal, and the backups of the Australian copies.

    Even without actively destructive routines at work, it's easy to imagine things getting lost, especially if there was an office move at any point, or if the wrong person was let go or left the company. And anyway, I don't know that the publisher would even have the source code.

    Orogogus on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    I forgot how damn cool the final dungeon in FF7 is. Probably the second best in both music and location, after 4's. Hell, the entire later part of the game is reminding me why this is up with my favourites. Unlike most in the series, I never dread the tedium of the final dungeon, too.

    I was kind of "meh" when I started this game up, but damn it picks up.

    I've had the game freeze twice now, though...which sucks. Almost certainly the PS2's fault, being a consistently troublesome console since its release.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    The no source code thing is bunk anyway. Fan patchers have been pulling apart and recoding games for ages (including ff7)

    Nobody back then (or even now really) obfuscates code.

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  • CenoCeno pizza time Registered User regular
    I am now playing through VII again.

  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Ff7's Northern Crater? It's not the worst, but it definitely is not my favorite. Top 3 might be (in no particular order) FF4, FF6 and FF8. Hmm...I didn't realize how much I didn't like FF13, 13-2s and 10s final dungeons.

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  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    6 had the best, I enjoyed the three team mechanic. Also the bosses were cool.

    7 was okay. Really short and linear, not much to see or do. I did really like the iron giant though.

    4 was great because of all the rare drop gear in it. You could get all kinds of wild stuff most people never saw.

    11 still has the best dungeons, period, though.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I'll bet you that you only remember IV's final dungeon fondly because they played the Red Wings theme through it. :P

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Difference of opinion and all. I also find Northern Crater to be very boring. Very few bosses, very little to do. The only slightly interesting bit is the one save point that you control.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    FF6's final dungeon is horrid. The team splitting mechanic is retarded in a game where you have to grind magic for each character.
    I'll bet you that you only remember IV's final dungeon fondly because they played the Red Wings theme through it. :P

    Bosses as random encounters and its on the moon.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    See, again, difference of opinion. I love the split dungeons in FF VI. They wanted to do something similar in VII and failed miserably at it.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    Oh, right, it wasn't the only one, was it? Absolutely hated every second the game forced you to play the "B team". And in the final dungeon, if you played it as it suggested, you'd have the C team, with zero magic of any kind, no levels, and general uselessness.

    At least you don't have to do the Final Dungeon with multiple teams.

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  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    6 was genius. Most people only used one team so everyone else was weaker, but if you split your strong guys up they could prop up your weaker teams.

    Hell route 2 I believe even gave you some fixed dice right in the second room so even a weak setzer could prop a team up.

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Umm, you know you can split up your party right? Put you know, one magic user from your uber party on each team.

    You also know that to get a full 12 man party for the final dungeon you need to use quite a few of those assholes on various side missions to get their equipment right? You do also know that by fighting Cactaur's in the desert you can get anyone the essential spells in about five minutes?

    And that you don't need magic at all to beat FF VI easily.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    Or you can just mop up the entire place with one party and not bother.

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This discussion has been closed.