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Avengers: AvX CHAMPIONS. "wedabes" declares Captain America.

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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    it's still a death, and it still matters.

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    LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    Speaking of Avengers Arena and character deaths:
    The death of Red Raven actually bothered me a bit more since it was so brutal and pointlessly gratuitous, especially since there was zero dramatic build. It was basically "Let's murder a character simply to stop people from asking 'why don't they just fly off the island?' all the time". Even though the character was a zero-personality red shirt meat puppet, it's the closest AA has come so far to being the kind of book I was hoping it wouldn't be.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    I disagree.

    Well, to the fact that it matters.

    It is clearly a death, yeah. And Arcade is evil for causing it. There are other deaths of characters with actual history and personality in the very same series that have made me both furious and pretty dang sad.

    But like I said, it is essentially the same as an extra or otherwise not-main cast character being killed in a movie or TV show. Just because I don't flip out every time a red shirt dies because think of the human cost doesn't mean I lack basic human empathy and that is a shitty thing to say to someone regardless.

    BlankZoe on
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    No, it wasn't.

    And I really don't think it is fucked up to say a character that was created exclusively to be killed one issue after appearing after speaking no lines of dialogue doesn't really count as a character death.

    That Red Raven was actually created in 1991.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Oh wow, really?

    I honestly thought that she was part of the Braddock kids.

    Then yeah that is actually kind of shitty of Hopeless, didn't even give her a line of dialogue.

    I still enjoy the series and think it's well written but that is some sloppy shit.

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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    ooooooooooh snaaaaaaaaaap

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Uh what

    how is that a snap

    I honestly didn't know and now that I do yeah that death is shocking and kinda shitty

    but keep on being an ass

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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    she also hasn't been used since 1991

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Balefuego wrote: »
    she also hasn't been used since 1991
    This is true, but I still think she should have gotten at least a bit of dialogue or so. She's extremely obscure, though, yeah.

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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    Dudes, let us be excellent to one another, even in disagreement.

    I feel like I should break down why Boom Studios' Deathmatch book is working for me, while what little I read of Avengers Arena, didn't.

    But, I really think it just breaks down to using all-new characters, v.s. existing ones.

    It's sort of the Blue Beetle/Countdown to Infinite Crisis dilemma.

    "Hey, want to read a story about a character you love, by really talented creators?"

    "Well, sure, yeah!"

    "Alright, but the story's about that character being killed."

    ":("

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    To be fair, about half of Arena's cast is entirely new characters.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    It's like, when you read The Hunger Games or Battle Royale, imagine if characters like Foxface or Shinji were characters that had already existed in a lot of other stories that you were a fan of.

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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    Meh, Avengers Arena is likely my favorite book of Marvel NOW. I'm a big boy and can handle a little bit of violence even when it's completely gratuitous - which AA hasn't really been.

    I find it a bit silly to bicker over characters dieing in a book that is going to entail a whole lot of that. At this point I think Hopeless has proven that he's telling an interesting story. We're six issues in and there has been a ton of compelling things happening - new heroes born, secrets, betrayals, death, heroes "missing", love triangles, etc.

    He's done more in six issues than a lot of writers do in a year.

    Also, the art is great.

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    I've said this before, but the thing that has me hooked with AA is the tension of not knowing if my favourite characters (or new favourites like Bloodstone) are going to make it out alive, tension that is usually completely absent in superhero comics.
    Munch wrote: »
    Dudes, let us be excellent to one another, even in disagreement.

    I feel like I should break down why Boom Studios' Deathmatch book is working for me, while what little I read of Avengers Arena, didn't.

    But, I really think it just breaks down to using all-new characters, v.s. existing ones.

    It's sort of the Blue Beetle/Countdown to Infinite Crisis dilemma.

    "Hey, want to read a story about a character you love, by really talented creators?"

    "Well, sure, yeah!"

    "Alright, but the story's about that character being killed."

    ":("

    not quite. No characters are guaranteed to die any more than any of them are safe. That's the whole point.


    "Hey, want to read a story about a character you love, by really talented creators?"

    "Well, sure, yeah!"

    "Alright, but there's a chance that character might die. for real."

    " :? "

    You're supposed to be worried, but it's premature to start mourning the characters as dead. Well, aside from the ones that have already died.

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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    No characters are guaranteed to die any more than any of them are safe.
    hazmat vs x-23 begs to differ.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Considering that scene ends before we see its conclusion and it is a big tease for a future event we really have no idea how it turns out.

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    or it could have been referring to events in the most recent issue
    seeing as X-23 just went after Hazmat due to trigger scent

    also jkyle I am curious as to why you don't think the latest death is going to stick
    he had his confidence/power sapped, leaving him vulnerable, and then his head got chopped off

    you don't get much more dead than that.

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    there may be some big reason why the tease from the first issue wasn't referring to the similar event in the most recent, but I'm at work and can't reread AA #1 to confirm

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Nah, while a similar thing happened in issue 6 if you compare the two the attack from issue 1 is way different.

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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    There's nothing that says they are the last two standing in that first issue.

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    There's nothing that says they are the last two standing in that first issue.

    nor would there be, even if that were to be the final showdown it'd be silly to reveal that in the first issue

    and the outcome of the encounter is also not shown. implied, maybe.

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    AmiguAmigu Registered User regular
    Okay so I think that if you found
    Red Raven's death
    too gratuitous and violent I can sympathise but I'd say that that just means the book is not for you . It's quite clearly a homage to Battle Royal (and potentially hunger games, I haven't seen that) and that movie was allll about the gore.

    It's also making nods to things like survivor. I like the slightly post modern way it references those shows/films/books.

    I also think that the characterisation is really good. I love it when super hero comics give me that collectability feel. Like "ooooh that power is so cool!".

    The writing is great. All the characters are being written really sympathetically. Cammi is like a little bad ass space Batman or something, Bloodstone is just a good dude (can't wait to see what his power is...). Kid Briton is such a c*nt
    I was cheering when Anachronism lobbed his head off
    . The little flash backs to how they all got their powers are working perfectly for me.

    Some of the visuals are great I love the page where the kids are eating those magical fruit.

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    Finally I'm just a huge sucker for these "group of teenagers growing up and having crazy adventures" type stories. I'm not sure why but it's a genre that I really dig.

    So this is basically just like a gory, poppy soap opera that I'm 100% behind. I just wish a few of the Young Avengers had been recruited...

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    Amigu wrote: »
    Okay so I think that if you found
    Red Raven's death
    too gratuitous and violent I can sympathise but I'd say that that just means the book is not for you . It's quite clearly a homage to Battle Royal (and potentially hunger games, I haven't seen that) and that movie was allll about the gore.

    It's also making nods to things like survivor. I like the slightly post modern way it references those shows/films/books.

    I also think that the characterisation is really good. I love it when super hero comics give me that collectability feel. Like "ooooh that power is so cool!".

    The writing is great. All the characters are being written really sympathetically. Cammi is like a little bad ass space Batman or something, Bloodstone is just a good dude (can't wait to see what his power is...). Kid Briton is such a c*nt
    I was cheering when Anachronism lobbed his head off
    . The little flash backs to how they all got their powers are working perfectly for me.

    Some of the visuals are great I love the page where the kids are eating those magical fruit.

    tumblr_mjy4u8kKta1r1ortdo1_1280.png

    Finally I'm just a huge sucker for these "group of teenagers growing up and having crazy adventures" type stories. I'm not sure why but it's a genre that I really dig.

    So this is basically just like a gory, poppy soap opera that I'm 100% behind. I just wish a few of the Young Avengers had been recruited...

    Cullen's new, but he's not the first Bloodstone in the Marvel U - his dad, Ulysses Bloodstone is an immortal mercenary/monster hunter from the Hyborian Age, and his big sister Elsa was in Nextwave and is one of the teachers at Braddock Academy. She has superhuman strength/speed/toughness, accelerated healing, and was trained by their father in combat. Presumably Cullen inherited similar traits/received similar training.

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    LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Amigu wrote: »
    Okay so I think that if you found
    Red Raven's death
    too gratuitous and violent I can sympathise but I'd say that that just means the book is not for you . It's quite clearly a homage to Battle Royal (and potentially hunger games, I haven't seen that) and that movie was allll about the gore.

    If Avengers Arena was "all about the gore" I'd have stopped reading after the first issue.

    What surprises me about Avengers Arena is that despite my rather serious reservations about the book's concept (especially since it was sold or at least discussed as "teen superhero dies a gruesome death of the month club"), is that so far it's been all about the characters and how they deal with the stress of being trapped in this hostile and unfamiliar environment.

    Which is why the one death you mentioned stood out as being gratuitous, because unlike the others it didn't naturally flow out of character development. A character that has no lines and is given no personality dies a gruesome, pointless death just so the writer can get the fans to shut up about a potential plot hole.

    While that (still) bothers me, I don't think it means Avengers Arena is "not for me". I'm just hoping that if (or when, I guess) the author gets around to killing off more characters, the impact of those deaths comes from the reader having come to know those characters, rather than just going "eeeew, gross!"

    Lawndart on
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    TurambarTurambar Independent Registered User regular
    Hnnnnnng, so good

    NA #4
    This issue really managed to catch the voices of the characters

    I had completely forgotten that this was supposed to be a Galactus issue
    I was too engrossed in all the different ways of destroying a world
    Dyson Spheres and Ultimate Nullifiers and Lovecraftian Horrors and alternate Infinity Gems
    Then I was like Oh right, Galactus

    And Stephen Strange, you slippery bastard

    I don't get why they want to stop Galactus though
    They won't have time to stop Galactus and find the Infinity Gems
    Meaning they'd just have to destroy that Earth themselves

    Also, shouldn't Terrax know who Mr Fantastic and Black Bolt are?

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    UltimateInfernoUltimateInferno Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Turambar wrote: »
    Hnnnnnng, so good

    NA #4
    This issue really managed to catch the voices of the characters

    I had completely forgotten that this was supposed to be a Galactus issue
    I was too engrossed in all the different ways of destroying a world
    Dyson Spheres and Ultimate Nullifiers and Lovecraftian Horrors and alternate Infinity Gems
    Then I was like Oh right, Galactus

    And Stephen Strange, you slippery bastard

    I don't get why they want to stop Galactus though
    They won't have time to stop Galactus and find the Infinity Gems
    Meaning they'd just have to destroy that Earth themselves

    Also, shouldn't Terrax know who Mr Fantastic and Black Bolt are?
    The Galactus/Terrax is from the other universe that is colliding with 616 right then

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    I enjoy AA for the new characters created, not the older characters Hopeless is using.

    I agree with Munch. New characters vs. existing ones changes how I approach the series. I also enjoy Deathmatch from Boom.

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    TurambarTurambar Independent Registered User regular
    Turambar wrote: »
    Hnnnnnng, so good

    NA #4
    This issue really managed to catch the voices of the characters

    I had completely forgotten that this was supposed to be a Galactus issue
    I was too engrossed in all the different ways of destroying a world
    Dyson Spheres and Ultimate Nullifiers and Lovecraftian Horrors and alternate Infinity Gems
    Then I was like Oh right, Galactus

    And Stephen Strange, you slippery bastard

    I don't get why they want to stop Galactus though
    They won't have time to stop Galactus and find the Infinity Gems
    Meaning they'd just have to destroy that Earth themselves

    Also, shouldn't Terrax know who Mr Fantastic and Black Bolt are?
    The Galactus/Terrax is from the other universe that is colliding with 616 right then
    Hmm, I figured it was our Galactus saving the universe and getting a snack at the same time
    But yeah, the interaction with Terrax makes more sense that way

    No one tell alt-Galactus that there's a succulent Earth right above him

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Avengers Arena is one of my Top 5 Marvel Now books. It's a well-written character drama that actually has less violence than most Marvel and DC books.

    One fun thing to me is:
    From a character perspective, it doesn't really matter if this is real or a simulation. At this point, it is obvious that Arcade isn't doing this just to kill the kids or even to play out one of his usual deathtraps. He's mentally fucking them up in a way that will carry over when they return to the real world.

    As he said in the first issue, he's more interested in finding out which of the next generation is a hero and which is a murderer. I think the meat of the story is going to come from the reveal of why Arcade is doing this.

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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    so
    Hickman's staying on til 2015
    and here's an insane fun fact for you: he typically only writes two drafts for each issue.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I'd be bummed that he's only staying 3 years but with the double shipping that is essentially 6 years which is more than acceptable.

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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    i wanted him to write more than bendis, alas.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Me too. I'm allowed to be greedy.

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    if you all could pick what title(s) Hickman takes over when he's done Avengers, what would it be?

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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    Spider-Man

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I'm betting he takes a break from superhero books for a while after Avengers.

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    Antimatter wrote: »
    Spider-Man

    you're just saying that because it would mean taking it away from Slott, aren't you

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    wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Just got Hawkeye volume 1 in the mail. I'll dive into it soon.

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    a Hickman Eternals book would be neat

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    I also think he could do amazing things with a Dr. Strange series

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