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Twenty thousand posts under the SE(++), or, Emergent group dynamics in online communities

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    WimbleWimble Registered User regular
    Firematic. wrote:
    Well, in that case, I am going to live in a glass house.
    Try hiding in THERE jerks.
    Also please don't touch anything.

    make sure you don't let tossrock live there because...

    4SMZq.jpg
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    Fire TruckFire Truck I love my SELFRegistered User regular
    If you want to look at how people interact online, you should start with Plato.

    The parable is literally about how anonymity and consequence free actions cause otherwise normal people to behave evilly.

    It was used as an argument that mankind, at its most base form, is unkind, selfish, and cruel.

    I never quite get what people mean by "most base form" when they say stuff like this. How do you determine what is a most base form? Doesn't that presuppose a certain inherent character of a person that would be present in a vacuum? How would you prove that such a thing even exists, let alone try to show what it would supposedly be for all people everywhere?

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Fire Truck wrote:
    If you want to look at how people interact online, you should start with Plato.

    The parable is literally about how anonymity and consequence free actions cause otherwise normal people to behave evilly.

    It was used as an argument that mankind, at its most base form, is unkind, selfish, and cruel.

    I never quite get what people mean by "most base form" when they say stuff like this. How do you determine what is a most base form? Doesn't that presuppose a certain inherent character of a person that would be present in a vacuum? How would you prove that such a thing even exists, let alone try to show what it would supposedly be for all people everywhere?

    It means what you do, how would you act, if you could literally do whatever you wanted.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    Fire Truck wrote:
    If you want to look at how people interact online, you should start with Plato.

    The parable is literally about how anonymity and consequence free actions cause otherwise normal people to behave evilly.

    It was used as an argument that mankind, at its most base form, is unkind, selfish, and cruel.

    I never quite get what people mean by "most base form" when they say stuff like this. How do you determine what is a most base form? Doesn't that presuppose a certain inherent character of a person that would be present in a vacuum? How would you prove that such a thing even exists, let alone try to show what it would supposedly be for all people everywhere?

    It means what you do, how would you act, if you could literally do whatever you wanted.

    I'd just jerk off a lot more

    And own a jetpack

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    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    Wimble he is a rock, not a stone.

    I am sure it will be fine.

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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    Wimble wrote:
    Firematic. wrote:
    Well, in that case, I am going to live in a glass house.
    Try hiding in THERE jerks.
    Also please don't touch anything.

    make sure you don't let tossrock live there because...

    'cism

    sig.png
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    Firematic.Firematic. Registered User regular
    Blake T wrote:
    Wimble he is a rock, not a stone.

    I am sure it will be fine.

    As long as he keeps his hands to himself. And doesnt try to kill anyone/toss someone a drink.

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    godmodegodmode Southeast JapanRegistered User regular
    Buttlord wrote:
    TheGerbil wrote:
    godmode wrote:
    Weaver wrote:
    If I ever have a teenager of either sex, they are not getting a webcam or camera phone or digicam.

    I used to tutor some elementary school kids shortly before I left the military. In a group of 6 4th-graders, half had smartphones.

    I have a feeling that figure will rise significantly over the next few years.

    The worst part is the entitlement many feel over it. I don't have a smart phone simply because I don't want to pay for the data plans (they are expensive in Canada), but I see grade schoolers with them all the time. It blows my mind. People consider them a necessity nowadays!

    I bought one this year because I thought it was cool and I can afford the data plan finally, but I'd have no problems going back to a feature phone

    And there's no goddamn reason for a fourth grade kid to have a smartphone

    What the shit America

    I'm alright with kids having plain cell phones in certain cases - they were staying after school, after all, so using one to call their parents for a ride is alright. But they don't need mobile internet and apps and texting. What the hell do fourth graders even text, anyway?

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Tossrock wrote:
    Tossrock wrote:
    I don't think Socrates ever really gave a good explanation for why the PKs wouldn't use the ring for evil, especially since the point was that anyone who had the ring would eventually be tempted by it.

    Well, the explanation would be by definition; Socrates' definition of a philosopher king simply would not use the ring, because it is not their desire to do so. The story of the ring of Gyges shows that all unjust men submit to corruption, greed, etc. The middle few books of The Republic are a complex analogy of a state to a person, and argue that a well-ordered state and a well-ordered soul both exhibit the virtues, which a philosopher should pursue.

    We're kinda going in circle at this point. You are right, that is what Socrates says. But I think that's a cop out. "They wouldn't use it by definition" does not address the points of the counterargument, it simply dismisses them and moves on.

    Well, what are the points of the counter argument? That people are mean when they're anonymous? My (not socrates) counter argument to that would be that not everyone who's anonymous is unjust, and to paint all of humanity with a broad brush is a little premature.

    I agree, actually. I just think that there is a huge swath of people who, at a glance, appear to be unselfish and kind but are meanspirited in their heart. It's the old "nice guy" phallacy where the shy guy who doesn't say much is considered to be a "nice guy" and doesn't get the girl.

    Plenty of those "nice guys" are actually huge dicks online. Their fear of retribution and consequence is what keeps them from being assertive.

    So yeah, I don't think everyone is really evil and despicable. I just think there are way more jerks out there than you'd notice at a glance from how they act IRL.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    WimbleWimble Registered User regular
    Tossrock wrote:
    Wimble wrote:
    Firematic. wrote:
    Well, in that case, I am going to live in a glass house.
    Try hiding in THERE jerks.
    Also please don't touch anything.

    make sure you don't let tossrock live there because...

    'cism

    hey now my best friend is The Rock

    4SMZq.jpg
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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    Tossrock wrote:
    Tossrock wrote:
    I don't think Socrates ever really gave a good explanation for why the PKs wouldn't use the ring for evil, especially since the point was that anyone who had the ring would eventually be tempted by it.

    Well, the explanation would be by definition; Socrates' definition of a philosopher king simply would not use the ring, because it is not their desire to do so. The story of the ring of Gyges shows that all unjust men submit to corruption, greed, etc. The middle few books of The Republic are a complex analogy of a state to a person, and argue that a well-ordered state and a well-ordered soul both exhibit the virtues, which a philosopher should pursue.

    We're kinda going in circle at this point. You are right, that is what Socrates says. But I think that's a cop out. "They wouldn't use it by definition" does not address the points of the counterargument, it simply dismisses them and moves on.

    Well, what are the points of the counter argument? That people are mean when they're anonymous? My (not socrates) counter argument to that would be that not everyone who's anonymous is unjust, and to paint all of humanity with a broad brush is a little premature.

    I agree, actually. I just think that there is a huge swath of people who, at a glance, appear to be unselfish and kind but are meanspirited in their heart. It's the old "nice guy" phallacy where the shy guy who doesn't say much is considered to be a "nice guy" and doesn't get the girl.

    Plenty of those "nice guys" are actually huge dicks online. Their fear of retribution and consequence is what keeps them from being assertive.

    So yeah, I don't think everyone is really evil and despicable. I just think there are way more jerks out there than you'd notice at a glance from how they act IRL.

    Oh, no doubt.

    sig.png
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    Peter EbelPeter Ebel CopenhagenRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    I'm so fucking nice to people. Why, just yesterday I didn't kill a hobo.

    Peter Ebel on
    Fuck off and die.
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    MugginsMuggins Registered User regular
    As a person who has tried to manage an online community of idiots before

    yeah it's pretty hard

    BdVvFJu.jpg
    hey satan...: thinkgeek amazon My post |
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    facetiousfacetious a wit so dry it shits sandRegistered User regular
    Wimble wrote:
    Tossrock wrote:
    Wimble wrote:
    Firematic. wrote:
    Well, in that case, I am going to live in a glass house.
    Try hiding in THERE jerks.
    Also please don't touch anything.

    make sure you don't let tossrock live there because...

    'cism

    hey now my best friend is The Rock

    He even likes rock music!!

    "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
    Real strong, facetious.

    Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
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    Mr FuzzbuttMr Fuzzbutt Registered User regular
    Veretas wrote:
    As a person who has tried to manage an online community of idiots before

    yeah it's pretty hard

    winky

    broken image link
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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    facetious wrote:
    Wimble wrote:
    Tossrock wrote:
    Wimble wrote:
    Firematic. wrote:
    Well, in that case, I am going to live in a glass house.
    Try hiding in THERE jerks.
    Also please don't touch anything.

    make sure you don't let tossrock live there because...

    'cism

    hey now my best friend is The Rock

    He even likes rock music!!

    For co-opting rock culture you are sentenced to the bog of fresh hip hop beats

    FOREVER

    sig.png
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    FyndirFyndir Registered User regular
    Hello, yes, it is me.

    I am awful online, lovely in person. :^:

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Fyndir wrote:
    Hello, yes, it is me.

    I am awful online, lovely in person. :^:

    Then you are an awful person :whistle:

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    MugginsMuggins Registered User regular
    Veretas wrote:
    As a person who has tried to manage an online community of idiots before

    yeah it's pretty hard

    winky

    That was pretty much the main problem

    BdVvFJu.jpg
    hey satan...: thinkgeek amazon My post |
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    FyndirFyndir Registered User regular
    Fyndir wrote:
    Hello, yes, it is me.

    I am awful online, lovely in person. :^:

    Then you are an awful person :whistle:

    This surprises me not at all, I am consistently surprised by people liking me to any degree, anywhere.

    They really shouldn't.

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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    godmode wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    TheGerbil wrote:
    godmode wrote:
    Weaver wrote:
    If I ever have a teenager of either sex, they are not getting a webcam or camera phone or digicam.

    I used to tutor some elementary school kids shortly before I left the military. In a group of 6 4th-graders, half had smartphones.

    I have a feeling that figure will rise significantly over the next few years.

    The worst part is the entitlement many feel over it. I don't have a smart phone simply because I don't want to pay for the data plans (they are expensive in Canada), but I see grade schoolers with them all the time. It blows my mind. People consider them a necessity nowadays!

    I bought one this year because I thought it was cool and I can afford the data plan finally, but I'd have no problems going back to a feature phone

    And there's no goddamn reason for a fourth grade kid to have a smartphone

    What the shit America

    I'm alright with kids having plain cell phones in certain cases - they were staying after school, after all, so using one to call their parents for a ride is alright. But they don't need mobile internet and apps and texting. What the hell do fourth graders even text, anyway?

    Yeah get them a pay as you go StarTAC and be done with it

    This isn't a joke, get them a dang StarTAC and fuck it.

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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Fyndir wrote:
    Hello, yes, it is me.

    I am awful online, lovely in person. :^:

    Then you are an awful person :whistle:

    Doesn't calling someone an awful person qualify as being awful online (I mean, you'd never call someone an awful person to their face), and thus make you an awful person?

    Wait, shit

    Tossrock on
    sig.png
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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    Tossrock wrote:
    Tossrock wrote:
    I don't think Socrates ever really gave a good explanation for why the PKs wouldn't use the ring for evil, especially since the point was that anyone who had the ring would eventually be tempted by it.

    Well, the explanation would be by definition; Socrates' definition of a philosopher king simply would not use the ring, because it is not their desire to do so. The story of the ring of Gyges shows that all unjust men submit to corruption, greed, etc. The middle few books of The Republic are a complex analogy of a state to a person, and argue that a well-ordered state and a well-ordered soul both exhibit the virtues, which a philosopher should pursue.

    We're kinda going in circle at this point. You are right, that is what Socrates says. But I think that's a cop out. "They wouldn't use it by definition" does not address the points of the counterargument, it simply dismisses them and moves on.

    Well, what are the points of the counter argument? That people are mean when they're anonymous? My (not socrates) counter argument to that would be that not everyone who's anonymous is unjust, and to paint all of humanity with a broad brush is a little premature.

    I agree, actually. I just think that there is a huge swath of people who, at a glance, appear to be unselfish and kind but are meanspirited in their heart. It's the old "nice guy" phallacy where the shy guy who doesn't say much is considered to be a "nice guy" and doesn't get the girl.

    Plenty of those "nice guys" are actually huge dicks online. Their fear of retribution and consequence is what keeps them from being assertive.

    So yeah, I don't think everyone is really evil and despicable. I just think there are way more jerks out there than you'd notice at a glance from how they act IRL.

    Those "nice guys" also tend to have some really fucked up issues re: how they view women and relationships too

    They're assholes offline

    They just don't realize it

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    WeaverWeaver Who are you? What do you want?Registered User regular
    godmode wrote:
    Weaver wrote:
    If I ever have a teenager of either sex, they are not getting a webcam or camera phone or digicam.

    I used to tutor some elementary school kids shortly before I left the military. In a group of 6 4th-graders, half had smartphones.

    I have a feeling that figure will rise significantly over the next few years.
    Buttlord wrote:
    godmode wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    TheGerbil wrote:
    godmode wrote:
    Weaver wrote:
    If I ever have a teenager of either sex, they are not getting a webcam or camera phone or digicam.

    I used to tutor some elementary school kids shortly before I left the military. In a group of 6 4th-graders, half had smartphones.

    I have a feeling that figure will rise significantly over the next few years.

    The worst part is the entitlement many feel over it. I don't have a smart phone simply because I don't want to pay for the data plans (they are expensive in Canada), but I see grade schoolers with them all the time. It blows my mind. People consider them a necessity nowadays!

    I bought one this year because I thought it was cool and I can afford the data plan finally, but I'd have no problems going back to a feature phone

    And there's no goddamn reason for a fourth grade kid to have a smartphone

    What the shit America

    I'm alright with kids having plain cell phones in certain cases - they were staying after school, after all, so using one to call their parents for a ride is alright. But they don't need mobile internet and apps and texting. What the hell do fourth graders even text, anyway?

    Yeah get them a pay as you go StarTAC and be done with it

    This isn't a joke, get them a dang StarTAC and fuck it.

    Framling signal

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    WimbleWimble Registered User regular
    I wonder how the Australians perceived my real life self compared to here

    4SMZq.jpg
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Tossrock wrote:
    Fyndir wrote:
    Hello, yes, it is me.

    I am awful online, lovely in person. :^:

    Then you are an awful person :whistle:

    Doesn't calling someone an awful person qualify as being awful online (I mean, you'd never call someone an awful person to their face), and thus make you an awful person?

    Wait, shit

    By your logic, nobody should have called Hitler out on being an awful person. What have you done, Tossrock?

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    Wimble I won't lie, I perceive your real life self to be Basshunter

    sig.png
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    WeaverWeaver Who are you? What do you want?Registered User regular
    Tossrock wrote:
    Fyndir wrote:
    Hello, yes, it is me.

    I am awful online, lovely in person. :^:

    Then you are an awful person :whistle:

    Doesn't calling someone an awful person qualify as being awful online (I mean, you'd never call someone an awful person to their face), and thus make you an awful person?

    Wait, shit

    By your logic, nobody should have called Hitler out on being an awful person. What have you done, Tossrock?

    Blaming Hitler for attempted genocide means that you're the Jew

    wai-

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Um.

    "attempted" genocide?

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Volucrisus AedriusVolucrisus Aedrius Registered User regular
    No child anywhere on the face of the planet should have a fucking smartphone.

    You know why? Because no child on the face of the planet should learn all those shit-assed text spellings, abbreviations, ect ect while they are learning how to spell actual, real, substantive words.

    I hate to sound like a an old man yelling from a porch, here, but really, please, do not give your children the means to dismantle their education at such a tender age.

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    WimbleWimble Registered User regular
    Tossrock wrote:
    Fyndir wrote:
    Hello, yes, it is me.

    I am awful online, lovely in person. :^:

    Then you are an awful person :whistle:

    Doesn't calling someone an awful person qualify as being awful online (I mean, you'd never call someone an awful person to their face), and thus make you an awful person?

    Wait, shit

    I am applying this to everything. You are so beautiful, Toss!

    my god, it is working

    my abs are rippling, my crotch is bulging and my hair is flowing! I am now too handsome to be shackled to all you ugly losers

    oh no wait no I didn't mean augh my pristine frame

    4SMZq.jpg
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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Um.

    "attempted" genocide?

    There are still Jews, gypsies, Poles, homosexuals, etc, right?

    (it was a joke)

    Buttlord on
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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Artreus wrote:
    I never really got the whole acting way different online thing.

    I'm pretty sure I'm about the same on or offline

    Consequence free behavior.

    If you had the opportunity to steal a million dollars and you knew you never would be caught, would you take it?

    If you would, then fear of consequences affects your decision making on stealing.

    Yeah I can see that. People who play online games with me tend to see me a loveable bungler. I am impulsive and care free. In real life I weigh my actions carefully. I am still seen as goofy, but I am also considered smart and I am someone people come to with problems they need advice on.

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    WimbleWimble Registered User regular
    Tossrock wrote:
    Wimble I won't lie, I perceive your real life self to be Basshunter

    I could shatter this illusion for you right now, if you are curious!

    visually, that is. Not personality...ly

    4SMZq.jpg
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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    Wimble wrote:
    Tossrock wrote:
    Wimble I won't lie, I perceive your real life self to be Basshunter

    I could shatter this illusion for you right now, if you are curious!

    visually, that is. Not personality...ly
    I'm... I'm scared. Could you at least say "Vi sitter här i venten o spelar lite Dota" while you do it

    sig.png
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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Wimble wrote:
    I agree that it's easy for people to act selfish and cruel in a lot of circumstances. Too easy. Often depressingly easy. But I also strongly believe in the quote "we want to live by each others' happiness, not by each other's misery" and so I do not agree with the notion that mankind is unkind, selfish and cruel at its most base form

    I agree with this. I tend to live by what I call the "Ann Frank Doctrine" which is basically that I believe all people are good until they do something to prove me wrong.

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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    I live by the Jetpack Doctrine

    "Life would be so much more awesome with jetpacks"

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    Fire TruckFire Truck I love my SELFRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    I'm too tired to articulate my problem with some of the stuff being said about people's personalities here. But this is an interesting thread and I look forward to looking at it when fully awake.

    Fire Truck on
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    scarlet blvd.scarlet blvd. Bebop Cola Goooood!Registered User regular

    I agree, actually. I just think that there is a huge swath of people who, at a glance, appear to be unselfish and kind but are meanspirited in their heart. It's the old "nice guy" phallacy where the shy guy who doesn't say much is considered to be a "nice guy" and doesn't get the girl.

    Plenty of those "nice guys" are actually huge dicks online. Their fear of retribution and consequence is what keeps them from being assertive.

    So yeah, I don't think everyone is really evil and despicable. I just think there are way more jerks out there than you'd notice at a glance from how they act IRL.

    but
    I am the quiet shy guy
    Someone help, I don't wanna be a dick!

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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Fire Truck wrote:
    I'm too tired to articulate my problem with some of the stuff being said about people's personalities here. But this is an interesting thread and I look forward to looking at it when fully awake.

    FT is exactly the same online as he is offline. An asshole.
    No not really. Your a cool dude in both the Digital World and the real world

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