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Twenty thousand posts under the SE(++), or, Emergent group dynamics in online communities

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    CoohlaCoohla Registered User regular
    On an unrelated topic, Neil Strauss is doing an IAmA on reddit. Right now. I lied. It is related.
    http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ppb72/iam_a_seventime_new_york_times_bestselling_author/

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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    Coohla wrote:
    On an unrelated topic, Neil Strauss is doing an IAmA on reddit. Right now. I lied. It is related.
    http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ppb72/iam_a_seventime_new_york_times_bestselling_author/

    why are you such a sack of shit

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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    is a question

    I would ask

    that dude

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    CoohlaCoohla Registered User regular
    My heart stopped for a moment there.

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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Ubik wrote:
    i love the phrase "a loophole in female psychology"

    DENNIS

    thedennissystem.png

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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    Coohla wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    The Game is actually not about how awesome PUA is

    It's about how fucking horrendous it is and how it destroys lives

    I mean it starts off with Mystery having a complete breakdown for fuck's sake

    But Neil Strauss likes money and went back to doing it

    Oh I sure agree with that. It's just that at least some of the PUAs seem like they want to have a good personality, you know, actually be a better person. But most of their followers are assholes.

    Also, this forum goes forward way faster than I can respond to.

    They're assholes too, they just don't realize it

    They're substituting BEEP BOOP algorithims and techniques for real personality and it shows

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    thorgotthorgot there is special providence in the fall of a sparrowRegistered User regular
    JoeUser wrote:
    Ubik wrote:
    i love the phrase "a loophole in female psychology"

    DENNIS

    thedennissystem.png
    no man it's all about

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ1lc6KASWg

    campionthorgotsig.jpg
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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    I love the boat episode

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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    guys and more specifically @Rolo a girl just messaged me on OkCupid

    how soon do I neg her

    sig.png
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    thorgot wrote:
    JoeUser wrote:
    Ubik wrote:
    i love the phrase "a loophole in female psychology"

    DENNIS

    thedennissystem.png
    no man it's all about

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ1lc6KASWg

    First you'll need to get a bunker.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZnLu43kztU

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    MulysaSemproniusMulysaSempronius but also susie nyRegistered User regular
    More SE people should go to the D&D meetup things.
    Ny/Nj has quite a few

    If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
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    CoohlaCoohla Registered User regular
    Buttlord wrote:
    They're assholes too, they just don't realize it

    They're substituting BEEP BOOP algorithims and techniques for real personality and it shows

    Where is the line between those two? If you are a socially awkward guy, but a nice person (not "they don't get me" but "I wish I could just talk to them"), you have two choices. Stay that way and hope for the best. Or go out, overcome your fear step by step, succeed (hopefully). Once you do that, you might want to help others like you do the same. Make their lives better.

    Ultimately it comes down to the intentions. The good ones want people to like them for being likeable, and are then delighted that they belong. Assholes want to get laid and take the shortest possible route.

    It's like in university, we have basically two types of students here. Ones want to study to gain knowledge, know about something. They will do their jobs well and will hopefully get paid well for it. Others just want to get a degree, a paper and title that will possibly get them a better paying job. Short-term results might be the same. Guess who's the asshole. And, just like with PUAs, guess who's better at doing the job.

    By learning these BEEP BOOP algorithms they are mostly just learning stuff that is second nature for the not-socially-awkward people. They might even get better at it than most, good for them, they earned it. If they're still assholes by your standards, it could mean we live in a universe where socially awkward people are just doomed to be assholes. Possible.

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    MulysaSemproniusMulysaSempronius but also susie nyRegistered User regular
    Also, a 12th year PhD is like a 6th year senior

    If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Man I hate PUAs.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Coohla wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    They're assholes too, they just don't realize it

    They're substituting BEEP BOOP algorithims and techniques for real personality and it shows

    Where is the line between those two? If you are a socially awkward guy, but a nice person (not "they don't get me" but "I wish I could just talk to them"), you have two choices. Stay that way and hope for the best. Or go out, overcome your fear step by step, succeed (hopefully). Once you do that, you might want to help others like you do the same. Make their lives better.

    Ultimately it comes down to the intentions. The good ones want people to like them for being likeable, and are then delighted that they belong. Assholes want to get laid and take the shortest possible route.

    It's like in university, we have basically two types of students here. Ones want to study to gain knowledge, know about something. They will do their jobs well and will hopefully get paid well for it. Others just want to get a degree, a paper and title that will possibly get them a better paying job. Short-term results might be the same. Guess who's the asshole. And, just like with PUAs, guess who's better at doing the job.

    By learning these BEEP BOOP algorithms they are mostly just learning stuff that is second nature for the not-socially-awkward people. They might even get better at it than most, good for them, they earned it. If they're still assholes by your standards, it could mean we live in a universe where socially awkward people are just doomed to be assholes. Possible.

    Uh

    Normal people don't learn the "patterns" or whatever the fuck PUAs call the rote series of techniques that they use to fuck a girl

    The basic ideas, to make yourself stand out, to be interesting, to know how to open a conversation, etc, those are good! Little exercises designed to help people with those are good! Taking them to the extremes of PUA is bad. Because once you start doing the PUA shit where you're "applying kino" and "negging" and so on and so forth you're a piece of shit manipulating women into having sex with you solely so that they'll have sex with you.

    This is ignorning how many PUAs will tell you how to "overcome resistance" to having sex with you, which is just a fancy way to say "hey here is how to rape a girl"

    Also because you have idiots like Mystery who hear "stand out" and come up with peacocking

    Buttlord on
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    MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    so it's news to me that there was a /r/beatingwomen
    Many of you may be here in response to the banning of the jailbait subreddits, looking for the next target of your ire.
    The fact is, you can take down an outlet, but you cannot take down a source. The source is men. As long as you are a woman, you will be smaller than us, weaker than us, and used by us to fulfill our desires. Subreddits like SRS attempt to soothe the cognitive dissonance created by this indisputable truth.
    The idea that something was accomplished today is beyond idiotic. The fact remains that any time you walk outside, any time you are seen by men, they objectify you, they hunger for you, they dream of holding you down and violating you, and many of you will get the chance to let them act out those desires before your time is through.
    So let me say this clearly one more time: You. Are. Whores. Most of you just use your bodies for bartering as opposed to cash.
    Keep that thought in mind as you return to your regularly scheduled programming.

    yeah I think it's ok to go ahead and just shut this one down

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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    wow

    that's a post, alright

    sig.png
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
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    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    D:

    That is horrible and scary as hell for me as a father of a little girl.

    edit: talking about what MrMonroe quoted

    ObiFett on
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    UsagiUsagi Nah Registered User regular
    Welp reading that just made me feel horrible and angry

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    CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    Stay classy, reddit

    Do not have a cow, mortal.

    c9PXgFo.jpg
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    SeriouslySeriously Registered User regular
    I want to understand people

    but I don't know that I want to understand people like that

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Seriously wrote:
    I want to understand people

    but I don't know that I want to understand people like that

    I don't think there is too much to understand.

    They are villains.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    Seriously wrote:
    I want to understand people

    but I don't know that I want to understand people like that

    fRpfP.png

    sig.png
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    CoohlaCoohla Registered User regular
    Buttlord wrote:
    Uh

    Normal people don't learn the "patterns" or whatever the fuck PUAs call the rote series of techniques that they use to fuck a girl

    The basic ideas, to make yourself stand out, to be interesting, to know how to open a conversation, etc, those are good! Little exercises designed to help people with those are good! Taking them to the extremes of PUA is bad. Because once you start doing the PUA shit where you're "applying kino" and "negging" and so on and so forth you're a piece of shit manipulating women into having sex with you solely so that they'll have sex with you.

    This is ignorning how many PUAs will tell you how to "overcome resistance" to having sex with you, which is just a fancy way to say "hey here is how to rape a girl"

    Also because you have idiots like Mystery who hear "stand out" and come up with peacocking

    Okay yes I think that about covers it.

    But it raises questions I don't feel good discussing (I'd like to know if the following is a terrible opinion). Is it rape when she wants to have sex? You could say hypnosis makes her do that as well and that definitely is rape. We know it's wrong, because she would not have done so without it and will not do it again when she snaps out of it. Maybe those tricks you mention are like hypnosis. But somehow, I don't think the girl will ever 'snap out of it'. Just like when you're picking up a girl, old school way (no clubbing over the head, not that oldschool). You are always using patterns. You're just usually not sure which one will work, so you choose by some perceived probability or whatever. They just found better ones through trial and error. Once again, I think it's the intention that matters.

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    BedigunzBedigunz Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Have we talked about the ladder theory yet?

    But re: "Nice Guys finishing last", when I was in high school I was a class clown but no girl would give me the time of day. I was generally a nice kid (kind of a smartass but not mean to girls) and I just couldn't figure it out. A buddy of mine who was 2 years older than me (actually my friend's older brother) convinced me of the whole NGFL thing and that was the reason why I couldn't meet women. I kept believing that guy and, while I never became an asshole, I just lamented my life because I was just too nice to date.

    Then I got to college and it turns out that I just wasn't interesting and I let women walk all over me. I started being more involved in things other than student activities and getting more confidence gave me the ability to not just date, but be more social and successful. Now I'm a full adult and I have a (somewhat) interesting job, I perform stand-up, I cook, I'm a magician for kids in the hospital, and I can pretty much talk to people about anything.

    I had dinner with that guy a few months ago and it turns out he's kind of a sleazeball. He photographs models for a living in Mexico and tells me he's dating a few of them at a time. Whether he's lying or telling the truth, he's a douchebag for it and I kind of hate the fact that my younger self would hang out with him.

    tl:dr, Guys who consider themselves 'nice guys finishing last' are typically manipulative dickbags who tell themselves they are nice so when they get mad at the world, they aren't in the wrong because "they're oh so nice to people"

    Bedigunz on
    cdmAF00.png
    Coran Attack!
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Coohla wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    Uh

    Normal people don't learn the "patterns" or whatever the fuck PUAs call the rote series of techniques that they use to fuck a girl

    The basic ideas, to make yourself stand out, to be interesting, to know how to open a conversation, etc, those are good! Little exercises designed to help people with those are good! Taking them to the extremes of PUA is bad. Because once you start doing the PUA shit where you're "applying kino" and "negging" and so on and so forth you're a piece of shit manipulating women into having sex with you solely so that they'll have sex with you.

    This is ignorning how many PUAs will tell you how to "overcome resistance" to having sex with you, which is just a fancy way to say "hey here is how to rape a girl"

    Also because you have idiots like Mystery who hear "stand out" and come up with peacocking

    Okay yes I think that about covers it.

    But it raises questions I don't feel good discussing (I'd like to know if the following is a terrible opinion). Is it rape when she wants to have sex? You could say hypnosis makes her do that as well and that definitely is rape. We know it's wrong, because she would not have done so without it and will not do it again when she snaps out of it. Maybe those tricks you mention are like hypnosis. But somehow, I don't think the girl will ever 'snap out of it'. Just like when you're picking up a girl, old school way (no clubbing over the head, not that oldschool). You are always using patterns. You're just usually not sure which one will work, so you choose by some perceived probability or whatever. They just found better ones through trial and error. Once again, I think it's the intention that matters.

    This is largely an issue of what constitutes consent.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    This is a pretty interesting thread. I read both of the links in the OP, it was fun and kind of makes me think about a situation that is happening at my work atm with our department being re-organized and restructured under another department and how some of the guys I work with are reacting to it.

    In reference to terrible people on a subreddit
    I would kind of like to see a secret webcam of that dude typing out that message. What does he look like? What are his daily interactions? How did he get so fucked up? Is it possible to keep other people from getting so fucked up?

    And I just wanted to say, earlier in the thread you guys were talking about horror movies and stuff. I think the scariest scene in a movie I can think of off the top of my head is the scene from Zodiac, where the Zodiac killer finds that couple on their picnic and ties them up and stabs them in the back as they lie on the ground. That thought of being helpless as someone is stabbing your loved one because you thought he was only going to rob you two? ugh, fuck that, you better have a gun or in much better shape than me if your gonna try to rob my ass.

    Buddies on
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    ArtreusArtreus I'm a wizard And that looks fucked upRegistered User regular
    Maaan I used to believe the whole nice guys finished last thing. "Oh I'm so nice and would treat her way better than that guy." It is amazing I ever actually got girlfriends, not amazing that they did not last too long until college. Then I went through a lot of stuff and grew up, and started taking care of myself, becoming more self-confident and etc.

    I totally wouldn't date the me of several years ago either. I still have work to do though, diggin myself out of school debt, finding a job that is not food service.

    Anyway. Ladder theory people are the fuckin worst, also pick up artists.

    Also all of those horrible horrible horrible subreddits. Jesus fucking christ they make me mad. And there is nothing I can do about it. Those people exist. What the fuck is wrong with them, why do they act that way.

    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Coohla wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    Uh

    Normal people don't learn the "patterns" or whatever the fuck PUAs call the rote series of techniques that they use to fuck a girl

    The basic ideas, to make yourself stand out, to be interesting, to know how to open a conversation, etc, those are good! Little exercises designed to help people with those are good! Taking them to the extremes of PUA is bad. Because once you start doing the PUA shit where you're "applying kino" and "negging" and so on and so forth you're a piece of shit manipulating women into having sex with you solely so that they'll have sex with you.

    This is ignorning how many PUAs will tell you how to "overcome resistance" to having sex with you, which is just a fancy way to say "hey here is how to rape a girl"

    Also because you have idiots like Mystery who hear "stand out" and come up with peacocking

    Okay yes I think that about covers it.

    But it raises questions I don't feel good discussing (I'd like to know if the following is a terrible opinion). Is it rape when she wants to have sex? You could say hypnosis makes her do that as well and that definitely is rape. We know it's wrong, because she would not have done so without it and will not do it again when she snaps out of it. Maybe those tricks you mention are like hypnosis. But somehow, I don't think the girl will ever 'snap out of it'. Just like when you're picking up a girl, old school way (no clubbing over the head, not that oldschool). You are always using patterns. You're just usually not sure which one will work, so you choose by some perceived probability or whatever. They just found better ones through trial and error. Once again, I think it's the intention that matters.

    If she says no, and you continue to coerce her, it's rape

    Full stop

    "No means no" is an old line, but it's true. If she says "no" or any variation thereof? Fucking stop

    Also the intention is nothing more than to convince women to fuck them through emotional manipulation

    It is as scummy as you can get, please stop defending PUA horseshit

    Buttlord on
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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    MrMonroe wrote:
    so it's news to me that there was a /r/beatingwomen
    Many of you may be here in response to the banning of the jailbait subreddits, looking for the next target of your ire.
    The fact is, you can take down an outlet, but you cannot take down a source. The source is men. As long as you are a woman, you will be smaller than us, weaker than us, and used by us to fulfill our desires. Subreddits like SRS attempt to soothe the cognitive dissonance created by this indisputable truth.
    The idea that something was accomplished today is beyond idiotic. The fact remains that any time you walk outside, any time you are seen by men, they objectify you, they hunger for you, they dream of holding you down and violating you, and many of you will get the chance to let them act out those desires before your time is through.
    So let me say this clearly one more time: You. Are. Whores. Most of you just use your bodies for bartering as opposed to cash.
    Keep that thought in mind as you return to your regularly scheduled programming.

    yeah I think it's ok to go ahead and just shut this one down

    r/beatingtrannies and r/rapingwomen exist too

    Welcome to reddit

    Here is your complimentary loaded shotgun

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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    Buttlord wrote:
    If she says no, and you continue to coerce her, it's rape

    Full stop

    I dunno about that. What if you're married, and you ask your husband for sex, and he says no he's busy, and then you say 'pleeeaaase' and he says 'oh all right'

    Did you rape him? I feel like most people would say no.

    sig.png
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    unintentionalunintentional smelly Registered User regular
    i signed up for a reddit account so that i could take /r/atheism and /r/stupidshittymempics off the frontpage

    i think that's the only change i made and it made reddit pretty okay

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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    which is not to say PUAs aren't vile, despicable people

    but trying to say that convincing someone to have sex with you is the same as rape is a pretty untenable position, and kind of trivializes actual rape

    sig.png
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    ArtreusArtreus I'm a wizard And that looks fucked upRegistered User regular
    Tossrock wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    If she says no, and you continue to coerce her, it's rape

    Full stop

    I dunno about that. What if you're married, and you ask your husband for sex, and he says no he's busy, and then you say 'pleeeaaase' and he says 'oh all right'

    Did you rape him? I feel like most people would say no.

    Are you really fuckin doing this

    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
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    UsagiUsagi Nah Registered User regular
    Bedigunz wrote:
    I'm a magician for kids in the hospital

    This is so cool Bedi

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    TossrockTossrock too weird to live too rare to dieRegistered User regular
    Artreus wrote:
    Tossrock wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    If she says no, and you continue to coerce her, it's rape

    Full stop

    I dunno about that. What if you're married, and you ask your husband for sex, and he says no he's busy, and then you say 'pleeeaaase' and he says 'oh all right'

    Did you rape him? I feel like most people would say no.

    Are you really fuckin doing this

    Doing what? Disputing that convincing someone to have sex with you is not rape? Yes, I am. I don't feel like that's very crazy!

    sig.png
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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Tossrock wrote:
    Buttlord wrote:
    If she says no, and you continue to coerce her, it's rape

    Full stop

    I dunno about that. What if you're married, and you ask your husband for sex, and he says no he's busy, and then you say 'pleeeaaase' and he says 'oh all right'

    Did you rape him? I feel like most people would say no.

    I should clarify: there is a level of implied consent in a marriage/long-term relationship that isn't present in the PUA scenario

    More specifically

    Coercing a woman you've just met and hit on expressly for the purpose of having sex into having sex with you despite her objections is rape

    (Also that scenario isn't "She said no, so I backed off and then I tried it again and THIS TIME SHE DIDN'T FIGHT ME IT'S TOTALLY OKAY GUYS", which I've read more than once (or a hundred times) in seddit)

    Buttlord on
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    MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    wowza

    I feel pretty good about building up one of these "external enemy identification and vilification" emergent group dynamics surrounding Reddit now

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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    MrMonroe wrote:
    wowza

    I feel pretty good about building up one of these "external enemy identification and vilification" emergent group dynamics surrounding Reddit now

    The worst part is how many people are defending it

    Or getting mad when you call them a pedophile for getting mad about subreddits devoted to jerking off to kids being shut down

    Like hey if you don't want to be called a pedophile maybe you shouldn't fight for the rights of pedophiles to masturbate to children

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