Need to decide which internship to take IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS

CriticalHit

Ok so here's the facts:
- I am dual majored in Electrical Engineering and Computer Engineering (Specializing in Digital Electronics and Embedded Systems respectively)
- I am a Senior in college (more importantly, I am in year 4 of 5)
- I have received offers from two different companies for a summer internship (both as an EE)
- Company 1 is a defense contractor, an experience I am curious about
- Company 2 is a consumer based company with a heavy emphasis in employees being creative, something I would also like to experience
- Company 1 is in the Northeast
- Company 2 is in the mid-west (I go to a mid-west school)
- The offers are both competitive
- I am in a long term relationship (1.5 years now)
- My GF has 1 more year of undergrad, then she's off to vet school
- I have had 2 internships before, both as a CmpE
- Both were software focused (ie, programming)
- Both were heavily regulated by government and industry standards (personal records, etc)

And here's the issues:
1. I need to decide VERY SOON. Like, today or tomorrow morning
- I've already been given extensions by Company 2 (2 weeks)
- I just got my offer from Company 1 yesterday
2. My gf does not want me to go to the far away Northeast Company 2
3. Company 1 provides housing, BUT it's dorm housing and I will most likely be sharing a room
Company 2 provides no housing, but help find places
4. Company 1 will be more research/testing based work
Company 2 will be more design and building based (ie, make a thing that does this.)
5. Company 1 is more regulated and strict (naturally for a defense contractor) vs
Company 2 which is more focused on creativity and is more laid back

Basically, the two companies are SUPER different in the experiences they offer, and both offer their own benefits.

If I think of anything else, I'll make an edit, thanks for any replies!

EDIT: It seems the security clearance thing is pretty big so I'll try my best to find out as much as possible. However, from my understanding, I will most likely be getting some level of security clearance ( I don't know the difference in levels) and I have no out-standing debt (I do have student loans though) and should have pretty average credit?

Zombie Hero

Will Company 1 be giving you any security clearance?

CriticalHit

Company 1 may or may not give me security clearance based on which group I end up working for; however, I've spoken to some contacts who have interned with them before and it seems its more likely that I will get a security clearance.

bowen

Does 1 offer you top secret clearance as part of the internship? That opens up soooo many possibilities for you. Also, do you qualify for top secret? (Credit check, which I think they look for bankruptcy and outstanding debt, and a drug test)

Zombie Hero

And your gf coming in hanging out in whatever city is not an option? (It usually isnt, with funds and all, just figured i would ask)

bowen

Wow zombie's post didn't even show up for me, disregard.

bowen

CriticalHit wrote:

Company 1 may or may not give me security clearance based on which group I end up working for; however, I've spoken to some contacts who have interned with them before and it seems its more likely that I will get a security clearance.

I think that's something you should discuss before making a decision. Security clearance is a great thing.

Otherwise... without security clearance... still a hard call, looks like company 1 pays for room if not board for you on top of pay, which will give you a bit more legroom to do things like go see your g/f. Company 2 looks to be more ideally situated though. Company 1 could potentially be the better option if it gives you a security clearance because even non-dod places look for it and it usually pays a higher rate.

CriticalHit

You are correct, Zombie Hero; we will be hard pressed to visit each other much if I go to Company 1 because of funds.

Usagi

CriticalHit wrote:

You are correct, Zombie Hero; we will be hard pressed to visit each other much if I go to Company 1 because of funds.

But it's just a summer internship right? Three months of separation is totally doable for an in with a defense contractor, and completely worth it. Having worked as an engineer on all three sides (gvt, gvt contractor, and now commercial) you're going to have the greatest stability and best benefits working either for the government or one of their direct contractors.

CriticalHit

Usagi wrote:

CriticalHit wrote:

You are correct, Zombie Hero; we will be hard pressed to visit each other much if I go to Company 1 because of funds.

But it's just a summer internship right? Three months of separation is totally doable for an in with a defense contractor, and completely worth it. Having worked as an engineer on all three sides (gvt, gvt contractor, and now commercial) you're going to have the greatest stability and best benefits working either for the government or one of their direct contractors.

Sorry, I was in class and couldn't reply until now.
You are right, it's just an internship for 3 months so that's true about the separation being doable.

Now, do you guys think it would be better to have actual design and implementation/building experience (Company 2) or the research and testing (Company 1) ?

Figgy

Please, please, please don't let your relationship have even an ounce of weight in your decision. This is a rather short relationship and it's an even shorter time away from her. Three months is nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

Do not let this alter a decision that could very well have a huge impact on your future success. If this relationship is worth a damn, three months won't do it any harm. Trust me.

I spent five years apart from my girlfriend in my early twenties, and now we're married.

Usagi

CriticalHit wrote:

Now, do you guys think it would be better to have actual design and implementation/building experience (Company 2) or the research and testing (Company 1) ?

It's entirely possible that you'll have the ability to do all of these things at either company, what really matters is which of these internships is going to set you up for a post-graduation job?

CriticalHit

Usagi wrote:

It's entirely possible that you'll have the ability to do all of these things at either company, what really matters is which of these internships is going to set you up for a post-graduation job?

Good point. So, I looked at my resume and I already have research experience and testing experience. I do not have actual circuit building and design experience, which I think would really round out my resume. Also, the Company 1 job will be with the EM (Electromagnetic) group, a topic I am neither interested in nor particularly strong at.


Edit: accidentally put in the company name if you saw it please erase it from your minds ;D

admanb

Company 2 sounds way more fun, which I guess is the way my perspective leans. :P

Thanatos

Figgy wrote:

Please, please, please don't let your relationship have even an ounce of weight in your decision. This is a rather short relationship and it's an even shorter time away from her. Three months is nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

Do not let this alter a decision that could very well have a huge impact on your future success. If this relationship is worth a damn, three months won't do it any harm. Trust me.

I spent five years apart from my girlfriend in my early twenties, and now we're married.

Seriously, you need to completely ignore the girlfriend when it comes to this decision. While I recognize that at a year and a half it's a serious relationship, you need to realize that you're in college, and the odds of it lasting are low. In addition, even if it does last, the odds of you two needing to be apart for an extended period of time in the future are extremely high, especially given that you're going into two completely different fields, and that she is going to be continuing her education for awhile while you will most likely be moving on to a job. Even if you do continue your education, the odds of you ending up at the same grad school--or even grad schools near each other--are pretty long.

That being said, I've been told that once you get into defense contracting, it's hard to get out. @Irond Will knows a fair amount about this shit.

CriticalHit

Thanatos wrote:

That being said, I've been told that once you get into defense contracting, it's hard to get out.

Wait. What does this mean? That is the third time I've heard that today, and no one has been able to expand on it.

Thanatos

CriticalHit wrote:

Thanatos wrote:

That being said, I've been told that once you get into defense contracting, it's hard to get out.

Wait. What does this mean? That is the third time I've heard that today, and no one has been able to expand on it.

From what I understand, you start working in defense contracting, you get your security clearance, and then, when you want to get out of it, you start looking for jobs in other industries. But those jobs in those other industries that pay anywhere close to what you were getting paid as a defense contractor usually want experience relevant to those industries. Also, you have a security clearance, which brings a premium from defense contractors, because getting someone a security clearance is very expensive, which makes other jobs pay less by comparison.

I am not an expert on the subject, though.

Something else to consider is the volatility in the defense contracting market right now, given that the government is talking about some cuts in that area. However, any industry is going to have a level of unpredictability, and nobody's crystal ball is perfect.

Usagi

CriticalHit wrote:

Thanatos wrote:

That being said, I've been told that once you get into defense contracting, it's hard to get out.

Wait. What does this mean? That is the third time I've heard that today, and no one has been able to expand on it.

You become specialized in one particular type of business, and with that become used to the perks that are associated with it. It can make it difficult to switch from working for the government to working for commercial industry, but as an engineer it's less of a problem because there is high demand for those with experience.

However, I will caveat this with the fact that it's almost impossible to go the other way, from commercial industry into defense contracting--because the government expects an mid-career engineer to have those specialized skills associated with working for the gvt, if you don't have them you aren't getting hired.

Short answer: it's easier to go from gvt to commercial than it is to go from commercial to gvt.

schuss

I'd go with the Northeast opportunity, just for diversity of experience both geographically and on your work resume. If you two can't handle 3 months apart, I'm sorry, but it wasn't meant to be.

That said, make sure you pick the one you think you fit best with, as Defense workers are a bit different from creatives in a lot of ways.

LadyM

admanb wrote:

Company 2 sounds way more fun, which I guess is the way my perspective leans. :P

This was my reaction too. I guess it depends on what you think you'd enjoy more and also if you have an idea which kind of job you'd like to get after you'd graduate.

puffycow

I am just going to reiterate a point made a few posts above. I am in defense contracting and it is definitely hard to get out.

One, the salary. I graduated 5 years ago with a Software Dev degree. This was my first job and I am still here. I won't say I am unhappy but being young I like to keep my options open. The number 1 thing I notice is how many other Software positions won't come close to my starting salary, let alone my current one... unless...

Two, skills. You have to be careful in the defense industry. You get put on a project and you can be the super-awesome-person-everyone-goes-to-because-you-know-everything kinda guy there. But when you interview at other places you realize how focused your knowledge is.

Now don't take this the wrong way. I am very happy with my job, salary and work/life balance. It's just something to consider for yourself. If you really have specific questions about the industry I can try to be more focused... just PM me.

Drows

Defense contractor here. It sounds weird they'd get you a clearance for a couple-of-months summer gig, as obtaining one can sometimes take that long. My money would say you're either not getting one, or if you are, this internship is a tryout for a long term position.

mightyjongyo

Hope this isn't too late...I interned at a company that worked with government stuff. I got a basic security clearance, but not access to classified.

My current job (computer engineer in aerospace industry) also sometimes deals with government work and the issue for me is stagnation. A lot of the technology they use, on actual hardware, anyways, is out of date. Still using fortran for a lot of things. So in a lot of cases the isn't much opportunity to learn new things. It may be different for an intern or even the industry, but that is my experience. Also, as puffycow said, salary is hard to beat. I get paid way more than someone working in commercial.

In the end though this is just an internship, and if there's a way into defense contracting then it can't hurt to have that under your belt.

Powerpuppies

You can get out of defense contracting as a software engineer, but it means you have to be spending some personal time keeping up with new technologies and the state of the software industry. Defense can tend to stultify, and so when you leave defense after 10 years or something you may find that you have none of the skills modern companies expect. You can learn them at that point, of course, but it's easier if you keep up to date as you go.

Would disagree with Drows... they would probably have you apply for the clearance now, I would think. That way a couple of months go by, you get the clearance, and then you start the job.

I say go with the defense contractor if there's a clearance opportunity, pass otherwise. You'll learn better skills at the other place and the defense experience won't be worth anything without a clearance.

Skypoint

It sounds to me like company 2 will offer you opportunities (building things, achieving results through creativity) that will allow you to point at tangible, completed results and thus look better on your resume and future interviews than company 1.

I've interviewed plenty of fresh graduates, many of who have internship experience running tests, checks, etc in various industries.... but the ones who actually worked on things, built things, and talked about the results of what they built and how their former employees were going to continue work on those projects always ended up looking stronger.

Thor1590

Hey, I'm not sure why he hasn't posted again, but I know the guy personally and he landed on option 2. Just heads up.

admanb

Thor1590 wrote:

Hey, I'm not sure why he hasn't posted again, but I know the guy personally and he landed on option 2. Just heads up.

This makes me happy. I hope it works out for him!