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Diabetic Cats
Kiashien
Medford, MARegistered User regular
Medford, MARegistered User regular
Hi all.
I've never ventured from the PAX Forums before, but given how awesome they all are, I figured I'd branch.
My girlfriend and I recently moved in together. Her cat is old- 16.
I noticed he was peeing alot, commented, and soon enough he had to go to the vet anyway.
He now has diabetes, and we're starting a regimen. He started out rough on tuesday (his first shot) due to throwing up and what not due to antibiotics and a severe diet change.
He's been taken off the antibiotics, but he's still adjusting. Saturday I will get a glucose meter from the vet, and we'll start curves and what not.
He's a sweet cat, and today, after a rough start, he's starting to get much more playful, and overall seems just better.
But, as we're just starting, and I think I have the basics in hand, help is appreciated. He's on Lantus, FYI, if that helps anyone
I've never ventured from the PAX Forums before, but given how awesome they all are, I figured I'd branch.
My girlfriend and I recently moved in together. Her cat is old- 16.
I noticed he was peeing alot, commented, and soon enough he had to go to the vet anyway.
He now has diabetes, and we're starting a regimen. He started out rough on tuesday (his first shot) due to throwing up and what not due to antibiotics and a severe diet change.
He's been taken off the antibiotics, but he's still adjusting. Saturday I will get a glucose meter from the vet, and we'll start curves and what not.
He's a sweet cat, and today, after a rough start, he's starting to get much more playful, and overall seems just better.
But, as we're just starting, and I think I have the basics in hand, help is appreciated. He's on Lantus, FYI, if that helps anyone
The pirate hat riding bobcat compels you...
Relevant info: #PAX East: 3 Coin Lunch organizer. 2012 Trading card available. Pokecrawl Assistant 2012. Pokecrawl attendee 2011. Cult of the Leaf attendee 2012.
Relevant info: #PAX East: 3 Coin Lunch organizer. 2012 Trading card available. Pokecrawl Assistant 2012. Pokecrawl attendee 2011. Cult of the Leaf attendee 2012.
Kiashien on
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How much flex is safe in insulin levels? For instance, if we're 10 minutes late with feeding / insulin, is that the end of the world? Or is it just so strict until he's regulated? That's just a basic sort of thing... but I don't know it.
Heck, I had to call her to make sure it was safe to feed him if he threw up- or even that it was recommended.
I guess I should note that he's not overweight- it appears to just be genetics / old age.
The strict 12-hour timing is hard, but we're making it work for him
We're not considering putting him to sleep FYI, I'm just wondering if there's any advice beyond the "No carb high protein food / treats" and "Monitor his glucose as best you can" that might be helpful.
I guess it comes down to I'm reading as much as I can, but I literally have no idea what I don't know, and was hoping for some sort of advice along that kind of lines. Things I should know but probably don't realize since I just don't know that I don't know. If that makes sense
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But no, you don't have to be EXACT on the minute with the insulin injection. My old roommate and I were really good about getting the cats their injections at the right time, but there were a few times where we were 45 minutes over or under and nothing untoward happened. I wouldn't stretch it farther than that, but again these are questions for your vet. You're dealing with an animal's life here.
Okay, I get it. I won't get any ideas on even what to ask here.
FYI, as I noted, I'm asking my vet questions literally daily at this point. As I said, this is mostly about What I don't even know I should know.
I am in touch with my kitty's vet daily, at this point, but I live in a high-traffic metropolitan area and my vet's time is limited- as would be any other vet's, so she isn't likely to realize I didn't ask a question. She does answer questions, and is relieved that I ask them, but again, I don't even know what to ask yet.
He has been on insulin less than 4 days.
I get it, people don't really want to put their necks out, and I'll go to a diabetic cat forum instead. Thank you to those who gave some information, but believe me, I'm not ignoring my vet- and I'm asking her everything I can think of.
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No one accused you of ignoring your vet. Your vet would give you all the information you needed when they sent you home with the medicine and new diet. If nothing is out of the ordinary and your cat is fine, there shouldn't be any questions you need to ask. The vet didn't forget to tell you anything on how to care for a diabetic cat. That's their job. Don't worry about taking up their time. It's what you're paying them for. They love animals just as much as you do and are probably ecstatic that you're concerned about your cat.
I mean, if it's anything like what we were doing (insulin twice a day, special food) it's not really a complicated procedure and you shouldn't have much to worry about. Being diabetic doesn't turn the cat's life upside down. It just adds a little complication to it.
Your vet has told you what you should know. Just take it one day at a time, call your vet with questions as they occur, and give that cat lots of love.
It's not that people "don't want to put their necks out", it's that we're not medical professionals and we don't know the specifics of your cat's issues. If you have specific questions (you said you had "tons" but then asked one), please, ask away. But anything regarding specific medical advice isn't our domain.
Oh, and the rule in H/A is that if you ask questions about pets, you have to post pictures of them.
I guess I understand what you're saying.
A better way to put it, is there questions I should be asking my vet that I haven't?
I guess I should give some background. I'm a Software Developer, and I am VERY used to having to ask people what should I even be researching- it isn't that I'm unwilling, or that I won't ask the questions or do the research- it's that I don't really know WHAT to research, other than the general "diabetic cat." It's a whole new realm, and I don't know what the dangerous topics that I should be brooching are.
He's literally 100% healthy other than some bad teeth and the surprise diabetes. It's actually somewhat shocking that he has absolutely no other issues. I'm not really asking for medical advice, just general advice on how to handle it. Heck, just how to handle living with a diabetic cat.
The whole situation is very stressful, and anything, even how to guess if a very mellow cat under normal circumstances is having a hypoglycemic episode (the main worry, really)
I am doing absolutely everything my vet says. He's on a very small amount of insulin, and his diet shifted radically (From no grain dry to a perscription wet, that will likely transition to no carbs EVO) all at once.
I'll be getting a glucometer from the vet saturday, and being taught how to use it, so that episodes like having him throw up most of his meal last night and staying up until 4 am watching him won't have to be so brutal (Plus I now know I can feed him if he does that again)
It did turn the cat's life upside down- he had food constantly before (again, not overweight) and now doesn't, and it turned my life, and my girlfriend's rather drastically upside down. We'll do it, because we love him, but it's still not as simple as "It won't turn your cat's life upside down." He's 16- shifting forcefully from dry food on tap to wet food strictly controlled isn't simple for his age. It also means that both of us can't go out on a given day at the same time. Pretty much ever, without a kitty-sitter trained in needles and whatnot.
Anyway, thank you again- despite my defensive tone, I do appreciate any advice I can get at this point. I figured at least some PA forum members had to have a diabetic cat.
I just... Am trying to get as much info as I can as fast as I can.
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My roommate taught me how to give the injection in 30 seconds. It's not something any kitty-sitter should have a problem with, assuming it's the same. Tiny needle? Just under the skin at the scruff of the neck?
But yes, scruff of the neck, he doesn't even notice.
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There's also been a couple times where he was accidentally given too much (in one case a triple dose, when someone else had to do the injection and misunderstood the directions). He had what was I think a seizure at one point from too much insulin (he lost weight, but we didn't drop the dosage in time), which was really scary. Through all of this, he's remained pretty much the same, and we've had no major problems otherwise. He seems content and happy.
I should also mention, if you don't know this, that cats sometimes sort of cure themselves of diabetes. They're still diabetic, but after a while they need less insulin til eventually they need none. This happened to ours, in large part because he also got cancer, went through chemo, and lost half his bodyweight (he was overweight, and now is a normal weight).
And yeah, still plugging along, though he's probably got less than six months to live. He's already at the high end of "average" life expectancy post-chemo.
Point being, it can be scary, but my experience has been it is not as scary as it can be with people, the cats quickly get used to the shots, and you may eventually not even need to give them any longer. So don't fret too much.
if anything it could be the sudden diet shift that is screwing him up.
Of course if you give her lots of treats or snacks or people-food: that sort of thing will need to mostly stop. I mean, I think you give them a treat or two every now and then: but not like crazy (ask your vet on that one).
He was taken off the dry food as soon as he was diagnosed.
We didn't give him many treats or people food, but he did occasionally get a little piece of a chip (He is obsessed with chips). That's obviously stopped completely.
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His new temporary food (Newman's Own Organic Beef) seems to be staying down. We want to get him on EVO long term, I think.
Thank you all for what advice you could give. He's been much more energetic the past few days, and it's helped to make up for the sheer stress.
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I don't think it makes you sound like a terrible person. It sounds like life happened. And it doesn't sound like you didn't care.
The extra insulin is scary though. A cat seems to be able to weather hyperglycemia decently well if it's for short periods, but hypo from too much insulin seems to be really bad, based on what I've read. Your experiences seem to mirror that.
I'm probably more scared of him not needing shots at the moment- if we don't notice it in time, it sounds like he could drop into hypoglycemia rapidly, and with us both at work for most of his morning shot cycle.. Well, not much to do about it I suppose.
I can say that he's had a dramatic shift in the past week- he wants to play at least once a day, even if it's just batting at our hands, which I guess is something he hasn't wanted for more than a few minutes a week in many years. He's even showing interest in old toys, and has taken up grooming with a vengence- he wasn't bad about it before, he just wasn't super ultra meticulous. Now he can't allow himself to be dirty at all. He must clean. CLEAN ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE FURRY.
So, I guess we're doing okay so far. Glucometer pickup is saturday, and our upstairs neighbor / landlord is willing to give him shots during PAX / Easter (YAY!) so that's one major weight off worries, and is willing to do it in a paniced emergency if neither of us can get home in time. I realize my reactions have been drastic, but... Hey. Got to panic a little sometimes.
And at least a pretty green eyed cat posed with a woot monkey is a reasonable reason to panic
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to be clearer, the needle is roughly 2 1/2 inches long. The vet needle was maybe 1/4 of an inch long. Same gauge (thickness) in both, but very much longer in the from-the-pharmacy version.
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a 2.5 in needle while servicable is not going to be ideal, thougha cat scruff should be able to handle it.
honestly a little hyperglycemia is better then hypoglcyemia, if your sugar gets too low, you can get seizures
It sounds like you're doing all the right things. The glucose meter is the best tool you can get. We used to prick Guinness ear after warming it with a sock full of rice heated in the microwave for about 30 seconds. She never minded and never complained and it was the only time during the day that she got one single treat.
If you have the patience for it, I recommend charting his glucose levels. If his numbers aren't under control you're going to notice huge spikes. He might drop down into the 70's and then peak up to 200. What you're looking for is a much more gradual change. He should dip down right before a feeding and then top off right in between feedings.
My wife and I would both leave for work around 6:30am, so we'd get up in the morning around 5, check her levels and feed her so we could then just keep an eye on her for the next hour before we left.
If you're diligent with keeping him monitored and fed, there isn't any reason he shouldn't live out what he would have without the diabetes.
Sorry to hear about your cat. I hope ours can make it to 20 too!
We're planning to do a glucose curve in about two weeks, since that'll be the first time with the meter we'll be able to be home for 12 hours. He's currently definitely still unregulated- we know he's still high. It'll just take some time to get the insulin right, it seems. Still, he's definitely doing better than he was.
I'm leery of giving him any treats until he's regulated, but he seems to put up with the glucose testing well enough. I might try the rice thing to try and make it easier until he's more used to it, though. I did pick up some freeze-dried beef treats though, for when it's appropriate.
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Thanks, we still miss the old girl.
From what we were told, a little high is always better than low. Of course a constant high can lead to renal problems, but it is much better than having them bottom out on you. Keep some honey or pancake syrup around just in case. I think we only had to break out once very early in her treatment.
We've got Karo syrup on hand. It's safest since its something we never use for anything else, so it'll always be on hand
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Thanks again all. I just wanted to give an update on Dark, and leave a few nuggets of wisdom I've managed to learn.
Dark is doing well, and slowly stabilizing. His insulin will likely be increased next week some, but it looks like he won't be on all that much.
Lessons learned:
1) If your vet offers to order you a glucose meter, don't.
Human meters just need to be multiplied by 1.3 (And your vet will tell you this if you push, so don't take my word for it- push back on your vet, and see if they say the same thing).
IE: a 100 on a human meter is a 130 on a cat meter. That's literally all the "cat calibrated" meter is.
Reasons:
Your cat just got a whole lot more expensive- food alone is going to cost you more than anything else, long term.
A Cat calibrated meter costs $219 or so. A Human one costs $20.
The strips for the Cat calibrated meter cost $1 per test. For awhile you'll be doing at least one, if not two, tests a day.
Weekly at first, and thereafter, any diet change at all, or any insulin adjustment at all, will mean you need to do a curve, which is about 8 tests.
The strips for a human meter costs 10 cents to 50 cents each, depending on how pimp your meter is.
2) High sugar, while not ideal, is not going to hurt your cat in any major way short-term. Crazy numbers are expected sometimes, and while you should report them to your vet, and see what they say, it's not super panic time.
3) Don't be surprised if your vet tells you "Give him more food." In our case, the Vet actually DOUBLED his food from what he was initially supposed to eat. It was surprising, but correct.
4) Your cat will act differently practically instantly if he was at high sugar for any amount of time. Maybe he'll want to play if he hasn't in years, maybe he'll just decide that he must be clean beyond sanity. Again, all normal- report it all to the vet, but don't freak out.
5) Do your own glucose curve. Your vet will be worried about it at first, so when you get your meter take good readings for a week, at the times she asked you to, and she'll suddenly be perfectly fine with it. Your vet is really worried that you won't be okay with stabbing your cat in the ear, and will freak out and not do it. Once you prove that you're okay with it, your vet is very likely to be okay with it. This will give you more accurate readings, since kitties glucose spikes in stress situations anyway, so at home won't induce false hyperglycemia.
6) If your cat was on dry food, his or her poop will probably smell like death warmed over when you switch to something like EVO. Especially if they're a cat that doesn't bury it. As unfortunate as it is... It's apparently normal. And very, very stinky.
7) Ask about Ketones if you aren't familiar with them. Your vet can explain a lot better than I can, but they're important. You can get special litter strips for testing their urine if it's a risk for your cat- again, it's just something you should ask your vet if you don't already know about it.
8) Yes, there are snacks that are okay to feed a diabetic cat. Look for things like freeze-dried meat. As usual, don't go overboard- a snack a day is probably fine, especially if you use it as a reward for a blood glucose test. Dark rapidly started coming to me for tests, since he knew he got a super awesome snack if he was good about the whole thing.
9) Relax. It's not so bad. The world isn't over, and your cat will get better- he or she will still need shots, but it's not that bad once you get past the first few weeks of panic. Also, felinediabetes.com/ is a good resource for getting started. Yes, it's the first hit on google, and you probably already found it, but here it is if you need it.
10) Really. Relax. As noted in 2, high blood sugar doesn't outright kill a cat, like it does a person. Super-low does. So just listen to your vet, ask every question you can think of, and, oh, watch this youtube video: Low Blood sugar- Zoey That is what you want to watch out for- that specific kind of behavior. That means low blood sugar, and emergency room time. You are very unlikely to see this in the first few weeks, since most vets start out with low insulin, and very slowly increase it.
There's probably other things, and if I think of them, I'll add them for the next person who ends up with a diabetic cat.
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