I think I've got it down now. I appreciate all your help. This list means I need to buy more stuff, but that's what happens when you buy things all willy-nilly with no goal to get to.
HQ
Captain - bike, relic blade, storm shield, melta bombs
Terminator Assault Squad - 2 lightning claws, three storm shields/thunder hammers, land raider
Dreadnought - assault cannon
Troops
Bike Squad - 5 additional bikes, 2 melta-guns, attack bike w/ multi-melta, sgt w/ power fist, melta bombs
Bike Squad - 5 additional bikes, 2 melta-guns, attack bike w/ multi-melta, sgt w/ power fist, melta bombs
Scout Squad - 4 bolt pistol and combat blade, sgt w/ power fist, melta bombs
Fast Attack
Land Speeder Storm - w/ heavy flamer
Attack Bike Squad - 2 attack bikes w/ multi-meltas
Attack Bike Squad - 1 attack bike w/ multi-melta
Heavy Support
Predator - autocannon w/ heavy bolter sponsons
Predator - autocannon w/ heavy bolter sponsons
What do you all think? This is exactly 2000 points.
I typically find Melta Bombs to be kind of an ineffective point-sink against players who have any idea what they're doing - it's pretty hard to hit a moving vehicle in close combat. Stripping the melta bombs out gives you an additional twenty-five points, which you could then spend on a multi-melta for the LR, Dozer Blades for the Preds, and a multi-melta for the Storm. That would give you 11 melta shots, 7 of them multi-meltas on Relentless platforms. Your Preds, Terms, and bolter bikes should be able to mow through infantry without too much trouble as long as you play them carefully.
Dozer blades wouldn't be super-awesome on the Preds, though - you're going to want them sitting still in some variety of cover, since they're going to be fire magnets for the opponent's anti-tank weapons - so maybe drop those and upgrade the Dreadnought's built-in stormbolter to a Heavy Flamer.
Does the Storm count as relentless?
EDIT: AndI'm sure I could find something else to spend the melta bomb points on. I just thought they might be for that off-chance.
You know, this codex doesn't seem to have as many wargear options for characters and the older codexes did.
5 man. Current BT codex. Only real redeemable quality of that army right now (besides the occasional shut out you can dish out with some good playing).
BT so OP right now, man
Yeah, BT are stupid right now. Machine Spirit on Vindicators makes them better than BA Vindicators, and BA Vindicators are OP.
That also makes it quite expensive in the points area. Don't get me wrong, I still run it (and it is OP if it can start shooting and not get popped right away), but it is a pretty sizable point suck. I mean...+30 points to a vindicator is only 20 points away from running another one of BT's absurdly OP Tornado Speeder. It's really cool, but it's still a vindicator, and still a huge target. That PotMS does not stop it from exploding super fast.
If we're going to talk about BT being OP, I vote for their Ven Dreads. For 143 points (BTW, a PotMS Vindicator is 158 points) you get an assault cannon dread, with venerable, preferred enemy on the CCW, and tank hunter. It's a fucking joke to see that thing troll face his way through a mechanized army. Drop pod in and just start wrecking shit.
In fact, if I ever make a second dread for my BT army, I am actually going to model an optional "Troll Face" head for him. Last game I played (2 months ago, been focusing on painting and Orks), my Ven dread killed 3 Rhino's, a land raider, and a rifleman dread...all before he took any real damage. I run him with Extra Armor and Smoke, so I can venerable the damaging hits, and hopefully shrug them off with extra armor. It's 5 points that usually pays for itself.
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
The Wrist Mounting sounds fun, but... freaking 30% less range on my Melta Pistol? HELL no. It's already got a ridiculously bad reach. What's the special ammo do?
Dude the thing has no range to begin with, now you can carry a normal meltagun and have a WRIST MOUNTED MELTA PISTOL. Noob.
The special ammo gives it the same effect as a shotgun so it can do more damage based on how many degrees of success you hit with. It's pretty fucking broken.
But I'm a Rogue Trader! I can't even wield a Melta Gun until Rank 4! That's the soonest Basic Weapon Training (Univ.) becomes available. It's pretty dumb. Is the shotgun ammo in the basic RT book as well as the wrist mount?
The Wrist Mounting sounds fun, but... freaking 30% less range on my Melta Pistol? HELL no. It's already got a ridiculously bad reach. What's the special ammo do?
Dude the thing has no range to begin with, now you can carry a normal meltagun and have a WRIST MOUNTED MELTA PISTOL. Noob.
The special ammo gives it the same effect as a shotgun so it can do more damage based on how many degrees of success you hit with. It's pretty fucking broken.
But I'm a Rogue Trader! I can't even wield a Melta Gun until Rank 4! That's the soonest Basic Weapon Training (Univ.) becomes available. It's pretty dumb. Is the shotgun ammo in the basic RT book as well as the wrist mount?
You can wield anything without training, you just suffer penalties.
I think they're both in the expansion, but not sure.
Dont forget about the Storms anti-deep striking wargear. A guy at my FLGS runs one and depending on the army hes facing wont, he wont scout it forward but keep with his other stuff to deter deep strikers/be a counter assault road bump. Though with your list thats not so much of a threat, other than the predators not much is going to be sitting backfield.
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
The Wrist Mounting sounds fun, but... freaking 30% less range on my Melta Pistol? HELL no. It's already got a ridiculously bad reach. What's the special ammo do?
Dude the thing has no range to begin with, now you can carry a normal meltagun and have a WRIST MOUNTED MELTA PISTOL. Noob.
The special ammo gives it the same effect as a shotgun so it can do more damage based on how many degrees of success you hit with. It's pretty fucking broken.
But I'm a Rogue Trader! I can't even wield a Melta Gun until Rank 4! That's the soonest Basic Weapon Training (Univ.) becomes available. It's pretty dumb. Is the shotgun ammo in the basic RT book as well as the wrist mount?
You can wield anything without training, you just suffer penalties.
I think they're both in the expansion, but not sure.
The Mount's in the core book. SURE I can use a weapon untrained, but that's a gigantic -20% penalty.
5 man. Current BT codex. Only real redeemable quality of that army right now (besides the occasional shut out you can dish out with some good playing).
BT so OP right now, man
Yeah, BT are stupid right now. Machine Spirit on Vindicators makes them better than BA Vindicators, and BA Vindicators are OP.
That also makes it quite expensive in the points area. Don't get me wrong, I still run it (and it is OP if it can start shooting and not get popped right away), but it is a pretty sizable point suck. I mean...+30 points to a vindicator is only 20 points away from running another one of BT's absurdly OP Tornado Speeder. It's really cool, but it's still a vindicator, and still a huge target. That PotMS does not stop it from exploding super fast.
If we're going to talk about BT being OP, I vote for their Ven Dreads. For 143 points (BTW, a PotMS Vindicator is 158 points) you get an assault cannon dread, with venerable, preferred enemy on the CCW, and tank hunter. It's a fucking joke to see that thing troll face his way through a mechanized army. Drop pod in and just start wrecking shit.
In fact, if I ever make a second dread for my BT army, I am actually going to model an optional "Troll Face" head for him. Last game I played (2 months ago, been focusing on painting and Orks), my Ven dread killed 3 Rhino's, a land raider, and a rifleman dread...all before he took any real damage. I run him with Extra Armor and Smoke, so I can venerable the damaging hits, and hopefully shrug them off with extra armor. It's 5 points that usually pays for itself.
Black Templar sound awesome. How are their terminators? They are not getting a rules update soon, correct?
their terminators are just like normal SM ones, just you can buy them furious charge or tank hunters, and buy two cyclones or asscans in 5 man squads for tha tac ones
The Mount's in the core book. SURE I can use a weapon untrained, but that's a gigantic -20% penalty.
So roll better, stupid.
Black Templar are pretty awesome. I wish their marines were 15 points with frag/krak, bolter/BP/CCW and their neophytes were 10 with frag/krak bolter/BP/CCW. Then you could play horde marines and not suck. Buried powerfists with PE... man that'd be awesome.
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
5 man. Current BT codex. Only real redeemable quality of that army right now (besides the occasional shut out you can dish out with some good playing).
BT so OP right now, man
Yeah, BT are stupid right now. Machine Spirit on Vindicators makes them better than BA Vindicators, and BA Vindicators are OP.
That also makes it quite expensive in the points area. Don't get me wrong, I still run it (and it is OP if it can start shooting and not get popped right away), but it is a pretty sizable point suck. I mean...+30 points to a vindicator is only 20 points away from running another one of BT's absurdly OP Tornado Speeder. It's really cool, but it's still a vindicator, and still a huge target. That PotMS does not stop it from exploding super fast.
If we're going to talk about BT being OP, I vote for their Ven Dreads. For 143 points (BTW, a PotMS Vindicator is 158 points) you get an assault cannon dread, with venerable, preferred enemy on the CCW, and tank hunter. It's a fucking joke to see that thing troll face his way through a mechanized army. Drop pod in and just start wrecking shit.
In fact, if I ever make a second dread for my BT army, I am actually going to model an optional "Troll Face" head for him. Last game I played (2 months ago, been focusing on painting and Orks), my Ven dread killed 3 Rhino's, a land raider, and a rifleman dread...all before he took any real damage. I run him with Extra Armor and Smoke, so I can venerable the damaging hits, and hopefully shrug them off with extra armor. It's 5 points that usually pays for itself.
Black Templar sound awesome. How are their terminators? They are not getting a rules update soon, correct?
There was a bunch of rumor stuff that BT was getting update soon, but that sort of fell off the radar. So...the codex is done, but it's been :GW:'d
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
5 man. Current BT codex. Only real redeemable quality of that army right now (besides the occasional shut out you can dish out with some good playing).
BT so OP right now, man
Yeah, BT are stupid right now. Machine Spirit on Vindicators makes them better than BA Vindicators, and BA Vindicators are OP.
That also makes it quite expensive in the points area. Don't get me wrong, I still run it (and it is OP if it can start shooting and not get popped right away), but it is a pretty sizable point suck. I mean...+30 points to a vindicator is only 20 points away from running another one of BT's absurdly OP Tornado Speeder. It's really cool, but it's still a vindicator, and still a huge target. That PotMS does not stop it from exploding super fast.
If we're going to talk about BT being OP, I vote for their Ven Dreads. For 143 points (BTW, a PotMS Vindicator is 158 points) you get an assault cannon dread, with venerable, preferred enemy on the CCW, and tank hunter. It's a fucking joke to see that thing troll face his way through a mechanized army. Drop pod in and just start wrecking shit.
In fact, if I ever make a second dread for my BT army, I am actually going to model an optional "Troll Face" head for him. Last game I played (2 months ago, been focusing on painting and Orks), my Ven dread killed 3 Rhino's, a land raider, and a rifleman dread...all before he took any real damage. I run him with Extra Armor and Smoke, so I can venerable the damaging hits, and hopefully shrug them off with extra armor. It's 5 points that usually pays for itself.
Black Templar sound awesome. How are their terminators? They are not getting a rules update soon, correct?
There was a bunch of rumor stuff that BT was getting update soon, but that sort of fell off the radar. So...the codex is done, but it's been :GW:'d
IIRC, the models are done, and have been for about 18 months. Whether the book is done or not, I haven't heard much. But it seems Black Templars were pushed back by Dark Angels and Chaos.
5 man. Current BT codex. Only real redeemable quality of that army right now (besides the occasional shut out you can dish out with some good playing).
BT so OP right now, man
Yeah, BT are stupid right now. Machine Spirit on Vindicators makes them better than BA Vindicators, and BA Vindicators are OP.
That also makes it quite expensive in the points area. Don't get me wrong, I still run it (and it is OP if it can start shooting and not get popped right away), but it is a pretty sizable point suck. I mean...+30 points to a vindicator is only 20 points away from running another one of BT's absurdly OP Tornado Speeder. It's really cool, but it's still a vindicator, and still a huge target. That PotMS does not stop it from exploding super fast.
If we're going to talk about BT being OP, I vote for their Ven Dreads. For 143 points (BTW, a PotMS Vindicator is 158 points) you get an assault cannon dread, with venerable, preferred enemy on the CCW, and tank hunter. It's a fucking joke to see that thing troll face his way through a mechanized army. Drop pod in and just start wrecking shit.
In fact, if I ever make a second dread for my BT army, I am actually going to model an optional "Troll Face" head for him. Last game I played (2 months ago, been focusing on painting and Orks), my Ven dread killed 3 Rhino's, a land raider, and a rifleman dread...all before he took any real damage. I run him with Extra Armor and Smoke, so I can venerable the damaging hits, and hopefully shrug them off with extra armor. It's 5 points that usually pays for itself.
Black Templar sound awesome. How are their terminators? They are not getting a rules update soon, correct?
There was a bunch of rumor stuff that BT was getting update soon, but that sort of fell off the radar. So...the codex is done, but it's been :GW:'d
IIRC, the models are done, and have been for about 18 months. Whether the book is done or not, I haven't heard much. But it seems Black Templars were pushed back by Dark Angels and Chaos.
Which still means it was :GW:'d. If you have a finished product, sell me that product before it's made obsolete because you made game changes but didn't change the codex because "eh, it's already done".
I have no doubts that will/would happen.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Considering it's now basically pushed from 5th to 6th edition, I'd say a bit of a rewrite is in order. GW wouldn't let a good selling SM chapter go to the shelves with a bad codex these days.
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
I have faith in their desire for money. Space Marine releases make them more money than other books. Releasing a Space Marine book with sub-par rules is not something any department in GW would approve.
-Loki- on
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
Rumours are now saying the Chaos codex which has a focus on legions (rumours aren't calling it Chaos Legions anymore) is May.
Which means I'm in trouble.
Oh man, I am in so deep right if this turns out to be truth.
First off, where are these rumors from? Second and more pressing, if this is true, somewhat mean that chaos is going to be "5th with 6th in mind" like we were last time? Because coming out sooner is cool, but that would make me sad.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
I think they're shooting for the "5th with 6th in mind" thing. Which isn't saying much since rumors put 6th coming out summer? of this year.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Rumours are now saying the Chaos codex which has a focus on legions (rumours aren't calling it Chaos Legions anymore) is May.
Which means I'm in trouble.
Oh man, I am in so deep right if this turns out to be truth.
First off, where are these rumors from? Second and more pressing, if this is true, somewhat mean that chaos is going to be "5th with 6th in mind" like we were last time? Because coming out sooner is cool, but that would make me sad.
Apparently all codices since Tyranids have been 5th with 6th in mind if you believe some of the rumours from last year.
There's the rumour (again, it's from stick monkey, so take with a ton of salt, he's usually wrong)
So my snitches have passed along a few bits.
Up next for 40k sounds like may timeframe for a chaos codex. Rumored to expand upon 4 major legions.
New plastics
Chaos dread.
New plastic raptors
New plastic plague bearers
New character sculpts, not sure if abaddon is included...
I think most if not all of this has been mentioned before.
On top of this, I'm hearing there will be a few blister releases for other armies between now and summer. Even with WFB likely to take the spotlight in April, I'm being told to expect 2-3 blisters for 40k.
Likely candidates include missing characters for Nids, Necrons, DE. All of which have sculpts ready.
Cheers.
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
edited March 2012
What are your thoughts on digital weapons for the chaplain in the termie squad, or the captain with the relic blade?
I bought Army Builder. So I've been playing around with the number of bikes in each squad and with the number of attack bikes I have. Instead of one attack bike squad of 3 attack bikes, I was going to run one squad with two and one with one attack bike, and if I go two squads with one bike each that's 40 more points I could throw into a tac squad in a rhino (but then I'm losing even more anti-tank). My sticking point still seems to be that squad has to be a full ten man squad to get anything special like the missile luncher and plasma gun. S I still don't think I can use it.
valhalla130 on
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I prefer my Chaos to be more of the 'traitor marine' variety and less of the 'mutant tentacle' variety. If the new codex had some Alpha Legion variant that kinda ignored all that stupid demon business I'd be down.
If GW dropped a Warhammer 30k, even as a one-off thing like Space Hulk, I would buy the fuck out of it. I honestly think they could make a killing by releasing heresy-era models. I understand why they don't bother, but god damn. All my money.
ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
I enjoy having my Chaos to be mildly mutated for every cult choice besides Khorne. I also like each one having their own bit of individuality, which the mutations help with, instead of the uniform look of Loyalist mans.
Extreaminatus on
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
If GW dropped a Warhammer 30k, even as a one-off thing like Space Hulk, I would buy the fuck out of it. I honestly think they could make a killing by releasing heresy-era models. I understand why they don't bother, but god damn. All my money.
A lot of rumour guys have commented on it, basically, from what they understand, Heresy era is GW's fallback if sales wane. They know it'll make a killing, they know if done right it'll bring a lot of old people back, so they're holding on to it for when they need it, and just letting Forgeworld do random bits of leftover stuff still in existence in the current timeline.
If GW brought back an updated Epic and BFG line, I know I'd be dropping hundreds on armies/fleets. As would many people...I want to know, what is stopping them from making money?
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I'd imagine they're afraid of their old properties not making money again. Even with the promise that the demographic that wants these games back are now the group with considerable disposable income, I don't blame them for not gambling on this.
Someone needs to whisper 'Kickstarter' into GW's ear.
I want to know, what is stopping them from making money?
They don't want to support specialist games. That's about it. They didn't really even when they did them. Epic Armageddon had a lot of stuff lined up for release that never went into production.
I want to see more stuff like Dreadfleet and Space Hulk done, preferably expandable using their existing model range. Like, Warhammer Quest. This one is so simple, I really don't know why anyone there hasn't seen it. It's long, so spoilered.
Make it a boxed game ala Space Hulk. Give it a chunky main rulebook with a campaign, 4 heroes, and put in 4-5 sprues of enemies. Some Orcs, skeletons, goblins, spiders, wolves, a minotaur, an ogre, then a Necromancer and something to use as a final tough boss, like a Chaos Lord. Put in the tiles.
Simple, clean fun for a game. Here's where they make more money. In the back of the main book, have guidelines for making your own campaign, and use the included tiles (if people are interested enough in making their own campaign without the in game tiles, it's easy enough making some). Include not only the profiles sheets for the included 4 heroes, but include a generic profile sheet for a bunch of heroes (a Northman, an Empire citizen, an Elf, a Saurus, an Orc, etc), so you can make all kinds of personalised heroes from any model in their range.
Now, how to make more money. Include a second book, a bestiary. Include stats for everything. Basic enemies like Orcs, Goblins, Zombies, Skeletons, Elves, etc? Give them a quarter page each. This lets you do all the basics of a race on one or two pages. Anything like monstrous infantry (Ogres, Minotaurs, Trolls, etc) get half a page each, with room for some special rules. Anyhting bigger (like dragons, manticores, chimerae, etc) get a full page each with room for enough special rules to make them fearsome. Have a few pages dedicated to turn any infantry into a 'boss'. Make this book nice and chunky, to help justify the higher price point the game will inevitably have.
Now you have a Warhammer Fantasy gateway game. People buy Warhammer Quest, play through the campaign, and have fun. They see the bestiary, and wonder about these awesome things they could have in a game. They see the rules for making their own campaign, and go read about some of the races online. Maybe they want to make a Lustrian campaign? Well, they might go buy a box of Saurus, a box of Skinks, a plastic Oldblood and a finecast skink preist for their bosses and a Stegodon for the big tough monster. GW have now sold 5 kits they normally wouldn't have.
This person might get interested in Warhammer Fantasy enough to go back to the store and pick up the Lizardmen army book for more inspiration. They see people playing games with full armies, and get interested enough to try a demo game. GW just gained a new WHFB customer.
-Loki- on
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Release a "One Off" (like Space Hulk) that is a new set of rules. A blend of 40k Kill Team and Necromunda, as well as a mirror for Fantasy. This doesn't need continued support, just release some high quality hard cover rule books for Necromunda-"lite" and Mordheim-"lite". These new systems will cause their current lines to be consumed more (as people make small armies for the new larger scale games [it's larger scale when you focus on smaller elements]), and prove that there is a market for RPG-style miniature war games.
Then, the next year, release an expansion for the 40k "One Off". Basically a reboot of BFG, just include the ship models in a box like Space Hulk. Watch it fly off the shelves, showing there's a huge market for the game.
If they do it like Space Hulk and Dread Fleet, they take little risk. We also know that these worked wonderfully for GW.
According to Me, GW should be using the systems they developed for the Space Hulk reboot to test the markets for their old games that were much better written and more fun to play then their current games.
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
edited March 2012
Here's what I believe is my final list, after playing around with Army Builder, and addressing what had become a serious lack of antitank. I even managed to throw in another Attack Bike and add some twin-linked lascannons and sponson lascannons to one of the predators. Barring any cries of "WHAT!?! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!", I believe this is what I will buy to, and only this.
Imperial Fist 3rd Co.
HQ: Space Marine Captain in Power Armour (1#, 205 pts)
1 Captain Drusus Gaul, 205 pts (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Iron Halo; Digital Weapons; Artificer Armour; Relic Blade x1; Storm Shield x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics; Independent Character)
1 Space Marine Bike (Twin-Linked Bolter)
HQ: Space Marine Chaplain in Terminator Armour (1#, 140 pts)
1 Space Marine Chaplain in Terminator Armour, 140 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Rosarius; Crozius Arcanum; Digital Weapons; Storm Bolter; Combat Tactics; Fearless; Honour of the Chapter; Independent Character; Liturgies of Battle)
Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (6#, 450 pts)
4 Terminator Assault Squad, 450 pts ((C:SM, pg. 64 & 136); Unit Type: Infantry; Lightning Claws (pair) x2; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x2; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Land Raider ((C:SM, pg. 81 & 142); Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; 2x Twin Linked Lascannons; Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter; Assault Vehicle; Power of the Machine Spirit)
Troops: Space Marine Bike Squad (6#, 235 pts)
4 Space Marine Bike Squad, 235 pts ((C:SM, pg. 68 & 140); Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol x2; Meltagun x2; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Attack Bike (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol; Multi-melta; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Power Fist; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
Troops: Space Marine Bike Squad (6#, 235 pts)
4 Space Marine Bike Squad, 235 pts ((C:SM, pg. 68 & 140); Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol x2; Meltagun x2; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Attack Bike (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol; Multi-melta; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Power Fist; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
Troops: Scout Squad (5#, 100 pts)
4 Scout Squad, 100 pts ((C:SM, pg. 66 & 134); Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Scout Armour; Bolt Pistol x4; Combat Blade x4; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Infiltrate; Move Through Cover; Scouts)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Scout Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Infiltrate; Move Through Cover; Scouts)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Storm (1#, 60 pts)
1 Land Speeder Storm, 60 pts ((C:SM, pg. 75 & 141); Unit Type: Vehicle (Open-topped); Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Fast); Transport Capacity: 5 models; Cerberus Launcher; Jamming Beacon; Heavy Flamer; Deep Strike; Scouts)
Fast Attack: Attack Bike Squad (2#, 100 pts)
2 Attack Bike Squad, 100 pts ((C:SM, pg. 68 & 140); Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol x2; Multi-melta x2; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
Fast Attack: Attack Bike Squad (2#, 100 pts)
2 Attack Bike Squad, 100 pts ((C:SM, pg. 68 & 140); Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol x2; Multi-melta x2; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 85 pts)
1 Predator, 85 pts ((C:SM, pg. 78 & 143); Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Autocannon; Heavy Bolter (each side))
Anyone ever heard of Fantascape? I bought some resin bike bases from them thru eBay. I'll let you know what I think when I get them. Secret Weapon Miniatures doesn't have their Urban Rubble bases for bikes, but Fantascape has the Gothic ruins bases for bikes. They look pretty similar.
Now you've gone to far the other direction. You have 10 melta/multi-melta's in your army. That's way over kill for a marine army. Especially since they also have power fists.
Things I would change if I were making this list:
Drop the stupid searchlight from the dread.
Buy the dread a drop pod (your entire army is moving at light speed, except that dude. Even the predators have the ability to move quickly if they need to.) so he doesn't just trundle up the field and die since he's unsupported.
Pick one of your bike squads, switch it over from ALL MELTA ALL THE TIME to 2x plasma and a heavy bolter. Leave the power fist because that still gives the squad the fail-safe ability to rip open a tank if needed.
Pick one of your attack bike squads and switch it over to 2x heavy bolters. These bikes will be really good at shredding infantry.
I'd also make both predators TWL-Lascannons with Heavy Bolter sponsons, simply because I like them in that set up. I've rarely been able to fire everything on a predator, so moving 6" every turn and having some flexibility is pretty rad.
And what's up with the troop+transport packages? Are they being sold anywhere, because they're not on the GW site. *grumble, grumble, GW sales strategy, grumble*
As an update on this, the store I got my bundles from is saying the Chaos bundle is already sold out at GW.
why are you smelling it?
0
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
And what's up with the troop+transport packages? Are they being sold anywhere, because they're not on the GW site. *grumble, grumble, GW sales strategy, grumble*
As an update on this, the store I got my bundles from is saying the Chaos bundle is already sold out at GW.
Wasn't it an indie store only deal? From what I read, these weren't going to GW stores.
Posts
Does the Storm count as relentless?
EDIT: AndI'm sure I could find something else to spend the melta bomb points on. I just thought they might be for that off-chance.
You know, this codex doesn't seem to have as many wargear options for characters and the older codexes did.
That also makes it quite expensive in the points area. Don't get me wrong, I still run it (and it is OP if it can start shooting and not get popped right away), but it is a pretty sizable point suck. I mean...+30 points to a vindicator is only 20 points away from running another one of BT's absurdly OP Tornado Speeder. It's really cool, but it's still a vindicator, and still a huge target. That PotMS does not stop it from exploding super fast.
If we're going to talk about BT being OP, I vote for their Ven Dreads. For 143 points (BTW, a PotMS Vindicator is 158 points) you get an assault cannon dread, with venerable, preferred enemy on the CCW, and tank hunter. It's a fucking joke to see that thing troll face his way through a mechanized army. Drop pod in and just start wrecking shit.
In fact, if I ever make a second dread for my BT army, I am actually going to model an optional "Troll Face" head for him. Last game I played (2 months ago, been focusing on painting and Orks), my Ven dread killed 3 Rhino's, a land raider, and a rifleman dread...all before he took any real damage. I run him with Extra Armor and Smoke, so I can venerable the damaging hits, and hopefully shrug them off with extra armor. It's 5 points that usually pays for itself.
But I'm a Rogue Trader! I can't even wield a Melta Gun until Rank 4! That's the soonest Basic Weapon Training (Univ.) becomes available. It's pretty dumb. Is the shotgun ammo in the basic RT book as well as the wrist mount?
Uh... it's a vehicle? That's fast? So it can move 12" and shoot 1 primary weapon and all defensive.
You can wield anything without training, you just suffer penalties.
I think they're both in the expansion, but not sure.
The Mount's in the core book. SURE I can use a weapon untrained, but that's a gigantic -20% penalty.
Black Templar sound awesome. How are their terminators? They are not getting a rules update soon, correct?
So roll better, stupid.
Black Templar are pretty awesome. I wish their marines were 15 points with frag/krak, bolter/BP/CCW and their neophytes were 10 with frag/krak bolter/BP/CCW. Then you could play horde marines and not suck. Buried powerfists with PE... man that'd be awesome.
There was a bunch of rumor stuff that BT was getting update soon, but that sort of fell off the radar. So...the codex is done, but it's been :GW:'d
IIRC, the models are done, and have been for about 18 months. Whether the book is done or not, I haven't heard much. But it seems Black Templars were pushed back by Dark Angels and Chaos.
Which still means it was :GW:'d. If you have a finished product, sell me that product before it's made obsolete because you made game changes but didn't change the codex because "eh, it's already done".
I have no doubts that will/would happen.
Oh man, I am in so deep right if this turns out to be truth.
First off, where are these rumors from? Second and more pressing, if this is true, somewhat mean that chaos is going to be "5th with 6th in mind" like we were last time? Because coming out sooner is cool, but that would make me sad.
Apparently all codices since Tyranids have been 5th with 6th in mind if you believe some of the rumours from last year.
There's the rumour (again, it's from stick monkey, so take with a ton of salt, he's usually wrong)
I bought Army Builder. So I've been playing around with the number of bikes in each squad and with the number of attack bikes I have. Instead of one attack bike squad of 3 attack bikes, I was going to run one squad with two and one with one attack bike, and if I go two squads with one bike each that's 40 more points I could throw into a tac squad in a rhino (but then I'm losing even more anti-tank). My sticking point still seems to be that squad has to be a full ten man squad to get anything special like the missile luncher and plasma gun. S I still don't think I can use it.
If GW dropped a Warhammer 30k, even as a one-off thing like Space Hulk, I would buy the fuck out of it. I honestly think they could make a killing by releasing heresy-era models. I understand why they don't bother, but god damn. All my money.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
A lot of rumour guys have commented on it, basically, from what they understand, Heresy era is GW's fallback if sales wane. They know it'll make a killing, they know if done right it'll bring a lot of old people back, so they're holding on to it for when they need it, and just letting Forgeworld do random bits of leftover stuff still in existence in the current timeline.
Seriously. Epic, BFG, Necromunda, Mordheim. Those were the 4 best GW games ever. 40k and WHFB are actually their two weakest products.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Someone needs to whisper 'Kickstarter' into GW's ear.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
That's how GW operates.
They don't want to support specialist games. That's about it. They didn't really even when they did them. Epic Armageddon had a lot of stuff lined up for release that never went into production.
I want to see more stuff like Dreadfleet and Space Hulk done, preferably expandable using their existing model range. Like, Warhammer Quest. This one is so simple, I really don't know why anyone there hasn't seen it. It's long, so spoilered.
Simple, clean fun for a game. Here's where they make more money. In the back of the main book, have guidelines for making your own campaign, and use the included tiles (if people are interested enough in making their own campaign without the in game tiles, it's easy enough making some). Include not only the profiles sheets for the included 4 heroes, but include a generic profile sheet for a bunch of heroes (a Northman, an Empire citizen, an Elf, a Saurus, an Orc, etc), so you can make all kinds of personalised heroes from any model in their range.
Now, how to make more money. Include a second book, a bestiary. Include stats for everything. Basic enemies like Orcs, Goblins, Zombies, Skeletons, Elves, etc? Give them a quarter page each. This lets you do all the basics of a race on one or two pages. Anything like monstrous infantry (Ogres, Minotaurs, Trolls, etc) get half a page each, with room for some special rules. Anyhting bigger (like dragons, manticores, chimerae, etc) get a full page each with room for enough special rules to make them fearsome. Have a few pages dedicated to turn any infantry into a 'boss'. Make this book nice and chunky, to help justify the higher price point the game will inevitably have.
Now you have a Warhammer Fantasy gateway game. People buy Warhammer Quest, play through the campaign, and have fun. They see the bestiary, and wonder about these awesome things they could have in a game. They see the rules for making their own campaign, and go read about some of the races online. Maybe they want to make a Lustrian campaign? Well, they might go buy a box of Saurus, a box of Skinks, a plastic Oldblood and a finecast skink preist for their bosses and a Stegodon for the big tough monster. GW have now sold 5 kits they normally wouldn't have.
This person might get interested in Warhammer Fantasy enough to go back to the store and pick up the Lizardmen army book for more inspiration. They see people playing games with full armies, and get interested enough to try a demo game. GW just gained a new WHFB customer.
Amen brother.
Release a "One Off" (like Space Hulk) that is a new set of rules. A blend of 40k Kill Team and Necromunda, as well as a mirror for Fantasy. This doesn't need continued support, just release some high quality hard cover rule books for Necromunda-"lite" and Mordheim-"lite". These new systems will cause their current lines to be consumed more (as people make small armies for the new larger scale games [it's larger scale when you focus on smaller elements]), and prove that there is a market for RPG-style miniature war games.
Then, the next year, release an expansion for the 40k "One Off". Basically a reboot of BFG, just include the ship models in a box like Space Hulk. Watch it fly off the shelves, showing there's a huge market for the game.
If they do it like Space Hulk and Dread Fleet, they take little risk. We also know that these worked wonderfully for GW.
According to Me, GW should be using the systems they developed for the Space Hulk reboot to test the markets for their old games that were much better written and more fun to play then their current games.
Imperial Fist 3rd Co.
1 Captain Drusus Gaul, 205 pts (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Iron Halo; Digital Weapons; Artificer Armour; Relic Blade x1; Storm Shield x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics; Independent Character)
1 Space Marine Bike (Twin-Linked Bolter)
HQ: Space Marine Chaplain in Terminator Armour (1#, 140 pts)
1 Space Marine Chaplain in Terminator Armour, 140 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Rosarius; Crozius Arcanum; Digital Weapons; Storm Bolter; Combat Tactics; Fearless; Honour of the Chapter; Independent Character; Liturgies of Battle)
Elite: Dreadnought (1#, 125 pts)
1 Dreadnought, 125 pts ((C:SM, pg. 65 & 137); Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dreadnought CCW; Heavy Flamer; Assault Cannon)
Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (6#, 450 pts)
4 Terminator Assault Squad, 450 pts ((C:SM, pg. 64 & 136); Unit Type: Infantry; Lightning Claws (pair) x2; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x2; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Land Raider ((C:SM, pg. 81 & 142); Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; 2x Twin Linked Lascannons; Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter; Assault Vehicle; Power of the Machine Spirit)
Troops: Space Marine Bike Squad (6#, 235 pts)
4 Space Marine Bike Squad, 235 pts ((C:SM, pg. 68 & 140); Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol x2; Meltagun x2; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Attack Bike (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol; Multi-melta; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Power Fist; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
Troops: Space Marine Bike Squad (6#, 235 pts)
4 Space Marine Bike Squad, 235 pts ((C:SM, pg. 68 & 140); Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol x2; Meltagun x2; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Attack Bike (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol; Multi-melta; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Power Fist; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
Troops: Scout Squad (5#, 100 pts)
4 Scout Squad, 100 pts ((C:SM, pg. 66 & 134); Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Scout Armour; Bolt Pistol x4; Combat Blade x4; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Infiltrate; Move Through Cover; Scouts)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Scout Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Infiltrate; Move Through Cover; Scouts)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Storm (1#, 60 pts)
1 Land Speeder Storm, 60 pts ((C:SM, pg. 75 & 141); Unit Type: Vehicle (Open-topped); Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Fast); Transport Capacity: 5 models; Cerberus Launcher; Jamming Beacon; Heavy Flamer; Deep Strike; Scouts)
Fast Attack: Attack Bike Squad (2#, 100 pts)
2 Attack Bike Squad, 100 pts ((C:SM, pg. 68 & 140); Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol x2; Multi-melta x2; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
Fast Attack: Attack Bike Squad (2#, 100 pts)
2 Attack Bike Squad, 100 pts ((C:SM, pg. 68 & 140); Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol x2; Multi-melta x2; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 85 pts)
1 Predator, 85 pts ((C:SM, pg. 78 & 143); Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Autocannon; Heavy Bolter (each side))
Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 165 pts)
1 Predator, 165 pts ((C:SM, pg. 78 & 143); Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Lascannon; Lascannon (each side))
Anyone ever heard of Fantascape? I bought some resin bike bases from them thru eBay. I'll let you know what I think when I get them. Secret Weapon Miniatures doesn't have their Urban Rubble bases for bikes, but Fantascape has the Gothic ruins bases for bikes. They look pretty similar.
Things I would change if I were making this list:
Drop the stupid searchlight from the dread.
Buy the dread a drop pod (your entire army is moving at light speed, except that dude. Even the predators have the ability to move quickly if they need to.) so he doesn't just trundle up the field and die since he's unsupported.
Pick one of your bike squads, switch it over from ALL MELTA ALL THE TIME to 2x plasma and a heavy bolter. Leave the power fist because that still gives the squad the fail-safe ability to rip open a tank if needed.
Pick one of your attack bike squads and switch it over to 2x heavy bolters. These bikes will be really good at shredding infantry.
I'd also make both predators TWL-Lascannons with Heavy Bolter sponsons, simply because I like them in that set up. I've rarely been able to fire everything on a predator, so moving 6" every turn and having some flexibility is pretty rad.
As an update on this, the store I got my bundles from is saying the Chaos bundle is already sold out at GW.
Wasn't it an indie store only deal? From what I read, these weren't going to GW stores.