Yeah, 'nids is not a sub-par army as long as you stay away from certain bad options. It's not a good book, but the good units that it has are legitimately good units.
That's something entirely different than looking at how much Bright Lances cost the eldar. I mean holy shit dem point costs. Army building is important in any miniature game, and when you're starting off behind it's just that much harder for you once you're at the table.
Then Maybe you are playing to win? I mean I don't sit down and mathhammer out lists when I go to play I just pick out units that I like, are cool, and are fun to use. It is a rare game that me taking Carnifex, or Raveners has made it unenjoyable, and even in those games it's not the book or the unit, it's whoever you are playing.
I would hope that when you're actually playing the game you're trying to win. Or do you just not shoot anything at your opponents stuff and let them roll over you? I play the game to have fun, trying to win is part of playing the game. Even when we do narrative campaign stuff, just because you're trying to play out a story doesn't mean you're not trying to win the game that you're playing.
Seriously, this is not an issue with me. It is an issue with GW. And the worst part is they've got people thinking that it's okay for them to have bad release schedules.
Just think about how much more fun everyone could be having if everyone's stuff started out at the same level. Then conversations like this wouldn't even be necessary.
Yeah, 'nids is not a sub-par army as long as you stay away from certain bad options. It's not a good book, but the good units that it has are legitimately good units.
That's something entirely different than looking at how much Bright Lances cost the eldar. I mean holy shit dem point costs. Army building is important in any miniature game, and when you're starting off behind it's just that much harder for you once you're at the table.
Yeah, I'd love for every option in every book to be perfectly balanced. Of course I would! But it isn't the case and I doubt it's going to happen.
In my experience the gap between codex isn't massive anyway and most of the 'sub-par' units are actually pretty useable (swooping hawks for one example of a unit I see slated here all the time. Absolutely wreck nids if you're smart and are great for a last minute objective contest).
Just feels like telling someone not to play an army, even if they really love the models, because the book is somewhat below par, is a bit of a dick move when chances are it won't matter, unless you're playing the kind of win at all costs douches who only sing when they're winning and you're probably best off avoiding!
I would hope that when you're actually playing the game you're trying to win. Or do you just not shoot anything at your opponents stuff and let them roll over you? I play the game to have fun, trying to win is part of playing the game.
Seriously, this is not an issue with me. It is an issue with GW. And the worst part is they've got people thinking that it's okay for them to have bad release schedules.
Obviously I try and win, but winning does not dictate fun in my mind. Everyone wants to win, but playing Eldar, or Tau can still a be a lot of fun even if they are a little weaker than other books,
I would hope that when you're actually playing the game you're trying to win. Or do you just not shoot anything at your opponents stuff and let them roll over you? I play the game to have fun, trying to win is part of playing the game. Even when we do narrative campaign stuff, just because you're trying to play out a story doesn't mean you're not trying to win the game that you're playing.
Seriously, this is not an issue with me. It is an issue with GW. And the worst part is they've got people thinking that it's okay for them to have bad release schedules.
Just think about how much more fun everyone could be having if everyone's stuff started out at the same level. Then conversations like this wouldn't even be necessary.
A conversation we have every time a couple new guys hop in the thread. This isn't exactly a revolutionary idea that's being discussed, in fact the example of how poorly written the Eldar and Tau books are in the current game environment has been cited as an example of how bad GW is at maintaining their game every time I've seen this dialog.
Yeah, I'd love for every option in every book to be perfectly balanced. Of course I would! But it isn't the case and I doubt it's going to happen.
In my experience the gap between codex isn't massive anyway and most of the 'sub-par' units are actually pretty useable (swooping hawks for one example of a unit I see slated here all the time. Absolutely wreck nids if you're smart and are great for a last minute objective contest).
Just feels like telling someone not to play an army, even if they really love the models, because the book is somewhat below par, is a bit of a dick move when chances are it won't matter, unless you're playing the kind of win at all costs douches who only sing when they're winning and you're probably best off avoiding!
I didn't say everything had to be perfectly balanced. I also didn't say for people not to play the armies they like. And none of the people I play are douche bags, either, but that doesn't keep them from being good at the game. Stop straw manning, maaaan. (Oh and also swooping hawks are pretty terrible even against 'Nids, sorry bro )
Obviously I try and win, but winning does not dictate fun in my mind. Everyone wants to win, but playing Eldar, or Tau can still a be a lot of fun even if they are a little weaker than other books,
I never said winning dictates fun. But competition is fun, and winning is pretty fun too even if it's not what you're after, even if it isn't serious competition, and especially when that competition involves tiny plastic space mans. I just want everyone to be able to start off at the same level of competitive and be able to enjoy the game more fully by not being put on the mathematics short bus due to them liking a particular model range
I commissioned my rhino chassis vehicles to my friend because he wanted some stuff I had... so he's painting them. Normally I wouldn't use stuff other people painted but I don't really mind this one. Three rhinos and three preds:
(swooping hawks for one example of a unit I see slated here all the time. Absolutely wreck nids if you're smart and are great for a last minute objective contest).
My friends Swooping Hawk squad with Exarch accomplished killing 5 Termagants with their grenade pack. Then died to the other 7 and a few Gargoyles.
In my experience the gap between codex isn't massive anyway and most of the 'sub-par' units are actually pretty useable (swooping hawks for one example of a unit I see slated here all the time. Absolutely wreck nids if you're smart and are great for a last minute objective contest).
Swooping Hawks are in contention with Chaos Spawn and Flayed Ones for the worst unit in the game, what is this I don't even
In my experience the gap between codex isn't massive anyway and most of the 'sub-par' units are actually pretty useable (swooping hawks for one example of a unit I see slated here all the time. Absolutely wreck nids if you're smart and are great for a last minute objective contest).
Swooping Hawks are in contention with Chaos Spawn and Flayed Ones for the worst unit in the game, what is this I don't even
Flayed ones are.... okay? They're like slightly more durable slightly weaker Genestealers.
So got my eldrad and avatar this weekend. I am really tempted to cut off eldrads sword and replace it with my farseers. If this was to scale it would be 4 feet of hilt with four feet of blade, it just seems wrong on every level.
In my experience the gap between codex isn't massive anyway and most of the 'sub-par' units are actually pretty useable (swooping hawks for one example of a unit I see slated here all the time. Absolutely wreck nids if you're smart and are great for a last minute objective contest).
Swooping Hawks are in contention with Chaos Spawn and Flayed Ones for the worst unit in the game, what is this I don't even
Flayed ones are.... okay? They're like slightly more durable slightly weaker Genestealers.
Pyrovores. Worst unit in 40k.
Flayed ones are dedicated CC units with S4 A3 I2, no movement bonuses save Infiltrate, no invuln, no grenades, and no special close combat attacks. They're incredibly overcosted tarpits.
Edit: Pyrovores would actually be kind of almost okay if they weren't an Elite slot.
I love Pyrovores. I want another 2 so I can field a unit of 3 in a spore. I just can't face the idea of actually paying money for them.
You play Eldar.
And they are fabulous.
On the whole power levels thing, while eldar are severely undergunned/over pointed at this point in time they're not a bad book. Most units are still pretty decent. There are only a few absolute dogs (Ahem, swooping hawks) in the book. Player ability is also a pretty big deal too. ESPECIALLY for the eldar book as most of the units just need more ingenuity to get good results out of. One of my friends was the top ranked Eldar player in the country until he started up dark eldar instead and his list would be crucified on on any army lists thread you care to name. I'm a pretty decent player and even with the limitations I set myself (Biel-Tan, as many aspects as possible) I generally win the majority of my games and finish in the top 1/3 of the srs bznz tournaments I go too.
SJ does have a good point though. Eldar shouldn't be gimped. I should be able to take the army I want to without making a concious decision to penalise myself. Sadly, GW's retarded business practices are pretty well established, so there's not much to be done. In the mean time I'm going to continue to take a fun themey list I enjoy using and not really give a damn about winning and losing.
I took a balls dumb Jain Zar and Banshees on foot list to a tournament and only won a single game. I still had heaps of fun though and finished 11/40 because of my amazing comp, sports and painting scores. I Australian tournaments.
Flayed ones are dedicated CC units with S4 A3 I2, no movement bonuses save Infiltrate, no invuln, no grenades, and no special close combat attacks. They're incredibly overcosted tarpits.
Edit: Pyrovores would actually be kind of almost okay if they weren't an Elite slot.
They're also T4 with a 4+ and a 5+ chance to get back up.
They're not very good but they're not nearly the worst unit in the game.
Yeah Ethereals are the worst. I've seen them cost multiple players the game, multiple times.
I love Ethereals because of how bad they are. My friend bought right into Tau when they first released, and loved his two Ethereals. One was converted to have that special sword that made no sense because you never wanted them anywhere near combat.
Then I bought a Callidus assassin and some Daemonhunters. First game, Callidus appeared, neuroshredded his Ethereal, caused 3/4 of his army to run off the board, then proceeded to murder battlesuits using hit and run.
So, still in the process of painting this loota with some of the new paints. Using Lamenters yellow and then hitting the corners and some of the flat areas with a heavy dose of Agrax Earthshade makes a wonderful dirty yellow. Fuck yeah mob of Bad Moons lootas.
Yeah too bad they aren't any good at 40k down there. Government must force all the convicts to play nice so it doesn't get violent :bz
Pfff, we're just too busy channelling our energy into killing crocs with our bare hands and catching deadly snakes, that's all.
So, is that some kind of euphemism we haven't heard of on the upper part of the world? Choking the croc?
Yeah, because Australian penises are known around the globe as Crocodiles. They're lethal.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited April 2012
Crikey! Look at the teeth on that crocodile!
Now when I look at muggins avatar, all I see is Australian penis.
Gabriel_Pitt on
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
So I decided my 3rd Ed Pewter Company Commander (as seen in the spoiler) should be retired and I should get a new model to replace him.
But how should I honor his memory and 2 editions of service? By making a statue of him. Or him a statue.
The idea is that I'm going to mount the block onto a CD and then make a ring around the edge of the disc, like a fountain/statue. I think the paint job turned out rather nice. Just a couple of coats from a bronze metal spray paint.
Posts
Then Maybe you are playing to win? I mean I don't sit down and mathhammer out lists when I go to play I just pick out units that I like, are cool, and are fun to use. It is a rare game that me taking Carnifex, or Raveners has made it unenjoyable, and even in those games it's not the book or the unit, it's whoever you are playing.
Seriously, this is not an issue with me. It is an issue with GW. And the worst part is they've got people thinking that it's okay for them to have bad release schedules.
Just think about how much more fun everyone could be having if everyone's stuff started out at the same level. Then conversations like this wouldn't even be necessary.
Yeah, I'd love for every option in every book to be perfectly balanced. Of course I would! But it isn't the case and I doubt it's going to happen.
In my experience the gap between codex isn't massive anyway and most of the 'sub-par' units are actually pretty useable (swooping hawks for one example of a unit I see slated here all the time. Absolutely wreck nids if you're smart and are great for a last minute objective contest).
Just feels like telling someone not to play an army, even if they really love the models, because the book is somewhat below par, is a bit of a dick move when chances are it won't matter, unless you're playing the kind of win at all costs douches who only sing when they're winning and you're probably best off avoiding!
Thoughts of a Part-Time Hobbyist - A Wargaming and RPG Blog
Obviously I try and win, but winning does not dictate fun in my mind. Everyone wants to win, but playing Eldar, or Tau can still a be a lot of fun even if they are a little weaker than other books,
A conversation we have every time a couple new guys hop in the thread. This isn't exactly a revolutionary idea that's being discussed, in fact the example of how poorly written the Eldar and Tau books are in the current game environment has been cited as an example of how bad GW is at maintaining their game every time I've seen this dialog.
I didn't say everything had to be perfectly balanced. I also didn't say for people not to play the armies they like. And none of the people I play are douche bags, either, but that doesn't keep them from being good at the game. Stop straw manning, maaaan. (Oh and also swooping hawks are pretty terrible even against 'Nids, sorry bro
I never said winning dictates fun. But competition is fun, and winning is pretty fun too even if it's not what you're after, even if it isn't serious competition, and especially when that competition involves tiny plastic space mans. I just want everyone to be able to start off at the same level of competitive and be able to enjoy the game more fully by not being put on the mathematics short bus due to them liking a particular model range
Happy Easter everyone.
I commissioned my rhino chassis vehicles to my friend because he wanted some stuff I had... so he's painting them. Normally I wouldn't use stuff other people painted but I don't really mind this one. Three rhinos and three preds:
Command Rhino
If by awesome you mean horrendously queer.
Limp wristed fairies.
My friends Swooping Hawk squad with Exarch accomplished killing 5 Termagants with their grenade pack. Then died to the other 7 and a few Gargoyles.
Totally wrecked my Nids.
Swooping Hawks are in contention with Chaos Spawn and Flayed Ones for the worst unit in the game, what is this I don't even
Flayed ones are.... okay? They're like slightly more durable slightly weaker Genestealers.
Pyrovores. Worst unit in 40k.
Nothing about Pyrovores is funny.
Not even the suspiciously suggestive veins on its giant cock cannon? You know, the one that squirts burning fluid.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
That's more gross than funny.
Burning wang sploog? Errr... death by VD?
You play Eldar.
Flayed ones are dedicated CC units with S4 A3 I2, no movement bonuses save Infiltrate, no invuln, no grenades, and no special close combat attacks. They're incredibly overcosted tarpits.
Edit: Pyrovores would actually be kind of almost okay if they weren't an Elite slot.
Ethereals are so bad I forgot they existed
And they are fabulous.
On the whole power levels thing, while eldar are severely undergunned/over pointed at this point in time they're not a bad book. Most units are still pretty decent. There are only a few absolute dogs (Ahem, swooping hawks) in the book. Player ability is also a pretty big deal too. ESPECIALLY for the eldar book as most of the units just need more ingenuity to get good results out of. One of my friends was the top ranked Eldar player in the country until he started up dark eldar instead and his list would be crucified on on any army lists thread you care to name. I'm a pretty decent player and even with the limitations I set myself (Biel-Tan, as many aspects as possible) I generally win the majority of my games and finish in the top 1/3 of the srs bznz tournaments I go too.
SJ does have a good point though. Eldar shouldn't be gimped. I should be able to take the army I want to without making a concious decision to penalise myself. Sadly, GW's retarded business practices are pretty well established, so there's not much to be done. In the mean time I'm going to continue to take a fun themey list I enjoy using and not really give a damn about winning and losing.
I took a balls dumb Jain Zar and Banshees on foot list to a tournament and only won a single game. I still had heaps of fun though and finished 11/40 because of my amazing comp, sports and painting scores. I
They're also T4 with a 4+ and a 5+ chance to get back up.
They're not very good but they're not nearly the worst unit in the game.
Yeah Ethereals are the worst. I've seen them cost multiple players the game, multiple times.
"Oh what a day, what a LOVELY DAY!"
I love Ethereals because of how bad they are. My friend bought right into Tau when they first released, and loved his two Ethereals. One was converted to have that special sword that made no sense because you never wanted them anywhere near combat.
Then I bought a Callidus assassin and some Daemonhunters. First game, Callidus appeared, neuroshredded his Ethereal, caused 3/4 of his army to run off the board, then proceeded to murder battlesuits using hit and run.
He never used his Ethereals ever again.
Yeah it's pretty good.
Zing.
Pfff, we're just too busy channelling our energy into killing crocs with our bare hands and catching deadly snakes, that's all.
So, is that some kind of euphemism we haven't heard of on the upper part of the world? Choking the croc?
Yeah, because Australian penises are known around the globe as Crocodiles. They're lethal.
Now when I look at muggins avatar, all I see is Australian penis.
But how should I honor his memory and 2 editions of service? By making a statue of him. Or him a statue.
The idea is that I'm going to mount the block onto a CD and then make a ring around the edge of the disc, like a fountain/statue. I think the paint job turned out rather nice. Just a couple of coats from a bronze metal spray paint.