Should FGC be like NBA? That's an entirely different argument.
There are some who feel the FGC should become fully clean eSports, while others say that it should be more like eSports Entertainment.
There are color commentators in sports entertainment. For example, Jerry "The King" Lawler in the WWE was known to run around shouting after puppies. It's a totally different environment than the NBA.
I think there's enough room to have both WWE style events and NBA style events, but the problem is distinguishing them.
Should FGC be like NBA? That's an entirely different argument.
There are some who feel the FGC should become fully clean eSports, while others say that it should be more like eSports Entertainment.
There are color commentators in sports entertainment. For example, Jerry "The King" Lawler in the WWE was known to run around shouting after puppies. It's a totally different environment than the NBA.
I think there's enough room to have both WWE style events and NBA style events, but the problem is distinguishing them.
Right. And that's for another debate. I'm not arguing over whether FGC should remain the same or change to fully clean eSports.
The point is that comparing the current state of FGC to the professionalism of the NBA is stupid because they are very different entities.
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Baroque And RollEvery spark of friendship and loveWill die without a homeRegistered Userregular
The point is that comparing the current state of FGC to the professionalism of the NBA is stupid because they are very different entities.
Oh I'd agree. I would imagine you'd get exactly the same type of scandal and sensationalism if cameras were suddenly turned on to the street ball community and viewers were expecting the same standards of behavior as in the NBA.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
I think there's a difference between making a joke about something and treating something like it's a joke and even with the former it is situation dependent on whom should be making jokes.
Not to mention the fact that "it was only a joke" is what started this whole fucking thing in the first place.
This is tragic. He is a really nice guy, lent me a strategy guide once and never stopped helping the community and volunteering his services in running tournaments time and time again.
I think there's a difference between making a joke about something and treating something like it's a joke and even with the former it is situation dependent on whom should be making jokes.
Not to mention the fact that "it was only a joke" is what started this whole fucking thing in the first place.
It's like you're saying that only certain people should be allow to make jokes...
Obviously, people should be smart enough to know when it's appropriate to make a joke. But in this case, it was nothing more than a gigantic overreaction.
I see nothing wrong with what Marn and ETR said last night.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
This is tragic. He is a really nice guy, lent me a strategy guide once and never stopped helping the community and volunteering his services in running tournaments time and time again.
I agree this is unfortunate. A mild suspension was justified to make a statement. His resignation isn't necessary.
The point is that comparing the current state of FGC to the professionalism of the NBA is stupid because they are very different entities.
If comparing them is stupid than comparing FGC commentators to stand-up comics and late-night professionals is even more stupid as they have even less in common.
Oh and occasionally comedians get in trouble and apologize for poor judgement as well.
This is tragic. He is a really nice guy, lent me a strategy guide once and never stopped helping the community and volunteering his services in running tournaments time and time again.
I agree this is unfortunate. A mild suspension was justified to make a statement. His resignation isn't necessary.
The point is that comparing the current state of FGC to the professionalism of the NBA is stupid because they are very different entities.
If comparing them is stupid than comparing FGC commentators to stand-up comics and late-night professionals is even more stupid as they have even less in common.
Oh and occasionally comedians get in trouble and apologize for poor judgement as well.
Strawman argument.
I didn't compare FGC commentators to standup comics anywhere.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited March 2012
I'm strawmanning your own comparison?
EDIT: Knob brought up stand-up comics and you brought up the Daily Show.
If SRK wants professional commentators, they should be willing to pay for them.
It just seems filthy to be tossing volunteers on there then throwing them under a bus if they say something you don't like.
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Baroque And RollEvery spark of friendship and loveWill die without a homeRegistered Userregular
We don't know if it was SRK that made that call or LevelUp
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Or he did it on his own and maybe they can get him to come back later. People get suspended all the time and come out of it ok. This is the kind of thing I'd expect to happen to Aris himself not just some kid who was horsing around on stream.
EDIT: Knob brought up stand-up comics and you brought up the Daily Show.
I didn't say that Marn or ETR should behave like Jon Stewart, and that they should be able to say whatever they want.
I'm saying that to expect a certain standard of professionalism from FGC at its current state is unrealistic. Given its current state of professionalism, the comments made by Marn and ETR were not inappropriate.
so since you can draw an operational similarity between an nba broadcast and a tournament stream, the professional standard of one is the bottom line for the other?
Cross Counter is a late night talk show, the joke would be okay there?
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Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
so since you can draw an operational similarity between an nba broadcast and a tournament stream, the professional standard of one is the bottom line for the other?
Cross Counter is a late night talk show, the joke would be okay there?
I watch most my fighting games as recordings on the Internet, like most other Internet recordings, they should be porn.
so since you can draw an operational similarity between an nba broadcast and a tournament stream, the professional standard of one is the bottom line for the other?
Cross Counter is a late night talk show, the joke would be okay there?
a) Maybe if it was funny?
b)I don't see how the onus is on me to determine where it is appropriate as I am not the one arguing there's nothing wrong with what they said.
I'm not saying their offenses were egregious and warrant total dismissal. However, part of the debate has been about whether or not certain segment of FCG recognizes that there's a problem. Marn in particular wondered if wanting to reduce hateful and sexist remarks that meant he has to say butt instead of ass on stream which makes it obvious he doesn't fucking get it and prefers to be part of the core problem (overall ignorance) and not the solution. I think suspending him from commentary at least temporarily is a wise move for many reasons.
so since you can draw an operational similarity between an nba broadcast and a tournament stream, the professional standard of one is the bottom line for the other?
Cross Counter is a late night talk show, the joke would be okay there?
b)I don't see how the onus is on me to determine where it is appropriate as I am not the one arguing there's nothing wrong with what they said.
But here you are, telling everyone where it's not appropriate.
marn is definitely part of the problem, basically a spiteful person and not just an ignorant one. i wouldn't shed a single tear to never hear him on a mic again. he emphatically and purposefully does not get what is going on beyond 'someone is telling me what to do'
however, did what he said last night warrant everything thats happened as a result? no, I don't believe so
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
His name is Christian, he's a Street Fighter player who became embedded in the fighting game community because of his nice attitude and work ethic. He's done unpaid volunteer work for many tournaments, helping set up equipment for streams and players, directing tournament flow and running brackets, and also did a lot of informative and witty commentary work including big events such as So Cal Regionals.
I've personally known him to be a great person who wouldn't offend a fly.
my problem with the commentary last night was mostly with marn. it's not like he was telling "jokes". He was getting on the mic and shouting "harassment" in an increasingly condescending and sarcastic tone, as if the entire idea was ridiculous. He seems to think the idea that someone would call another person out for harassing them just absurd, and that was the core of his decidedly unclever jokes. Not very cool, especially so soon after what's gone on
and yes pulling up an covering the stream with a picture of the NOS girls and talking about which one you'll "take" is pretty creepy and not what i'm watching wednesday night fights to see.
so yeah it's unfortunate ERT was involved because he also gave some GOOD commentary last night but i have no qualms with marn being taken off the mic, because he spent the entire time being a jackass. SRK removing sponsorship seems harsh but i suppose they have to distance themselves from anything questionable considering all that's gone on.
Wow, Level Up banned those two commentators and SRK STILL pulled sponsorship?
I have no idea..wow. I mean, the banning was expected in the current environment. There's no way Level Up could let that slide in the current environment.
SRK coming and making examples of those two guys and WNF..... What about the guy running the stream? Did ETR / Marn pull up the NOS pic or did a Spooky-like person do it and they reacted to it?
It makes a lot of sense from SRK, though. WNF is, despite being hugely popular, still just a weekly. It's not a major. If you're going to make an impact an example of someone or a group of people, pick the "smallest" tournament that'll still be run without SRK sponsorship AND it sends a warning to all the majors.
From a ruthless point of view, it's a great idea. Still, WNF is like the posterchild, so it feels odd..
I dunno.
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XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
yeah the SRK business really surprises me because like you said it might not be a huge major or anything but... it's wednesday night fights. it's a big thing in the community
but again as you said it'd an event that can live without the sponsorship. better for hit to take the hit than a major that can't run without that money, i guess
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
however, did what he said last night warrant everything thats happened as a result? no, I don't believe so
As I said, I hope the ETR kid is given another opportunity and takes it. Marn on the other hand earned a suspension from commentating and shouldn't be doing it anyway because he's annoying and stupid.
Heart, you've mentioned several times that the commentating business in FGC isn't a professional atmosphere and thus shouldn't bring with it professional-level consequences. Well there are a lot of people within FGC that are trying to make it more professional because they consider it essential to growth and in my opinion a smart step in that direction is the introduction of consequences for bad behavior. A temporary suspension from Level|Up commentary isn't a huge consequence but it's tangible enough to turn some heads and let everyone know they're serious.
however, did what he said last night warrant everything thats happened as a result? no, I don't believe so
As I said, I hope the ETR kid is given another opportunity and takes it. Marn on the other hand earned a suspension from commentating and shouldn't be doing it anyway because he's annoying and stupid.
Heart, you've mentioned several times that the commentating business in FGC isn't a professional atmosphere and thus shouldn't bring with it professional-level consequences. Well there are a lot of people within FGC that are trying to make it more professional because they consider it essential to growth and in my opinion a smart step in that direction is the introduction of consequences for bad behavior. A temporary suspension from Level|Up commentary isn't a huge consequence but it's tangible enough to turn some heads and let everyone know they're serious.
Right, the professionalism just isn't there. Changing that is entirely another debate.
I personally don't think the comments were inappropriate. But LevelUp does and that's their decision. LevelUp is obviously a supporter of the change; I have no problem with that.
Just slap ETR on the wrist to set an example and give it a rest. What I'm not okay with is SRK's knee jerk reaction and pulling WNF's sponsorship.
a few different overheads
a command normal that hits overhead and a command normal that hits low. you can combo from either on hit. high/low/throw mixup off any jab
a counter that activates off anything but a jumpin
an srk
a godlike crossup
a bunch of other shit
hello i am playing heihachi and fuck you
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
a few different overheads
a command normal that hits overhead and a command normal that hits low. you can combo from either on hit. high/low/throw mixup off any jab
a counter that activates off anything but a jumpin
an srk
a godlike crossup
a bunch of other shit
hello i am playing heihachi and fuck you
I am playing Rolento you won't get past my stick
But yeah Heihachi seems like one of the stronger Tekken characters. I think the Tekken characters will be alright/strong once folks realize they're focused on quick overhead/low mixups, which 2D players aren't quite accustomed to.
Posts
There are some who feel the FGC should become fully clean eSports, while others say that it should be more like eSports Entertainment.
There are color commentators in sports entertainment. For example, Jerry "The King" Lawler in the WWE was known to run around shouting after puppies. It's a totally different environment than the NBA.
I think there's enough room to have both WWE style events and NBA style events, but the problem is distinguishing them.
Right. And that's for another debate. I'm not arguing over whether FGC should remain the same or change to fully clean eSports.
The point is that comparing the current state of FGC to the professionalism of the NBA is stupid because they are very different entities.
SteamID: Baroque And Roll
Oh I'd agree. I would imagine you'd get exactly the same type of scandal and sensationalism if cameras were suddenly turned on to the street ball community and viewers were expecting the same standards of behavior as in the NBA.
Not to mention the fact that "it was only a joke" is what started this whole fucking thing in the first place.
This is tragic. He is a really nice guy, lent me a strategy guide once and never stopped helping the community and volunteering his services in running tournaments time and time again.
It's like you're saying that only certain people should be allow to make jokes...
Obviously, people should be smart enough to know when it's appropriate to make a joke. But in this case, it was nothing more than a gigantic overreaction.
I see nothing wrong with what Marn and ETR said last night.
I agree this is unfortunate. A mild suspension was justified to make a statement. His resignation isn't necessary.
If comparing them is stupid than comparing FGC commentators to stand-up comics and late-night professionals is even more stupid as they have even less in common.
Oh and occasionally comedians get in trouble and apologize for poor judgement as well.
Strawman argument.
I didn't compare FGC commentators to standup comics anywhere.
EDIT: Knob brought up stand-up comics and you brought up the Daily Show.
God fucking damnit
It just seems filthy to be tossing volunteers on there then throwing them under a bus if they say something you don't like.
SteamID: Baroque And Roll
Him tendering his resignation from the community for a while is his own decision. No one can force that.
SteamID: Baroque And Roll
I didn't say that Marn or ETR should behave like Jon Stewart, and that they should be able to say whatever they want.
I'm saying that to expect a certain standard of professionalism from FGC at its current state is unrealistic. Given its current state of professionalism, the comments made by Marn and ETR were not inappropriate.
Cross Counter is a late night talk show, the joke would be okay there?
Oh god, reminds me of that Akuma I played against in ranked where 90% of his offense was runaway air fireball.
I won, but I really wanted to send him strongly worded message afterword.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
I watch most my fighting games as recordings on the Internet, like most other Internet recordings, they should be porn.
oh shit that's pretty soon, and i can get the world warrior gem pack...!
a) Maybe if it was funny?
b)I don't see how the onus is on me to determine where it is appropriate as I am not the one arguing there's nothing wrong with what they said.
I'm not saying their offenses were egregious and warrant total dismissal. However, part of the debate has been about whether or not certain segment of FCG recognizes that there's a problem. Marn in particular wondered if wanting to reduce hateful and sexist remarks that meant he has to say butt instead of ass on stream which makes it obvious he doesn't fucking get it and prefers to be part of the core problem (overall ignorance) and not the solution. I think suspending him from commentary at least temporarily is a wise move for many reasons.
the sixth
But here you are, telling everyone where it's not appropriate.
however, did what he said last night warrant everything thats happened as a result? no, I don't believe so
all of my fight money...
His name is Christian, he's a Street Fighter player who became embedded in the fighting game community because of his nice attitude and work ethic. He's done unpaid volunteer work for many tournaments, helping set up equipment for streams and players, directing tournament flow and running brackets, and also did a lot of informative and witty commentary work including big events such as So Cal Regionals.
I've personally known him to be a great person who wouldn't offend a fly.
and yes pulling up an covering the stream with a picture of the NOS girls and talking about which one you'll "take" is pretty creepy and not what i'm watching wednesday night fights to see.
so yeah it's unfortunate ERT was involved because he also gave some GOOD commentary last night but i have no qualms with marn being taken off the mic, because he spent the entire time being a jackass. SRK removing sponsorship seems harsh but i suppose they have to distance themselves from anything questionable considering all that's gone on.
I have no idea..wow. I mean, the banning was expected in the current environment. There's no way Level Up could let that slide in the current environment.
SRK coming and making examples of those two guys and WNF..... What about the guy running the stream? Did ETR / Marn pull up the NOS pic or did a Spooky-like person do it and they reacted to it?
It makes a lot of sense from SRK, though. WNF is, despite being hugely popular, still just a weekly. It's not a major. If you're going to make an impact an example of someone or a group of people, pick the "smallest" tournament that'll still be run without SRK sponsorship AND it sends a warning to all the majors.
From a ruthless point of view, it's a great idea. Still, WNF is like the posterchild, so it feels odd..
I dunno.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
but again as you said it'd an event that can live without the sponsorship. better for hit to take the hit than a major that can't run without that money, i guess
As I said, I hope the ETR kid is given another opportunity and takes it. Marn on the other hand earned a suspension from commentating and shouldn't be doing it anyway because he's annoying and stupid.
Heart, you've mentioned several times that the commentating business in FGC isn't a professional atmosphere and thus shouldn't bring with it professional-level consequences. Well there are a lot of people within FGC that are trying to make it more professional because they consider it essential to growth and in my opinion a smart step in that direction is the introduction of consequences for bad behavior. A temporary suspension from Level|Up commentary isn't a huge consequence but it's tangible enough to turn some heads and let everyone know they're serious.
Right, the professionalism just isn't there. Changing that is entirely another debate.
I personally don't think the comments were inappropriate. But LevelUp does and that's their decision. LevelUp is obviously a supporter of the change; I have no problem with that.
Just slap ETR on the wrist to set an example and give it a rest. What I'm not okay with is SRK's knee jerk reaction and pulling WNF's sponsorship.
heihachi has
a few different overheads
a command normal that hits overhead and a command normal that hits low. you can combo from either on hit. high/low/throw mixup off any jab
a counter that activates off anything but a jumpin
an srk
a godlike crossup
a bunch of other shit
hello i am playing heihachi and fuck you
Hot damn Mitsuru.
I am playing Rolento you won't get past my stick
But yeah Heihachi seems like one of the stronger Tekken characters. I think the Tekken characters will be alright/strong once folks realize they're focused on quick overhead/low mixups, which 2D players aren't quite accustomed to.