Yeah, ARM doesn't have USB3.0 interfaces built in to any of their chipsets. As far as I know, the only ARM processor around that does have USB3.0 support is Samsung's Exynos 5 SoC, which they announced in early August.
Microsoft is asserting that their screen is focused on contrast rather than resolution, which leads to a very sharp display regardless:
Hey this is Stevie. Screen resolution is one component of perceived detail. The true measure of resolvability of a screen called Modulation Transfer Function (MTF), not Pixels. MTF is a combination of both contrast and resolution. There are over a dozen subsystems that effect this MTF number.. Most folks just focus on one number out of dozens that effect perceived detail. Without good contrast resolution decreases. Check out contrast sensitivity of the human eye graph (http://www.telescope-optics.net/images/eye_contrast.PNG) and if you want more see the links below. Basically, as resolution/DPI increases the eye has becomes less sensitive. So as a result, the amount of light in a room and the reflections off the screen have a huge effect on the contrast of the display. In fact, a small amount of reflection can greatly reduce contrast and thus the perceived resolution of the display. With the ClearType Display technology we took a 3 pronged approach to maximize that perceived resolution and optimize for battery life, weight, and thickness. First prong, Microsoft has the best pixel rendering technology in the industry (cleartype 1.0 and 2.0) .. these are exclusive and unique to Windows, it smooths text regardless of pixel count. Second, we designed a custom 10.6” high-contrast wide-angle screen LCD screen. Lastly we optically bonded the screen with the thinnest optical stack anywhere on the market.. something which is more commonly done on phones we are doing on Surface. While this is not official, our current Cleartype measurements on the amount of light reflected off the screen is around 5.5%-6.2%, the new IPad has a measurement of 9.9% mirror reflections (see the displaymate link: http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_ShootOut_1.htm). Doing a side by side with the new iPad in a consistently lit room, we have had many people see more detail on Surface RT than on the Ipad with more resolution.
Some more links to share if you want to know more… (http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF.html)... Also This is a great book to read if you really want to get into it: http://www.amazon.com/Contrast-Sensitivity-Effects-Quality-Monograph/dp/0819434965 or more here http://alexandria.tue.nl/extra2/9901043.pdf
Personally, I don't think it's a huge deal if they didn't acquire an ultrahigh resolution screen in favor of maintaining great battery life, but really it's something I'll have to see in person.
As far as USB to ethernet -- that'd be a feature that no other tablet on market has either, so I can't say I'd consider it a big deal.
I've got a healthy enough dose of skepticism about the product myself, but I don't think any one feature on the device is a dealbreaker. Gotta take the whole thing in and see if the little things that aren't perfect are outweighed by the things they appear to have gotten right on the device.
There are android usb to ethernet adapters, work on any version of android over 3.2 . it's just that very few android tablets have USB. As to the resolution/battery, the RT is heavier than an ipad 3, but has a smaller battery/gets worse battery life, with a much lower res screen, so they can't really claim (and expect to be believed) that they kept in down for battery reasons.
I dunno maybe i'm just jaded and bitter now but it seems like they're outclassed by their competition apart from the keyboard cover, and the things they could have done easily to make up for it and make it more appealing to business users they just..didn't.
As to the surface pro, i dunno. I personally *don't* want a notebook processor and a full on windows 8 install in that form factor, given the weight it adds to the device, so that's not appealing to me either.
... It forces you to relearn the simplest tasks, like how to shut down your PC. (No, seriously; there's no more Start menu, so to shut down, you have to venture into the Settings menu. Seriously.) ...
That's hilarious. I don't think I've rebooted/shutdown a machine using any method other than Ctrl+Alt+Del since Win 2K, excepting when I'm RDP'ed in of course. BTW Ctrl+Alt+Del still works.
Surface RT seems directly targeted at the iPad. Big PC OEMs should be having Win 8 Pro tablets in the pipeline, but I think it's up to the HTC's and Samsungs to be putting out lower priced WinRT devices. I'm hoping Win 8/RT is successful enough that we see a lot of market segmentation, and then maybe MS will release a domain-joinable WinRT build. I'd really like to see a 7" domain-joined tablet with a lite version of office and full outlook integration for under $400.
Preorders are open. Word is that Microsoft is producing 5 million for the quarter.
Geeze, I really want to replace my old HP Pavillion, even if I just replace the screen....
At least when resisting temptation, I can remember that they're less likely to be sold out. At least, I think that's the case.
EDIT: I've been terribly ignorant on the matter--these particular tablets are purpose-designed for Windows RT, and once Windows 8 rolls out, presumably they will put out tablets that take advantage of that?
Let me be blunt: As a desktop operating system, Windows 8 blows. It's completely unintuitive. It forces you to relearn the simplest tasks, like how to shut down your PC. (No, seriously; there's no more Start menu, so to shut down, you have to venture into the Settings menu. Seriously.) And from what I've seen so far, it offers no clear-cut advantages over Windows 7. Quite the opposite: I think it'll put most PC users at a disadvantage.
Power and account options are grouped with other system controls, like volume and brightness? How unintuitive! Obviously they should be with the applications, since they're totally the same thing!
I mean jesus... the general interface has been the same since 1995. I think after 17 years they should be allowed to update it.
I agree, but when you do that you gotta anticipate that you're going to confuse a lot of casual users (depending on the degree to which you go in changing the UI/UX). I think MS went preeeeeetty far into "where the hell did everything I knew about the Windows UI/UX go" territory. I know I was confused, and I spend all day, every day on a Windows box. They friggin' shoe-horned a tablet-interface into a desktop OS, and for the life of me I dunno why.
I think a lot of us look at this from a power-user's perspective. If I put this on my dad's laptop he'd be confused as fuck, and I would be very surprised if a lot of you couldn't say the same.
A lot of this could have been solved by Microsoft offering a somewhat-in-depth tutorial/video after setup about where the hell the Start Menu went, what this crazy full-of-tiles screen is, and how searching is awesome, please for the love of God just hit Win and type what you're looking for. I'm still flabbergasted they didn't do this.
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
There are two versions of the tablet, the Surface RT, and the Surface Pro. The RT is launching first, the Pro is coming later. Hopefully before Christmas?
There are two versions of the tablet, the Surface RT, and the Surface Pro. The RT is launching first, the Pro is coming later. Hopefully before Christmas?
That's what I thought. Tablets are still a novelty for me--what I want is a replacement laptop (and as everyone walks around with superthin laptops, I wouldn't mind one of those). Which means holding out for 64-bit Surface Pro.
0
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
That's my plan - I see the pro as kind of a cross between an ultrabook and a tablet.
Let me be blunt: As a desktop operating system, Windows 8 blows. It's completely unintuitive. It forces you to relearn the simplest tasks, like how to shut down your PC. (No, seriously; there's no more Start menu, so to shut down, you have to venture into the Settings menu. Seriously.) And from what I've seen so far, it offers no clear-cut advantages over Windows 7. Quite the opposite: I think it'll put most PC users at a disadvantage.
Power and account options are grouped with other system controls, like volume and brightness? How unintuitive! Obviously they should be with the applications, since they're totally the same thing!
I mean jesus... the general interface has been the same since 1995. I think after 17 years they should be allowed to update it.
I agree, but when you do that you gotta anticipate that you're going to confuse a lot of casual users (depending on the degree to which you go in changing the UI/UX). I think MS went preeeeeetty far into "where the hell did everything I knew about the Windows UI/UX go" territory. I know I was confused, and I spend all day, every day on a Windows box. They friggin' shoe-horned a tablet-interface into a desktop OS, and for the life of me I dunno why.
I think a lot of us look at this from a power-user's perspective. If I put this on my dad's laptop he'd be confused as fuck, and I would be very surprised if a lot of you couldn't say the same.
A lot of this could have been solved by Microsoft offering a somewhat-in-depth tutorial/video after setup about where the hell the Start Menu went, what this crazy full-of-tiles screen is, and how searching is awesome, please for the love of God just hit Win and type what you're looking for. I'm still flabbergasted they didn't do this.
I've heard that during setup, it goes through a video tutorial of how to use the new start screen and full screen apps. People who have gotten early copies have been able to be shown by their kids how to use it after they watched the tutorial during setup.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
edited October 2012
As an IT guy, I am far less worried about how a kid will react to change as I am a 50 year old administrative assistant will.
The reason people were pissed at Ribbon is not because Ribbon was a step backwards; it was just such a drastically new metaphor for UX on a program that hundreds of millions of people around the world rely on every day who are NOT computer literate people. And the UX change coincided with a file format change which forced people to upgrade to remain compatible with the rest of the world. It was a trainwreck.
Hopefully they handle this drastic change better, though I suspect Windows 7 will have as long a tail as XP did. Windows 7 is loved by the computing world at large and has widespread support.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
@Synthesis the difference between Windows RT and Windows 8 Pro comes down to which processor they are running on. A Windows 8 Pro device will need to have an x86 processor architecture (that doesn't mean it is not 64 bit, I would think all machines that ship win8 Pro are going to support, and ship with, an x64 OS).
Win RT is the Windows OS compiled to run on ARM processor architecture (called "Windows on ARM" during development, this OS should be able to run on current predominant tablet processor architecture - a 100+ million device/year market that will eclipse PC sales within 2 years, for those wondering why MS "tabletized" their flagship OS).
Actually we've seen a lot more of Windows 8 Pro than Windows RT, but you can be sure that right now there are early production or engineering samples of dozens of devices that run either OS being vetted by MS and by OEMs hoping to release them for Oct. 26th and also for holiday season. Most of your newer released tablets or slates can probably run Win8 and are being qualified, there may be driver or UEFI issues.
Much as I want to buy a Surface out of the gate, I don't think I will as I'll want a couple months of real testing (millions of units in production) to make my decision. Besides Zunes and Xbox's, MS don't make many devices, so not sure how they will deliver. It could be a home run ... or not. Regardless MS has to put out something and stand by it now that they've announced something; it may be a loss leader. Also until I can type on it, I assume my main machine will always be a notebook\ultrabook as I'd prefer it to a tablet+bluetooth keyboard. That said I like Win8 even on a laptop.
Let me be blunt: As a desktop operating system, Windows 8 blows. It's completely unintuitive. It forces you to relearn the simplest tasks, like how to shut down your PC. (No, seriously; there's no more Start menu, so to shut down, you have to venture into the Settings menu. Seriously.) And from what I've seen so far, it offers no clear-cut advantages over Windows 7. Quite the opposite: I think it'll put most PC users at a disadvantage.
Power and account options are grouped with other system controls, like volume and brightness? How unintuitive! Obviously they should be with the applications, since they're totally the same thing!
I mean jesus... the general interface has been the same since 1995. I think after 17 years they should be allowed to update it.
I agree, but when you do that you gotta anticipate that you're going to confuse a lot of casual users (depending on the degree to which you go in changing the UI/UX). I think MS went preeeeeetty far into "where the hell did everything I knew about the Windows UI/UX go" territory. I know I was confused, and I spend all day, every day on a Windows box. They friggin' shoe-horned a tablet-interface into a desktop OS, and for the life of me I dunno why.
I think a lot of us look at this from a power-user's perspective. If I put this on my dad's laptop he'd be confused as fuck, and I would be very surprised if a lot of you couldn't say the same.
A lot of this could have been solved by Microsoft offering a somewhat-in-depth tutorial/video after setup about where the hell the Start Menu went, what this crazy full-of-tiles screen is, and how searching is awesome, please for the love of God just hit Win and type what you're looking for. I'm still flabbergasted they didn't do this.
I've heard that during setup, it goes through a video tutorial of how to use the new start screen and full screen apps. People who have gotten early copies have been able to be shown by their kids how to use it after they watched the tutorial during setup.
Using the RTM version now, and there is a video after creating a new account but it's extremely basic. It only shows how to bring up the charms bar by moving the mouse into the corner (and swiping in from the edge, if it detects you have a touch screen.)
This is it. (Again, the first bit about swiping doesn't play if you don't have a touch screen.) It plays while stuff is being setup in the background, so it loops until that's ready.
It does say "into any corner" or "from any edge", but it only demonstrates the charms bar - you'd basically have to figure out the new multi-tasker (left edge) and App bar (bottom edge) yourself.
I've heard that during setup, it goes through a video tutorial of how to use the new start screen and full screen apps. People who have gotten early copies have been able to be shown by their kids how to use it after they watched the tutorial during setup.
It does show you a video (thanks to @Ayulin for posting it), but it's neigh upon worthless. "Move your mouse into any corner." To do what? For what purpose? What options am I given when I do that? What do those do? Watch the darn thing. I also love how they START with "Swipe in from any edge." Thanks for helping convince me putting this interface in a desktop-OS wasn't an afterthought, MS. :?
@Synthesis the difference between Windows RT and Windows 8 Pro comes down to which processor they are running on. A Windows 8 Pro device will need to have an x86 processor architecture (that doesn't mean it is not 64 bit, I would think all machines that ship win8 Pro are going to support, and ship with, an x64 OS).
Win RT is the Windows OS compiled to run on ARM processor architecture (called "Windows on ARM" during development, this OS should be able to run on current predominant tablet processor architecture - a 100+ million device/year market that will eclipse PC sales within 2 years, for those wondering why MS "tabletized" their flagship OS).
Actually we've seen a lot more of Windows 8 Pro than Windows RT, but you can be sure that right now there are early production or engineering samples of dozens of devices that run either OS being vetted by MS and by OEMs hoping to release them for Oct. 26th and also for holiday season. Most of your newer released tablets or slates can probably run Win8 and are being qualified, there may be driver or UEFI issues.
Much as I want to buy a Surface out of the gate, I don't think I will as I'll want a couple months of real testing (millions of units in production) to make my decision. Besides Zunes and Xbox's, MS don't make many devices, so not sure how they will deliver. It could be a home run ... or not. Regardless MS has to put out something and stand by it now that they've announced something; it may be a loss leader. Also until I can type on it, I assume my main machine will always be a notebook\ultrabook as I'd prefer it to a tablet+bluetooth keyboard. That said I like Win8 even on a laptop.
I could be totally wrong here, but I was under the impression that 8 would have program continuity (as much as before) with Windows 7. RT would count on a particular app marketplace, by contrast.
I have bought a lot of Microsoft hardware, and have for coming on 15 years now--keyboards, joysticks, drives, video game consoles and phones. Overall, I'm extremely pleased, even factoring the hiccups, with hardware quality (even if software quality could be better!). So I don't share your concerns, and am more interested in the established differences between 8 and RT.
Microsoft actually does produce quite a lot of hardware (mostly peripherals, admittedly), and the only truly bad piece of hardware that I can remember them turning out was the original Xbox 360. They look to have put a lot more effort on the Surface's hardware than they did on, say, the Zune HD, which was a fantastic piece of hardware.
RT cannot be joined to a domain and does not support RDP.
That right there is cause to wait.
From what i've read microsoft just worded it wrong, RT has an RDP Client, it just can't be an RDP Host. As to the domain thing...ehhh..As someone who works in IT consulting (right now I manage about 20 domains for different companies, doing high level management/architecture planning etc) i can't fathom why any end user would want to be able to join it to a domain. Just setup cached credentials for the servers so you're not constantly getting password prompted and boom, you have virtually the same access as being domain joined with the companies ability to control your computer. From an IT perspective, eh. Activesync has gotten good enough we don't really see the need for portable devices to be domain joined
Win 8 will support most Win7 apps ("most" in the same way 7/Vista supported most XP apps). RT will rely on the marketplace, but there is a desktop mode that gives you access to file explorer (or Explorer or Windows Explorer as it's known currently). That said, this does not seem to be a technical limitation of Windows on ARM, but an enforced limitation by Microsoft. I think the window is being left open for additional segmentation (e.g. Windows "desktop" apps to be eventually supported in some "Pro" level of WinRT), though I think MS wants a successful mass deployment and lots of device support before we get there; this is speculation on my part (and MS is telegraphing RT to be a non-corporate solution).
Basically, if you want a corporate Windows laptop (runs legacy apps, can be joined to a domain, does RDP, etc.) shoved into a tablet form factor you're probably going to have to drop at least $700 (bottom price of an ultrabook developed by large OEM, so I think they can get a tablet there if they produced in decent volume) or $1K (Surface Pro).
I've heard that during setup, it goes through a video tutorial of how to use the new start screen and full screen apps. People who have gotten early copies have been able to be shown by their kids how to use it after they watched the tutorial during setup.
It does show you a video (thanks to @Ayulin for posting it), but it's neigh upon worthless. "Move your mouse into any corner." To do what? For what purpose? What options am I given when I do that? What do those do? Watch the darn thing. I also love how they START with "Swipe in from any edge." Thanks for helping convince me putting this interface in a desktop-OS wasn't an afterthought, MS. :?
Yeah I absolutlly agree that not including a proper demo video is just foolhardy.
Like some exec had to of gotten butthurt at the suggesustion. "The new interface is intuituve! We don't need a video!" Like... even if t is intuitive from an outside perspective, the only thing that's intuitive for your users right now is the same thing they've been doing for 17 years.
I will be shocked if a video series doesn't get made within a few months of launch.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Some of you have pointed out that many users won’t discover that they can simply type to start searching in the Start screen. Search is closely associated with typing— the most common pattern to search in the Start menu is to bring up the Start menu by using the Windows key or by clicking the Start button and typing. That exact and efficient behavior is preserved in Windows 8 as we have observed and found that pattern is what users care about most. Our experience in user tests, and even when people at //build/ tried the Develop Preview for the first time, shows that people tend to serendipitously discover this feature early in using Windows 8, and so we're confident it will not be a hindrance to usability. Nevertheless the Search charm is highly visible, and selecting it shows the Search box.
I'm not defending that decision, but that's what they've asserted.
Microsoft actually does produce quite a lot of hardware (mostly peripherals, admittedly), and the only truly bad piece of hardware that I can remember them turning out was the original Xbox 360. They look to have put a lot more effort on the Surface's hardware than they did on, say, the Zune HD, which was a fantastic piece of hardware.
I had good luck on my near-launch Xbox 360...though it was "near-launch" and "good" is a relative term (it was better than my PS2, but seeing how that had a class action lawsuit, that's probably not a flattering comparison). But between Microsoft's keyboards and mice, the Force Feedback line, the two Zunes I own, the various Xbox 360 peripherals and the original Xbox (and all the stuff I got with that), I'm extremely pleased with hardware. Software would be different, but in terms of reliability, I don't think I could be much more pleased in 15 years. I can't say quite the same about HP or Dell or Apple, certainly.
Really, I think I just don't want to deal with the jarring transition from 7 to RT versus from 7 to 8. Having a slightly thicker tablet overall doesn't seem like a serious problem (and it's a higher price I'd probably be willing to pay) especially if it means a second USB port or something like that.
From a visible design standpoint (that is, the software and exterior/visible parts), there wasn't anything wrong with the Xbox 360. By bad design, I'm pretty much only referring to the botched internal cooling design.
I'm more worried about this: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/179420/
quote from the article:
"The problem begins with the Windows Store. If the name makes it sound like the Apple App Store, that's because it essentially is the Apple App Store. It's a centralized distribution mechanism that Microsoft controls which allows end users to purchase software from a catalog of titles explicitly approved by Microsoft.
This, by itself, might not be all that bad. There are valid arguments against the owners of a platform controlling the default marketplace for that platform, but if the platform allows people to develop and distribute software freely outside the store, then other companies can bypass the store altogether. Developers can distribute their software through other channels, or even provide competing stores, reducing via healthy competition the danger of abuse or obstruction by the platform owner.
However, it is clear from Microsoft's publications on Windows 8 that in order to participate in the new user interface, you must distribute your application through the Windows Store. That means as of October, Microsoft itself will become the sole source of software for everything you run on a Windows machine that isn't relegated to the older desktop ecosystem. Unlike the historical transition from MS-DOS to the Windows GUI, although the old platform (the Windows desktop) will likely remain open, the new platform (the Windows 8 UI) will be closed. This will put Microsoft in a wholly new monopoly position: that of sole software distributor for the majority of the world's desktops.
Now, this is apparently a point of some contention. Perhaps because Microsoft has not made a bigger deal about it in their press releases, not everyone believes that distributing software for the modern UI will require developers to get Microsoft's permission. But they are wrong. In order to set the record straight once and for all, a complete, thoroughly researched analysis of Microsoft's official publications on the subject is included as Appendix B to this article. It demonstrates that there is no method for developers to distribute modern UI applications to the internet at large without receiving explicit approval from Microsoft."
That's been known since they first announced details on the store. The only exception is enterprises, which have a path to internally deploy apps.
Technically speaking, you can sideload things easily enough, but it requires authorizing your PC as a developer machine (which disables quite a bit of security), and having access to the project files for the app.
I also wouldn't be surprised if that gets relaxed a few years down the line. Obviously Win RT apps will always need to be through the store, that'd pretty reasonable. People will accept ARM hardware being locked down. So if they get enough of the ARM devices out there then they'll get plenty of metro development and windows store use. Once that ecosystem's healty, and there's and there's a large number of devices that must use the store, I can see them opening up the x86(-64) side.
And really, if they want their new interface to be popular, they should encourage people to tinker with it and build stupid little apps.
EDIT: Okay maybe not likely.. but it could happen!
Aioua on
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
@Stormwatcher while you can't have a metro live tile without going through the store, there's nothing preventing you from pinning a traditional desktop app to the start screen. I believe you can compile your installer to do that by default.
@Stormwatcher while you can't have a metro live tile without going through the store, there's nothing preventing you from pinning a traditional desktop app to the start screen. I believe you can compile your installer to do that by default.
Yep, it uses the same process that you would use to place a shortcut on the old start menu, so applications made for Windows 7 are already compatible. It's also worth stressing that the Windows Store distribution restriction ONLY applies to Windows 8 apps, not x86/x64 programs.
Apple would have to do it first, methinks. And businesses would have none of it. Enterprise IT needs the machines to be customizable.
Also, we still have a command line.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
It seems like the people who are upset about not being able to distribute Metro apps without going through the Store are often the same people who don't like Metro at all. This makes no sense to me. Just don't use it and distribute your apps however you want, right?
I think that fear may be largely unfounded. Legacy app support is pretty key for flagship MS OS.
Insane legacy app support. I think almost all of us have tried, and succeeded, in getting Windows 3.11 or MS-DOS programs running in 7 at one point or another.
Earlier I heard someone (possibly in this thread) mention a serious problem with Surface was the following: Microsoft had failed to deliver an efficient docking device.
Having thought about this a bit, I'm not sure this is all that dramatic a problem:
1) Does the iPad have a docking station? Obviously, it does for things like external noncrappy speakers, but that's not the issue here. Can you actually dock an iPad into a device that lets you switch over to desktop peripherals and a separate monitor?
2) Microsoft is not precisely the same company. For starters, they don't manufacture desktops--it's just that all desktop manufacturers (with a notable exception) use their operating system (and all manufacturers without exception now use some form of their software in general). Wouldn't a dock entail something to that effect? We already know Surface has VGA and HDMI out, and comes with a keyboard cover, which means you can pretty easily achieve a similar result.
I don't know if it's a problem, but a docking station does sound like something that'd be nice to have. You could have keyboard, mouse, and monitor hooked up to the station and just dock the Surface (Pro), and just undock when you want to go out.
The one thing I do wonder about Surface Pro is how well it holds up as a laptop - the kickstand seems like it might be kind of iffy to set up on your lap (whether or not there's even enough space to do so) and it holds the screen at a fixed angle. I know it's not supposed to be a laptop, but it'd be even more awesome if it could replace one completely.
I don't think the kickstand will work on your lap unless you have some really rigid pants, and given the nature of tablets, I don't think Microsoft cares. Same for Surface RT. As it happens, I want to use it as a pure replacement for a laptop, but that could be just as easy as "set it on the back of the briefcase you carry it in." The thing is so light and small compared to a laptop with the same screen size, you could probably use a paper notebook with a stiff cover or something like that pretty effectively.
At first I was all WTF? But if you look at it more like a portable all-in-one it's not so crazy.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
At first I was all WTF? But if you look at it more like a portable all-in-one it's not so crazy.
20 seems like such a crazy size.
15-17 seems like something much more reasonable, and able to actually carry around in you needed to, most backpacks or messenger bags just won't fit a 20 inch device.
on the other hand the screen size is nice if you want to put it in a kitchen or something like that and never unplug it. and the price isn't bad for an all-in-one.
Posts
I dunno maybe i'm just jaded and bitter now but it seems like they're outclassed by their competition apart from the keyboard cover, and the things they could have done easily to make up for it and make it more appealing to business users they just..didn't.
As to the surface pro, i dunno. I personally *don't* want a notebook processor and a full on windows 8 install in that form factor, given the weight it adds to the device, so that's not appealing to me either.
That's hilarious. I don't think I've rebooted/shutdown a machine using any method other than Ctrl+Alt+Del since Win 2K, excepting when I'm RDP'ed in of course. BTW Ctrl+Alt+Del still works.
Surface RT seems directly targeted at the iPad. Big PC OEMs should be having Win 8 Pro tablets in the pipeline, but I think it's up to the HTC's and Samsungs to be putting out lower priced WinRT devices. I'm hoping Win 8/RT is successful enough that we see a lot of market segmentation, and then maybe MS will release a domain-joinable WinRT build. I'd really like to see a 7" domain-joined tablet with a lite version of office and full outlook integration for under $400.
Geeze, I really want to replace my old HP Pavillion, even if I just replace the screen....
At least when resisting temptation, I can remember that they're less likely to be sold out. At least, I think that's the case.
EDIT: I've been terribly ignorant on the matter--these particular tablets are purpose-designed for Windows RT, and once Windows 8 rolls out, presumably they will put out tablets that take advantage of that?
I agree, but when you do that you gotta anticipate that you're going to confuse a lot of casual users (depending on the degree to which you go in changing the UI/UX). I think MS went preeeeeetty far into "where the hell did everything I knew about the Windows UI/UX go" territory. I know I was confused, and I spend all day, every day on a Windows box. They friggin' shoe-horned a tablet-interface into a desktop OS, and for the life of me I dunno why.
I think a lot of us look at this from a power-user's perspective. If I put this on my dad's laptop he'd be confused as fuck, and I would be very surprised if a lot of you couldn't say the same.
A lot of this could have been solved by Microsoft offering a somewhat-in-depth tutorial/video after setup about where the hell the Start Menu went, what this crazy full-of-tiles screen is, and how searching is awesome, please for the love of God just hit Win and type what you're looking for. I'm still flabbergasted they didn't do this.
That's what I thought. Tablets are still a novelty for me--what I want is a replacement laptop (and as everyone walks around with superthin laptops, I wouldn't mind one of those). Which means holding out for 64-bit Surface Pro.
I've heard that during setup, it goes through a video tutorial of how to use the new start screen and full screen apps. People who have gotten early copies have been able to be shown by their kids how to use it after they watched the tutorial during setup.
The reason people were pissed at Ribbon is not because Ribbon was a step backwards; it was just such a drastically new metaphor for UX on a program that hundreds of millions of people around the world rely on every day who are NOT computer literate people. And the UX change coincided with a file format change which forced people to upgrade to remain compatible with the rest of the world. It was a trainwreck.
Hopefully they handle this drastic change better, though I suspect Windows 7 will have as long a tail as XP did. Windows 7 is loved by the computing world at large and has widespread support.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Win RT is the Windows OS compiled to run on ARM processor architecture (called "Windows on ARM" during development, this OS should be able to run on current predominant tablet processor architecture - a 100+ million device/year market that will eclipse PC sales within 2 years, for those wondering why MS "tabletized" their flagship OS).
Actually we've seen a lot more of Windows 8 Pro than Windows RT, but you can be sure that right now there are early production or engineering samples of dozens of devices that run either OS being vetted by MS and by OEMs hoping to release them for Oct. 26th and also for holiday season. Most of your newer released tablets or slates can probably run Win8 and are being qualified, there may be driver or UEFI issues.
Much as I want to buy a Surface out of the gate, I don't think I will as I'll want a couple months of real testing (millions of units in production) to make my decision. Besides Zunes and Xbox's, MS don't make many devices, so not sure how they will deliver. It could be a home run ... or not. Regardless MS has to put out something and stand by it now that they've announced something; it may be a loss leader. Also until I can type on it, I assume my main machine will always be a notebook\ultrabook as I'd prefer it to a tablet+bluetooth keyboard. That said I like Win8 even on a laptop.
Using the RTM version now, and there is a video after creating a new account but it's extremely basic. It only shows how to bring up the charms bar by moving the mouse into the corner (and swiping in from the edge, if it detects you have a touch screen.)
This is it. (Again, the first bit about swiping doesn't play if you don't have a touch screen.) It plays while stuff is being setup in the background, so it loops until that's ready.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oEUunlvWR58
It does say "into any corner" or "from any edge", but it only demonstrates the charms bar - you'd basically have to figure out the new multi-tasker (left edge) and App bar (bottom edge) yourself.
It does show you a video (thanks to @Ayulin for posting it), but it's neigh upon worthless. "Move your mouse into any corner." To do what? For what purpose? What options am I given when I do that? What do those do? Watch the darn thing. I also love how they START with "Swipe in from any edge." Thanks for helping convince me putting this interface in a desktop-OS wasn't an afterthought, MS. :?
I could be totally wrong here, but I was under the impression that 8 would have program continuity (as much as before) with Windows 7. RT would count on a particular app marketplace, by contrast.
I have bought a lot of Microsoft hardware, and have for coming on 15 years now--keyboards, joysticks, drives, video game consoles and phones. Overall, I'm extremely pleased, even factoring the hiccups, with hardware quality (even if software quality could be better!). So I don't share your concerns, and am more interested in the established differences between 8 and RT.
That right there is cause to wait.
From what i've read microsoft just worded it wrong, RT has an RDP Client, it just can't be an RDP Host. As to the domain thing...ehhh..As someone who works in IT consulting (right now I manage about 20 domains for different companies, doing high level management/architecture planning etc) i can't fathom why any end user would want to be able to join it to a domain. Just setup cached credentials for the servers so you're not constantly getting password prompted and boom, you have virtually the same access as being domain joined with the companies ability to control your computer. From an IT perspective, eh. Activesync has gotten good enough we don't really see the need for portable devices to be domain joined
Basically, if you want a corporate Windows laptop (runs legacy apps, can be joined to a domain, does RDP, etc.) shoved into a tablet form factor you're probably going to have to drop at least $700 (bottom price of an ultrabook developed by large OEM, so I think they can get a tablet there if they produced in decent volume) or $1K (Surface Pro).
Yeah I absolutlly agree that not including a proper demo video is just foolhardy.
Like some exec had to of gotten butthurt at the suggesustion. "The new interface is intuituve! We don't need a video!" Like... even if t is intuitive from an outside perspective, the only thing that's intuitive for your users right now is the same thing they've been doing for 17 years.
I will be shocked if a video series doesn't get made within a few months of launch.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
From way back in Developer Preview:
I'm not defending that decision, but that's what they've asserted.
I had good luck on my near-launch Xbox 360...though it was "near-launch" and "good" is a relative term (it was better than my PS2, but seeing how that had a class action lawsuit, that's probably not a flattering comparison). But between Microsoft's keyboards and mice, the Force Feedback line, the two Zunes I own, the various Xbox 360 peripherals and the original Xbox (and all the stuff I got with that), I'm extremely pleased with hardware. Software would be different, but in terms of reliability, I don't think I could be much more pleased in 15 years. I can't say quite the same about HP or Dell or Apple, certainly.
Really, I think I just don't want to deal with the jarring transition from 7 to RT versus from 7 to 8. Having a slightly thicker tablet overall doesn't seem like a serious problem (and it's a higher price I'd probably be willing to pay) especially if it means a second USB port or something like that.
quote from the article:
"The problem begins with the Windows Store. If the name makes it sound like the Apple App Store, that's because it essentially is the Apple App Store. It's a centralized distribution mechanism that Microsoft controls which allows end users to purchase software from a catalog of titles explicitly approved by Microsoft.
This, by itself, might not be all that bad. There are valid arguments against the owners of a platform controlling the default marketplace for that platform, but if the platform allows people to develop and distribute software freely outside the store, then other companies can bypass the store altogether. Developers can distribute their software through other channels, or even provide competing stores, reducing via healthy competition the danger of abuse or obstruction by the platform owner.
However, it is clear from Microsoft's publications on Windows 8 that in order to participate in the new user interface, you must distribute your application through the Windows Store. That means as of October, Microsoft itself will become the sole source of software for everything you run on a Windows machine that isn't relegated to the older desktop ecosystem. Unlike the historical transition from MS-DOS to the Windows GUI, although the old platform (the Windows desktop) will likely remain open, the new platform (the Windows 8 UI) will be closed. This will put Microsoft in a wholly new monopoly position: that of sole software distributor for the majority of the world's desktops.
Now, this is apparently a point of some contention. Perhaps because Microsoft has not made a bigger deal about it in their press releases, not everyone believes that distributing software for the modern UI will require developers to get Microsoft's permission. But they are wrong. In order to set the record straight once and for all, a complete, thoroughly researched analysis of Microsoft's official publications on the subject is included as Appendix B to this article. It demonstrates that there is no method for developers to distribute modern UI applications to the internet at large without receiving explicit approval from Microsoft."
Technically speaking, you can sideload things easily enough, but it requires authorizing your PC as a developer machine (which disables quite a bit of security), and having access to the project files for the app.
And really, if they want their new interface to be popular, they should encourage people to tinker with it and build stupid little apps.
EDIT: Okay maybe not likely.. but it could happen!
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Yep, it uses the same process that you would use to place a shortcut on the old start menu, so applications made for Windows 7 are already compatible. It's also worth stressing that the Windows Store distribution restriction ONLY applies to Windows 8 apps, not x86/x64 programs.
Also, we still have a command line.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Insane legacy app support. I think almost all of us have tried, and succeeded, in getting Windows 3.11 or MS-DOS programs running in 7 at one point or another.
Having thought about this a bit, I'm not sure this is all that dramatic a problem:
1) Does the iPad have a docking station? Obviously, it does for things like external noncrappy speakers, but that's not the issue here. Can you actually dock an iPad into a device that lets you switch over to desktop peripherals and a separate monitor?
2) Microsoft is not precisely the same company. For starters, they don't manufacture desktops--it's just that all desktop manufacturers (with a notable exception) use their operating system (and all manufacturers without exception now use some form of their software in general). Wouldn't a dock entail something to that effect? We already know Surface has VGA and HDMI out, and comes with a keyboard cover, which means you can pretty easily achieve a similar result.
Just some thoughts on that.
The one thing I do wonder about Surface Pro is how well it holds up as a laptop - the kickstand seems like it might be kind of iffy to set up on your lap (whether or not there's even enough space to do so) and it holds the screen at a fixed angle. I know it's not supposed to be a laptop, but it'd be even more awesome if it could replace one completely.
At first I was all WTF? But if you look at it more like a portable all-in-one it's not so crazy.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
20 seems like such a crazy size.
15-17 seems like something much more reasonable, and able to actually carry around in you needed to, most backpacks or messenger bags just won't fit a 20 inch device.
on the other hand the screen size is nice if you want to put it in a kitchen or something like that and never unplug it. and the price isn't bad for an all-in-one.