The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Should I complain?
Kyougu
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I run a Meetup and had originally scheduled a dining and drink event at a local bar that's known for both those things for tonight. I gone there before and never had a bad experience, and I was happy when they were able to accomodate the group (originally 20) when I reserved a table a month ago. I was even more pleased when I called a couple of weeks later to see if they could add 5 more and they said no problem.
Well today I call to confirm the RSVP and get a surprise. First somehow they had my group down for happy hour and not actually a table, but they said that wouldn't be a problem. The real problem is that the restaurant is closing at 8:30 for a private party. Luckily my event starts at six, but I was really planning on staying there till about 10 or 11 with everyone else.
I was never told about this event when I made the reservation, or even given a heads up about on the follow up call. It really throws a wrench in my plans, makes me look bad to any new members of my meetup and now I'm dreading a rushed dinner (too late to cancel).
So should I complain? If so, what's the best way to do where I don't come off as an ass. Truthfully the only reason I would debate complaining is to get some sort of compesation/mea culpa. Free apetizer or something. Would that be out of line? I generally try to avoid being the asshole/indignant customer, having worked plenty of customer service roles before.
Well today I call to confirm the RSVP and get a surprise. First somehow they had my group down for happy hour and not actually a table, but they said that wouldn't be a problem. The real problem is that the restaurant is closing at 8:30 for a private party. Luckily my event starts at six, but I was really planning on staying there till about 10 or 11 with everyone else.
I was never told about this event when I made the reservation, or even given a heads up about on the follow up call. It really throws a wrench in my plans, makes me look bad to any new members of my meetup and now I'm dreading a rushed dinner (too late to cancel).
So should I complain? If so, what's the best way to do where I don't come off as an ass. Truthfully the only reason I would debate complaining is to get some sort of compesation/mea culpa. Free apetizer or something. Would that be out of line? I generally try to avoid being the asshole/indignant customer, having worked plenty of customer service roles before.
Kyougu on
0
Posts
Complain because it basically wrenched your plans. If it were me, I'd call them up and let them know that when you originally scheduled your dinner party that no one informed you the restaurant would be closed for the private party and that you didn't want the happy hour nonsense and don't even know why you were scheduled that way. Then cancel the reservation and let them know all the last minute nuances with their schedule really wrenched your plans for the evening.
Of course you've got to be willing to look elsewhere. If you don't really care, meh no point in complaining, maybe you'll get free bread sticks, maybe the waiter will treat you like shit. Though 5 hours for a reservation? Did you okay that with them or was it "yeah I'm having a get together with some group members and I'd like a table for dinner." That's a lot of turnover they might lose? I mean if you've got 10 or so people, with 5 hours, that's 10-15 or so table turns they'd lose?
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
If the group is regularly ordering alcohol, then they're hardly losing money unless the place is very popular. If this is like most meetup groups it's on what would be an off night, and if they're regularly meeting at the same place then they're loyal patrons that regularly bring in money.
Yeah, I think that's the catch -- if people continue to eat/drink, most servers are happy to have them, as it runs the bill up. As long as they don't skimp on the tip at the end because they were just 1 person (tipping 7% because 15%/20% seems excessive for drinks, for example. I've tipped a lower % for expensive meals compared to cheap meals, where I'm usually close to 20%).
Anyway, if you assume the meetup starts at 6:00, and people aren't showing up continuously, it's not that rude for a restaurant to close 2.5 hours later. They would have warned you had you tried to eat at 7:45 or 8:15, mind, but they don't expect you to sit and eat for 5 hours, as Esh said.
It sounds like, if anything, the bar is especially accommodating, proved by the fact that at 8:30 an even bigger group is coming in and the restaurant is providing exclusive service. Now that you know they offer party events, perhaps ask about it next time you set up the meetup? It might be a good deal, especially if your meetup gets larger.
I'd always been under the impression that you should tip a little bit higher for drinking because the server and the bartender have to split the tips.
The percentage stays the same. You've probably left some servers/bartenders wondering what they did to upset you.
Like the OP said, it's not at all regular for them to be bringing that many people. Also, with 18 years of serving/bartending under my belt, I can tell you for a fact that after dinner, they'll be lucky if half of those people order 1 or 2 more drinks in that after period. Most people will just sit around jabbering at each other and drinking water or coffee. It's also a logistical nightmare handling a group of that size.
But, no matter what, you have no room to complain here. 2 1/2 hours is plenty of time and a very normal estimation by anyone for how long a group would be staying.
I co-organize a meetup and my opinion is that what they did is either (a) shady or (b) incompetent.
I would just take your business elsewhere next time. The venue for a meetup is only important insofar as providing ample space and a comfortable atmosphere for people to...well...meet. Unless your meetup is venue-specific for some reason. Like "A Hooters-Lovers Wings-and-Beer Meetup" or something.
5 hours is not necessarily "abnormal" for a meetup. It's perhaps a bit high but not really out of bounds. Events sometimes last for that long. If the venue agreed on that length of time, then the venue is at fault if they double-book or renege, especially if they don't communicate this to the first person who booked the venue (or a part of the venue). Also, it is the venue's responsibility to ensure their staff is properly compensated for the event, or at least it is something that should be negotiated with the organizer/founder of the meetup.
edit: To be fair to the venue, and Esh, I guess my question for the OP (since I kind of assumed this without really asking) is: Did you make the reservation for 5 hours initially? Or do they have a recurring relationship with you where it would be reasonable to assume that you would need five hours reserved? If so, then the venue is at fault. If not, then I think it was just a mutual misunderstanding and that you are not entitled to any compensation or anything. 5 hours is long for a standard reservation and I do think it is unreasonable to expect a venue to reserve a table for you for five hours without you explaining the length of your event to them beforehand. But it isn't long if you negotiated that with them beforehand because, well, whatever you negotiate with the venue is whatever it is.
Yeah I kind of brushed past that when forming my first response. I made certain assumptions when he said "meetup" - I think it would be standard to negotiate the details with the venue, even for a small meetup with 20-25 people. But if the OP did not do that then I don't think he really has leverage in a complaint. If he did do that, then of course he does.
I feel he has room to complain. While two and a half hours is plenty for dinner it's not great for a meetup. My experience with these things has been quite different than Esh's - as both a server and a patron. I've found people drank like fishes at these things. Yes, some tip better than others but that goes with any group.
My work frequently organizes meetups like these at a local bar and they love us. We're also usually a bigger group and are there even longer.
I don't think you should complain to get anything. Just do it in the interest of good customer service.
And Meetups (at least ones of that length) are not good for restaurants. Maybe a large bar, but not a restaurant. Not by a longshot.
On a Monday night people are drinking like fishes? I can see it on a Friday or Saturday, but definitely not a Monday unless the Meetup is made up of service industry people as you self-referenced. Not every place works the same either. Monopolizing that much space for that amount of time (without fair warning to the restaurant) would actually lead me to place the blame at the OP's feet. If he wanted to stay that long, he should've said something to the restaurant when making the reservation.
And like the OP said, the only reason he'd complain is for free stuff, and I can tell you right now, the restaurant isn't going to give you free appetizers for 25 people. Just chalk it up to miscommunication and forget about it. Why not at 8 or 8:30 just wander to another bar? I'm willing to bet a large chunk of your group will have dropped off by then and you'll be able to find another place to congregate for the rest of the evening very easily.
Anyway, I'm off to play ME3.
If you call and say you have 20 people coming at 7:00 PM, it's not the restaurant's job to say, "Are you going to be staying past midnight? Because we close at midnight."
And further, if you think you'll have 20 people for 5 hours, please don't book a space at a restaurant. You're really fucking over the staff. Not that they can say anything about it without being fired, but let's be real. Even if you tip 20%, chances are there are quite a few in your giant party who won't. And that 5 hours is likely that server's entire shift. 20 people? Easily most of their section. You most likely ruined their entire night.
The other night I had a party of 20. It was some sort of family birthday gathering. Worst behaved bunch of folks I've ever had the displeasure of meeting. One specifically ill-tempered pregnant woman (who was adorned in the tightest clothing her bulging womb would allow) was the cream of the crop. Upon informing her she accepted the wrong appetizer and that I had what she ordered for her (10 seconds after she took the first one, mind) she told me, "But I'm already fucking eating this one!" I said, "Not a problem. You can enjoy that one and I'll just leave this one you ordered here as well." She then told me, "Well then take this fucking thing with you!"
Excellent. Wonderful behaviour, future mom. Other patrons were just as bad. For example, one dirty looking fellow asking for a drink from one server and then asking the next server (and swearing at him) 5 seconds later for the same drink.
The $480 bill netted me a $32 tip. Ridiculous. The best part is that one of the party goers later said, "Hey, I used to work as a server. This was great. Food was great, service was excellent. One tip? Maybe smile a bit more."
Yes, I may have had a more serious facial expression after 2 hours of being swore at and disrespected. My bad.
In the end, half of them tipped decently, and the other half barely left 2%. The result? I barely covered what I had to tip out, and it was a waste of my time. This is obviously not indicative of how your night will go, but it's an example of how a few good apples in a big group still can't make up for the general asshattery of mankind. Don't take 20-25 people into a restaurant for 5 hours. It's a prick move. Go to a bar. Maybe reserve a couple high-top tables for people to mingle around. Another thing I notice when working these types of events? In a party of 20 people, half won't even order a god damned thing.
Don't complain to the establishment.
Edit: And 4-5 tables set aside in a dining room around dinner time doesn't just tie up those tables for the time you're there--they have to stop seating them far before you get there. It's a pain in the fucking ass. Not that people shouldn't book large parties in a dining room, but when it's you and a bunch of strangers/randoms/co-workers/whatevers, go to a bar or something. Half your party isn't going to order anything. And you're going to want to mingle. A dining room is not the ideal venue for you.
No, only baked potato.
(ahem)
Not much to add that the professionals haven't, but yeah, that's a fairly lengthy time to assume - yes, they should have mentioned it when you said 20+ people, though. If it's too late to go elsewhere, maybe stop over/give them a call before the event and see what you can work out in regards to minimums or package deals for food & drinks? Like, would they be interested in doing a flat rate for you guys for X food and X drinks or something?
I'm struggling to describe the place, since even though it is a restaurant, they have a limited menu (though it is one that is handled by some fancy chef or something). The big draw of this place is the huge beer selection. They also have a full stock bar.
We had done events here before, and never without any problems. Usually we would stay for about 4 hours or so, and people pretty much ordering drinks the entire time (as I mentioned,great beer selection). I had also purposely picked tuesday because that's their slow night, with no happy hour specials or such.
Either way it's a moot point. We had the event, and I didn't complaint. It went pretty well, as I made sure we had all gotten our checks by 8pm and we just transitioned to another bar without loosing a lot of people (where we stayed till eleven or so). I will be rethinking holding a future event there, and if I do I'll be more specific of the needs.
Was wondering that too.
Still, if you can flop tables 3-4 times in that, the 20% autograt is nothing right?
Sorry to say this, but you were asking for this to happen when you didn't explicitly reserve the space. Paying money to reserve a room is a good way of making sure things that restaurants will actually give you the space you need when you want it, and that your servers won't totally hate you. The fee (if they charge you one) is also a good way of guaranteeing that each of your guest pays the restaurant something, as there's nothing worse for a server than a group of 25 where half the people order waters and coffee.
My god. Who the fuck does this? I used to work as a valet parker in college. I don't force my sage wisdom on the guy gettin my car.
Yeah. Meanwhile here I am tipping like 35% because I feel like a cheapwad leaving a $3 tip.
Hell, I have good friends that I wont go out to eat with because they're shitty customers.
Some people are absolute dicks about tipping in general. My friend absolutely refuses to tip because he works at McDonalds and doesn't get tipped, but fails to realize they don't make minimum wage like he does.
Unfortunately, no. The owner is afraid guests will complain. I've explained to him that it's standard to add it and allow the option to remove it at the guest's request, but he still won't budge. It really sucks around Christmas time when there are so many parties. We had the same group of 30-40 come in for a few years at Christmas from a local furniture/decor store, and the lady would pay the entire bill and tip $20. There were 3 servers working the party (2-3 hours usually) and the bill would be around $600. That was always a fucking blast. This year, servers threatened to walk out if they had to work the party when it was booked. I agreed to work it if they allowed me to keep a separate section.
Turns out, a different manager took over the party and tipped 25% on $500. So yay. But yeah, the absence of auto-grat there really sucks. If I weren't trying desperately to get out of the industry anyway, I'd look for another restaurant.
Yeah, that sounds like an absolute shit situation. Every place I have worked had a general rule of 20% grat charge on tables of 8 or more. I was a cook, and there were several times I felt bad for waiters and waitresses who got screwed over by cheap assholes.
On the flip side, if you are a terrible server, you don't deserve a tip. My system is as follows: Terrible service (failed to refill drinks, ask how things were going, generally bitchy) 0%, standard service (filled drinks, asked how things were mid meal, not an asshole) 15%, good service (additionally helpful to the standard service) 20%, excellent service (goes above and beyond good service, like getting you non-menu items if you have specialty dietary concerns) 25%+
When my wife and I worked together, she had a table with a vegan. Our menu lacked a truly vegan option, so I went out of my way to make them a salad completely from scratch (dressing, etc.) that would be filling, tasty and not violate their diet. All of this was during a dinner rush, no less. Fuckers didn't tip her. After that I decided that nobody would get anything special anymore.
Did you tell them how long you were going to need the place for? Cause otherwise, you have no grounds to complain.
It's the nature of the industry. Some people believe that since tipping is optional, they'll find reasons to justify to themselves not to do it. I had a single guy come in tonight and order a sandwich and a pop. When his food arrived, he pushed it away from him and continued furiously texting on his phone. I gave him a couple minutes, came back, and said, "Have everything you need here, sir?" He looked up, obviously very annoyed, and said, "Yeah, it's fine" and kept texting.
Twenty minutes later my manager went to the table to see if he was enjoying his food. He proceeded to complain that the food was cold, soggy, and tasteless. His entire bill was comped and he just sat there and continued to text. I asked him if he wanted anything else, he said, "Uh, no." I told him we took care of his bill, have a great night, etc. "Oh good." Gets his jacket and leaves.
So he got into some upsetting conversation on his phone and lost his appetite, and when he finally did start to eat his dinner it was 20-30 minutes old and obviously tasted terrible. I know, complain and get it for free! Some people are just assholes. Part of the job.