Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[Mass Effect] SPOILER ALL ME3 DISCUSSION. EVERY SINGLE BIT. EVEN HINTS.

1767779818299

Posts

  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    TTODewback wrote: »
    What I don't get is..
    How the fuck did they even grab the citadel? Did they get like 500 reapers to hold on to it and then jump to FTL at the exact same moment? Can something that big even USE a mass relay? Or did they chant "There's no place like home" 3 times while click-clacking their tentactles together and summoned it? I mean we see the citadel open and close it's "arms", but we've never seen it being flown places.
    The citadel seemed to be reconfiguring itself near the end so maybe it was repurposed a bit. It also kind of looked reaper-ish. No doubt it had some sort of propulsion system

    t5qfc9.jpg
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    override367 wrote:
    http://www.masseffect2saves.com/ should have you covered, you can find every combination of options

    Unless you want to play a Renegade FemShep that romanced Liara, saved Kaiden, and let Wrex die.

    ME2 Save Game editor should be able to help you there. Can edit an ME2 save and change the ME1 flags (and some of the ME2 flags as well I think). And since you can change class and face when you import from ME2, you've got a good bit of leeway with what you can import.

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Curly
    Since you aren't screaming bloody murder at the ending, you and I can still be buds

    evilthecat wrote: »
    "Bioware I want to suck on your teets of gamingness".

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Mid-game spoilers (Quarians)
    Stupid. Fucking. Quarians.

    I'd elaborate more but honestly? That sums the entire thing up pretty well from my perspective.

    You mean Gerrel and Xen. Tali and Raan were unable to prevent it, and nobody else had any say. Also,
    @BioEvilChris During the final run, just before the end, are the two squadmates with you killed? I understand if you can't answer.

    @KenRaves I don't think we've revealed that yet. Sorry.

    Sounds like DLC!

  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Before I waste a ton of time, is there any difference in the ending for completing new game+?

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Sirson wrote: »
    Well said by Tycho, and especially true for the crazy drama queens on the Official Social forums. The I haven't ate in 24 hours because Mass Effect 3 is over crowd.
    "Mass Effect 3 succeeds, and succeeds, and succeeds as it unfolds; for it to be over, for it to stop at all, must certainly be seen as failure of a sort. The reaction to the endings is an index of player investment and seeming ownership over the narrative, years in the making, and is as much Bioware’s creation as the game itself. "
    The thing is, there's perceived failure(the usual rabid fanboy stuff), and then there is actual failure to deliver. It should not be a wild claim to say that the series has been about choices and consequences, along with the interactions between characters, and many developer interviews and the like have built up an expectation that the players would find out how things turn out depending on their choices. The failure to deliver essentially ANY continuity makes all of these choices completely pointless in retrospect, and removes what got many people into the series in the first place.
    the continuity's already there, spread across the ENTIRETY of the game. i don't need it from the ending because from the very start bioware's hammering home the choices i've made in the first two games.
    The continuity is there for some of your choices. The ending cancels out many of the choices you make. Also, the choices you make in the third game do not lead anywhere.

    For example:
    Made peace with the Geth and the Quarians? Great. All the Geth are dead. Or all the Quarians are dead. Or space magic makes everyone into reapers. No point to the choice you made.

    For most significant choices you make during the series, the end result becomes similarly irrelevant due to the consequences of the ending. You also don't find out what happens to the important characters from the series, aside from that idiotic crash scene that I won't get into.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    What the fuck is this obsession over using the word bittersweet?

    Ending stuff:
    Bittersour, more like it. Many moments in the game were genuinely bittersweet, such as the deaths of Mordin, Legion and Thane, but the ending has nothing sweet about it. The galaxy is fucked, damn near all the civilizations are going to collapse/go extinct, and none of your choices mattered in the end.

    Also, how come many people are so opposed to there being a genuinely happy ending? At least one that gets as happy as can be considering the circumstances. Is it some sort of new thing about being edgy or something, that happened some years back with comics? It should be an option. Playing through the game in a certain way should enable the player to reach a happy, if a little generic ending, while also providing proper grimdark depression fuel sort of ending for those playing particularly spectacular failsheps. Add those two endings and the choice to get closure on your choices, and the ending of the game would be fixed. Wouldn't even have to do anything to the current endings, leaving them as they are for the people who like them now.

    Providing choice for the ending would make it so much better. For the people who don't see this as necessary, well... They can just opt out from fulfilling the requirements to those endings. Nobody loses.

    I am. I generally believe that giving a
    everyone is happy and everything worked out perfectly ending even if optional would completely under-mind the game.

    It isn't about being edgy, it's about creating a compelling narrative. While I think the ending after TIM was half-assed, I think an ending where everything was sunshine and roses afterwards would be equally as heavy-handed and half-assed.
    What is currently in the game is in no way, shape or form compelling. At least not to many people. I'm not saying everything needs to roll back in a happy ending as if though the reapers never existed. I'm saying it should be happy as far as possible under the circumstances, as opposed to the current "Welp, we might've technically won, but everything and everyone is more or less fucked". Providing an ending with a positive air, and actual hope of recovery wouldn't undermine the game in any way whatsoever, since for many people it was exactly what they were fighting for.

    Providing a choice in the ending isn't taking anything away from anyone else, and like I said there's no reason an utterly grimdark shitfest couldn't be included for the people who'd prefer that sort of an ending(and I would make at least one playthrough that way), as well as retaining the current pseudo-profound endings for those who liked them. The responses that usually involve claims about a positive(i.e. as positive as possible in the currently messed up galaxy, not some magical "everything turned out just hunky dory"-ending) endings "cheapening" or "undermining" the experience just read to me as "Fuck you I got mine". I received no satisfaction from the ending, and if someone else did, great, good for them. Why shouldn't other people get that as well though?

    I mean, these kinds of endings were shit when they happened in Evangelion and Deus Ex:HR, no reason they'd be better when stuck to a Bioware game. They're just inherently dissatisfying to many people, and they're nowhere near as intellectual as they pretend to be.

    You know its funny that you criticize the use of the "bittersweet" term then throw out "Fuck you I got mine." to undermine the opinions of people who liked the ending which is pretty much just as much of a buzzword.

    And I will disagree.
    Throwing in an ending that completely disregards everything else you've been building up is taking away from the experience, imo.

    I agree that the ending as it isn't as good as it could be. But not because of how "grimdark" the scene is, moreso because the last 5 minutes don't make any sense. If anything, the reason I appreciate the ending in spite of how badly the last few minutes were bangled is because of how it comes together. And I think that all these people rewriting the ending so everything magically works out in the end are simply trading one nonsensical conclusion for another. Which, while it may make you happier, is just as bad.

    These games are about "choice" true, but they'll also about telling a good story. The thing about that is that to be able to tell a good tale you can't always give people what they want. Believe me, I love happy endings and if Shepard and his crew sailed off into the sunshine on more wacky adventures a part of me would be ecstatic. That being said another part of me would be annoyed.

    I agree that player deserves closure and that the game doesn't give you enough of that. But I believe that thematically nothing was wrong with the ending. Closure isn't always about making the viewer/player feel good about themselves. There are more human emotions than happiness and being made to experience one of the others is not in itself a bad thing.

    That being said. The reason that you see the term "bittersweet" used a lot by people is because of lot of people can see the optimism that comes with the ending. Where you see grimdark and edgy for the sake of being edgy, I see freedom and hope for the future.

    Dragkonias on
  • AsiinaAsiina Registered User regular
    Yeah, I wouldn't replay Mass Effect 1. There are many things they fixed for 2 that just make it damn near unplayable. There are only a few choices in Mass Effect that make a difference in 2 and 3: Who you romanced, who you left to die, whether Wrex survives, if you saved the council, and if you released the rachni queen. I replayed Mass Effect 2 twice about a month ago since I lost my savegames from my original playthrough, and you don't really miss much from 1. That said, I wouldn't import a ME2 save into ME3. There are just so many more things that matter.

    You can get a full, everybody lives playthrough done in about 20 hours.

  • curly haired boycurly haired boy Your Friendly Neighborhood Torgue Dealer Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    i'm with you, cambiata.
    the relays HAD to go. sovvy says from the beginning that their chief purpose is to guide organic development along a pre-determined path. fuck that shit, time to break free.

    also, anyone who things the ending makes all your work count for nothing is on SPACE CRACK.

    you have a chance to leave the galaxy in a more hopeful long-term position than it's EVER been in. you defeat the reapers, ending the cycle. depending on your choices you can solve some of the greatest interspecies conflicts of your era. so fucking what if the relays are gone - we need to determine our own path. and i can't think of a more hopeful ending than a galaxy, united - both organics and synthetics - to fight for survival and a common desire to rebel against the plans of the ancients.

    as i've said before, this ending lets bioware take some frankly amazing steps with the mass effect universe going forward. i can't fucking wait.
    It does invalidate your choices if you care more about the direct consequences of those choices and not some hypothetical future society that's at best marginally tied to the current setting. The defeat of the reapers and the ending of the cycle were to many people just a stepping stone towards finding out how their choices shape the galaxy afterwards, and they received nothing for it, making the choices pointless, since you can do whatever and get the same ending with a different color palette.

    The destruction of the relays is not a bad thing, in fact it's a good thing for the setting to become more interesting, but the current endings address none of the expectation for a sizable portion of the player base at the moment.
    the bolded above confirms that a sizable portion of the player base is silly geese, then. :P

    i'm getting the feeling that if they had to choose between saving their friends and saving the galaxy, the reapers would get their harvest.

    shepard says it over and over and over and over and OVER during the course of ME3: i'm prepared to die to save my friends save the normandy save earth SAVE THE GALAXY AND DEFEAT THE REAPERS

    curly haired boy on
    RxI0N.png
    Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
  • Skull2185Skull2185 Mr. Steal yo' heart Registered User regular
    [
    @BioEvilChris During the final run, just before the end, are the two squadmates with you killed? I understand if you can't answer.

    @KenRaves I don't think we've revealed that yet. Sorry.

    Sounds like DLC!
    I'm gonna go with no, cause I had Ashley with me, and she got out of The Normandy where ever it is

  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    The ending had good ideas, but was poorly executed. That about sums it up for me at least. I am really, really growing tired of how much ending discussion has eclipsed other discussion of the game.

    PSN:CaptainNemo1138
    Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    The ending had good ideas, but was poorly executed. That about sums it up for me at least. I am really, really growing tired of how much ending discussion has eclipsed other discussion of the game.

    We can add that to our numerous list of reasons of why we don't like the ending.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Asiina wrote: »
    Yeah, I wouldn't replay Mass Effect 1. There are many things they fixed for 2 that just make it damn near unplayable. There are only a few choices in Mass Effect that make a difference in 2 and 3: Who you romanced, who you left to die, whether Wrex survives, if you saved the council, and if you released the rachni queen. I replayed Mass Effect 2 twice about a month ago since I lost my savegames from my original playthrough, and you don't really miss much from 1. That said, I wouldn't import a ME2 save into ME3. There are just so many more things that matter.

    You can get a full, everybody lives playthrough done in about 20 hours.

    If you do not collect the Matriarch's Writings, save what's-her-face, and pick up an Elkoss Combine License

    you have not finished ME1

    evilthecat wrote: »
    "Bioware I want to suck on your teets of gamingness".

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • mogonkmogonk Registered User regular
    I guess I'm not surprised that Holkins and Kuchera are going out of their way to mislead people about this game, given the extensive history of business dealings between Penny Arcade and Bioware.

    I am surprised at how blatant they're being about it. Talking about how it's like people are playing different games because of the choices they made in ME1 and ME2 is absolutely ludicrous given how minimal and superficial the effects of your previous choices are in this game.

    Not mentioning the reduced dialogue options ONCE either on the blog or in the official review is just incredible. So is Kuchera's attempt to blame fans for their reactions to the ending, or Tycho's claim that it's somehow impossible to write a satisfying conclusion to a video game (but not a novel or a film....riiiight). What kind of coverage glosses over anything negative about the game and fabricates positive qualities? It's like reading a particularly dishonest press release. It's like advertising.

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Man, I just can't do a run where Wrex dies in 1 or anybody dies in 2. Nobody falls, you hear me?

  • DacDac Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Before I waste a ton of time, is there any difference in the ending for completing new game+?
    Depends on what your Galactic Readiness was.

    I was at like 6700+ at 100%.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    i'm with you, cambiata.
    the relays HAD to go. sovvy says from the beginning that their chief purpose is to guide organic development along a pre-determined path. fuck that shit, time to break free.
    There is the pretty significant issue that we really shouldn't believe anything Sovereign, or any other Reaper (including the Catalyst) tells us. They're the enemy. The Reapers pretty much define the term "psychological warfare". Treating their information as legitimate is shown - repeatedly - to be the first step to becoming a willing slave.

    The relays were never the problem: the whole benefit to the Reapers of the relays is that civilizations avoided developing their own mass relay networks, and instead used the ones which were already there - and, since the Citadel can control the Relays, it makes galactic annihilations straight-forward since normally they'd flick the switch, all jump in on top of the Citadel and shut down the whole network - effectively shattering any and all galactic empires, and ruining any ability to rally fleets together to respond.

    The relays did not need to go - since the only thing we're going to do is rebuild our own mass relays, probably by copying as much of the original technology as possible. The relays were only ever a problem because they had a single centralized point of control which was exploited by the Reapers - no Reapers, no problems.

  • AsiinaAsiina Registered User regular
    The ending had good ideas, but was poorly executed. That about sums it up for me at least. I am really, really growing tired of how much ending discussion has eclipsed other discussion of the game.

    I'd like to talk about other things, but what do you expect? The ending of a story-based game franchise is going to monopolize discussion of that game. While this is especially true because so many people disliked the ending. Even if most people got their dream endings, it'd still be discussed to death.

  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    [
    @BioEvilChris During the final run, just before the end, are the two squadmates with you killed? I understand if you can't answer.

    @KenRaves I don't think we've revealed that yet. Sorry.

    Sounds like DLC!
    I'm gonna go with no, cause I had Ashley with me, and she got out of The Normandy where ever it is
    I had Garrus with me and he was the one stepping out of the Normandy :3

    t5qfc9.jpg
  • interrobanginterrobang kawaii as  hellRegistered User regular
    holy balls

    the javelin is a goddamn death ray

    i wish it didn't weigh so much D:

  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    Asiina wrote: »
    The ending had good ideas, but was poorly executed. That about sums it up for me at least. I am really, really growing tired of how much ending discussion has eclipsed other discussion of the game.

    I'd like to talk about other things, but what do you expect? The ending of a story-based game franchise is going to monopolize discussion of that game. While this is especially true because so many people disliked the ending. Even if most people got their dream endings, it'd still be discussed to death.

    I wish people were busy discussing how awesome and appropriate "their" endings were, but ah well.

  • EmporiumEmporium Registered User regular
    The ending had good ideas, but was poorly executed. That about sums it up for me at least. I am really, really growing tired of how much ending discussion has eclipsed other discussion of the game.

    Yeah, I liked this thread much better when we just laughed (ironically, of course) at bad fanfic/pictures and quads. I could do without everyone's crusade to convince people who disagree that the ending ruined videogames forever (yes this was hyperbole, and no it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, but if the shoe fits...)

    Also
    Quads.

  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    Seeing the alt possibilities in ME3 has made me more inclined, rather than less, to bring back my hardcore renegade Shep.
    I like that, despite the fact that they're kind of nightmarishly awful, they're not cartoonishly so. There are entirely legitimate reasons to do what you do in those scenarios.

  • Skull2185Skull2185 Mr. Steal yo' heart Registered User regular
    Zzulu wrote: »
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    [
    @BioEvilChris During the final run, just before the end, are the two squadmates with you killed? I understand if you can't answer.

    @KenRaves I don't think we've revealed that yet. Sorry.

    Sounds like DLC!
    I'm gonna go with no, cause I had Ashley with me, and she got out of The Normandy where ever it is
    I had Garrus with me and he was the one stepping out of the Normandy :3

    Interesting...
    Was the other person, besides Joker, Vega? Because he popped out after Ashley, but I definitely didn't have him with me. I wish he died...

  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    What the fuck is this obsession over using the word bittersweet?

    Ending stuff:
    Bittersour, more like it. Many moments in the game were genuinely bittersweet, such as the deaths of Mordin, Legion and Thane, but the ending has nothing sweet about it. The galaxy is fucked, damn near all the civilizations are going to collapse/go extinct, and none of your choices mattered in the end.

    Also, how come many people are so opposed to there being a genuinely happy ending? At least one that gets as happy as can be considering the circumstances. Is it some sort of new thing about being edgy or something, that happened some years back with comics? It should be an option. Playing through the game in a certain way should enable the player to reach a happy, if a little generic ending, while also providing proper grimdark depression fuel sort of ending for those playing particularly spectacular failsheps. Add those two endings and the choice to get closure on your choices, and the ending of the game would be fixed. Wouldn't even have to do anything to the current endings, leaving them as they are for the people who like them now.

    Providing choice for the ending would make it so much better. For the people who don't see this as necessary, well... They can just opt out from fulfilling the requirements to those endings. Nobody loses.

    I am. I generally believe that giving a
    everyone is happy and everything worked out perfectly ending even if optional would completely under-mind the game.

    It isn't about being edgy, it's about creating a compelling narrative. While I think the ending after TIM was half-assed, I think an ending where everything was sunshine and roses afterwards would be equally as heavy-handed and half-assed.
    What is currently in the game is in no way, shape or form compelling. At least not to many people. I'm not saying everything needs to roll back in a happy ending as if though the reapers never existed. I'm saying it should be happy as far as possible under the circumstances, as opposed to the current "Welp, we might've technically won, but everything and everyone is more or less fucked". Providing an ending with a positive air, and actual hope of recovery wouldn't undermine the game in any way whatsoever, since for many people it was exactly what they were fighting for.

    Providing a choice in the ending isn't taking anything away from anyone else, and like I said there's no reason an utterly grimdark shitfest couldn't be included for the people who'd prefer that sort of an ending(and I would make at least one playthrough that way), as well as retaining the current pseudo-profound endings for those who liked them. The responses that usually involve claims about a positive(i.e. as positive as possible in the currently messed up galaxy, not some magical "everything turned out just hunky dory"-ending) endings "cheapening" or "undermining" the experience just read to me as "Fuck you I got mine". I received no satisfaction from the ending, and if someone else did, great, good for them. Why shouldn't other people get that as well though?

    I mean, these kinds of endings were shit when they happened in Evangelion and Deus Ex:HR, no reason they'd be better when stuck to a Bioware game. They're just inherently dissatisfying to many people, and they're nowhere near as intellectual as they pretend to be.

    You know its funny that you criticize the use of the "bittersweet" term then throw out "Fuck you I got mine." to undermine the opinions of people who liked the ending which is pretty much just as much of a buzzword.

    And I will disagree.
    Throwing in an ending that completely disregards everything else you've been building up is taking away from the experience, imo.

    I agree that the ending as it isn't as good as it could be. But not because of how "grimdark" the scene is, moreso because the last 5 minutes don't make any sense. If anything, the reason I appreciate the ending in spite of how badly the last few minutes were bangled is because of how it comes together. And I think that all these people rewriting the ending so everything magically works out in the end are simply trading one nonsensical conclusion for another. Which, while it may make you happier, is just as bad.

    These games are about "choice" true, but they'll also about telling a good story. The thing about that is that to be able to tell a good tale you can't always give people want they want. Believe me, I love happy endings and if Shepard and his crew sailed off into the sunshine on more wacky adventures a part of me would be ecstatic. That being said another part of me would be annoyed.

    I agree that player deserves closure and that the game doesn't give you enough of that. But I believe that thematically nothing was wrong with the ending. Closure isn't always about making the viewer/player feel good about themselves. There are more human emotions than happiness and being made to experience one of the others is not in itself a bad thing.

    That being said. The reason that you see the term "bittersweet" used a lot by people is because of lot of people can see the optimism that comes with the ending. Where you see grimdark and edgy for the sake of being edgy, I see freedom and hope for the future.
    For me, the bolded part is exactly what the current ending is.

    And I don't mind a bleak ending, I love The Road and regularly consume all sorts of horribly depressing stuff. The problem is that the ending of the game feels like a switcheroo, where for the whole series you're led to believe that you're in a somewhat grounded(if unrealistic) sci-fi opera about overcoming overwhelming odds and choices and consequences and stuff. Then in the end the internal consistency of the setting(as far as physics and what's possible in the setting etc. goes) is thrown out of the window and substituted with some sort of a Deus Ex HR/ Evangelion reject ending and space magic. Personally, it felt extremely jarring, due to seemingly being taken from another work of fiction and just glued to the end of ME3. It was also in not in a good way surprising or interesting, as I've come across similar things in fiction several times, and adds nothing to the narrative for me.

    The experience just felt like it was building up to a payoff, and instead you get nothing and they throw a few more questions at you instead. I can definitely see how many people are saying it's killed their interest in the franchise.

  • QuirkyLittleTyrantQuirkyLittleTyrant A Mug Featuring Pichu On A Cloud Registered User regular
    Ending spoilers
    I would've been cool with Shepard dying to save the galaxy (this is what I actually thought everyone was so pissed about e.g. "a bloo bloo bloo my Shepard never got to make asari babies with Liara" bitching).

    I would've been cool with a super dark "the Crucible doesn't do anything/Shepard dies before it can be activated" ending.

    I would've been cool with a dumb Disney happy ending where Shepard dies of liver failure due to all those promised drinks.

    What I got was what if Star Trek TNG ended with the StarChild from 2001 ascending Picard to another plane of existence during the final battle with the Borg cube and telling him he can only save the Federation by assimilating with the Borg, controlling the Borg at the cost of his own life, or killing all of them and Data.

    Also everything that makes the Federation works is destroyed.

    It just doesn't fit and it sucks because I love the rest of the game so, so much.

    PSN ID: Khrysocome
    Steam: ZappRowsdower
  • HeisenbergHeisenberg Registered User regular
    The main thing about the ending is just how easy it would have been to write something better.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Truth be told I'm actually someone annoyed...

    *Ending Spoiler*
    That the last five minutes of the ending are so bad. Because, and I'm not saying everyone who dislikes the ending is doing this so don't get mad, the rest of the ending which I think was wonderful gets dismissed because of it.

  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    i'm with you, cambiata.
    the relays HAD to go. sovvy says from the beginning that their chief purpose is to guide organic development along a pre-determined path. fuck that shit, time to break free.

    also, anyone who things the ending makes all your work count for nothing is on SPACE CRACK.

    you have a chance to leave the galaxy in a more hopeful long-term position than it's EVER been in. you defeat the reapers, ending the cycle. depending on your choices you can solve some of the greatest interspecies conflicts of your era. so fucking what if the relays are gone - we need to determine our own path. and i can't think of a more hopeful ending than a galaxy, united - both organics and synthetics - to fight for survival and a common desire to rebel against the plans of the ancients.

    as i've said before, this ending lets bioware take some frankly amazing steps with the mass effect universe going forward. i can't fucking wait.
    It does invalidate your choices if you care more about the direct consequences of those choices and not some hypothetical future society that's at best marginally tied to the current setting. The defeat of the reapers and the ending of the cycle were to many people just a stepping stone towards finding out how their choices shape the galaxy afterwards, and they received nothing for it, making the choices pointless, since you can do whatever and get the same ending with a different color palette.

    The destruction of the relays is not a bad thing, in fact it's a good thing for the setting to become more interesting, but the current endings address none of the expectation for a sizable portion of the player base at the moment.
    the bolded above confirms that a sizable portion of the player base is silly geese, then. :P

    i'm getting the feeling that if they had to choose between saving their friends and saving the galaxy, the reapers would get their harvest.

    shepard says it over and over and over and over and OVER during the course of ME3: i'm prepared to die to save my friends save the normandy save earth SAVE THE GALAXY AND DEFEAT THE REAPERS
    Really? For many people the meat of the game is the characters and the plot choices and interactions. If you got the satisfaction from just fighting the reapers, good for you.

  • AsiinaAsiina Registered User regular
    I'm still going to do my renegade Shepard run. In ME2 I felt that my pure paragon Shepard was the "right" way to play her. She was the character I wanted her to be. But a full 100% renegade Shepard is the FUN way to play her. I enjoyed my Renegade playthrough so much more. Paragon Shepard just turns into therapist Shepard by the end of ME2 which started to annoy me, whereas renegade Shepard is vastly more entertaining all the way through.

  • Agent PropagandiAgent Propagandi Registered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    i'm with you, cambiata.
    the relays HAD to go. sovvy says from the beginning that their chief purpose is to guide organic development along a pre-determined path. fuck that shit, time to break free.

    also, anyone who things the ending makes all your work count for nothing is on SPACE CRACK.

    you have a chance to leave the galaxy in a more hopeful long-term position than it's EVER been in. you defeat the reapers, ending the cycle. depending on your choices you can solve some of the greatest interspecies conflicts of your era. so fucking what if the relays are gone - we need to determine our own path. and i can't think of a more hopeful ending than a galaxy, united - both organics and synthetics - to fight for survival and a common desire to rebel against the plans of the ancients.

    as i've said before, this ending lets bioware take some frankly amazing steps with the mass effect universe going forward. i can't fucking wait.
    It does invalidate your choices if you care more about the direct consequences of those choices and not some hypothetical future society that's at best marginally tied to the current setting. The defeat of the reapers and the ending of the cycle were to many people just a stepping stone towards finding out how their choices shape the galaxy afterwards, and they received nothing for it, making the choices pointless, since you can do whatever and get the same ending with a different color palette.

    The destruction of the relays is not a bad thing, in fact it's a good thing for the setting to become more interesting, but the current endings address none of the expectation for a sizable portion of the player base at the moment.
    the bolded above confirms that a sizable portion of the player base is silly geese, then. :P

    i'm getting the feeling that if they had to choose between saving their friends and saving the galaxy, the reapers would get their harvest.

    shepard says it over and over and over and over and OVER during the course of ME3: i'm prepared to die to save my friends save the normandy save earth SAVE THE GALAXY AND DEFEAT THE REAPERS
    Maybe your Shepard did. Mine promised Liara he'd never leave her. And he keeps his promises. :rotate:

    Steam | Origin: AgentProp | Website
  • EvigilantEvigilant VARegistered User regular
    My biggest beef with the ending:
    The part where Liara walks in and shows you she's keeping a black box that has the record of your life, the fight, and everything completely disappears at the end, the game completely forgets that the scene happened. The stargazer scene falls flat because it's all "legend" and happened so long ago, but that's the very reason why this box exists and why Liara created it: so that people could always remember what was and what happened and who you are.

    I would fix this one scene by having it start off by showing the things you where able to accomplish in your play through, the recording ending, and THEN the kid asking if the stories are true about "the Shepard."

    As for the choices with the crucible god kid, I don't know really what to think. I think the sole complaint would be that in my opinion, throughout ME2 and ME3 we're focused on how evil TIM is and how insane his idea of controlling the Reapers really is and yet that's the Paragon option. Before you even get on the elevator to make that choice, you just finished arguing with Anderson and TIM over this. Your decisions in ME2 and ME3 regarding the Geth, control is not the paragon option, but it's some how alright because now we're dealing with Reapers and it's alright only if you're the one controlling them?

    Why? Why does the game decide in the final moments that, TIM's idea of controlling the reapers is the Paragon option? It felt like the argument I just had with Anderson and TIM, and since I went paragon, meant nothing because he was right.

    Google+ Profile XBL\PSN\Steam\Origin: Evigilant
  • curly haired boycurly haired boy Your Friendly Neighborhood Torgue Dealer Registered User regular
    re: endings:
    i can think of a quite a few worse endings than the ones we're given.

    i'm pretty happy that the endings we GET deliver on the two vital points: eliminating the reaper threat, and setting the galaxy on a new path forward. everything beyond that is gravy, and if bioware didn't want to put too much sugar in their gravy, i'm ok with it.

    RxI0N.png
    Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
  • grim sbgrim sb Registered User regular
    So... who do we need to romance to get a dedicated ME3 MP thread?

  • SirsonSirson Registered User regular
    mogonk wrote: »

    I am surprised at how blatant they're being about it. Talking about how it's like people are playing different games because of the choices they made in ME1 and ME2 is absolutely ludicrous given how minimal and superficial the effects of your previous choices are in this game.
    I feel like you are being a little too cynical here, your choices do have consequences, just talking to my coworkers has the almost exact same effect that is shown in that comic. Two of my coworkers just outright let Tali die in #2, and IMPORTED that save into 3. Madness I tell you.

  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Truth be told I'm actually someone annoyed...

    *Ending Spoiler*
    That the last five minutes of the ending are so bad. Because, and I'm not saying everyone who dislikes the ending is doing this so don't get mad, the rest of the ending which I think was wonderful gets dismissed because of it.

    I will agree with you 100% on that. Honestly, even a lukewarm ending would've been better, since then people would've been just "Meh" and would've proceeded to discuss all the awesome that happens during the game itself.

  • Skull2185Skull2185 Mr. Steal yo' heart Registered User regular
    grim sb wrote: »
    So... who do we need to romance to get a dedicated ME3 MP thread?

    20 Vorcha, 6 Volus and a Banshee.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    What the fuck is this obsession over using the word bittersweet?

    Ending stuff:
    Bittersour, more like it. Many moments in the game were genuinely bittersweet, such as the deaths of Mordin, Legion and Thane, but the ending has nothing sweet about it. The galaxy is fucked, damn near all the civilizations are going to collapse/go extinct, and none of your choices mattered in the end.

    Also, how come many people are so opposed to there being a genuinely happy ending? At least one that gets as happy as can be considering the circumstances. Is it some sort of new thing about being edgy or something, that happened some years back with comics? It should be an option. Playing through the game in a certain way should enable the player to reach a happy, if a little generic ending, while also providing proper grimdark depression fuel sort of ending for those playing particularly spectacular failsheps. Add those two endings and the choice to get closure on your choices, and the ending of the game would be fixed. Wouldn't even have to do anything to the current endings, leaving them as they are for the people who like them now.

    Providing choice for the ending would make it so much better. For the people who don't see this as necessary, well... They can just opt out from fulfilling the requirements to those endings. Nobody loses.

    I am. I generally believe that giving a
    everyone is happy and everything worked out perfectly ending even if optional would completely under-mind the game.

    It isn't about being edgy, it's about creating a compelling narrative. While I think the ending after TIM was half-assed, I think an ending where everything was sunshine and roses afterwards would be equally as heavy-handed and half-assed.
    What is currently in the game is in no way, shape or form compelling. At least not to many people. I'm not saying everything needs to roll back in a happy ending as if though the reapers never existed. I'm saying it should be happy as far as possible under the circumstances, as opposed to the current "Welp, we might've technically won, but everything and everyone is more or less fucked". Providing an ending with a positive air, and actual hope of recovery wouldn't undermine the game in any way whatsoever, since for many people it was exactly what they were fighting for.

    Providing a choice in the ending isn't taking anything away from anyone else, and like I said there's no reason an utterly grimdark shitfest couldn't be included for the people who'd prefer that sort of an ending(and I would make at least one playthrough that way), as well as retaining the current pseudo-profound endings for those who liked them. The responses that usually involve claims about a positive(i.e. as positive as possible in the currently messed up galaxy, not some magical "everything turned out just hunky dory"-ending) endings "cheapening" or "undermining" the experience just read to me as "Fuck you I got mine". I received no satisfaction from the ending, and if someone else did, great, good for them. Why shouldn't other people get that as well though?

    I mean, these kinds of endings were shit when they happened in Evangelion and Deus Ex:HR, no reason they'd be better when stuck to a Bioware game. They're just inherently dissatisfying to many people, and they're nowhere near as intellectual as they pretend to be.

    You know its funny that you criticize the use of the "bittersweet" term then throw out "Fuck you I got mine." to undermine the opinions of people who liked the ending which is pretty much just as much of a buzzword.

    And I will disagree.
    Throwing in an ending that completely disregards everything else you've been building up is taking away from the experience, imo.

    I agree that the ending as it isn't as good as it could be. But not because of how "grimdark" the scene is, moreso because the last 5 minutes don't make any sense. If anything, the reason I appreciate the ending in spite of how badly the last few minutes were bangled is because of how it comes together. And I think that all these people rewriting the ending so everything magically works out in the end are simply trading one nonsensical conclusion for another. Which, while it may make you happier, is just as bad.

    These games are about "choice" true, but they'll also about telling a good story. The thing about that is that to be able to tell a good tale you can't always give people want they want. Believe me, I love happy endings and if Shepard and his crew sailed off into the sunshine on more wacky adventures a part of me would be ecstatic. That being said another part of me would be annoyed.

    I agree that player deserves closure and that the game doesn't give you enough of that. But I believe that thematically nothing was wrong with the ending. Closure isn't always about making the viewer/player feel good about themselves. There are more human emotions than happiness and being made to experience one of the others is not in itself a bad thing.

    That being said. The reason that you see the term "bittersweet" used a lot by people is because of lot of people can see the optimism that comes with the ending. Where you see grimdark and edgy for the sake of being edgy, I see freedom and hope for the future.
    For me, the bolded part is exactly what the current ending is.

    And I don't mind a bleak ending, I love The Road and regularly consume all sorts of horribly depressing stuff. The problem is that the ending of the game feels like a switcheroo, where for the whole series you're led to believe that you're in a somewhat grounded(if unrealistic) sci-fi opera about overcoming overwhelming odds and choices and consequences and stuff. Then in the end the internal consistency of the setting(as far as physics and what's possible in the setting etc. goes) is thrown out of the window and substituted with some sort of a Deus Ex HR/ Evangelion reject ending and space magic. Personally, it felt extremely jarring, due to seemingly being taken from another work of fiction and just glued to the end of ME3. It was also in not in a good way surprising or interesting, as I've come across similar things in fiction several times, and adds nothing to the narrative for me.

    The experience just felt like it was building up to a payoff, and instead you get nothing and they throw a few more questions at you instead. I can definitely see how many people are saying it's killed their interest in the franchise.

    I guess that's a matter of prespective because...I honestly believe that...
    You do beat the odds.

    Think about it. You're the first sentient being in the history to stand a chance against a race of machines that have been doing what they've been doing for millions of years.

    No one before you has stood and chance and the best they were able to do was leave behind clues for future generations.

    Sure, your victory comes out a heavy cost, but for the first time in history you've given the galaxy a chance at a real future.

    And honestly, I find that the fact that you sacrifice so much to do it to be great.

    Just like the species before you who resigned themselves to their fate, you(the species that was actually victorious) gave up so much not only to win but to insure the future of those who come after you.

    I think there is something wonderful in that. The idea of altruism and self-sacrifice to truly be giving yourself not so that you get something in return but so that those who come after you can be have chance. And I think in the end Shepard personified that very notion...and to give you an easy way out would have really diminished that.

  • AsiinaAsiina Registered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Truth be told I'm actually someone annoyed...

    *Ending Spoiler*
    That the last five minutes of the ending are so bad. Because, and I'm not saying everyone who dislikes the ending is doing this so don't get mad, the rest of the ending which I think was wonderful gets dismissed because of it.

    I will agree with you 100% on that. Honestly, even a lukewarm ending would've been better, since then people would've been just "Meh" and would've proceeded to discuss all the awesome that happens during the game itself.

    Agreed. If the ending had been plain and generic, then whatever. People still would argue about various details because it is the internet, but it would be mixed in with other discussion about how goddamn awesome other parts are.

  • KhildithKhildith Registered User regular
    Evigilant wrote: »
    My biggest beef with the ending:
    The part where Liara walks in and shows you she's keeping a black box that has the record of your life, the fight, and everything completely disappears at the end, the game completely forgets that the scene happened. The stargazer scene falls flat because it's all "legend" and happened so long ago, but that's the very reason why this box exists and why Liara created it: so that people could always remember what was and what happened and who you are.

    I would fix this one scene by having it start off by showing the things you where able to accomplish in your play through, the recording ending, and THEN the kid asking if the stories are true about "the Shepard."

    As for the choices with the crucible god kid, I don't know really what to think. I think the sole complaint would be that in my opinion, throughout ME2 and ME3 we're focused on how evil TIM is and how insane his idea of controlling the Reapers really is and yet that's the Paragon option. Before you even get on the elevator to make that choice, you just finished arguing with Anderson and TIM over this. Your decisions in ME2 and ME3 regarding the Geth, control is not the paragon option, but it's some how alright because now we're dealing with Reapers and it's alright only if you're the one controlling them?

    Why? Why does the game decide in the final moments that, TIM's idea of controlling the reapers is the Paragon option? It felt like the argument I just had with Anderson and TIM, and since I went paragon, meant nothing because he was right.
    TIM was wrong, in my opinion, not only because he was indoctrinated, but because he was willing to risk the future of humanity that he MIGHT be able to control the Reapers. When the Catalyst tells you that you'll be able to take control of the Reapers, you have no more reason to doubt one option over another, so why not pick the one that keeps the Geth and EDI alive?

This discussion has been closed.