The first dude I ever had sex with was super interested in what kind of porn I masturbated to, and I told him. And from that he always assumed that if I masturbated to something, then that means I wanted to have it happen to me. I never understood this attitude, and I never will. The fact is when he tried to introduce some of that stuff into our bed , most of the time I didn't like it. I don't know how much specifics it would be OK to get into here, so I won't.
When I watch porn, most of the time it's as a voyeur. I like to watch it, not because I want that done to me, but because of the idea (real or not) that the person in the video is enjoying it. Seeing or hearing someone get off is erotic, by itself, whoever they are.
Also its funny how they seem to need to go the the mutual ground of thinking fucking Garrus is gross.
I found that highly amusing as well. And given the astounding diversity of tastes I'm sure there are people who disagree.
I also think Jerry was being serious. It does mesh well with his previous written posts on finding narrative and variety interesting. But who knows.
Jerry's aplomb when discussing this topic is admirable. Regardless of his tastes, it's his attitude toward the topic; it's ideal. And I'm very pleased to see even in this one post how people were positively affected by seeing it. My hopes are high that this (attitude, not particular preference) is, and will be, becoming more and more the norm, despite some rather vocal opposition.
I could say "I know, right?" to 10 other posts in this thread but I'll stop now. Just, cheers.
And also to answer Jerry's entreaty in his post 9 March: Yes. More please. If they're even half as serious, and/or moving, and/or thought-provoking as this one, hell yes more.
Because 4th Panel feedback was solicited I provide you with this my shining, first ever post on these forums: 4th panel/PA The Series is awesome and I look forward to it every week. Episodes like this one that contain random off topic discussions are amazing because they don't feel scripted. You feel like you really are just a fly on the wall while you guys do what you do. It is entertaining without trying to be entertainment and I give it an A+.
I, like others, joined to comment on this episode. I laughed so hard. I think society in general finds male on male sex unattractive, which is weird to me. It carries with it some kind of social stigma in a society that finds so many other kinds of pornography perfectly acceptable. Even as a female, when I have mentioned to others while on the topic of discussing porn that I find male on male porn to be very arousing, most people react the way Mike does. I've always found that shocking, since obviously girl on girl porn is a very normal thing for guys, so you would assume the reverse holds true for females. Obviously not, however.
Also: how to you play a femshep and not go for Garrus? He is awesome. My husband makes jokes about his "barbed dick" all of the time.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
The first dude I ever had sex with was super interested in what kind of porn I masturbated to, and I told him. And from that he always assumed that if I masturbated to something, then that means I wanted to have it happen to me. I never understood this attitude, and I never will. The fact is when he tried to introduce some of that stuff into our bed , most of the time I didn't like it. I don't know how much specifics it would be OK to get into here, so I won't.
When I watch porn, most of the time it's as a voyeur. I like to watch it, not because I want that done to me, but because of the idea (real or not) that the person in the video is enjoying it. Seeing or hearing someone get off is erotic, by itself, whoever they are.
This post wins all the awards.
The worst part about that dude was that when I told him I didn't want him to do that stuff, that I just liked watching the porn I didn't want it to happen to me, he didn't believe me. He kept saying "You don't have to feel embarrassed about it! It's OK if you want that to happen!" God what a tool he was.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
I was genuinely disappointed when I finally got around to watching gay porn and discovered it did nothing for me. It would have made me so much more interesting.
Yeah, this is me.
This episode was fantastic, felt a lot like one of the old podcasts where the guys just chill and talk about random stuff.
This episode is probably one of my top favorites now. Jerry even more.
When I watch porn, most of the time it's as a voyeur. I like to watch it, not because I want that done to me, but because of the idea (real or not) that the person in the video is enjoying it. Seeing or hearing someone get off is erotic, by itself, whoever they are.
THIS. So perfect. I'm a little over a 1 on the kinsey scale, which I feel this episode was a decent example of in terms of sexual arousal opposed to sexual experience.
I've had a similar but flipped discussion with a friend where I can find gay male porn erotic. To me, it's two dicks! four balls! But to her, there's no woman for her to identify with. But with lesbian porn, there's no man for her to desire.
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MichaelLCIn what furnace was thy brain?ChicagoRegistered Userregular
The worst part about that dude was that when I told him I didn't want him to do that stuff, that I just liked watching the porn I didn't want it to happen to me, he didn't believe me. He kept saying "You don't have to feel embarrassed about it! It's OK if you want that to happen!" God what a tool he was.
Sounds like he didn't understand that porn is fantasy which can be very different than what you like day-to-day. I bet he'd have gotten jealous if you said you thought of a celebrity when you were together - "So you want him/her instead of me!?"
I like viewing/reading a variety of things, but almost none of that makes it into real life. For one, it's cost-prohibitive; sourcing healthy nightingales gets expensive.
I think gay porn is less accepted than lesbian porn in part because our society has a severe case of the "not-gays" (ie, "Are you gay?" "What? Me? No! Never! Ugh! DEFINITELY NOT. Nope. Nuh-uh. No. No. Ugh. Definitely not. No.") and also because it tends to be messier and, ah, hairier.
There's no mystery here. Male on male porn has been less acceptable among the public precise because straight males still carry most of the privilege and hence are the most vocal/heard on the matter. Fortunately attitudes are shifting, and fewer and fewer men are uptight about some dudes getting it on with each other.
Honestly I always assumed Jerry was bi. I didn't think it was a secret or anything, but I guess he doesn't consider himself bi. He watches gay porn, he is aroused by pictures of penis, he enjoys pegging or at least has experimented with it. I mean, come on now! But I guess ultimately you can argue the categories we put people in are mainly arbitrary.
well if you have the ability to reduce your point down to a single, poignant sentence why didn't you do that two posts ago? If were you, that's what I would have led with and then elaborated if I had to. I mean, forgiving the fact that your point there is hopelessly wrong, but that's neither here nor there.
again, another reason to why I don't normally spend time on forums.
Maybe the reason you don't spend time on forums is because you have a horrible attitude and the other people on the forums shun you for it.
It's one of the things I've always loved about Mass Effect... that by the nature of character creation, you are NEVER defined by your gender, race, or sexual preferences. It is a little sad that they didn't open up gay sex for ME1 (and the lines for it were even recorded, so I have no idea why they didn't just go for it).
But as for the sex scenes being non-explicit, they've been that way since about ME2. I guess they were afraid of controversy? Anyway, Jerry and Mike can at least rest at ease that all of my Garrus sex scenes were just as distant and unrevealing as the gay sex was.
They recorded all the lines? I wonder about this, because apparently the reason there's no same-sex "romances" in SW:TOR is because in the planning phase they decided scripting the romance-able companion characters so any player could choose any of them and recording all that dialogue for both genders would be too complicated. But when you consider that they did all that anyway for every other aspect of the game, it sort of indicates that they were just afraid of the controversy.
Honestly I always assumed Jerry was bi. I didn't think it was a secret or anything, but I guess he doesn't consider himself bi. He watches gay porn, he is aroused by pictures of penis, he enjoys pegging or at least has experimented with it. I mean, come on now! But I guess ultimately you can argue the categories we put people in are mainly arbitrary.
Pegging just FYI has nothing to do with homosexuality.
It's one of the things I've always loved about Mass Effect... that by the nature of character creation, you are NEVER defined by your gender, race, or sexual preferences. It is a little sad that they didn't open up gay sex for ME1 (and the lines for it were even recorded, so I have no idea why they didn't just go for it).
But as for the sex scenes being non-explicit, they've been that way since about ME2. I guess they were afraid of controversy? Anyway, Jerry and Mike can at least rest at ease that all of my Garrus sex scenes were just as distant and unrevealing as the gay sex was.
They recorded all the lines?
For Mass effect? Yep, they sure did. In fact, some people modded their characters so that their Sheps could pursue a same-gender romance. The only part that doesn't work is the actual nekkid parts (wherein your male-on-male action is switched out for Ash or something). Everything else is there.
I am a homosexual guy and I'm with mike on this one. Most Gay porn just doesn't do it for me, Usually it two body builders going at it. What I enjoy is a kind of manly guy, and a less manly guy going at it. So gay porn just isn't made that way that I can find, but I do enjoy gay sex a hell of a lot.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
sidenote: I watched this episode with my fiancee and the first thing she said was "Jerry looks like he's lost weight."
Though I fear the recurring, "Maybe everyone is bisexual!" train of thought.
No, they aren't.
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FramlingFaceHeadGeebs has bad ideas.Registered Userregular
JERRY: When you're lookin' at people doin' stuff, who do you like to see?
MIKE: I like to see a human and a human, or... asari.
JERRY: Okay. Well, I've just added one more thing.
you're = you are
your = belonging to you
their = belonging to them
there = not here
they're = they are
I would definitely like to see more 4th panels in this style. The ancillary dialogue between Mike and Jerry is the whole reason I love listening to the old podcasts so much. The commentary is often as interesting if not more so than the actual comic creation process it accompanies.
Loved Jerry's honesty in this episode. He's just a real genuine guy and probably one of my favorite people on this planet. However, I am quite taken aback by Jerry's comment on the FemShep/Garrus pairing being gross, especially considering someposts and certaincomics. I honestly expected his reaction to be more along the lines of, "Wow, that is super interesting."
I just finished up Mass Effect 3 over the weekend with my primary Shepard, who just so happens to be female with a Garrus romance carried over from ME2. The act was even less explicit than the human and asari offerings, but the whole relationship was very touching and even got me choked up at a certain part. All character interactions in the game in general are fantastically done. Bioware really knocked it out of the park in that respect.
In everyday life, most people don't really think twice about this kinda thing. IE: you hire a new guy at work. he happens to be gay and the break room is met with a resounding "meh". It's not a big deal for most people in the real world
There are still many locations and many fields of work in which this is overwhelmingly not the case. That probably answers your question about why mass entertainment is handling this so poorly - it has to have wide appeal, and the lowest denominator (or entertainment producers' idea of them) is still very not-ok with thinking about gays like they're human beings.
The general absence of these kind of completely non-comic related conversations in Fourth Panel is a big part of why I still massively prefer the podcasts they used to do (and wish they'd put out every once in a while again.)
Yeah I'll make a forum id for this episode in specific. This episode was fantastic. Jerry continues to amaze. It's amazing to think there's still things those two don't know about each other, the tension in this episode was palpable, yet Jerry still makes me lol. Favorite PATV episode used to be very contested, this wins by a landslide. Only the "giving nets to fish" episode comes close.
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dizavinVancouver, British ColumbiaRegistered Userregular
It wasn't much of a comedy yet you acknowledge how popular it was? Sounds like a successful comedy. I get that you didn't care for it, but it was clearly successful.
hostile? nope. that's all in your head, my friend.
You're just wrong, is all. Normal people aren't boring. This is a late reply, I know.. but I don't usually do the forum thing.
But the reason after reading the comic since 2001, finally registering for the forums. I was a little disappointed that no one thought of the wording "man the helm" would have been the piece de' resistance to the strip.
Really, Ron White said it best "Everyone is just a little bit gay". We may not directly desire the same sex, but the sexual act regardless of specifics has a certain weight that we humans resonate with, to varying degrees.
I would imagine the captain would get more fulfillment in the role reversal, then again it is probably about all the back-story that led up to that point that would define the Captain Shepard of the moment.
This episode was fantastic! I obviously am late to the party, but I felt a need to chime in.
I'm a lesbian and I like gay porn...and straight porn...and lesbian porn. It depends a lot more on the circumstances than the gender of the people involved. That doesn't mean I have any interest in having sex with men. Kudos to Jerry for being totally comfortable with himself.
Also Mike talking about avoiding looking at dick in porn is pretty funny. I can't conceptualize avoiding a part of the porn. I just like to take it all in (that's what she said). Also, for a person who avoid looking at dicks, he's pretty into drawing dicks. I'm not saying that as a bad thing, I'm just saying he definitely likes cartoon dick.
Posts
This post wins all the awards.
I found that highly amusing as well. And given the astounding diversity of tastes I'm sure there are people who disagree.
I also think Jerry was being serious. It does mesh well with his previous written posts on finding narrative and variety interesting. But who knows.
Jerry's aplomb when discussing this topic is admirable. Regardless of his tastes, it's his attitude toward the topic; it's ideal. And I'm very pleased to see even in this one post how people were positively affected by seeing it. My hopes are high that this (attitude, not particular preference) is, and will be, becoming more and more the norm, despite some rather vocal opposition.
I could say "I know, right?" to 10 other posts in this thread but I'll stop now. Just, cheers.
And also to answer Jerry's entreaty in his post 9 March: Yes. More please. If they're even half as serious, and/or moving, and/or thought-provoking as this one, hell yes more.
Also: how to you play a femshep and not go for Garrus? He is awesome. My husband makes jokes about his "barbed dick" all of the time.
The worst part about that dude was that when I told him I didn't want him to do that stuff, that I just liked watching the porn I didn't want it to happen to me, he didn't believe me. He kept saying "You don't have to feel embarrassed about it! It's OK if you want that to happen!" God what a tool he was.
Yeah, this is me.
This episode was fantastic, felt a lot like one of the old podcasts where the guys just chill and talk about random stuff.
THIS. So perfect. I'm a little over a 1 on the kinsey scale, which I feel this episode was a decent example of in terms of sexual arousal opposed to sexual experience.
I've had a similar but flipped discussion with a friend where I can find gay male porn erotic. To me, it's two dicks! four balls! But to her, there's no woman for her to identify with. But with lesbian porn, there's no man for her to desire.
Sounds like he didn't understand that porn is fantasy which can be very different than what you like day-to-day. I bet he'd have gotten jealous if you said you thought of a celebrity when you were together - "So you want him/her instead of me!?"
I like viewing/reading a variety of things, but almost none of that makes it into real life. For one, it's cost-prohibitive; sourcing healthy nightingales gets expensive.
figure that shit out
Maybe the reason you don't spend time on forums is because you have a horrible attitude and the other people on the forums shun you for it.
There...a single, poignant sentence.
They recorded all the lines? I wonder about this, because apparently the reason there's no same-sex "romances" in SW:TOR is because in the planning phase they decided scripting the romance-able companion characters so any player could choose any of them and recording all that dialogue for both genders would be too complicated. But when you consider that they did all that anyway for every other aspect of the game, it sort of indicates that they were just afraid of the controversy.
Pegging just FYI has nothing to do with homosexuality.
For Mass effect? Yep, they sure did. In fact, some people modded their characters so that their Sheps could pursue a same-gender romance. The only part that doesn't work is the actual nekkid parts (wherein your male-on-male action is switched out for Ash or something). Everything else is there.
Example of a modded DudeShep with Kaidan romance dialog:
I mean it even has Meer saying to Liara (when she tries to get together with him), "That won't happen. I'm only interested in men."
Though I fear the recurring, "Maybe everyone is bisexual!" train of thought.
No, they aren't.
MIKE: I like to see a human and a human, or... asari.
JERRY: Okay. Well, I've just added one more thing.
your = belonging to you
their = belonging to them
there = not here
they're = they are
I would definitely like to see more 4th panels in this style. The ancillary dialogue between Mike and Jerry is the whole reason I love listening to the old podcasts so much. The commentary is often as interesting if not more so than the actual comic creation process it accompanies.
Loved Jerry's honesty in this episode. He's just a real genuine guy and probably one of my favorite people on this planet. However, I am quite taken aback by Jerry's comment on the FemShep/Garrus pairing being gross, especially considering some posts and certain comics. I honestly expected his reaction to be more along the lines of, "Wow, that is super interesting."
I just finished up Mass Effect 3 over the weekend with my primary Shepard, who just so happens to be female with a Garrus romance carried over from ME2. The act was even less explicit than the human and asari offerings, but the whole relationship was very touching and even got me choked up at a certain part. All character interactions in the game in general are fantastically done. Bioware really knocked it out of the park in that respect.
There are still many locations and many fields of work in which this is overwhelmingly not the case. That probably answers your question about why mass entertainment is handling this so poorly - it has to have wide appeal, and the lowest denominator (or entertainment producers' idea of them) is still very not-ok with thinking about gays like they're human beings.
hostile? nope. that's all in your head, my friend.
You're just wrong, is all. Normal people aren't boring. This is a late reply, I know.. but I don't usually do the forum thing.
But the reason after reading the comic since 2001, finally registering for the forums. I was a little disappointed that no one thought of the wording "man the helm" would have been the piece de' resistance to the strip.
Really, Ron White said it best "Everyone is just a little bit gay". We may not directly desire the same sex, but the sexual act regardless of specifics has a certain weight that we humans resonate with, to varying degrees.
I would imagine the captain would get more fulfillment in the role reversal, then again it is probably about all the back-story that led up to that point that would define the Captain Shepard of the moment.
Hmm, I may have given that too much thought.
I'm a lesbian and I like gay porn...and straight porn...and lesbian porn. It depends a lot more on the circumstances than the gender of the people involved. That doesn't mean I have any interest in having sex with men. Kudos to Jerry for being totally comfortable with himself.
Also Mike talking about avoiding looking at dick in porn is pretty funny. I can't conceptualize avoiding a part of the porn. I just like to take it all in (that's what she said). Also, for a person who avoid looking at dicks, he's pretty into drawing dicks. I'm not saying that as a bad thing, I'm just saying he definitely likes cartoon dick.
I'm just going to leave this one here: Vagwolf.