Why do no pro Zergs put an Overlord over their natural as it's building?
Is there really that much of a downside to it? because the advantages are obvious and kind of important, occasionally.
In ZvT, zergs send their 2nd OL to their nat to prevent bunker pressure. In the other two match-ups, it's not necessary. In ZvZ, you want your OLs giving you vision of the rush path asap, and in ZvP, you don't hatch first unless you want cannons to the face. If you do go hatch first in ZvP, you have to send out 1-2 drones to chase the scouting probe anyways.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
I just wanted to say that I saw a lot of hydralisk hate in here today, and I won a ZvP today with 40+ hydralisks. They are the bees knees
I wish hydras were a bit more durable
then i would probably ONLY make hydras ever
how i wish for a tier one unit that can shoot up and down
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Hydras are pretty good. But I don't think they do particularly better than roaches in any given situation to make up for their higher cost, slower speed, and their more-easily-countered-ness.
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TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
If they're worse than a T1 Unit in every situation, I think that makes them complete shit -_-
If they're worse than a T1 Unit in every situation, I think that makes them complete shit -_-
agree
I only build hydras to counter massive stargate play or in ZvZ where my bread and butter composition is roach/hydra because everyone loves mutas for some reason
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
All I'm saying is that as a Protoss player, mass roach scares me way more than mass roach hydra, because its way less easily hard countered.
I follow this build. I feel like I'm reasonably crisp in executing it. I have like, 600 min banked up before I even finish the factory. This feels wrong. What am I supposed to be doing with all these mins in the mean time?
Is this just an unspoken thing with Terran builds? "Make dudes while you're building?" Also, with Terran builds, do you build upon reaching the noted supply, or with that SCV? Example, if it says "10 Depot", am I starting production on an SCV, which increases the supply counter to 10, and then using another SCV to start the Depot, or am I using that 10th SCV to build the Depot when it pops?
Is this just an unspoken thing with Terran builds? "Make dudes while you're building?" Also, with Terran builds, do you build upon reaching the noted supply, or with that SCV? Example, if it says "10 Depot", am I starting production on an SCV, which increases the supply counter to 10, and then using another SCV to start the Depot, or am I using that 10th SCV to build the Depot when it pops?
As soon as you've queued the 10th scv, start the depot.
Is this just an unspoken thing with Terran builds? "Make dudes while you're building?" Also, with Terran builds, do you build upon reaching the noted supply, or with that SCV? Example, if it says "10 Depot", am I starting production on an SCV, which increases the supply counter to 10, and then using another SCV to start the Depot, or am I using that 10th SCV to build the Depot when it pops?
This one should be self explanetory when you look at the build times (Depot build time > SCV build time). Build the depot as soon as you can afford it after the supply counter hits 10 as you want to be building workers constantly.
Is this just an unspoken thing with Terran builds? "Make dudes while you're building?" Also, with Terran builds, do you build upon reaching the noted supply, or with that SCV? Example, if it says "10 Depot", am I starting production on an SCV, which increases the supply counter to 10, and then using another SCV to start the Depot, or am I using that 10th SCV to build the Depot when it pops?
nearly every build you will find assumes fairly constant production from your buildings
a detailed build order will often specify them, but a shorthand one assumes a certain amount of pre-existing knowledge
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
maybe i'm alone in this, but i really like the new TL layout
I like that results are uploaded almost instantly to the front page
when marineking won winter arena and his face was plastered on the front page 5 mins later it was a really cool feeling
makes up for the fact that sometimes it seems like GSL Finals happen in a live report thread and nowhere else until 2 weeks later when a writer does an article on them.
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marty_0001I am a fileand you put documents in meRegistered Userregular
I have that same problem with build orders, I have all this extra money lying around. Like it will say 17 core, but I will have enough money for a 15 core without interrupting probe production.
The 4gate listed on Liquipedia is an example: it says when the proxy pylon finishes, I should warp in enough stalkers to take me up to max supply of 34 (I think?). But well before that, I've got so much money. Why shouldn't I just spend it on an extra pylon so I have enough supply to warp in more stalkers before the first ones die? Or build a second gas so I can actually warp in more stalkers instead of zealots?
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
you may have another pylon building when you hit cap. that's common.
also make sure your chrono is on time or everything will be thrown off.
I have that same problem with build orders, I have all this extra money lying around. Like it will say 17 core, but I will have enough money for a 15 core without interrupting probe production.
The 4gate listed on Liquipedia is an example: it says when the proxy pylon finishes, I should warp in enough stalkers to take me up to max supply of 34 (I think?). But well before that, I've got so much money. Why shouldn't I just spend it on an extra pylon so I have enough supply to warp in more stalkers before the first ones die? Or build a second gas so I can actually warp in more stalkers instead of zealots?
You may be slightly off in your build order
If a build order is followed super tightly, then generally when it says to make all the units, you will suddenly have, like, no money. At least in my experience when I follow build orders (such as for all ins) then I suddenly have no money when I make the 10 or so roaches the build order demands. I know I messed up, in fact, if I am short.
That said, not all build orders are 100% efficient
so, what's up with the 2gate robo all ins or something
Just faced two in a row. I lost to the first one because it was done by a random player (sigh) and I overdroned
Second one I crushed with some spines and zerglings and was SOOOO far ahead that I just made mutas for the hell of it, trashed them, then A-moved a gazillion roaches to his base because I had 4 bases to his 2
I have that same problem with build orders, I have all this extra money lying around. Like it will say 17 core, but I will have enough money for a 15 core without interrupting probe production.
The 4gate listed on Liquipedia is an example: it says when the proxy pylon finishes, I should warp in enough stalkers to take me up to max supply of 34 (I think?). But well before that, I've got so much money. Why shouldn't I just spend it on an extra pylon so I have enough supply to warp in more stalkers before the first ones die? Or build a second gas so I can actually warp in more stalkers instead of zealots?
you should have a cap of 42 supply when you deeply your warp Gates.
I have that same problem with build orders, I have all this extra money lying around. Like it will say 17 core, but I will have enough money for a 15 core without interrupting probe production.
Most builds have you chrono twice on the Nexus before that core. That could explain the extra money.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I have that same problem with build orders, I have all this extra money lying around. Like it will say 17 core, but I will have enough money for a 15 core without interrupting probe production.
Most builds have you chrono twice on the Nexus before that core. That could explain the extra money.
And a lot of builds don't specify those chronos because they are the norm for nearly every gate->core opening.
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marty_0001I am a fileand you put documents in meRegistered Userregular
Yeah see I figured 2 chrono's was a given, but the page is a little conflicting. It says "Use 5 chrono's on the warpgate research, which means you can only chrono your probes once." under the build order. But under the PvP section it says use 4.
I have that same problem with build orders, I have all this extra money lying around. Like it will say 17 core, but I will have enough money for a 15 core without interrupting probe production.
The 4gate listed on Liquipedia is an example: it says when the proxy pylon finishes, I should warp in enough stalkers to take me up to max supply of 34 (I think?). But well before that, I've got so much money. Why shouldn't I just spend it on an extra pylon so I have enough supply to warp in more stalkers before the first ones die? Or build a second gas so I can actually warp in more stalkers instead of zealots?
you should have a cap of 42 supply when you deeply your warp Gates.
Where's the extra pylon squid!
The more tightly you execute the build order the better, but this is a little at odds of "take with a grain of salt and occasionally improvise".
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
to pull off a successful PvP 4gate the key is generally speed rather than subtlety. You want to bumrush the ramp with your first zealot, stalker, and probe. lay a pylon on the bottom and run up the ramp with all three units on a-move. Then plant a pylon at the top with a probe.
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marty_0001I am a fileand you put documents in meRegistered Userregular
Liquipedia has failed me with these tips
If there are replays available demonstrating things correctly that would be ace
If there are replays available demonstrating things correctly that would be ace
Liquipedia is pretty rubbish.
I might actually make up a series of replays demonstrating a precise execution of a few common Protoss builds.
We still have that wiki thing up for you to post stuff there if you want.
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
RedOne that video is bad because it doesn't tell you to proxy the pylon until after warpgate is done
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marty_0001I am a fileand you put documents in meRegistered Userregular
It sure looks better than the liquipedia one. I had looked up some youtubes of the 4gate but wasn't sure if any of them were current after that warpgate nerf, ages ago. I can't remember when that was, but like that one is April 2011 so maybe it's old?
If there are replays available demonstrating things correctly that would be ace
Liquipedia is pretty rubbish.
I might actually make up a series of replays demonstrating a precise execution of a few common Protoss builds.
Help us Dhal wan Kenobi, you're our only hope
Seriously it's been impressed upon me that following build orders exactly will help me out a lot, but if the orders are no good then what's a silver to do?
Posts
In ZvT, zergs send their 2nd OL to their nat to prevent bunker pressure. In the other two match-ups, it's not necessary. In ZvZ, you want your OLs giving you vision of the rush path asap, and in ZvP, you don't hatch first unless you want cannons to the face. If you do go hatch first in ZvP, you have to send out 1-2 drones to chase the scouting probe anyways.
B.net: Kusanku
I wish hydras were a bit more durable
then i would probably ONLY make hydras ever
how i wish for a tier one unit that can shoot up and down
agree
I only build hydras to counter massive stargate play or in ZvZ where my bread and butter composition is roach/hydra because everyone loves mutas for some reason
you're right
we're just bitching
poor hydras
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1Rax_1Fact_1Port
I follow this build. I feel like I'm reasonably crisp in executing it. I have like, 600 min banked up before I even finish the factory. This feels wrong. What am I supposed to be doing with all these mins in the mean time?
As soon as you've queued the 10th scv, start the depot.
This one should be self explanetory when you look at the build times (Depot build time > SCV build time). Build the depot as soon as you can afford it after the supply counter hits 10 as you want to be building workers constantly.
When I take my third base and it's building, I should be building lots of drones so that I can saturate as soon as it finishes, right?
yugioh had some weird pause situation last night
nearly every build you will find assumes fairly constant production from your buildings
a detailed build order will often specify them, but a shorthand one assumes a certain amount of pre-existing knowledge
I like that results are uploaded almost instantly to the front page
when marineking won winter arena and his face was plastered on the front page 5 mins later it was a really cool feeling
makes up for the fact that sometimes it seems like GSL Finals happen in a live report thread and nowhere else until 2 weeks later when a writer does an article on them.
The 4gate listed on Liquipedia is an example: it says when the proxy pylon finishes, I should warp in enough stalkers to take me up to max supply of 34 (I think?). But well before that, I've got so much money. Why shouldn't I just spend it on an extra pylon so I have enough supply to warp in more stalkers before the first ones die? Or build a second gas so I can actually warp in more stalkers instead of zealots?
also make sure your chrono is on time or everything will be thrown off.
You may be slightly off in your build order
If a build order is followed super tightly, then generally when it says to make all the units, you will suddenly have, like, no money. At least in my experience when I follow build orders (such as for all ins) then I suddenly have no money when I make the 10 or so roaches the build order demands. I know I messed up, in fact, if I am short.
That said, not all build orders are 100% efficient
Just faced two in a row. I lost to the first one because it was done by a random player (sigh) and I overdroned
Second one I crushed with some spines and zerglings and was SOOOO far ahead that I just made mutas for the hell of it, trashed them, then A-moved a gazillion roaches to his base because I had 4 bases to his 2
you should have a cap of 42 supply when you deeply your warp Gates.
Most builds have you chrono twice on the Nexus before that core. That could explain the extra money.
And a lot of builds don't specify those chronos because they are the norm for nearly every gate->core opening.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/4_Warpgate_Rush
Where's the extra pylon squid!
The more tightly you execute the build order the better, but this is a little at odds of "take with a grain of salt and occasionally improvise".
I guess it's a balancing act.
what if it dies
If there are replays available demonstrating things correctly that would be ace
May God have mercy upon my drones.
Liquipedia is pretty rubbish.
I might actually make up a series of replays demonstrating a precise execution of a few common Protoss builds.
liquipedia is kinda bad, just about every build that I do now i either learned by watching pros/talking to you guys.
We still have that wiki thing up for you to post stuff there if you want.
Help us Dhal wan Kenobi, you're our only hope
Seriously it's been impressed upon me that following build orders exactly will help me out a lot, but if the orders are no good then what's a silver to do?