Different definitions of skill, then. I don't personally think that you're a good player just because your opponents play badly against you, but ok.
if you consistently think someone is terrible while they consistently win for like a year at the top level tournament in the world, maybe you have a bias
If we're talking about his PvZ then he doesn't consistently win at all. In fact he almost consistently loses.
So only having half watched that game, I am curious to know why he didn't warp in templars sooner. Was it simply because he needed to replenish his sentries and stalkers constantly or did I miss something?
@marty_0001 and anyone else who wants to benefit from this
i took the liberty of running through four builds and saving the replays for educational use.
PvP - 4gate
This is just a completely standard 4gate with no frills.
PvZ - Forge FE + Stargate
This is the safest Forge FE opening. The followup, the stargate, is largely a matter of preference - some people prefer to open with heavy zealot pressure. I like the stargate because its lower risk and gets you a bit more used to countering. The timings on all buildings up until I lay the robotics facility are all fairly important - particularly the gas timing. Lay the gas when your gateway is 50% done, or you won't be able to get the stargate and sentries too. I ended up playing this game out to completion - you can sort of stop paying attention by the end.
PvT
Two builds here!
First - a 2gate robo expand.
This is a really safe build against any Terran build that gets gas when you scout them. You'll have a nice fast observer to enable you to cancel your Nexus if you scout some sort of all-in, and having that fast observer also means that you'll get a lot of practise in identifying what a Terran is doing, because you'll see it all and be able to learn similarities between builds.
Secondly - a 1gate FE build.
The particular build I did here is a little bit outdated, but I think its the best for a new player to learn. The other variants tend to sacrifice more earlier units in favour of a quicker nexus, which can be a death sentence if you aren't comfortable with your micro. This variation gets a lot more units out more quickly and sacrifices some chrono on probes and gets a slower Nexus to do so. You can adjust the timings on it with experience.
Aww yesss thanks Dhal! I'm gonna be all over these.
About a month of work using only the assets provided by UDK. Well, my voice for the announcer, but everything else provided by the engine. Not bad for someone who doesn't want to design levels for a living.
Edit: Wow, I forgot that I uploaded my first attempt at a UDK level from last year. What a difference a year makes.
Watching Apollo's Terran vids. There is no build order here beyond:
10 Depot
12 Rax
Anything beyond that changes from game to game, even if it's the same matchup.
That doesn't sound right. Terran tends to have fairly rigid build orders in the early game.
I think Apollo does a bunch of builds in his videos. So not necessarily good to understand consistency of builds over many games, but instead good to see the breadth of what terran can do.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
Well, watching him in, say, TvT, in the first match, he'll go 10 Depot, 12 Rax, then build the next depot with the Rax SCV at, oh, 15-ish, then drop a Refinery at 17. Next TvT, he'll go 10 Depot, 12 Rax, scout with that SCV, build the depot with a different SCV at 14, then Refinery at 16.
It's not consistent enough to write down; it almost seems more dependent on mins in the bank than SCV count.
*edit* The frustrating thing is, as a new player, there is NO TRUSTED RESOURCE for safe, fully-detailed, "learning" builds that can be used in the current patch level and metagame. How the hell am I supposed to learn to play when I can't find a suggested build order to start with, let alone any explanations as to why you do things in that order. I can make guesses, sure, but stub builds and tribal knowledge don't help. How the fuck am I supposed to know this shit?
Well, watching him in, say, TvT, in the first match, he'll go 10 Depot, 12 Rax, then build the next depot with the Rax SCV at, oh, 15-ish, then drop a Refinery at 17. Next TvT, he'll go 10 Depot, 12 Rax, scout with that SCV, build the depot with a different SCV at 14, then Refinery at 16.
It's not consistent enough to write down; it almost seems more dependent on mins in the bank than SCV count.
This sounds really weird. It is rare that you won't open 10 depot, 12 rax, 13 gas, 15OC, 16 depot. That is far and away the most standard Terran opening and you need a good reason to change it.
@Houn, personally I find it way easier to learn from watching replays than reading build orders or watching vods. If you're still interested in learning 1-1-1:
Thorzain doing a very safe Banshee expand.
Bomber doing a standard Banshee expand against Mvp doing a greedy one.
I get limited playtime, so I've been using downtime at work to try to find builds to try out when I actually get a chance to play. Like, maybe an hour or two every few days. I guess I could watch replays, but that would further cut into playtime, since I can't do that at work.
Also, I don't even know what 1-1-1 is, or if I should be interested in it.
I have that same problem with build orders, I have all this extra money lying around. Like it will say 17 core, but I will have enough money for a 15 core without interrupting probe production.
Is that core at 15 a real example? If that is the case, you should post a replay of how and when you come into that situation, because its wrong.
I follow this build. I feel like I'm reasonably crisp in executing it. I have like, 600 min banked up before I even finish the factory. This feels wrong. What am I supposed to be doing with all these mins in the mean time?
I get limited playtime, so I've been using downtime at work to try to find builds to try out when I actually get a chance to play. Like, maybe an hour or two every few days. I guess I could watch replays, but that would further cut into playtime, since I can't do that at work.
Also, I don't even know what 1-1-1 is, or if I should be interested in it.
When your mins start to pile up in this build you throw down two more rax (this after building a reactor on first rax) so you're pumping 1 tank, 1 banshee, 4 marines off 1 base.
For fast banshees, build a tech lab on the factory while the starport is going up and swap at 100%.
Typically you can banshee harass into an expand, then barracks 2+3. Pushing with 2 banshees, 2 tanks with siege mode and ~12 marines is also quite strong.
A good vP build is a 1rax fast expand:
10 depot
12 rax
15 orbital, marine (1) then halt marine production
16 depot @400 minerals command center (typically in your base)
Resume marine production @100% command center -> orbital
21 rax 2+3, bunker at the natural @100% orbital float it down to the natural
I typically take the first two gas around 25 food and the next two around 35-40. Get a factory with a reactor, starport, swap the reactor to the starport and float the factory to scout.
Getting your first gas at 16/17 is a mostly Korean thing for a faster expansion and later tech than a 13 gas, but a later expansion and faster tech than a regular gasless FE. It gets used most often in greedy Reactor Hellion expands.
I wouldn't worry about the 3-4 worker benefit over a 13 gas at this point.
10 Depot
12 Rax
17 Depot
17 Refinery
17 OC
19 CC, but that last two supply was Marines, not SCVs.
23 Factory
24 Depot
I stopped trying to write it down at that point.
Oh, so it's a variant on a 1rax expand. That's a bit of an advanced build, better to stick with something like a hellion expand (assuming that was in a TvZ, which might not be the case).
10 depot
12 rax
13 gas
15 OC
16 depot @100 gas factory @50 gas reactor on barracks
21 depot @400 mins CC @100% reactor switch factory onto reactor and produce hellions
This is a safe, macro oriented build that gives you map control with hellions and allows you to transition into any composition you want. If I catch you online, Houn, I'd be willing to run over a few builds with you.
For fast banshees, build a tech lab on the factory while the starport is going up and swap at 100%.
Typically you can banshee harass into an expand, then barracks 2+3. Pushing with 2 banshees, 2 tanks with siege mode and ~12 marines is also quite strong.
The 1-1-1 that was a big deal TvP does not include the bold.
The version I used for that (in the youtube above was)
10 depot 12 rax 13 gax
15 marine (constant production until reactor)
16 Orbital + depot @100 orbital Factory
20 refinery
bunker+reactor at 4 marines
starport once factory is done
build tech lab when factory ~1/3 done
build marines constantly
switch starport to tech lab
start a banshee immediately
start cloak once you have gas (harass with banshee if you want but don't lose it)
2 rax
factory tech lab
Raven
keep building Tank+banshee +4 marines
siege tech once you have gas
go right before siege finishes
Yeah, it's important to distinguish banshee harass into an expand from the one-base all-in. "1-1-1" is normally used to refer to the all-in, though of course banshee harass into an expand involves one each of those buildings.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
So who is going to MLG Columbus this year? I know @Invictus is going, @fadingattheedges is on the fence, and maybe @mastman and @musanman? Send me a PM if you're planning on going.
@marty_0001 and anyone else who wants to benefit from this
i took the liberty of running through four builds and saving the replays for educational use.
PvP - 4gate
This is just a completely standard 4gate with no frills.
PvZ - Forge FE + Stargate
This is the safest Forge FE opening. The followup, the stargate, is largely a matter of preference - some people prefer to open with heavy zealot pressure. I like the stargate because its lower risk and gets you a bit more used to countering. The timings on all buildings up until I lay the robotics facility are all fairly important - particularly the gas timing. Lay the gas when your gateway is 50% done, or you won't be able to get the stargate and sentries too. I ended up playing this game out to completion - you can sort of stop paying attention by the end.
PvT
Two builds here!
First - a 2gate robo expand.
This is a really safe build against any Terran build that gets gas when you scout them. You'll have a nice fast observer to enable you to cancel your Nexus if you scout some sort of all-in, and having that fast observer also means that you'll get a lot of practise in identifying what a Terran is doing, because you'll see it all and be able to learn similarities between builds.
Secondly - a 1gate FE build.
The particular build I did here is a little bit outdated, but I think its the best for a new player to learn. The other variants tend to sacrifice more earlier units in favour of a quicker nexus, which can be a death sentence if you aren't comfortable with your micro. This variation gets a lot more units out more quickly and sacrifices some chrono on probes and gets a slower Nexus to do so. You can adjust the timings on it with experience.
I was just about to ask for some help with my PvZ here and then I saw this. Thanks!
PAX is great, but last I checked, there is no big SC2 tournament at PAX that draws all my favorite pros.
e: That said, this should be changed. Someone really needs to run a PAX tournament. At the very least a big show match. You're entire target audience is right there, and I bet some of them don't even know they'd enjoy watching competitive StarCraft until they saw it in person.
Posts
it seemed to me we were talking overall
So only having half watched that game, I am curious to know why he didn't warp in templars sooner. Was it simply because he needed to replenish his sentries and stalkers constantly or did I miss something?
ultraliskuuuuu~
Aww yesss thanks Dhal! I'm gonna be all over these.
I guess I'll have to learn some actual build orders so I don't lose to some 2-rax scv all-in like I did yesterday
B.net: Kusanku
Also - I think Jinro might have the worst issues with tilting i've ever seen. Actually worried about the gorilla terran :S
About a month of work using only the assets provided by UDK. Well, my voice for the announcer, but everything else provided by the engine. Not bad for someone who doesn't want to design levels for a living.
Edit: Wow, I forgot that I uploaded my first attempt at a UDK level from last year. What a difference a year makes.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
10 Depot
12 Rax
Anything beyond that changes from game to game, even if it's the same matchup.
That doesn't sound right. Terran tends to have fairly rigid build orders in the early game.
I think Apollo does a bunch of builds in his videos. So not necessarily good to understand consistency of builds over many games, but instead good to see the breadth of what terran can do.
It's not consistent enough to write down; it almost seems more dependent on mins in the bank than SCV count.
*edit* The frustrating thing is, as a new player, there is NO TRUSTED RESOURCE for safe, fully-detailed, "learning" builds that can be used in the current patch level and metagame. How the hell am I supposed to learn to play when I can't find a suggested build order to start with, let alone any explanations as to why you do things in that order. I can make guesses, sure, but stub builds and tribal knowledge don't help. How the fuck am I supposed to know this shit?
This sounds really weird. It is rare that you won't open 10 depot, 12 rax, 13 gas, 15OC, 16 depot. That is far and away the most standard Terran opening and you need a good reason to change it.
Thorzain doing a very safe Banshee expand.
Bomber doing a standard Banshee expand against Mvp doing a greedy one.
Also, I don't even know what 1-1-1 is, or if I should be interested in it.
Is that core at 15 a real example? If that is the case, you should post a replay of how and when you come into that situation, because its wrong.
To be fair, I picked that build at random just so I'd have something to shoot for while practicing execution.
I learned the 1-1-1 from
When your mins start to pile up in this build you throw down two more rax (this after building a reactor on first rax) so you're pumping 1 tank, 1 banshee, 4 marines off 1 base.
ed
Fixed link
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
10 Depot
12 Rax
17 Depot
17 Refinery
17 OC
19 CC, but that last two supply was Marines, not SCVs.
23 Factory
24 Depot
I stopped trying to write it down at that point.
And yet again.
Maybe he reads this.....
Hai Sheth!!!!
8->
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Standardish 1-1-1 is
10 depot
12 tax
13 refinery
15 orbital command
16 depot
16 refinery
@100 gas, factory
@100% factory, starport
For fast banshees, build a tech lab on the factory while the starport is going up and swap at 100%.
Typically you can banshee harass into an expand, then barracks 2+3. Pushing with 2 banshees, 2 tanks with siege mode and ~12 marines is also quite strong.
A good vP build is a 1rax fast expand:
10 depot
12 rax
15 orbital, marine (1) then halt marine production
16 depot
@400 minerals command center (typically in your base)
Resume marine production
@100% command center -> orbital
21 rax 2+3, bunker at the natural
@100% orbital float it down to the natural
I typically take the first two gas around 25 food and the next two around 35-40. Get a factory with a reactor, starport, swap the reactor to the starport and float the factory to scout.
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
I wouldn't worry about the 3-4 worker benefit over a 13 gas at this point.
Oh, so it's a variant on a 1rax expand. That's a bit of an advanced build, better to stick with something like a hellion expand (assuming that was in a TvZ, which might not be the case).
10 depot
12 rax
13 gas
15 OC
16 depot
@100 gas factory
@50 gas reactor on barracks
21 depot
@400 mins CC
@100% reactor switch factory onto reactor and produce hellions
This is a safe, macro oriented build that gives you map control with hellions and allows you to transition into any composition you want. If I catch you online, Houn, I'd be willing to run over a few builds with you.
The 1-1-1 that was a big deal TvP does not include the bold.
The version I used for that (in the youtube above was)
10 depot 12 rax 13 gax
15 marine (constant production until reactor)
16 Orbital + depot
@100 orbital Factory
20 refinery
bunker+reactor at 4 marines
starport once factory is done
build tech lab when factory ~1/3 done
build marines constantly
switch starport to tech lab
start a banshee immediately
start cloak once you have gas (harass with banshee if you want but don't lose it)
2 rax
factory tech lab
Raven
keep building Tank+banshee +4 marines
siege tech once you have gas
go right before siege finishes
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Steam ID
bestmlg
*cough* majorleaguegaming.com/news/2005-seattle-halo-2-results-2 *cough*
MLG stopped going to that part of the country because a) much more expensive to them
and b) really low west coast turnout at events historically
Steam ID
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Stephano
I was just about to ask for some help with my PvZ here and then I saw this. Thanks!
lol
PAX is great, but last I checked, there is no big SC2 tournament at PAX that draws all my favorite pros.
e: That said, this should be changed. Someone really needs to run a PAX tournament. At the very least a big show match. You're entire target audience is right there, and I bet some of them don't even know they'd enjoy watching competitive StarCraft until they saw it in person.
B.net: Kusanku
oh god who do i watch