It's a tragedy that they cost 10 points, really. I still take them from time to time despite it, but I don't think it's an accurate representation of their abilities. That being said, it's a helluva lot more accurate than trencher infantries points cost.
And as far as merc stuff, I mostly just meant the character units - Nyss, 'Howlers, and to a much lesser degree A&H. And as far as Cygnar goes, Stormblades really cannot compare with Forge Guard. But I'm also kind of sad that steelhead halberdiers are basically better than sword knights.
Questions :
Power Attacks: They cost a focus on a warmachine. Does one focus buy you a power attack at the end of your normal attack sequence, or a power attack that replaces all your normal melee attacks? If you lose all your normal attacks, can you buy a second power attack for two focus(one for an extra attack, and another to upgrade it to a power attack?For Units and solos, can you power attack without a roll, just by announcing it(presuming the model has a listed power attack, since non-jacks don't normally get power attacks?).
Special Attacks (which power attacks are) are one of the four things you can choose to do during your action: special attacks, initial melee attacks, initial ranged attacks, or special actions. You can only do one of those unless you have some special rules that allows you to do more than one of them - for instance Virtuoso allows a model to make its initial ranged and initial melee attacks. You are allowed to buy additional melee attacks after performing a power attack, but note that additional attacks are not equivalent to your initial attacks. You are only ever allowed one chance to make your initial attacks (your combat action), just like you're only allowed one chance to perform a power attack (your combat action).
Don't think of it as 'losing your initial attacks,' you're just choosing what kind of an action you want to perform, and making your initial attacks is one of the potential options available to you.
For units and solos with *Attacks, you just announce and roll the dice. Only Warjacks/beasts are required to spend focus/be forced.
Thanks SJ. I'm sorry about asking so many questions, but the way the Warmachine rule book is laid out is really hard for my mind to wrap around for some reason.
Someone needs to do some Cygnarification of popular merc units. Nyss Hunters become Ranger Hunters, Steelhead Halberdeers become Conscripted Halberdeers, Forgeguard become Storm—wait, no—well, whatever. Sledge Knights? Boomhowler and his gang get some Boy Scout badges on their uniforms...
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I remember seeing a converted unit of Ogruns (I think it might've even been in a NQ) called "Murdoch's Marauders" or something like that. Dude had Trencherized a unit of Ogrun Assault Corps to represent them working with Murdoch for so long.
Which is kinda funny, because I've never actually seen anyone use Ogruns, with or without Murdoch.
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited May 2012
Because I can't really justify keeping it around anymore. I've tried to use it. It's... just so awkward for me and I just don't need it. Maybe if one of those wearable ones I could argue otherwise. I want to sell my clamp-on swing arm magnifier lamp. It's a metal office depot model I got for my birthday a couple years ago. Anyone interested?
Ogruns are fun with Murdoch, to be honest. Assault Charging AOE's ftw. It's like stormblades except the blasts drop no matter what.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Going to play tonight after a month long hiatus. I'm still playing around with eFeora lists and getting the hang of it. The one I have in mind for tonight has Bastions as my front line unit, which is weird cause they're so slow. At 50 points, TFG and Daughters will spear the vanguard.
Vyros, Incissar of the Dawnguard - Retribution Cavalry Epic Warcaster
Feat: Tide of War
When a friendly Faction model is destroyed by an enemy attack, except while advancing, in Vyros's control area, immediately after the attack has been resolved a friendly Faction model in Vyrosʼ control area can make a full advance. A model can only advance once as a result of Tide of War. Tide of War lasts for one round.
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
Special Attacks (which power attacks are) are one of the four things you can choose to do during your action: special attacks, initial melee attacks, initial ranged attacks, or special actions. You can only do one of those unless you have some special rules that allows you to do more than one of them - for instance Virtuoso allows a model to make its initial ranged and initial melee attacks. You are allowed to buy additional melee attacks after performing a power attack, but note that additional attacks are not equivalent to your initial attacks. You are only ever allowed one chance to make your initial attacks (your combat action), just like you're only allowed one chance to perform a power attack (your combat action).
Don't think of it as 'losing your initial attacks,' you're just choosing what kind of an action you want to perform, and making your initial attacks is one of the potential options available to you.
For units and solos with *Attacks, you just announce and roll the dice. Only Warjacks/beasts are required to spend focus/be forced.
just to clarify here (as I understand the game)
You activate, advance and then you can either a) make initial melee attacks, b) make initial ranged attacks c)make a special attack (of which star actions are a subset of and power attacks are a subset of that costs a focus) or d)make another special action specified on your card
You may then, if permitted by weapon's rate of fire and unit type, spend focus or souls or some other token to take additional actions (typically additional melee attacks)
this is the number one point of game flow breakdown in WM games as players often think they can do many power attacks, or in the case of a model like a slayer - with three initial attacks - that they can make two throws and a headbutt for three focus.
They can't do that, but they could apply one of the two more mundane boosts (to hit or damage) to each attack
is all of the above correct? I've been doing it right?
Next question: Something can only be boosted once. Is a boost a specific term, used only when a bonus die is called out as a boost, or is it a general term, referring to all bonus dice and creating a 3d6 cap on all dice pools? Or to put it another way, Venethrax has Dismember, which gives another die of damage against warbeasts. Can I then spend a focus to roll 4d6+P+S damage in melee, or does dismember count as a boost?
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
Next question: Something can only be boosted once. Is a boost a specific term, used only when a bonus die is called out as a boost, or is it a general term, referring to all bonus dice and creating a 3d6 cap on all dice pools? Or to put it another way, Venethrax has Dismember, which gives another die of damage against warbeasts. Can I then spend a focus to roll 4d6+P+S damage in melee, or does dismember count as a boost?
As far as I know, you may have only one boost that costs focus but other named effects that grant more damage stack - for example a warcaster with weapon master may roll 4d6 for one focus. There is definitely no hard cap on the dice pools as I've seen the game played.
You activate, advance and then you can either a) make initial melee attacks, b) make initial ranged attacks c)make a special attack (of which star actions are a subset of and power attacks are a subset of that costs a focus) or d)make another special action specified on your card
You may then, if permitted by weapon's rate of fire and unit type, spend focus or souls or some other token to take additional actions (typically additional melee attacks)
this is the number one point of game flow breakdown in WM games as players often think they can do many power attacks, or in the case of a model like a slayer - with three initial attacks - that they can make two throws and a headbutt for three focus.
They can't do that, but they could apply one of the two more mundane boosts (to hit or damage) to each attack
is all of the above correct? I've been doing it right?
Next question: Something can only be boosted once. Is a boost a specific term, used only when a bonus die is called out as a boost, or is it a general term, referring to all bonus dice and creating a 3d6 cap on all dice pools? Or to put it another way, Venethrax has Dismember, which gives another die of damage against warbeasts. Can I then spend a focus to roll 4d6+P+S damage in melee, or does dismember count as a boost?
Boost is a specific term. Any other term that adds dice can stack with boost.
Vyros, Incissar of the Dawnguard - Retribution Cavalry Epic Warcaster
Feat: Tide of War
When a friendly Faction model is destroyed by an enemy attack, except while advancing, in Vyros's control area, immediately after the attack has been resolved a friendly Faction model in Vyrosʼ control area can make a full advance. A model can only advance once as a result of Tide of War. Tide of War lasts for one round.
This seems...weird. Jam your tarpit into their lines and feat, getting your counter charge lined up? If the feat advance ignored free strikes this could be a sort of cat & mouse. But otherwise I don't see it being so awesome. Depends heavily on the rest of his card.
But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon.
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And yeah, it's kind of weird feat. Definitely more of a thinky-plotty-feat than a autowinbuttonCryx-feat, though. Gotta wait & see what else he's got that can synergize with that. (Probably why they chose THAT to be previewed, since it doesn't really tell us anything.)
Elite Cadre [Dawnguard] - Parry. DO IT.
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My major concern is Vyros being on a large base and having to be within 12" of the model(s) getting killed. That doesn't sound even kind of safe. Maybe he'll be 15/18 and have Windwall (no chance).
And yeah, it's kind of weird feat. Definitely more of a thinky-plotty-feat than a autowinbuttonCryx-feat, though. Gotta wait & see what else he's got that can synergize with that. (Probably why they chose THAT to be previewed, since it doesn't really tell us anything.)
And yeah, it's kind of weird feat. Definitely more of a thinky-plotty-feat than a autowinbuttonCryx-feat, though. Gotta wait & see what else he's got that can synergize with that. (Probably why they chose THAT to be previewed, since it doesn't really tell us anything.)
Elite Cadre [Dawnguard] - Parry. DO IT.
Tell me of this auto win button cryx feat
eDeneghra. Suddenly your entire army (well, the parts in her control) can't move, and Deneghra herself is incorporal and immune to most attacks. Oh look, I just won on scenario because you can't move anything.
pDeneghra. Oh look, your entire army has crap for stats, and everything is walking over you, and/or assassinating your caster.
eGaspy. Remember how you were trying to kill all the stuff in my army? Hey, it's all back and Ghostly. Was more auto-win when they were Incorporeal and immune to free strikes, but still pretty nasty.
eSkarre. Hey, I just got Deathjack/Nightmare in base with your caster. Sure, he had to run to get there so he can't do anything, but he can't be targeted by attacks, and your caster can't make any. Neither can Skarre be targeted, either, btw.
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
those are pretty good feats. You forgot the "call up a unit of banes out of nowhere that get to charge"
tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
Well, that feat tends to be very good in lower point games and less good in larger games. 6 banes is a big deal at 15 or 25 points, much less so at 50, even less so at higher point values. Also the casters I listed have good spell lists and tend to get played even if they didn't have as awesome a feat. pGoreshade is rarely if ever seen on the tabletop IME. I'd also say pSkarre and Terminus have pretty good feats that can be game enders, but they're not quite as broken as the others.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I agree with everything there except the use of the words "broken" and "autowinbutton." :P
OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
Back in MK1, we called eGaspy's feat, when my friend used it, the Rube Goldberg Heaven Or Hell One Turn Sure Win Button. Okay, so I made up everything after Rube Goldberg.
Basically he set it up so he could get himself a win turn 2 with it, though something tells me he actually did this turn 1. Involved killing half his own army, running up stuff, having the Black Ogrun move out and reeling Gaspy in (The hardest part of the entire plan. They have to damage him), then Gaspy activating, charging something up ahead, then feating in a bunch of Soul Hunters and Revenant Crew. Back then, Revenant Crew had a suicidal P+S 15 * Attack that killed them after using it, so it was possible to cram a lot of stuff into the same little space for his feat.
Well, that feat tends to be very good in lower point games and less good in larger games. 6 banes is a big deal at 15 or 25 points, much less so at 50, even less so at higher point values. Also the casters I listed have good spell lists and tend to get played even if they didn't have as awesome a feat. pGoreshade is rarely if ever seen on the tabletop IME. I'd also say pSkarre and Terminus have pretty good feats that can be game enders, but they're not quite as broken as the others.
Where terminus has shone for me has been his general bolstering effect on an army of undead. Mechanithralls and bloat thralls are...problematic when large numbers of them also have tough
The Lock & Load Masters format has had a couple changes implemented. The Preliminaries event on Friday will still be 4 rounds in length, but the top 16 finishers will continue to the Masters Finals on Sunday.
Because of the increase in participants, the Finals event on Sunday will change from 3 rounds to 4 rounds in length. The list requirements will also change from 2 lists to 3 lists, but will continue to have the SR 2012 appendix rule, Divide & Conquer. Registration will now begin at 9am on Sunday.
May 22, 2012Battle Foam at Lock & Load!
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May 21, 2012 Speedmachine now 64!
We have expanded the available seats for Speedmachine to 64 players. Luckily we had the time on the schedule to double the size of this fast paced clash. All the attendees on the waiting list have been automatically entered and at the time of this posting, there are a couple seats left. So act fast if you don't want to be left out!
2010 PAX DM Challenge Grand Champion 2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
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And as far as merc stuff, I mostly just meant the character units - Nyss, 'Howlers, and to a much lesser degree A&H. And as far as Cygnar goes, Stormblades really cannot compare with Forge Guard. But I'm also kind of sad that steelhead halberdiers are basically better than sword knights.
Power Attacks: They cost a focus on a warmachine. Does one focus buy you a power attack at the end of your normal attack sequence, or a power attack that replaces all your normal melee attacks? If you lose all your normal attacks, can you buy a second power attack for two focus(one for an extra attack, and another to upgrade it to a power attack?For Units and solos, can you power attack without a roll, just by announcing it(presuming the model has a listed power attack, since non-jacks don't normally get power attacks?).
Don't think of it as 'losing your initial attacks,' you're just choosing what kind of an action you want to perform, and making your initial attacks is one of the potential options available to you.
For units and solos with *Attacks, you just announce and roll the dice. Only Warjacks/beasts are required to spend focus/be forced.
Which is kinda funny, because I've never actually seen anyone use Ogruns, with or without Murdoch.
Ogruns are fun with Murdoch, to be honest. Assault Charging AOE's ftw. It's like stormblades except the blasts drop no matter what.
From BOLS:
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just to clarify here (as I understand the game)
You activate, advance and then you can either a) make initial melee attacks, b) make initial ranged attacks c)make a special attack (of which star actions are a subset of and power attacks are a subset of that costs a focus) or d)make another special action specified on your card
You may then, if permitted by weapon's rate of fire and unit type, spend focus or souls or some other token to take additional actions (typically additional melee attacks)
this is the number one point of game flow breakdown in WM games as players often think they can do many power attacks, or in the case of a model like a slayer - with three initial attacks - that they can make two throws and a headbutt for three focus.
They can't do that, but they could apply one of the two more mundane boosts (to hit or damage) to each attack
is all of the above correct? I've been doing it right?
I host a podcast about movies.
As far as I know, you may have only one boost that costs focus but other named effects that grant more damage stack - for example a warcaster with weapon master may roll 4d6 for one focus. There is definitely no hard cap on the dice pools as I've seen the game played.
I host a podcast about movies.
This is correct.
Boost is a specific term. Any other term that adds dice can stack with boost.
I host a podcast about movies.
Nemlock for online gaming
2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
And yeah, it's kind of weird feat. Definitely more of a thinky-plotty-feat than a autowinbuttonCryx-feat, though. Gotta wait & see what else he's got that can synergize with that. (Probably why they chose THAT to be previewed, since it doesn't really tell us anything.)
Elite Cadre [Dawnguard] - Parry. DO IT.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Or to shuffle the AFG up the board more/into a better position and still let it aim during it's activation.
Or to yo-yo a jack (say, a Hulk'd out Manticore that just punched out a opposing heavy) back to safety.
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Tell me of this auto win button cryx feat
I host a podcast about movies.
eDeneghra. Suddenly your entire army (well, the parts in her control) can't move, and Deneghra herself is incorporal and immune to most attacks. Oh look, I just won on scenario because you can't move anything.
pDeneghra. Oh look, your entire army has crap for stats, and everything is walking over you, and/or assassinating your caster.
eGaspy. Remember how you were trying to kill all the stuff in my army? Hey, it's all back and Ghostly. Was more auto-win when they were Incorporeal and immune to free strikes, but still pretty nasty.
eSkarre. Hey, I just got Deathjack/Nightmare in base with your caster. Sure, he had to run to get there so he can't do anything, but he can't be targeted by attacks, and your caster can't make any. Neither can Skarre be targeted, either, btw.
I host a podcast about movies.
Basically he set it up so he could get himself a win turn 2 with it, though something tells me he actually did this turn 1. Involved killing half his own army, running up stuff, having the Black Ogrun move out and reeling Gaspy in (The hardest part of the entire plan. They have to damage him), then Gaspy activating, charging something up ahead, then feating in a bunch of Soul Hunters and Revenant Crew. Back then, Revenant Crew had a suicidal P+S 15 * Attack that killed them after using it, so it was possible to cram a lot of stuff into the same little space for his feat.
Verdict:
July 9'th is the new release date.
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Announcing.
Mother.
Fucking.
Release dates.
So goddamn stupid.
Where terminus has shone for me has been his general bolstering effect on an army of undead. Mechanithralls and bloat thralls are...problematic when large numbers of them also have tough
I host a podcast about movies.
Havn't decided if I'm actually playing any WM yet, though.
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Two words: "Farrow Gorax."
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2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
Oh man, that kind of dirtiness makes me actually want to play team games...
Wait what. Link me the new stat cards.
Weird. That's not what I'm seeing. Which one is this? The Thornwood one has other stuff.