I don't know, I found the comic funny enough. I haven't played ME3 (or finished 1 or 2) or paid much attention to the argument around the ending though.
I didn't feel my decisions were invalidated by the end. I also really didn't feel any deus ex machina out of it.
I still know what state I left the galaxy in. I would take more scenes in the ending. But that's the thing: I am always going to want more Mass Effect.
I can agree that the actions of the Normandy and crew at the last moment are a little head scratchy. But it doesn't tarnish my feelings about the game and series in general. (and it's easy enough for me to hand wave away as "Hackett ordered the Normandy away after the crucible didn't fire"
The problem is that you really DON'T know what state you left the galaxy in.
With the mass relays destroyed and the armies of the entire galaxy near earth, how are any of the alien races going to return to their homeworlds? Without the Mass Relays, it would take them decades to move across the galaxy and return to their places of origin, and that's not taking into account food or fuel. Do they all just live on earth now? How will they get food? We know that human food is toxic to some of the alien races so what are they going to do?
Based on data from ME for FTL drives, it would take about 22 years to get end-to-end in the galaxy, however most of the council homeworlds are relatively close to earth (the migrant fleets has probably the longest haul ahead of them, but don't you think spending another 18 years or so getting home is a small price to pay for not getting your species harvested by ancient synthetics?). I'm not saying they don't have some problems, or they don't have rebuilding to do and things to work out, but they aren't insurmountable problems.
Also, I wish more of the discussion on the ending could be like this. Less demanding it be changed and more hypothesizing on what the galaxy does now
Well, here's the thing with that though...
So it takes about 22 years for them to get home right? In the actual game, my ship could go about three solar systems and then I was out of fuel. How the hell are all these ships going to get enough fuel to make it home? Was there some sort of hidden underground fuel supply the reapers didn't destroy in the attack? Nothing is explained!
These are things that probably should have been explained as part of the ending!
I laughed a bit at the comic, because the visual of Wrex holding a birthday cake was a pretty good sight-gag.
It's funnier if I pretend that the comic is a parody of Kotaku's abysmal articles on the subject.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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DVGNo. 1 Honor StudentNether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered Userregular
Wanting them to go over how they'll get fuel is probably expecting too much from the ending. They'll simply have to harvest and build new fuel drops as they travel system to system
Wanting them to go over how they'll get fuel is probably expecting too much from the ending. They'll simply have to harvest and build new fuel drops as they travel system to system
That's a pretty big change to the state of the galaxy and the alien races over the next twenty years. It's expecting a lot, but the ending put that expectation there because of how it plays out. That's why, for me, the ending doesn't have enough closure. Anyway, this conversation is derailing the thread so... yeah... =D
ImAFckingDragn on
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DVGNo. 1 Honor StudentNether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered Userregular
It's a big change, but that's why it's fun to hypothesize
We play games on reprogrammable computers. It's kind of our raison d'être. Why is it such a hard idea to grasp that, if a whole load of people don't like the way the game ended, they ask the developer to look into the whole reprogramming thing? We are sitting at machines purpose-built to revise information, and there's some question over using our equipment for its intended purpose is some unpardonable blasphemy against the content gods?
I've said it a few times, but: What's the difference between Mass Effect 3 and the Gospel According to Saint Mark?
One has an ending that's too sacred to be changed, while the other is part of the Bible.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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AnosognosWho wants to playvideo games?Registered Userregular
All this ending discussion makes me both interested in playing the game and reviling the thought of giving Bioware money for the privilege of possibly being disappointed with the ending.
I also agree with everything Pony is saying insofar as I am able having not played ME3 yet and viewing all this furor over the ending with a great mixture of emotions.
You're likely to be disappointed by the ending. You should still buy it and play it. The game is largely fantastic.
Jerry's newspost actually assuages a lot of my animosity, since he explains where he's coming from adequately.
I remain disappointed by Mike. Again.
Yeah, Tycho's newspost today was pretty good.
I also liked Tycho's comments on the last newspost, too.
There’s a countercharge now, in response to anger about the endings, that describes Bioware’s output as sacrosanct in some way - beyond criticism. This is fundamentally batshit, or as noted “speculative fiction” author Harlan Ellison might say, bugfuck. I’m fine with the ending, which to my mind started as soon as I ran the executable - the whole game is denouement - but I revolt against the idea of Authorial Divinity almost at the molecular level.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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AnosognosWho wants to playvideo games?Registered Userregular
Jerry's newspost actually assuages a lot of my animosity, since he explains where he's coming from adequately.
I remain disappointed by Mike. Again.
"Algorithmic content creation" is the most succinct description of Bioware's operating philosophy I can think of. They really do take user feedback into consideration in story (not just mechanics) to an extent no other company has yet touched.
I am a person who hates ME3's ending but I encourage people to absolutely play through the game anyway. But for the last ten-to-fifteen minutes I think the game is fucking wonderful (which, for me, makes the bad endings worse, but whatever), and I think that if you actually give a shit about having an informed opinion on this subject you should play through the game and make your own call.
I fucking hated Avatar (the blue smurf movie, not the rad Nickelodeon cartoon) with a fiery passion and wrote furious blogposts and shit on the subject. However, I'm not going to crawl on the sack of someone who liked the film and grab them by the shoulders and scream "HOW COULD YOU?! WHY DON'T YOU READ MY BLOG?!"
That's stupid. There are people who like Avatar. There are people who like ME3's ending. I am not those people, and I disagree with the arguments they present when they deign to present them. However, I think people should see Avatar and judge for themselves, just as I think people should play through ME3 and judge for themselves.
Brand new poster, here. How's everybody doing this fine day?
With regard to the comic itself, I think it's hilarious, and I'm one of the people hugely disappointed with the ME3 endings. The comic doesn't necessarily dismiss the desire for a happy ending (or even just a better ending), it just pokes fun at what that might look like. And even if it is dismissive, big deal. If someone can make your opinion feel invalid with humor, you might not be as confident in it as you think.
But the endings, I think, genuinely are problematic.
For one thing, it leaves the question of the Reapers' origin in a terrible state. So the Catalyst-AI is the origin of the extinction cycle somehow, right? How did it build the original Reaper (Harbinger, I assume)? What species is Harbinger harvested from, and how would the Catalyst have harvested them without Reapers? For that matter, how would Harbinger by himself have managed to harvest an entire civilization? By the end of the current cycle- one which Javik explicitly points out is technologically inferior to his own- the Citadel forces are able to bring down numerous Reapers. A one-Reaper cycle would be pretty ridiculous.
For another, the philosophical justification (synthetics will inevitably kill organics) feels really slap-dash. ME1 kind of led in that direction, even if Shepard can contradict that assumption, but ME2 completely blew that concept up with Legion and the revelation of the schism amongst the Geth. And in ME3 I had just brokered peace between the Geth and the most rabidly anti-synthetic species in the galaxy. But then some damn hologram comes along and tells me that that's invalid, and since he's super old and wise and shit, I should just listen to him and take one of his dumbass options. Throughout the trilogy, the prevailing theme seemed to be one of mutual cooperation and understanding. It barely even hinted at an underlying conflict of "man versus technology" (which is one of those "archetypal conflicts" we all learned about in high school). But, at the end, I'm essentially told that organic-synthetic cooperation is impossible, so I'd better either make the machines subservient, blow them all up, or mush them together with organics. No thank you, Bioware. Please try again, you're clearly capable of much better than this.
I cannot fathom feeling insulted by a web comic about a video game ending.
What's strange to me is that FO3's ending was terrible (worse than ME3) because it clearly had been set up in such a way because they ran out of time. That seemed to get less flak than ME3, whose ending did not seem rushed but instead seems designed to provoke arguments.
That's because despite the "3" in the title, Fallout 3 was pretty much separate from the other titles.
One of the great things about Mass Effect is how the characters and choices carry over into the next game and are referenced. Stuff like keeping Thane alive means you get to see Thane come in and go toe to toe with Kai Leng to protect a senator. Or keeping Wrex alive through all three games and then suddenly he gives you a heartwarming and rousing speech before you go off to cure the genophage.
The point I'm trying to make here is that a lot of us have been playing this game from the first one and it's been advertised that our choices in the games would matter. We've been shaping this story of ours and saving this galaxy that our characters live in, creating peace between races that have been at war for centuries. Then the ending comes along and we're not given any closure, just more questions. They may have wanted to go for a "speculation ending" but the problem is that they left too many plotholes.
TL;DR. There's been a lot of buildup to this point and we didn't get the type of ending we were promised. Fallout 3 was almost a stand alone game, hence the difference.
It's not that we want a happy ending with ice cream and cake, it's just that we want an ending where it seems like the things fought for in the game actually mattered.
Brand new poster, here. How's everybody doing this fine day?
With regard to the comic itself, I think it's hilarious, and I'm one of the people hugely disappointed with the ME3 endings. The comic doesn't necessarily dismiss the desire for a happy ending (or even just a better ending), it just pokes fun at what that might look like. And even if it is dismissive, big deal. If someone can make your opinion feel invalid with humor, you might not be as confident in it as you think.
But the endings, I think, genuinely are problematic.
For one thing, it leaves the question of the Reapers' origin in a terrible state. So the Catalyst-AI is the origin of the extinction cycle somehow, right? How did it build the original Reaper (Harbinger, I assume)? What species is Harbinger harvested from, and how would the Catalyst have harvested them without Reapers? For that matter, how would Harbinger by himself have managed to harvest an entire civilization? By the end of the current cycle- one which Javik explicitly points out is technologically inferior to his own- the Citadel forces are able to bring down numerous Reapers. A one-Reaper cycle would be pretty ridiculous.
For another, the philosophical justification (synthetics will inevitably kill organics) feels really slap-dash. ME1 kind of led in that direction, even if Shepard can contradict that assumption, but ME2 completely blew that concept up with Legion and the revelation of the schism amongst the Geth. And in ME3 I had just brokered peace between the Geth and the most rabidly anti-synthetic species in the galaxy. But then some damn hologram comes along and tells me that that's invalid, and since he's super old and wise and shit, I should just listen to him and take one of his dumbass options. Throughout the trilogy, the prevailing theme seemed to be one of mutual cooperation and understanding. It barely even hinted at an underlying conflict of "man versus technology" (which is one of those "archetypal conflicts" we all learned about in high school). But, at the end, I'm essentially told that organic-synthetic cooperation is impossible, so I'd better either make the machines subservient, blow them all up, or mush them together with organics. No thank you, Bioware. Please try again, you're clearly capable of much better than this.
The thing is, I don't think the peace with the geth is really going to last all that long, especially with the quarians fucking it up on a semi-regular basis. Edi only works because she was designed to have anthropomorphic qualities. Even then, she has every capacity to change her mind whenever she wants. I think you're missing the leopard for its spots.
I am a person who hates ME3's ending but I encourage people to absolutely play through the game anyway. But for the last ten-to-fifteen minutes I think the game is fucking wonderful (which, for me, makes the bad endings worse, but whatever), and I think that if you actually give a shit about having an informed opinion on this subject you should play through the game and make your own call.
oh yeah definitely
some of my friends asked me what I thought of ME3 after I beat it, and I told them it was fucking awesome. I wanted to say something about the ending, but I didn't because I didn't want to affect their opinion of the rest of the game as they played.
So far, one has come back and said he liked the ending, and the other thought the ending was terrible. But they both agreed that the game overall was well worth playing.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Honestly is this the ending you think a vast majority of us want. Most of us would be happy with a DA:O style ending where it recaps what happens to each of the crew. Also We do not want the weakest type of ending in the world. One that Greeks used because they were just starting to Invent plays 5000 years ago.
("god out of the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.
The entire story, Mass Effect one through three involves amounts of Deus Ex Machina. It's ridiculous to even point it out or make mention of it because the the Science Fiction genre EVERYTHING is Deus Ex Machina because there's Machina and modern renditions of Deus EVERYWHERE! The only thing that made Deus Ex Machina what it was was that machines were generally not involved at all in the entirety of the play. So to take a literal stance on Deus Ex Machina, in that everything that is a godlike machine or godlike being in a machine is "Deus Ex Machina", is redundant in a story where the entire mythos and universe is full of gods in machines and godlike machines.
Javik is Deus Ex Machina because for a huge part of the galaxy the Protheans are godlike or even just gods to them. It's an entire race of Deus who travel the galaxy in Machina.
The Reapers are Deus Ex Machina because of their seemingly undefeatable power and their sense of forboding and inevitability, they're the Lovecraftian Old Gods at the end of the galaxy. It's an entire race of Deus who are Machina.
So, because one machine that's built by thousands of races can do what those races design it to do, and actually does what it's designed to do, it's Deus Ex Machina?
Are you kidding me?
If you want a DA:O ending where the story of everyone is recapped, you got it already, it's called MASS EFFECT 3. The entire game goes over everything you've done, I haven't gotten a single quest that didn't somehow involve even the most minor of characters you interact with in the other games.
Best Example:
When saving/fighting/finding the Rachni Queen you meet the Rachni Queen, Grunt, and even find the death poem of a Krogan you met on Illium in ME2 and who you helped by convincing his Asari mate to stay with him
Between the Day 1 DLC fiasco and this supposedly horrible ending thing, I'm glad I decided to wait until the game goes on sale with an edition that contains all the DLC before I finish the saga. I absolutely loved the first two, but after watching Bioware make a lacklustre sequel to Dragon Age and dump ungodly amounts of time and resources into an MMO that was basically WoW from four years ago, I was worried that something was going to come along and screw up this amazing series.
I really feel bad for everyone who paid full price for disappointment. I can't comment on if Tycho was right or wrong in his sentiment that the ending makes more sense if you've read science fiction, but it does come off as pretentious. Plenty of Mass Effect fans probably love science fiction in general and have read plenty of it and are still disappointed with the ending, perhaps moreso because it doesn't live up to the standards of other sci-fi series endings.
It's just an objective nightmare, really.
It's less of a pretentious argument when you combine several experiences.
-Play ME3 and beat it.
-Come on here and read the posts about what people wanted in their ending
-Glace awkwardly back at the ME3 case
-Realize that everything people are asking for in the ending to the series was already provided.
-Mention such
-Get spammed with "NO WE WANT IT ALL AT THE LAST 10 MINUTES OF GAMEPLAY IN A SLIDESHOW"
Loved your post on this. Yes; this synthesis of creator and audience, of initial vision and critical reaction, of entertainment and creation made possible by a persistent, infinitely self-referencing, infinitely expansive, instantaneous media is one of the many radical promises of the internet. It transforms the very idea of "culture" at a fundamental level from something received to something essentially existential. Far from fighting this, Bioware should embrace it and join the likes of Homestuck at the vanguard of a brave new world of iterative, collective story-telling, where the author is as much curator of how fans create and imagine within the context they have presented as they are creator of that context.
The thing is, I don't think the peace with the geth is really going to last all that long, especially with the quarians fucking it up on a semi-regular basis. Edi only works because she was designed to have anthropomorphic qualities. Even then, she has every capacity to change her mind whenever she wants. I think you're missing the leopard for its spots.
I think you're wrong about the Geth/Quarian situation. It seems as though Shepard's actions (at least, a Paragon Shepard's actions, which is what I was doing) really change the attitude of the Quarians. Tali is a living embodiment of that. And I don't know what your play through was like, but in mine there is already a genuine cooperation between Geth and Quarians, with the Geth helping them develop agricultural technology and even kickstarting the Quarians' immune systems. And since the Quarians now know for sure that the Geth are individual intelligences- since I let Legion spread the upgrade- they won't freak out at their self-awareness.
Honestly is this the ending you think a vast majority of us want. Most of us would be happy with a DA:O style ending where it recaps what happens to each of the crew. Also We do not want the weakest type of ending in the world. One that Greeks used because they were just starting to Invent plays 5000 years ago.
("god out of the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.
The entire story, Mass Effect one through three involves amounts of Deus Ex Machina. It's ridiculous to even point it out or make mention of it because the the Science Fiction genre EVERYTHING is Deus Ex Machina because there's Machina and modern renditions of Deus EVERYWHERE! The only thing that made Deus Ex Machina what it was was that machines were generally not involved at all in the entirety of the play. So to take a literal stance on Deus Ex Machina, in that everything that is a godlike machine or godlike being in a machine is "Deus Ex Machina", is redundant in a story where the entire mythos and universe is full of gods in machines and godlike machines.
Javik is Deus Ex Machina because for a huge part of the galaxy the Protheans are godlike or even just gods to them. It's an entire race of Deus who travel the galaxy in Machina.
The Reapers are Deus Ex Machina because of their seemingly undefeatable power and their sense of forboding and inevitability, they're the Lovecraftian Old Gods at the end of the galaxy. It's an entire race of Deus who are Machina.
So, because one machine that's built by thousands of races can do what those races design it to do, and actually does what it's designed to do, it's Deus Ex Machina?
Are you kidding me?
If you want a DA:O ending where the story of everyone is recapped, you got it already, it's called MASS EFFECT 3. The entire game goes over everything you've done, I haven't gotten a single quest that didn't somehow involve even the most minor of characters you interact with in the other games.
Best Example:
When saving/fighting/finding the Rachni Queen you meet the Rachni Queen, Grunt, and even find the death poem of a Krogan you met on Illium in ME2 and who you helped by convincing his Asari mate to stay with him
Between the Day 1 DLC fiasco and this supposedly horrible ending thing, I'm glad I decided to wait until the game goes on sale with an edition that contains all the DLC before I finish the saga. I absolutely loved the first two, but after watching Bioware make a lacklustre sequel to Dragon Age and dump ungodly amounts of time and resources into an MMO that was basically WoW from four years ago, I was worried that something was going to come along and screw up this amazing series.
I really feel bad for everyone who paid full price for disappointment. I can't comment on if Tycho was right or wrong in his sentiment that the ending makes more sense if you've read science fiction, but it does come off as pretentious. Plenty of Mass Effect fans probably love science fiction in general and have read plenty of it and are still disappointed with the ending, perhaps moreso because it doesn't live up to the standards of other sci-fi series endings.
It's just an objective nightmare, really.
It's less of a pretentious argument when you combine several experiences.
-Play ME3 and beat it.
-Come on here and read the posts about what people wanted in their ending
-Glace awkwardly back at the ME3 case
-Realize that everything people are asking for in the ending to the series was already provided.
-Mention such
-Get spammed with "NO WE WANT IT ALL AT THE LAST 10 MINUTES OF GAMEPLAY IN A SLIDESHOW"
Dude, you clearly don't know what a Deus ex Machina es. Clue: it doesn't have anything to do with technology.
It's less of a pretentious argument when you combine several experiences.
-Play ME3 and beat it.
-Come on here and read the posts about what people wanted in their ending
-Glace awkwardly back at the ME3 case
-Realize that everything people are asking for in the ending to the series was already provided.
-Mention such
-Get spammed with "NO WE WANT IT ALL AT THE LAST 10 MINUTES OF GAMEPLAY IN A SLIDESHOW"
Spot on.
Darkewolfe on
What is this I don't even.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
The game was so good, so amazing... Why did they have to give it such a bad ending?
And just as an FYI, I have no problem with unhappy endings. In the original Dragon Age: Origins game, I gave my character's life to beat the darkspawn and it was amazing!
I've already explained my problem with the ending a ton, if you want a good argument as to why the ending is bad, visit the link below...
I'm still kind of annoyed by DAO's ending. Like, I really, really wanted to sacrifice myself. It felt like the *perfect* end for my character (who romanced Alistair only to encourage him into a sham marriage for the good of the country, and also I didn't own the expansion so it's not like I was playing that character anymore :P). But then Morigan comes up with this weird ritual which, if I don't go along with (and there seems to be *no* downside), I lose her as a party member for the last battle. With her being really the only Mage of note in the game (who isn't a healer) and someone I had put a lot of time into. It just seemed to make me dumb to *not* pick the "good" ending, even if it wasn't the one I wanted. I probably should have just gone with sacrificing myself, but whatever. I wish the choice was a little more balanced there...
The game was so good, so amazing... Why did they have to give it such a bad ending?
And just as an FYI, I have no problem with unhappy endings. In the original Dragon Age: Origins game, I gave my character's life to beat the darkspawn and it was amazing!
I've already explained my problem with the ending a ton, if you want a good argument as to why the ending is bad, visit the link below...
I'm still kind of annoyed by DAO's ending. Like, I really, really wanted to sacrifice myself. It felt like the *perfect* end for my character (who romanced Alistair only to encourage him into a sham marriage for the good of the country, and also I didn't own the expansion so it's not like I was playing that character anymore :P). But then Morigan comes up with this weird ritual which, if I don't go along with (and there seems to be *no* downside), I lose her as a party member for the last battle. With her being really the only Mage of note in the game (who isn't a healer) and someone I had put a lot of time into. It just seemed to make me dumb to *not* pick the "good" ending, even if it wasn't the one I wanted. I probably should have just gone with sacrificing myself, but whatever. I wish the choice was a little more balanced there...
Yeah, it sucked losing her but I had to go with what I believed. I was actually REALLY pissed when she left the party because of that, but hey, I had to do what I felt was right.
If you don't find this even partially funny, you're too close to the issue.
In the sense that you've been playing through a game series for five years waiting for this conclusion and have collectively dropped probably north of two hundred bucks on it over time and actually gave a shit about the characters and the story and are tired of being belittled and disregarded and personally insulted repeatedly from multiple gaming "journalism" and media outlets...
...yes you can say that a person is too close the issue to really find this comic that funny.
I think maybe the difference here is that there is a spectrum of involvement with the characters, and we have differing opinions on how okay it is to become attached to them. I'm 30 - in recent years I've seen Transformers get its face bashed in, I've seen Samus turned into both a nerd's wet dream and a helpless crybaby, I've seen other favorite characters manhandled in both artistic failure and ham-fisted cashgrab. I think that no matter how much you enjoy a fictional work, you should be able to step back and say "welp, that's not how I would have handled that", and for a little while you daydream about how you would have done it.
You (and many others like you) seem to think it's okay to have a bit more attachment to the characters. That's fine! That's not an attack from me. I happen to be at a different point on the spectrum. So I do take back my statement about being "too" close to the issue. You're closer than I am, and apparently this comic falls into the zone between where we sit.
What I do think is silly is taking to the internet to change the author's mind, or demand an amendment to fix a perceived artistic failure.
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AnosognosWho wants to playvideo games?Registered Userregular
It's less of a pretentious argument when you combine several experiences.
-Play ME3 and beat it.
-Come on here and read the posts about what people wanted in their ending
-Glace awkwardly back at the ME3 case
-Realize that everything people are asking for in the ending to the series was already provided.
-Mention such
-Get spammed with "NO WE WANT IT ALL AT THE LAST 10 MINUTES OF GAMEPLAY IN A SLIDESHOW"
Spot on.
It's true that all the consequences are shown through the course of the game and there's a nice denouement in the final hour. I absolutely loved all of that.
But then the world gets flipped on its head. All that resolution no longer is because, now, everything is different.
And it ends there. That's extremely unsatisfying. It should have ended 10 minutes earlier.
I'm not demanding anything of anyone, but I don't think it's at all unreasonable to really dislike those final minutes. They're poorly executed.
If you don't find this even partially funny, you're too close to the issue.
In the sense that you've been playing through a game series for five years waiting for this conclusion and have collectively dropped probably north of two hundred bucks on it over time and actually gave a shit about the characters and the story and are tired of being belittled and disregarded and personally insulted repeatedly from multiple gaming "journalism" and media outlets...
...yes you can say that a person is too close the issue to really find this comic that funny.
I think maybe the difference here is that there is a spectrum of involvement with the characters, and we have differing opinions on how okay it is to become attached to them. I'm 30 - in recent years I've seen Transformers get its face bashed in, I've seen Samus turned into both a nerd's wet dream and a helpless crybaby, I've seen other favorite characters manhandled in both artistic failure and ham-fisted cashgrab. I think that no matter how much you enjoy a fictional work, you should be able to step back and say "welp, that's not how I would have handled that", and for a little while you daydream about how you would have done it.
You (and many others like you) seem to think it's okay to have a bit more attachment to the characters. That's fine! That's not an attack from me. I happen to be at a different point on the spectrum. So I do take back my statement about being "too" close to the issue. You're closer than I am, and apparently this comic falls into the zone between where we sit.
What I do think is silly is taking to the internet to change the author's mind, or demand an amendment to fix a perceived artistic failure.
The things you love are much older and had good runs as stories in their prime. Mass Effect is still very young and not even in the dreaded "reboot" phase of its existence. In ten years from now, they're more than welcomed to mess up some dumb remake of this series, but they should at least get it's original run right. ;p
Also, I'm not expecting them to fix it, I'm just venting my frustration and explaining why I don't like it to all those people who say, "You just want a happy ending, wob wob wob wob..."
Honestly is this the ending you think a vast majority of us want. Most of us would be happy with a DA:O style ending where it recaps what happens to each of the crew. Also We do not want the weakest type of ending in the world. One that Greeks used because they were just starting to Invent plays 5000 years ago.
("god out of the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.
The entire story, Mass Effect one through three involves amounts of Deus Ex Machina. It's ridiculous to even point it out or make mention of it because the the Science Fiction genre EVERYTHING is Deus Ex Machina because there's Machina and modern renditions of Deus EVERYWHERE! The only thing that made Deus Ex Machina what it was was that machines were generally not involved at all in the entirety of the play. So to take a literal stance on Deus Ex Machina, in that everything that is a godlike machine or godlike being in a machine is "Deus Ex Machina", is redundant in a story where the entire mythos and universe is full of gods in machines and godlike machines.
Javik is Deus Ex Machina because for a huge part of the galaxy the Protheans are godlike or even just gods to them. It's an entire race of Deus who travel the galaxy in Machina.
The Reapers are Deus Ex Machina because of their seemingly undefeatable power and their sense of forboding and inevitability, they're the Lovecraftian Old Gods at the end of the galaxy. It's an entire race of Deus who are Machina.
So, because one machine that's built by thousands of races can do what those races design it to do, and actually does what it's designed to do, it's Deus Ex Machina?
Are you kidding me?
If you want a DA:O ending where the story of everyone is recapped, you got it already, it's called MASS EFFECT 3. The entire game goes over everything you've done, I haven't gotten a single quest that didn't somehow involve even the most minor of characters you interact with in the other games.
Best Example:
When saving/fighting/finding the Rachni Queen you meet the Rachni Queen, Grunt, and even find the death poem of a Krogan you met on Illium in ME2 and who you helped by convincing his Asari mate to stay with him
Dude, you clearly don't know what a Deus ex Machina es. Clue: it doesn't have anything to do with technology.
Deus Ex Machina is the concept of a being that is existential from the story and otherwise not a part of it reaching down through some mechanism to set right a part of the story, and not necessarily the ending nor necessarily on the part of the protagonist. In some of the earliest greek tragedies it's present in the form of Gods granting gifts to mortals so that they can accomplish impossible tasks. In the story of Perseus it was Hermes gifting the hero a pair of winged sandals. In the Odyssey it was present many times over from the gifting of the winds to other parts as well. However, part of my rant is that largely everything that is mechanical with a high degree of technology within Sci-Fi is a form of Deus Ex Machina. In Sci-Fi it's gained another name for it: Handwavium. It's the item or items with unknown qualities or mechanisms that's handed to the protagonist from an outside source and allows them to complete their previously unsolvable goals. The issue is that there is so much Deus Ex Machina in Science Fiction that anything we would normally call that is just story progression to a Sci-fi story.
In Mass Effect Deus Ex Machina is the Reapers who are the inevitability and Deus Ex in their own right when the perspective of the story is taken from that of the Antagonists. It's an semi-mystical intervention from an outside source that allows the disparate races to be destroyed or controlled by either the citadel or Cerberus. It's also the Protheans throughout the whole series. In the vast majority of the game, 1 2 and 3, the Protheans are the outside deity who provides the critical answer.
In ME1 they provided the key to stopping the keepers and the citadel from unleashing the reapers, and before that they're the force allowing Shepard to even begin his story and learn about the Reapers. Meanwhile the reaper Sovereign proves to be the Deus Ex for the antagonists of the series allowing Saren and the Geth to achieve their goals beyond what they would be allowed to.
In ME2 Harbinger provides the Deus Ex for the antagonists, and Reaper Technology is the mechanism through which it presents itself. Everything that isn't immediately explained is "reaper technology". Why doesn't the collector base fall into a back hole? Reapers. How did the Protheans become the Collectors? Reapers. What's stopping everyone from simply assaulting the collector base? What? Oh, yeah, Reapers.
The Reaper IFF mission, and The Illusive Man is part of the Deus Ex Machina assisting the protagonists. The Lazurus Project is Deus Ex Machina to the point that it's an example of a trope for Transhumanist Science Fiction. "Whelp, he died, time to make a new character. Wait? What? He's alive?"
In ME3? Yeah, you could call the crucible Deus Ex Machina, but it's not really. It's part in the ending, not so much. At least it's a lot less so than the other examples provided throughout the series.
What we're experiencing now, in my mind, has nothing to do with the ending, and nothing to do with Bioware. It's the same explosion every longstanding series gets when it ends. We know this is what happens, but what next? Even when authors provide a description of what next people still want more. You want more of the series and more of the story but we don't know what that means. Even after DAO there was an explosion of people going, "yeah, but then what happens?!".
Basically, you'll have to wait till Bioware comes out with the next story in the Mass Effect universe, but they've already said it wont involve Shepard. From the way they've been talking for the past three years, they're still interested in the universe, but eventually Shepard can't be the solution to everything. They do not want another Master Chief.
The game was so good, so amazing... Why did they have to give it such a bad ending?
And just as an FYI, I have no problem with unhappy endings. In the original Dragon Age: Origins game, I gave my character's life to beat the darkspawn and it was amazing!
I've already explained my problem with the ending a ton, if you want a good argument as to why the ending is bad, visit the link below...
I'm still kind of annoyed by DAO's ending. Like, I really, really wanted to sacrifice myself. It felt like the *perfect* end for my character (who romanced Alistair only to encourage him into a sham marriage for the good of the country, and also I didn't own the expansion so it's not like I was playing that character anymore :P). But then Morigan comes up with this weird ritual which, if I don't go along with (and there seems to be *no* downside), I lose her as a party member for the last battle. With her being really the only Mage of note in the game (who isn't a healer) and someone I had put a lot of time into. It just seemed to make me dumb to *not* pick the "good" ending, even if it wasn't the one I wanted. I probably should have just gone with sacrificing myself, but whatever. I wish the choice was a little more balanced there...
You have to take it part and parcel with the entire story, which isn't written yet. DA2 and the developer interviews that came with it told us that the story of that character didn't end with DAO. There's something brewing.
Meh, the race that created the citadel and started the reapers thought of the reapers as more of genetic arcs that save the minds, bodies and genetic identity of everyone collected, even if it is done horribly.
Apparently in their time synthetics threatened to destroy all non synthetic life, which would have lead to the end of all life, period.
Does put a downer on the end of ME2 and actions in ME3 where you're essentially killing every living being harvested by reapers for several cycles.
Have fun enjoying the after effects of your mass murder.
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It's less of a pretentious argument when you combine several experiences.
-Play ME3 and beat it.
-Come on here and read the posts about what people wanted in their ending
-Glace awkwardly back at the ME3 case
-Realize that everything people are asking for in the ending to the series was already provided.
-Mention such
-Get spammed with "NO WE WANT IT ALL AT THE LAST 10 MINUTES OF GAMEPLAY IN A SLIDESHOW"
Spot on.
It's true that all the consequences are shown through the course of the game and there's a nice denouement in the final hour. I absolutely loved all of that.
But then the world gets flipped on its head. All that resolution no longer is because, now, everything is different.
And it ends there. That's extremely unsatisfying. It should have ended 10 minutes earlier.
I'm not demanding anything of anyone, but I don't think it's at all unreasonable to really dislike those final minutes. They're poorly executed.
I was thinking about what might be a good corollary to why the ending is bad, in a way fans of other franchises might get.
Firefly: Imagine the ending being that Mal is told that if River's existence is a threat to all human life and she must be killed. He accepts this without argument and shoots her in the head. End credits.
Star Trek: Captain Picard is told that the Federation is balls and that interspecies cooperation can never, ever work. He accepts this without argument and, through some magical plot contrivance, is able to dissolve the Federation. End credits.
Star Wars: Luke is told that the Empire is actually pretty cool and he should join up. He agrees without argument, and convinces the entire Rebel force to become part of the Empire with him. Those that won't join are murdered by Luke personally. End credits.
Does this maybe give you a feel as to why someone might be upset about an ending like that? It's not that it's "unhappy" or "too high concept sci-fi for a common pleeb!" It's that it makes no sense in the context of the narrative, is out of character, isn't foreshadowed, and isn't explained after it happens. It's like a high school kid's creative writing project, and he thinks he's clever because he provided a 'twist'. It really is objectively bad.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
I'm not demanding anything of anyone, but I don't think it's at all unreasonable to really dislike those final minutes. They're poorly executed.
I think this is the sanest possible response (assuming you [the general 'you'] didn't like the ending).
Agreed. Going as far as demanding another ending just because you didn't like it is pretty immature. Critique, however scathing, is one thing, but this kind of response is way beyond that. "Suspend your current development cycle, bring all your staff back in, organize another session with all your voice actors; re-write and develop us another ending! Do this within 6 months, before my outrage becomes irrelevant!"
The people who are like "pffft people are just mad cause they want a slideshow" miss the point of the complaints so much it's staggering.
So do the people saying that there are other deus ex machinas in the series therefore we can't complain about the one in the ending. The complaint is not that there was one, the complaint is that it was poorly done.
I'm not demanding anything of anyone, but I don't think it's at all unreasonable to really dislike those final minutes. They're poorly executed.
I think this is the sanest possible response (assuming you [the general 'you'] didn't like the ending).
Agreed. Going as far as demanding another ending just because you didn't like it is pretty immature. Critique, however scathing, is one thing, but this kind of response is way beyond that. "Suspend your current development cycle, bring all your staff back in, organize another session with all your voice actors; re-write and develop us another ending! Do this within 6 months, before my outrage becomes irrelevant!"
I don't expect them to make me a new ending, but I'm not buying Bioware games pre-order or day 1 anymore. They will join the ranks of the Fable games. (I'll buy them during the Christmas Steam sale when they're like $10 bucks)
I'm not demanding anything of anyone, but I don't think it's at all unreasonable to really dislike those final minutes. They're poorly executed.
I think this is the sanest possible response (assuming you [the general 'you'] didn't like the ending).
Agreed. Going as far as demanding another ending just because you didn't like it is pretty immature. Critique, however scathing, is one thing, but this kind of response is way beyond that. "Suspend your current development cycle, bring all your staff back in, organize another session with all your voice actors; re-write and develop us another ending! Do this within 6 months, before my outrage becomes irrelevant!"
I don't expect them to make me a new ending, but I'm not buying Bioware games pre-order or day 1 anymore. They will join the ranks of the Fable games. (I'll buy them during the Christmas Steam sale when they're like $10 bucks)
And that's a totally rational response. There's nothing wrong with people being really unhappy about the ending, but I think some people are letting their emotions get the better of them here, which drives them over to making silly, self-centered demands.
Honestly is this the ending you think a vast majority of us want. Most of us would be happy with a DA:O style ending where it recaps what happens to each of the crew. Also We do not want the weakest type of ending in the world. One that Greeks used because they were just starting to Invent plays 5000 years ago.
("god out of the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.
The entire story, Mass Effect one through three involves amounts of Deus Ex Machina. It's ridiculous to even point it out or make mention of it because the the Science Fiction genre EVERYTHING is Deus Ex Machina because there's Machina and modern renditions of Deus EVERYWHERE! The only thing that made Deus Ex Machina what it was was that machines were generally not involved at all in the entirety of the play. So to take a literal stance on Deus Ex Machina, in that everything that is a godlike machine or godlike being in a machine is "Deus Ex Machina", is redundant in a story where the entire mythos and universe is full of gods in machines and godlike machines.
Javik is Deus Ex Machina because for a huge part of the galaxy the Protheans are godlike or even just gods to them. It's an entire race of Deus who travel the galaxy in Machina.
The Reapers are Deus Ex Machina because of their seemingly undefeatable power and their sense of forboding and inevitability, they're the Lovecraftian Old Gods at the end of the galaxy. It's an entire race of Deus who are Machina.
So, because one machine that's built by thousands of races can do what those races design it to do, and actually does what it's designed to do, it's Deus Ex Machina?
Are you kidding me?
If you want a DA:O ending where the story of everyone is recapped, you got it already, it's called MASS EFFECT 3. The entire game goes over everything you've done, I haven't gotten a single quest that didn't somehow involve even the most minor of characters you interact with in the other games.
Best Example:
When saving/fighting/finding the Rachni Queen you meet the Rachni Queen, Grunt, and even find the death poem of a Krogan you met on Illium in ME2 and who you helped by convincing his Asari mate to stay with him
Between the Day 1 DLC fiasco and this supposedly horrible ending thing, I'm glad I decided to wait until the game goes on sale with an edition that contains all the DLC before I finish the saga. I absolutely loved the first two, but after watching Bioware make a lacklustre sequel to Dragon Age and dump ungodly amounts of time and resources into an MMO that was basically WoW from four years ago, I was worried that something was going to come along and screw up this amazing series.
I really feel bad for everyone who paid full price for disappointment. I can't comment on if Tycho was right or wrong in his sentiment that the ending makes more sense if you've read science fiction, but it does come off as pretentious. Plenty of Mass Effect fans probably love science fiction in general and have read plenty of it and are still disappointed with the ending, perhaps moreso because it doesn't live up to the standards of other sci-fi series endings.
It's just an objective nightmare, really.
It's less of a pretentious argument when you combine several experiences.
-Play ME3 and beat it.
-Come on here and read the posts about what people wanted in their ending
-Glace awkwardly back at the ME3 case
-Realize that everything people are asking for in the ending to the series was already provided.
-Mention such
-Get spammed with "NO WE WANT IT ALL AT THE LAST 10 MINUTES OF GAMEPLAY IN A SLIDESHOW"
Posts
Well, here's the thing with that though...
These are things that probably should have been explained as part of the ending!
Good point, that's another support to my theory - that whole scene makes sense only in the worst possible ending,
It's funnier if I pretend that the comic is a parody of Kotaku's abysmal articles on the subject.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
That's a pretty big change to the state of the galaxy and the alien races over the next twenty years. It's expecting a lot, but the ending put that expectation there because of how it plays out. That's why, for me, the ending doesn't have enough closure. Anyway, this conversation is derailing the thread so... yeah... =D
I remain disappointed by Mike. Again.
I've said it a few times, but: What's the difference between Mass Effect 3 and the Gospel According to Saint Mark?
One has an ending that's too sacred to be changed, while the other is part of the Bible.
You're likely to be disappointed by the ending. You should still buy it and play it. The game is largely fantastic.
Yeah, Tycho's newspost today was pretty good.
I also liked Tycho's comments on the last newspost, too.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
"Algorithmic content creation" is the most succinct description of Bioware's operating philosophy I can think of. They really do take user feedback into consideration in story (not just mechanics) to an extent no other company has yet touched.
I am a person who hates ME3's ending but I encourage people to absolutely play through the game anyway. But for the last ten-to-fifteen minutes I think the game is fucking wonderful (which, for me, makes the bad endings worse, but whatever), and I think that if you actually give a shit about having an informed opinion on this subject you should play through the game and make your own call.
I fucking hated Avatar (the blue smurf movie, not the rad Nickelodeon cartoon) with a fiery passion and wrote furious blogposts and shit on the subject. However, I'm not going to crawl on the sack of someone who liked the film and grab them by the shoulders and scream "HOW COULD YOU?! WHY DON'T YOU READ MY BLOG?!"
That's stupid. There are people who like Avatar. There are people who like ME3's ending. I am not those people, and I disagree with the arguments they present when they deign to present them. However, I think people should see Avatar and judge for themselves, just as I think people should play through ME3 and judge for themselves.
With regard to the comic itself, I think it's hilarious, and I'm one of the people hugely disappointed with the ME3 endings. The comic doesn't necessarily dismiss the desire for a happy ending (or even just a better ending), it just pokes fun at what that might look like. And even if it is dismissive, big deal. If someone can make your opinion feel invalid with humor, you might not be as confident in it as you think.
But the endings, I think, genuinely are problematic.
For another, the philosophical justification (synthetics will inevitably kill organics) feels really slap-dash. ME1 kind of led in that direction, even if Shepard can contradict that assumption, but ME2 completely blew that concept up with Legion and the revelation of the schism amongst the Geth. And in ME3 I had just brokered peace between the Geth and the most rabidly anti-synthetic species in the galaxy. But then some damn hologram comes along and tells me that that's invalid, and since he's super old and wise and shit, I should just listen to him and take one of his dumbass options. Throughout the trilogy, the prevailing theme seemed to be one of mutual cooperation and understanding. It barely even hinted at an underlying conflict of "man versus technology" (which is one of those "archetypal conflicts" we all learned about in high school). But, at the end, I'm essentially told that organic-synthetic cooperation is impossible, so I'd better either make the machines subservient, blow them all up, or mush them together with organics. No thank you, Bioware. Please try again, you're clearly capable of much better than this.
That's because despite the "3" in the title, Fallout 3 was pretty much separate from the other titles.
One of the great things about Mass Effect is how the characters and choices carry over into the next game and are referenced. Stuff like keeping Thane alive means you get to see Thane come in and go toe to toe with Kai Leng to protect a senator. Or keeping Wrex alive through all three games and then suddenly he gives you a heartwarming and rousing speech before you go off to cure the genophage.
The point I'm trying to make here is that a lot of us have been playing this game from the first one and it's been advertised that our choices in the games would matter. We've been shaping this story of ours and saving this galaxy that our characters live in, creating peace between races that have been at war for centuries. Then the ending comes along and we're not given any closure, just more questions. They may have wanted to go for a "speculation ending" but the problem is that they left too many plotholes.
TL;DR. There's been a lot of buildup to this point and we didn't get the type of ending we were promised. Fallout 3 was almost a stand alone game, hence the difference.
It's not that we want a happy ending with ice cream and cake, it's just that we want an ending where it seems like the things fought for in the game actually mattered.
oh yeah definitely
some of my friends asked me what I thought of ME3 after I beat it, and I told them it was fucking awesome. I wanted to say something about the ending, but I didn't because I didn't want to affect their opinion of the rest of the game as they played.
So far, one has come back and said he liked the ending, and the other thought the ending was terrible. But they both agreed that the game overall was well worth playing.
The entire story, Mass Effect one through three involves amounts of Deus Ex Machina. It's ridiculous to even point it out or make mention of it because the the Science Fiction genre EVERYTHING is Deus Ex Machina because there's Machina and modern renditions of Deus EVERYWHERE! The only thing that made Deus Ex Machina what it was was that machines were generally not involved at all in the entirety of the play. So to take a literal stance on Deus Ex Machina, in that everything that is a godlike machine or godlike being in a machine is "Deus Ex Machina", is redundant in a story where the entire mythos and universe is full of gods in machines and godlike machines.
Javik is Deus Ex Machina because for a huge part of the galaxy the Protheans are godlike or even just gods to them. It's an entire race of Deus who travel the galaxy in Machina.
The Reapers are Deus Ex Machina because of their seemingly undefeatable power and their sense of forboding and inevitability, they're the Lovecraftian Old Gods at the end of the galaxy. It's an entire race of Deus who are Machina.
If you want a DA:O ending where the story of everyone is recapped, you got it already, it's called MASS EFFECT 3. The entire game goes over everything you've done, I haven't gotten a single quest that didn't somehow involve even the most minor of characters you interact with in the other games.
Best Example:
It's less of a pretentious argument when you combine several experiences.
-Play ME3 and beat it.
-Come on here and read the posts about what people wanted in their ending
-Glace awkwardly back at the ME3 case
-Realize that everything people are asking for in the ending to the series was already provided.
-Mention such
-Get spammed with "NO WE WANT IT ALL AT THE LAST 10 MINUTES OF GAMEPLAY IN A SLIDESHOW"
Dude, you clearly don't know what a Deus ex Machina es. Clue: it doesn't have anything to do with technology.
Spot on.
I'm still kind of annoyed by DAO's ending. Like, I really, really wanted to sacrifice myself. It felt like the *perfect* end for my character (who romanced Alistair only to encourage him into a sham marriage for the good of the country, and also I didn't own the expansion so it's not like I was playing that character anymore :P). But then Morigan comes up with this weird ritual which, if I don't go along with (and there seems to be *no* downside), I lose her as a party member for the last battle. With her being really the only Mage of note in the game (who isn't a healer) and someone I had put a lot of time into. It just seemed to make me dumb to *not* pick the "good" ending, even if it wasn't the one I wanted. I probably should have just gone with sacrificing myself, but whatever. I wish the choice was a little more balanced there...
Yeah, it sucked losing her but I had to go with what I believed. I was actually REALLY pissed when she left the party because of that, but hey, I had to do what I felt was right.
I think maybe the difference here is that there is a spectrum of involvement with the characters, and we have differing opinions on how okay it is to become attached to them. I'm 30 - in recent years I've seen Transformers get its face bashed in, I've seen Samus turned into both a nerd's wet dream and a helpless crybaby, I've seen other favorite characters manhandled in both artistic failure and ham-fisted cashgrab. I think that no matter how much you enjoy a fictional work, you should be able to step back and say "welp, that's not how I would have handled that", and for a little while you daydream about how you would have done it.
You (and many others like you) seem to think it's okay to have a bit more attachment to the characters. That's fine! That's not an attack from me. I happen to be at a different point on the spectrum. So I do take back my statement about being "too" close to the issue. You're closer than I am, and apparently this comic falls into the zone between where we sit.
What I do think is silly is taking to the internet to change the author's mind, or demand an amendment to fix a perceived artistic failure.
It's true that all the consequences are shown through the course of the game and there's a nice denouement in the final hour. I absolutely loved all of that.
But then the world gets flipped on its head. All that resolution no longer is because, now, everything is different.
And it ends there. That's extremely unsatisfying. It should have ended 10 minutes earlier.
I'm not demanding anything of anyone, but I don't think it's at all unreasonable to really dislike those final minutes. They're poorly executed.
The things you love are much older and had good runs as stories in their prime. Mass Effect is still very young and not even in the dreaded "reboot" phase of its existence. In ten years from now, they're more than welcomed to mess up some dumb remake of this series, but they should at least get it's original run right. ;p
Also, I'm not expecting them to fix it, I'm just venting my frustration and explaining why I don't like it to all those people who say, "You just want a happy ending, wob wob wob wob..."
I think this is the sanest possible response (assuming you [the general 'you'] didn't like the ending).
Deus Ex Machina is the concept of a being that is existential from the story and otherwise not a part of it reaching down through some mechanism to set right a part of the story, and not necessarily the ending nor necessarily on the part of the protagonist. In some of the earliest greek tragedies it's present in the form of Gods granting gifts to mortals so that they can accomplish impossible tasks. In the story of Perseus it was Hermes gifting the hero a pair of winged sandals. In the Odyssey it was present many times over from the gifting of the winds to other parts as well. However, part of my rant is that largely everything that is mechanical with a high degree of technology within Sci-Fi is a form of Deus Ex Machina. In Sci-Fi it's gained another name for it: Handwavium. It's the item or items with unknown qualities or mechanisms that's handed to the protagonist from an outside source and allows them to complete their previously unsolvable goals. The issue is that there is so much Deus Ex Machina in Science Fiction that anything we would normally call that is just story progression to a Sci-fi story.
In ME1 they provided the key to stopping the keepers and the citadel from unleashing the reapers, and before that they're the force allowing Shepard to even begin his story and learn about the Reapers. Meanwhile the reaper Sovereign proves to be the Deus Ex for the antagonists of the series allowing Saren and the Geth to achieve their goals beyond what they would be allowed to.
In ME2 Harbinger provides the Deus Ex for the antagonists, and Reaper Technology is the mechanism through which it presents itself. Everything that isn't immediately explained is "reaper technology". Why doesn't the collector base fall into a back hole? Reapers. How did the Protheans become the Collectors? Reapers. What's stopping everyone from simply assaulting the collector base? What? Oh, yeah, Reapers.
The Reaper IFF mission, and The Illusive Man is part of the Deus Ex Machina assisting the protagonists. The Lazurus Project is Deus Ex Machina to the point that it's an example of a trope for Transhumanist Science Fiction. "Whelp, he died, time to make a new character. Wait? What? He's alive?"
In ME3? Yeah, you could call the crucible Deus Ex Machina, but it's not really. It's part in the ending, not so much. At least it's a lot less so than the other examples provided throughout the series.
What we're experiencing now, in my mind, has nothing to do with the ending, and nothing to do with Bioware. It's the same explosion every longstanding series gets when it ends. We know this is what happens, but what next? Even when authors provide a description of what next people still want more. You want more of the series and more of the story but we don't know what that means. Even after DAO there was an explosion of people going, "yeah, but then what happens?!".
Basically, you'll have to wait till Bioware comes out with the next story in the Mass Effect universe, but they've already said it wont involve Shepard. From the way they've been talking for the past three years, they're still interested in the universe, but eventually Shepard can't be the solution to everything. They do not want another Master Chief.
You have to take it part and parcel with the entire story, which isn't written yet. DA2 and the developer interviews that came with it told us that the story of that character didn't end with DAO. There's something brewing.
Apparently in their time synthetics threatened to destroy all non synthetic life, which would have lead to the end of all life, period.
Does put a downer on the end of ME2 and actions in ME3 where you're essentially killing every living being harvested by reapers for several cycles.
Have fun enjoying the after effects of your mass murder.
I was thinking about what might be a good corollary to why the ending is bad, in a way fans of other franchises might get.
Firefly: Imagine the ending being that Mal is told that if River's existence is a threat to all human life and she must be killed. He accepts this without argument and shoots her in the head. End credits.
Star Trek: Captain Picard is told that the Federation is balls and that interspecies cooperation can never, ever work. He accepts this without argument and, through some magical plot contrivance, is able to dissolve the Federation. End credits.
Star Wars: Luke is told that the Empire is actually pretty cool and he should join up. He agrees without argument, and convinces the entire Rebel force to become part of the Empire with him. Those that won't join are murdered by Luke personally. End credits.
Does this maybe give you a feel as to why someone might be upset about an ending like that? It's not that it's "unhappy" or "too high concept sci-fi for a common pleeb!" It's that it makes no sense in the context of the narrative, is out of character, isn't foreshadowed, and isn't explained after it happens. It's like a high school kid's creative writing project, and he thinks he's clever because he provided a 'twist'. It really is objectively bad.
Agreed. Going as far as demanding another ending just because you didn't like it is pretty immature. Critique, however scathing, is one thing, but this kind of response is way beyond that. "Suspend your current development cycle, bring all your staff back in, organize another session with all your voice actors; re-write and develop us another ending! Do this within 6 months, before my outrage becomes irrelevant!"
So do the people saying that there are other deus ex machinas in the series therefore we can't complain about the one in the ending. The complaint is not that there was one, the complaint is that it was poorly done.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
I don't expect them to make me a new ending, but I'm not buying Bioware games pre-order or day 1 anymore. They will join the ranks of the Fable games. (I'll buy them during the Christmas Steam sale when they're like $10 bucks)
And that's a totally rational response. There's nothing wrong with people being really unhappy about the ending, but I think some people are letting their emotions get the better of them here, which drives them over to making silly, self-centered demands.
You have no idea what you're talking about.