SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
Yeah it doesn't seem like ESO is that bad of a game but Skyrim was an important game for me and you just can't translate it into an MMO. ESO is weighted down by recognizable and cliche gameplay that isn't found in an Elder Scrolls game and the intimate relationship between world and player is ruined by tons of players running around. Tons of little details that strayed too far from Skyrim bothered me too much to enjoy the game. It feels too much like a common MMO.
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
Not that I've played it but if I had, and had disliked it initially, I would probably have chosen recently to give it another pass.
And in that hypothetical scenario I would have really enjoyed myself.
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
He's in the beta and telling me what he likes about it. And I agree with his assessments enough to want to try it now.
I'll never be sure if my MMO addiction is positive or negative.
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drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
I have a feeling like this will be the MMO to get 6 months after release so I wont have to deal with the 50 other assholes running around doing the same shit I am, from all this talk about people being weak.
Tried it. Thought it was a hot mess. My wife was actually nauseated by it since she plays in 1st person (HATES that over the right shoulder view) so she got in about 15 minutes and had to stop. I don't really have anything constructive to say about it. Didn't really seem to me like they were trying too hard.
+1
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L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
I think the problem with ESO is that the entire franchise is based on a single player being the sole source of all that is awesome in the world, with everything literally revolving around one person. The fact that you can, from the get go, do anything, go any where and fuck around to your heart's content really drives home the Elder Scrolls experience as a true Adventure game.
However, once it transitions to an MMO the actually game play gets put under such a microscope that people realize that when you remove the above sense of adventure and purpose, the combat, character creation, questing and general game play really ain't all that.
A lot of what makes the ES games fun is NOT having thousands of other mooks running around, doing mook things while you yourself mook around. But at the end of the day, really all MMO stands for is More Mooks Online, which just doesn't jive with the essence of Elder Scrolls.
I think this has all been said before, but I think a lot of people are just really curious how this would translate into an MMO in the first place.
I mean, in Skyrim I become leader of everything. In an MMO, EVERYONE has to be the leader of everything. That doesn't work.
What about putting an actual Elder Scroll in the game? I mean, once you get that, you have the power to do anything in game, right? How does that work here?
I have played a sneaky thief assassin type waaaay too much in the TES series, because it's always a lot more work up front but a lot of fun and well worth it in the later levels, to get to the level of near godhood with less fun towards the upper levels. I don't see how that will work at all in an MMO. I want to sneak around ruins and castles and stuff, pick off guys one at a time with my knives or arrows or whatever, and go through a whole dungeon not being seen. Here I go, stealthily sneaking around, killing mobs in my way without taking damage, only to have DoucheyMcTwelveYearOld run up and kill everything in front of my with his two handed sword of lameness. Or have several run in front of me, making all my sneaking worthless. Where's the immersion when I'm trying to sneak through something only to have nothing around which I can sneak? I'm not talking about loot, I'm talking about I do play a lot alone in the TES games, and it's not sounding like there's going to be much of that.
One other thing is that Bethesda is notorious for being awful with bugs. I think that if they go the amusement park route with their MMO, they can contain some of the variables that they have to deal with making the game a bit easier with bugs, but looking at some of the bugs fixed in the unofficial patch, it's like, "why did you not fucking bother fixing that?" Tons of little bugs that should be easy to fix. Why do they stop support and leave everything up to the community after a month? How is that going to work with their MMO?
And one last thing is that when I think of TES games, I think of mods. If I want to become a necromancer, even though it's not really supported in game, I can download any number of mods to make me a necromancer. Magic play weak? There are mods to fix it. Sneaking too easy? There are mods to fix that. Want chainmail bikinis and rape chairs? Well, there are mods for that too. But because there are things out there, I can customize it to my play style. Like I've said, I don't really care much for the sexual stuff, like the chainmail bikinis and the rest. Whereas in an MMO, there's always going to be some outfits that are going to be chainmail bikinis, and they will be good armor that you're going to want for your character so that they can perform decently, so you will end up with that stuff.
What about putting an actual Elder Scroll in the game? I mean, once you get that, you have the power to do anything in game, right? How does that work here?
The Elder Scrolls are in the game. They're the objectives of the big pvp in Cyrodiil. You capture them and your whole faction gets small bonuses like +5% damage done.
There's also a 20 something High Elf in charge of the entire Aldermi Dominion. The faction with the most long lived races is ruled by a character who has lots of dialogue hinting at and out right saying that they went around and partied hard before deciding to be a leader.
I think that says everything that needs to be said on the lore side.
What about putting an actual Elder Scroll in the game? I mean, once you get that, you have the power to do anything in game, right? How does that work here?
The Elder Scrolls are in the game. They're the objectives of the big pvp in Cyrodiil. You capture them and your whole faction gets small bonuses like +5% damage done.
There's also a 20 something High Elf in charge of the entire Aldermi Dominion. The faction with the most long lived races is ruled by a character who has lots of dialogue hinting at and out right saying that they went around and partied hard before deciding to be a leader.
I think that says everything that needs to be said on the lore side.
The Elder Scrolls give bonuses! I guess a thousand years ago the Elder Scrolls are more like Baby Scrolls!
What makes Elder Scrolls games amazing? A huge sprawling intricately crafted open world with tons of quests and hidden gems you can lose yourself in. (And mods, of course, which clearly aren't going to translate well to MMOs). Nothing was better than discovering an ancient dwemer ruin, sealed for centuries, into which you cautiously entered. As your footsteps quietly disturbed the dust of centuries you wondered what amazing discoveries you might find, what hidden and fearsome foes you would face, what new quests and knowledge might be uncovered in this foreboding tomb, as you quietly and cautiously proceeded, always alert, always vigilant, always checking for traps, always doing the best to keep your presence undetected by any lurking spirits of evil.
All of that is ruined when you are trying to ceep bout and you see two dozen guys bunny hopping past you zerg rushing down every monster and opening every chest long before you get there. Seriously, every alcove is full of empty chests. Just take them out. That would be better than there being ridiculous numbers of chests, all of which are empty.
If you take away the joy of exploration and discovery, what's left? An engaging combat system?
I think the core game mechanics have potential. I am not a game dev, but I'd say it still needs at least 6 months of work, probably more like a year. Its a question if Zeni/Bethesda will give it that much extra time.
I'd just put in a reminder you can /feedback in game to give, well, feedback (tho it also seems to be the bug tracker).
So...anyone else extremely annoyed by only have 5 skill slots (plus 1 for an ultimate)? Is this game going to be a console port as well? Please say no.
One other thing is that Bethesda is notorious for being awful with bugs.
Bethesda Game Studios Is Not Making This Game.
Bethesda Game Studios are the people who make your beloved Fallouts and Skyrims.
ZeniMax Online Studios is developing TESO, this is their first game.
Both studios publish through Bethesda Softworks.
All of these entities are owned by ZeniMax Media.
That was probably a bit too hyperbolic. But I still can't associate an Elder Scrolls game without thinking of exploration, bugs and mods. I don't believe this game will be much more bug free regardless of who makes it, even though it's less ambitious in its scope.
I'm not saying it's horrible. It's not an Elder Scrolls game. So I guess you have to evaluate it solely on its strengths as an MMO. I don't think it's anything particularly amazing. I don't know how many hours I've sunk into Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim and this one hasn't really hooked me.
Another huge issue for me is that the gameplay itself took a major hit. People give the Elder Scrolls series shit for it's combat (which I personally enjoy), but you have to love the intricacies it has. Take Skyrim. My mage character often-
1. Frenzied a group 2. Went invisible 3. Bet on the winner of the group 4. Rallied the one I was betting on because he was losing 5. looted everything.
When I didn't feel like doing that, I could sneak up to a guy and drop a poison in his pockets.
I could walk up to a pack of bandits 1. Pacify them all 2. Kill just one 3. resurrect the one I just killed 4. Make them fight their undead companion to (their) deaths.
Cliffs. Fus-Ro-Dah. Need I say more?
Feeling more direct? Oh, lay down a lake of fire and wait for enemies to cross it. PARALYZE. Look into their twitching eyes as they burn up completely unable to move.
Or the ever useful- Poison them with weakness to fire, Pop a destruction fortification potion, Unleash Hell.
That's just a few of the more common ways I killed dudes. In this game? I can shoot a bit of lightning at them (for pitiful damage)... oh, I can also use my janky ass staff to shoot some fire at them I guess... for pitiful damage. Also, all my abilities take massive chunks of mana for some stupid reason.
Man, what fun! Really getting that Elder Scrolls vibe now guys!
I guess the main point I'm trying to make, is that in the Elder Scrolls games you can use the combat itself to build a story, to build a moment, to really be creative and just role play your character without even consciously trying to do that.
Steam and CFN: Enexemander
+3
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
It's just damn near impossible to recreate what makes Bethesda open world RPGs special in an MMO.
At the very least if and when the game fails, Zenimax will have hopefully learned their lesson on that front.
And to be fair, the game definitely *FELT* like an Elder Scrolls game to me, at least as far as the game play. I just don't think I can find myself playing an Elder Scrolls game in a persistent game world amongst thousands of other mooks. Maybe it's different at higher levels, but it was tough for me to even log in this weekend, when I just have so many more fun games to play.
Honestly I think GW2 has spoiled me a bit. Getting a quest and being told go here and do this and you can't progress until you do......I was just left feeling like ugh do I have to? Can't I just run around until an event pops up or something? Or jump straight into pvp? I've grown accustomed to the freedom in GW2, I can't go back to old school stuff.
Honestly I think GW2 has spoiled me a bit. Getting a quest and being told go here and do this and you can't progress until you do......I was just left feeling like ugh do I have to? Can't I just run around until an event pops up or something? Or jump straight into pvp? I've grown accustomed to the freedom in GW2, I can't go back to old school stuff.
GW2 has spoiled a lot of stuff about MMOs for me. The art style and animations of GW2 ruin how jank most of it feels now in ESO (tons can change in 5 months) and I forgot how antiquated the quest system feels in this style of game. That point is odd to me because after the 450 + hours I have in Skyrim I still don't mind how the quest system works. I think it has to do with way you feel apart of the world itself and not just one of thousands with their quest dude running behind them saving the world.
I think this shows that the devs have down a good MMO base game & having the backdrop of the vast wealth of Elder Scrolls races and world might make this something that I could at least spend a few months on. It's hard to judge when we all we saw was so much of the starting zones but I am now more interested in it now than I was a few months ago.
I just wish the Arenanet would have taken on more traditional gameplay stuff for GW2. There wouldn't been a need for anything new if they had open world pvp and more traditional class archetypes (trinity).
I only just started playing GW2 a few weeks ago, and the most jarring difference for me was the "everybody can loot everything" in GW2 to the effective "nobody gets to loot anything" in TESO.
I only just started playing GW2 a few weeks ago, and the most jarring difference for me was the "everybody can loot everything" in GW2 to the effective "nobody gets to loot anything" in TESO.
I honestly don't know why any MMO still does it different from this. Is there any downside at all to the "everyone can loot everything" system? Same goes for enemies that aren't locked to the first dude to attack them.
Nobody gets in each others' way and it stimulates cooperation rather than frustration. Everyone wins.
The game does a great job of robbing you of the joy of discovery by making it very obvious that at least a dozen other people have already discovered the same thing within the past 5 minutes, and four of them are still standing there.
+4
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited November 2013
In my mind the only way to do anything close to an Elder Scrolls MMO would be something more along the lines of DayZ. That is players' host a server of around 40 or so people, you run around by your lonesome (or with friends) in the big ol' world, occasionally coming across another player, and in that moment deciding whether to fight or help.
Imagine exploring a deep ass cave system only to come across another adventurer. He tells you he has never been more relieved to see someone as he is injured and does not think he can make it without help. You can choose to help and fight side by side against the creatures of the dark or stick a knife in him and take his stuff. :P
Ah, dreams. They are fun aren't they?
In all honesty all I want from TES is just multiplayer. It doesn't need to be 40 man persistent servers. I could go for just me and three buddies. Hell, maybe they activate some sort of magic stone in their game that teleports them to a parallel Tamriel (my game) and we go adventuring, then they head back to their own world with the xp and loot they acquired.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Some experiences are just better when designed for 4-8 players as opposed to making it an MMO.
Elder Scrolls is definitely one of those.
I think a game like Star Citizen is doing this right.
"Hey, want to play in a big world with a bajillion people? We'll have a server for that!"
"Want to run your own private server and mod it to your heart's desire and just play with a small group of friends? Great, that's supported!"
I'm thinking ESO could've benefited from a similar set up. Obviously, they'd need to find a creative way to monetize it, but ES is no stranger to microtransactions, so I can't imagine it would've been too difficult.
I will say there are a few touches I like that make the game somewhat interesting.
1. Combat has a few enhancements (like timing blocks) that add some depth. However I've found I usually just stay out of melee range and spam my fire spell (as a templar).
2. Lorebooks. I love lorebooks, I'm a sucker for them. I hope they add some more depth to this...maybe add some element of gaining level in a skill from reading a book like a normal ES game?
I'm curious how PvP will work. I'm not a huge PvPer, but I'm always open to new systems.
2. Lorebooks. I love lorebooks, I'm a sucker for them. I hope they add some more depth to this...maybe add some element of gaining level in a skill from reading a book like a normal ES game?
Depending on how far you made it in the beta, that may or may not have been answered for you
I only just started playing GW2 a few weeks ago, and the most jarring difference for me was the "everybody can loot everything" in GW2 to the effective "nobody gets to loot anything" in TESO.
I honestly don't know why any MMO still does it different from this. Is there any downside at all to the "everyone can loot everything" system? Same goes for enemies that aren't locked to the first dude to attack them.
Nobody gets in each others' way and it stimulates cooperation rather than frustration. Everyone wins.
I agree with you. But I was introduced to some people who don't, and here's how they think:
They want to feel special. They want to feel like they are better than other people, or smarter, or more skilled, or whatever. So they LIKE having competitive chests and resources, because finding one that hasn't already been looted feels like an accomplishment somehow (instead of dumb luck). And they prefer to play solo (even in an MMO!) instead of with other people, so they don't experience the same downsides as people who play with friends. For me, if my friend and I battle our way through a cave or climb up a mountain, it would suck for us if only one of us got the chest at the end. But for someone with the mindset I've described, they would always be alone, so they get extra satisfaction from knowing they just took away the opportunity from other people for awhile. To someone like that, having it be competitive instead of cooperative is a feature, not a drawback.
So. There may actually be a set of people for whom games that like are intended: solo players who value competition over cooperation, but still want to play a game that has other people in it so they have someone to feel like they are better than or to brag to back in town when they are done soloing.
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L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
What percentage of people do you think play or think like that?
I gotta admit, I spend probably 75-80% of my time in MMOs playing solo..doing my own thing. Mostly because I don't like dealing with people unless they're a guildie.
Even then, I'd still prefer the "everyone can loot everything" system.
Yeah I have to agree that the game felt watered down. Pretty much as expected. Some of the environments were pretty but also devoid of NPCs with only limited interaction between them. The questing was barebones but with little cute singular examples. Like the Skeever girl. In the end it felt like babies first mmo. A barebones like Neverwinter.
On the looting front. There are ways around looting systems without going full GW2 and still have value. I personally found GW2 boring and simplistic. And overturned on some aspects because F2P. I like the way FFXIV did looting. Just make it mean nothing and that works too.
The primary sin of this game is that it's a theme park and not a sandbox (and this game sure does take that term to its fullest, it actually looks like you're in a high fantasy theme park, complete with having to contend with crowds for vendors)
Ultima Online is a better elder scrolls game than ESO
Developers are really scared of making sandboxes because they're not wow
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And in that hypothetical scenario I would have really enjoyed myself.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
I'll never be sure if my MMO addiction is positive or negative.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
I think this has all been said before, but I think a lot of people are just really curious how this would translate into an MMO in the first place.
I mean, in Skyrim I become leader of everything. In an MMO, EVERYONE has to be the leader of everything. That doesn't work.
What about putting an actual Elder Scroll in the game? I mean, once you get that, you have the power to do anything in game, right? How does that work here?
I have played a sneaky thief assassin type waaaay too much in the TES series, because it's always a lot more work up front but a lot of fun and well worth it in the later levels, to get to the level of near godhood with less fun towards the upper levels. I don't see how that will work at all in an MMO. I want to sneak around ruins and castles and stuff, pick off guys one at a time with my knives or arrows or whatever, and go through a whole dungeon not being seen. Here I go, stealthily sneaking around, killing mobs in my way without taking damage, only to have DoucheyMcTwelveYearOld run up and kill everything in front of my with his two handed sword of lameness. Or have several run in front of me, making all my sneaking worthless. Where's the immersion when I'm trying to sneak through something only to have nothing around which I can sneak? I'm not talking about loot, I'm talking about I do play a lot alone in the TES games, and it's not sounding like there's going to be much of that.
One other thing is that Bethesda is notorious for being awful with bugs. I think that if they go the amusement park route with their MMO, they can contain some of the variables that they have to deal with making the game a bit easier with bugs, but looking at some of the bugs fixed in the unofficial patch, it's like, "why did you not fucking bother fixing that?" Tons of little bugs that should be easy to fix. Why do they stop support and leave everything up to the community after a month? How is that going to work with their MMO?
And one last thing is that when I think of TES games, I think of mods. If I want to become a necromancer, even though it's not really supported in game, I can download any number of mods to make me a necromancer. Magic play weak? There are mods to fix it. Sneaking too easy? There are mods to fix that. Want chainmail bikinis and rape chairs? Well, there are mods for that too. But because there are things out there, I can customize it to my play style. Like I've said, I don't really care much for the sexual stuff, like the chainmail bikinis and the rest. Whereas in an MMO, there's always going to be some outfits that are going to be chainmail bikinis, and they will be good armor that you're going to want for your character so that they can perform decently, so you will end up with that stuff.
Bethesda Game Studios Is Not Making This Game.
Bethesda Game Studios are the people who make your beloved Fallouts and Skyrims.
ZeniMax Online Studios is developing TESO, this is their first game.
Both studios publish through Bethesda Softworks.
All of these entities are owned by ZeniMax Media.
The Elder Scrolls are in the game. They're the objectives of the big pvp in Cyrodiil. You capture them and your whole faction gets small bonuses like +5% damage done.
There's also a 20 something High Elf in charge of the entire Aldermi Dominion. The faction with the most long lived races is ruled by a character who has lots of dialogue hinting at and out right saying that they went around and partied hard before deciding to be a leader.
I think that says everything that needs to be said on the lore side.
The Elder Scrolls give bonuses! I guess a thousand years ago the Elder Scrolls are more like Baby Scrolls!
What makes Elder Scrolls games amazing? A huge sprawling intricately crafted open world with tons of quests and hidden gems you can lose yourself in. (And mods, of course, which clearly aren't going to translate well to MMOs). Nothing was better than discovering an ancient dwemer ruin, sealed for centuries, into which you cautiously entered. As your footsteps quietly disturbed the dust of centuries you wondered what amazing discoveries you might find, what hidden and fearsome foes you would face, what new quests and knowledge might be uncovered in this foreboding tomb, as you quietly and cautiously proceeded, always alert, always vigilant, always checking for traps, always doing the best to keep your presence undetected by any lurking spirits of evil.
All of that is ruined when you are trying to ceep bout and you see two dozen guys bunny hopping past you zerg rushing down every monster and opening every chest long before you get there. Seriously, every alcove is full of empty chests. Just take them out. That would be better than there being ridiculous numbers of chests, all of which are empty.
If you take away the joy of exploration and discovery, what's left? An engaging combat system?
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
I'd just put in a reminder you can /feedback in game to give, well, feedback (tho it also seems to be the bug tracker).
That was probably a bit too hyperbolic. But I still can't associate an Elder Scrolls game without thinking of exploration, bugs and mods. I don't believe this game will be much more bug free regardless of who makes it, even though it's less ambitious in its scope.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
Another huge issue for me is that the gameplay itself took a major hit. People give the Elder Scrolls series shit for it's combat (which I personally enjoy), but you have to love the intricacies it has. Take Skyrim. My mage character often-
1. Frenzied a group 2. Went invisible 3. Bet on the winner of the group 4. Rallied the one I was betting on because he was losing 5. looted everything.
When I didn't feel like doing that, I could sneak up to a guy and drop a poison in his pockets.
I could walk up to a pack of bandits 1. Pacify them all 2. Kill just one 3. resurrect the one I just killed 4. Make them fight their undead companion to (their) deaths.
Cliffs. Fus-Ro-Dah. Need I say more?
Feeling more direct? Oh, lay down a lake of fire and wait for enemies to cross it. PARALYZE. Look into their twitching eyes as they burn up completely unable to move.
Or the ever useful- Poison them with weakness to fire, Pop a destruction fortification potion, Unleash Hell.
That's just a few of the more common ways I killed dudes. In this game? I can shoot a bit of lightning at them (for pitiful damage)... oh, I can also use my janky ass staff to shoot some fire at them I guess... for pitiful damage. Also, all my abilities take massive chunks of mana for some stupid reason.
Man, what fun! Really getting that Elder Scrolls vibe now guys!
I guess the main point I'm trying to make, is that in the Elder Scrolls games you can use the combat itself to build a story, to build a moment, to really be creative and just role play your character without even consciously trying to do that.
At the very least if and when the game fails, Zenimax will have hopefully learned their lesson on that front.
GW2 has spoiled a lot of stuff about MMOs for me. The art style and animations of GW2 ruin how jank most of it feels now in ESO (tons can change in 5 months) and I forgot how antiquated the quest system feels in this style of game. That point is odd to me because after the 450 + hours I have in Skyrim I still don't mind how the quest system works. I think it has to do with way you feel apart of the world itself and not just one of thousands with their quest dude running behind them saving the world.
I think this shows that the devs have down a good MMO base game & having the backdrop of the vast wealth of Elder Scrolls races and world might make this something that I could at least spend a few months on. It's hard to judge when we all we saw was so much of the starting zones but I am now more interested in it now than I was a few months ago.
I just wish the Arenanet would have taken on more traditional gameplay stuff for GW2. There wouldn't been a need for anything new if they had open world pvp and more traditional class archetypes (trinity).
They had the right idea there... and failed completely to implement it so everyone can loot them.
I honestly don't know why any MMO still does it different from this. Is there any downside at all to the "everyone can loot everything" system? Same goes for enemies that aren't locked to the first dude to attack them.
Nobody gets in each others' way and it stimulates cooperation rather than frustration. Everyone wins.
Imagine exploring a deep ass cave system only to come across another adventurer. He tells you he has never been more relieved to see someone as he is injured and does not think he can make it without help. You can choose to help and fight side by side against the creatures of the dark or stick a knife in him and take his stuff. :P
Ah, dreams. They are fun aren't they?
In all honesty all I want from TES is just multiplayer. It doesn't need to be 40 man persistent servers. I could go for just me and three buddies. Hell, maybe they activate some sort of magic stone in their game that teleports them to a parallel Tamriel (my game) and we go adventuring, then they head back to their own world with the xp and loot they acquired.
Elder Scrolls is definitly one of those.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I think a game like Star Citizen is doing this right.
"Hey, want to play in a big world with a bajillion people? We'll have a server for that!"
"Want to run your own private server and mod it to your heart's desire and just play with a small group of friends? Great, that's supported!"
I'm thinking ESO could've benefited from a similar set up. Obviously, they'd need to find a creative way to monetize it, but ES is no stranger to microtransactions, so I can't imagine it would've been too difficult.
1. Combat has a few enhancements (like timing blocks) that add some depth. However I've found I usually just stay out of melee range and spam my fire spell (as a templar).
2. Lorebooks. I love lorebooks, I'm a sucker for them. I hope they add some more depth to this...maybe add some element of gaining level in a skill from reading a book like a normal ES game?
I'm curious how PvP will work. I'm not a huge PvPer, but I'm always open to new systems.
Depending on how far you made it in the beta, that may or may not have been answered for you
I agree with you. But I was introduced to some people who don't, and here's how they think:
They want to feel special. They want to feel like they are better than other people, or smarter, or more skilled, or whatever. So they LIKE having competitive chests and resources, because finding one that hasn't already been looted feels like an accomplishment somehow (instead of dumb luck). And they prefer to play solo (even in an MMO!) instead of with other people, so they don't experience the same downsides as people who play with friends. For me, if my friend and I battle our way through a cave or climb up a mountain, it would suck for us if only one of us got the chest at the end. But for someone with the mindset I've described, they would always be alone, so they get extra satisfaction from knowing they just took away the opportunity from other people for awhile. To someone like that, having it be competitive instead of cooperative is a feature, not a drawback.
So. There may actually be a set of people for whom games that like are intended: solo players who value competition over cooperation, but still want to play a game that has other people in it so they have someone to feel like they are better than or to brag to back in town when they are done soloing.
90%+
That sense of exploration and wonder is impossible to achieve if there is a crowd of 20 people bunny hopping over my head to get to the chests first.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
Even then, I'd still prefer the "everyone can loot everything" system.
On the looting front. There are ways around looting systems without going full GW2 and still have value. I personally found GW2 boring and simplistic. And overturned on some aspects because F2P. I like the way FFXIV did looting. Just make it mean nothing and that works too.
Ultima Online is a better elder scrolls game than ESO
Developers are really scared of making sandboxes because they're not wow