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This thread is so bubbly and cloy and happy, just like [Star Trek]

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Posts

  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Between Khan's healing blood and the first film's Transwarp Beaming, I wonder if every film in this series is going to introduce an alarmingly significant scientific advancement and then completely ignore its implications.

    Maybe Star Trek 3 has Chekov fight off an army of Klingons by using the transporter to create a thousand clones of himself. "Well, that was useful, but let's never discuss this again."

    Well to be fair, they did mention the trans-warp beaming in the second film.
    It was confiscated by Section 31 after the first film, and Khan uses it to escape to Qo'Nos.
    Sure, but it was used in a really limited way, just to get a villain from point a to point b.

    Well... yeah. What else would it be used for?
    The good guys can't use it at all since they don't have it. Khan uses it to escape from his damaged ship to Qo'Nos, which makes sense (the escape part, not the going to Qo'Nos part). Once on Qo'Nos, he's got no reason to use it until the Enterprise arrives. And when the Enterprise arrives he realizes his crew is on it and doesn't want to escape anymore, he wants to surrender and be taken onboard. After he surrenders he doesn't have access to his transporter anymore. The Section 31 super-warship presumably has trans-warp transporters as well, but no one on it has any reason to beam anywhere. So there's really no other point in the movie that this transporter could have been used in.
    It could've been incorporated into Marcus's Section 31 armaments somehow. That would've made Scotty's stake in things more personal, and it would've further emphasized the idea that Starfleet's mission was being perverted by the Admiral's pursuit of war.

    And really, if there was no reason for trans-warp to be used after Qo'Nos, that's only because the writers didn't care to invent any. If they'd really thought about what the technology could do, they'd create reasons for using it.

  • EriktheVikingGamerEriktheVikingGamer Imperial Magistrate of the Mantis Clan Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Tamin wrote: »
    I loved the part where Uhura beams down and keeps stunning Khan with a phaser as he lurches towards her like a human Terminator. The whole Spock sequence where he chases down and fights Khan was incredible.

    not sure if sarcastic, but I genuinely loved that bit

    Not sarcastic at all. That was one of the movie's best parts.

    I thought that was the least awesome action sequence in the movie personally.
    I'm glad they gave Uhura something to do to Khan to show her being a badass, even if it wasn't enough to defeat him. Though Khan was lucky she had orders to take him alive otherwise I can imagine she'd have killed him in one shot. I don't think his body could survive a fatal blast.
    I was talking to a friend about this the other day.

    I liked both Star Trek and Into Darkness, and I'd really like to see something new. But I don't know if I trust the writers of this film and whatever blist director they hire to take over for the threequel with a new idea.

    We'll see what the future holds with whoever takes up the reigns when Abrams leaves. Into Darkness sets up a few options to explore
    like Khan returning, hostilities increasing with the Klingon Empire, Sector 31 and the Five Year Mission.

    The Five Year Mission being interrupted by the Klingons wanting to have a word with Starfleet and Captain Kirk personally would be my best guess. Getting more specific I expect to see a subversion of the plot from The Undiscovered Country.

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  • IcemopperIcemopper Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    with the 'Lazarus of the week' telegraphed I doubt anyone was really all that surprised at the twist. So without the 'homage' element it was just going through the paces at the end.
    Richy wrote: »
    Between Khan's healing blood and the first film's Transwarp Beaming, I wonder if every film in this series is going to introduce an alarmingly significant scientific advancement and then completely ignore its implications.

    Maybe Star Trek 3 has Chekov fight off an army of Klingons by using the transporter to create a thousand clones of himself. "Well, that was useful, but let's never discuss this again."

    the worst part is they could have handwaved away Khan's transporter being soooooo good by saying "he made special modifications we have no idea how he did it", because Khan is a super genius
    But then the sum of the Enterprise Crew parts isn't better than the whole of just Kahn. Each person has a "better" attribute than one attribute of Kahn. Kirk has morals or bravery or something, Spock bested him in combat (somehow) and Scotty invented the transporter (right?) This way, the film says "As a group, if we work as a team, we are S-U-P-E-R we're SUPER! Yes yes, we're SUPER!"

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    I expect a sequel to remake TUC as well.

    Or First Contact if they hire a fucking moron.

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  • darleysamdarleysam UKRegistered User regular
    Thirith wrote: »
    To be honest, I'd find it hard to recommend anything other than DS9, and season 1 (apart from some highlights) of that one is badly dated. Voyager strikes me as such a relict of when TV was simpler and more childlike, and I simply don't have any interest in revisiting that unless the characters are really, really good. Compared to most of the Voyager crew (pre-Seven), even Deanna Troi is a good character, and they haven't got anyone approaching the level of Picard or Data.

    I dunno man, there's Tom Paris who's in the holodeck again living out yet another early 20th century fantasy scenario.

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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    I really wish they'd start exploring new territory with Star Trek, instead of remaking old plots over and over. I mean, JJ Abrams created an entirely new universe in the first film, and by the second film he's already out of ideas and remaking the TOS movies while we're speculating over which movie they'll remake next?

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    sullijo
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Into Darkness spoilers
    So what is the difference between being frozen forever and being killed other than the hypothetical being unfrozen that will never ever happen unless they really fuck up?

    In Space Seed, it made sense as they were getting the hell out of Dodge after their dictatorship fell with being frozen the only way to effectively space travel in those days.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Into Darkness spoilers
    So what is the difference between being frozen forever and being killed other than the hypothetical being unfrozen that will never ever happen unless they really fuck up?

    In Space Seed, it made sense as they were getting the hell out of Dodge after their dictatorship fell with being frozen the only way to effectively space travel in those days.

    None, really.

    Well, lazy storytelling plot resolution.

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    shryke
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Into Darkness spoilers
    So what is the difference between being frozen forever and being killed other than the hypothetical being unfrozen that will never ever happen unless they really fuck up?

    In Space Seed, it made sense as they were getting the hell out of Dodge after their dictatorship fell with being frozen the only way to effectively space travel in those days.
    that's so one day Khan and holographic Moriarty can get revenge on the Federation and the Enterprise piloted by Captain Wesley Crusher will be the only thing between them and the complete destruction of the known universe.

    Doom is imminent.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Same difference as in Demolition Man: Society no longer has a barbaric death penalty, but still has criminals bad enough to justify using it, so they need a pretty-much-death penalty, and for some reason a punishment in which the guilty goes to sleep and then wakes up an arbitrary time in the future having experienced no passage of time makes sense to writers.

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    With DS9, you can pretty much watch the pilot, watch Watlz, then skip to the end of season 2 and watch The Jem'hadar and The Search. After that, shit gets real and there's a driving concern hanging over the entire series. The most interesting thing you'll miss is Odo chasing an emu around the station and demonstrating why they call alien animals things like "Tarkalian hawk" and "Arcturan iguana," instead of the native word for it.

    I assume you mean Duet, the 1st season musically-named episode with the crazy Cardassian genocider, and not Waltz, the 6th season musically-named episode with the crazy Cardassian genocider.
    Richy wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Into Darkness spoilers
    So what is the difference between being frozen forever and being killed other than the hypothetical being unfrozen that will never ever happen unless they really fuck up?

    In Space Seed, it made sense as they were getting the hell out of Dodge after their dictatorship fell with being frozen the only way to effectively space travel in those days.

    None, really.

    Well, lazy storytelling plot resolution.

    So they can be woken up thousands of years from now, and find that society has passed them by, and that everything they ever cared about is gone! Like In The Neutral Zone. And... also one other episode from each series, I think. Psychological trauma punishment!

  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    If I were under the demolition man judicial system, I'd be murdering people. I'd love to spend 100 years in cryogenic sleep then wake up in the future with knowledge of knitting and lots of available taco bell locations.

    Robos A Go Gooverride367
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    hippofant wrote: »

    I assume you mean Duet, the 1st season musically-named episode with the crazy Cardassian genocider, and not Waltz, the 6th season musically-named episode with the crazy Cardassian genocider.
    Urp, yeah, that's the one. Similar themed episodes with similarly themed names. I should know better, though.

    So they can be woken up thousands of years from now, and find that society has passed them by, and that everything they ever cared about is gone! Like In The Neutral Zone. And... also one other episode from each series, I think. Psychological trauma punishment!

    Weren't the people in The Neutral Zone frozen willingly, though? The one guy in particular seemed to have done it mostly as a way to cheat the compound interest on his bank accounts. Boy was he thrilled to wake up two hundred years after Earth abolished money.

    Hevach on
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Hoz wrote: »
    If I were under the demolition man judicial system, I'd be murdering people. I'd love to spend 100 years in cryogenic sleep then wake up in the future with knowledge of knitting and lots of available taco bell locations.
    Sure you say that now, but imagine waking in a dystopian hellscape where the Arby's Underground had violently stolen control of the world food markets from Taco Bell.
    Granted, you can knit and can find the places that used to be Taco Bells, but now all you find there is roast beef sandwiches and curly fries.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Does anyone else think it isn't entirely fair or accurate to say that Into Darkness is a remake? They set themselves up for it, admittedly, but structurally and thematically the film is pretty different.

    Thirith on
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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    It's not a remake. It's not even an alternate reality version of the story. This is actually
    the first encounter of Khan and the Crew. If anything, it is a remake of Space Seed :P

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    So they can be woken up thousands of years from now, and find that society has passed them by, and that everything they ever cared about is gone! Like In The Neutral Zone. And... also one other episode from each series, I think. Psychological trauma punishment!

    Not every series. I don't think Enterprise did one. Which is odd, come to think of it, since they loved to reuse old plots in the worst possible way, and being a prequel to the other Treks it would have been the worst thing to do.

    "I don't want to shock you, but you've been in cryo-sleep for... 50 years! We tracked down your decedents, and all your children are still alive and well, they say hi."

    It'd be like the old South Park episode where they find and revive a man frozen since the 1990s, except with even more two-dimensional characters.

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  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    So they can be woken up thousands of years from now, and find that society has passed them by, and that everything they ever cared about is gone! Like In The Neutral Zone. And... also one other episode from each series, I think. Psychological trauma punishment!

    Not every series. I don't think Enterprise did one. Which is odd, come to think of it, since they loved to reuse old plots in the worst possible way, and being a prequel to the other Treks it would have been the worst thing to do.

    "I don't want to shock you, but you've been in cryo-sleep for... 50 years! We tracked down your decedents, and all your children are still alive and well, they say hi."

    It'd be like the old South Park episode where they find and revive a man frozen since the 1990s, except with even more two-dimensional characters.

    Enterprise did one with Augments though.

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  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    That's a perfect imitation of the writing for Captain Archer's dialogue. Did you watch it recently?

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    It's not a remake. It's not even an alternate reality version of the story. This is actually
    the first encounter of Khan and the Crew. If anything, it is a remake of Space Seed :P

    we need this stickied at the top of every page of the thread.

    Tamin on
  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Suggestion for new thread title: Star Trek: Boldly Going Thought the Motions

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Enterprise's Augments story was better than Into Darkness

    just with worst acting, graphics, cinematography, action, set design, lighting...
    But my biggest problems with Into Darkness might have been resolved with better casting and dialogue for Khan. I like Cumberbatch a lot, but he's nothing like Khan. Khan was charismatic as hell, Cumberbatch isn't

    override367 on
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    New Thread Title

    Star Trek Into Bitching

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    QuidKrieghund
  • EriktheVikingGamerEriktheVikingGamer Imperial Magistrate of the Mantis Clan Registered User regular
    Star Trek: The Retreaded Frontier?

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    I'm watching the original series right now. It is funny seeing Spock do stuff like violating direct orders in The Mark of Gideon.

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    I'm watching the original series right now. It is funny seeing Spock do stuff like violating direct orders in The Mark of Gideon.
    Just wait till you see Kirk beat the shit out of the Khan with an inanimate carbon rod.


    Super human my ass!

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    I'm watching the original series right now. It is funny seeing Spock do stuff like violating direct orders in The Mark of Gideon.

    I'm sure it was the logical thing to do.

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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    I'm watching the original series right now. It is funny seeing Spock do stuff like violating direct orders in The Mark of Gideon.
    Just wait till you see Kirk beat the shit out of the Khan with an inanimate carbon rod.


    Super human my ass!

    inrodwetrust.jpg

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    Dark Raven XkedinikShadowen
  • skyknytskyknyt Registered User, ClubPA regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    I'm watching the original series right now. It is funny seeing Spock do stuff like violating direct orders in The Mark of Gideon.
    Just wait till you see Kirk beat the shit out of the Khan with an inanimate carbon rod.


    Super human my ass!
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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular

  • BubbyBubby Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Into Darkness spoilers
    So what is the difference between being frozen forever and being killed other than the hypothetical being unfrozen that will never ever happen unless they really fuck up?

    In Space Seed, it made sense as they were getting the hell out of Dodge after their dictatorship fell with being frozen the only way to effectively space travel in those days.

    None, really.

    Well, lazy storytelling plot resolution.

    Everything about ID was lazy. It's depressing that writing so sloppy and unintelligent is basically the standard for blockbusters these days.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Hoz wrote: »

    Watching this is kinda painful since immediately as they get to the "let's talk about the plot" part, they get elements from the movie completely wrong.

  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    So you're saying it's a Half In The Bag then? :P

    Their review of Prometheus was worse.

    Oh brilliant
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    So you're saying it's a Half In The Bag then? :P

    Their review of Prometheus was worse.

    I don't remember them getting anything wrong plot-wise in the Prometheus video.

    shryke on
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  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Let's make sure that D&D History never forgets the name This thread is so bubbly and cloy and happy, just like [Star Trek].

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  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    shryke wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »

    Watching this is kinda painful since immediately as they get to the "let's talk about the plot" part, they get elements from the movie completely wrong.

    Well, like the 09 Star Trek, the plot of this movie doesn't make much sense when you think about it.
    Both Section 31 and Khan were pretty dumb and most of their plans depended a lot on coincidence.

    KingofMadCows on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »

    Watching this is kinda painful since immediately as they get to the "let's talk about the plot" part, they get elements from the movie completely wrong.

    Well, like the 09 Star Trek, the plot of this movie doesn't make much sense when you think about it.
    Both Section 31 and Khan were pretty dumb and most of their plans depended a lot on coincidence.
    That depends on what you think their plans were.

    I'm not sure on your thoughts, but in the video they make immediate huge mistake of assuming Khan's plan was to be captured by Kirk all along, when the movie seems to make it fairly obvious that EVERYONE thought Kirk would fire the damn torpedoes and his refusing to do so and taking Khan in alive is what throws both villain's plans into the woodchipper.

  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    They didn't make that assumption. They were just summarizing the plot.

    As for the villains and their idiocy and reliance on luck,
    Why did Section 31 decide to wake up Khan, the most cunning and power hungry of the augments, who also happens to be more of a warrior and leader rather than a scientist or engineer? Why not wake up an augment who specialized in designing/building weapons?

    Why did Section 31 even let Khan near the other augments? Sure, they should keep a few augments near him to assure him of their good faith but all of them? In fact, it seems like the security measures around really sucked.

    Why did Admiral Marcus want the Enterprise destroyed? He wants to instigate war with the Klingons, destroying the Enterprise would weaken Starfleet's position. If he launches the torpedoes, the Klingons are going to suspect the Federation anyway and that's plenty of excuse to further militarize Starfleet.

    Assuming that the Enterprise must be destroyed, why did Marcus give the Enterprise the torpedoes? Why not send Kirk on a mission to capture Khan but go to the neutral zone with the Vengeance to launch the torpedoes before the Enterprise arrives so that when the Enterprise gets stranded, the Klingons will find it and destroy it. Or wait until the Enterprise gets stranded in the neutral zone and then come in with the Vengeance to blow up the Enterprise and launch the torpedoes. Either way, giving the Enterprise the torpedoes did nothing but arose everyone's suspicion.

    How did Khan know so much about Starfleet, Section 31, Admiral Marcus, and how they operated? Of course, this goes back to the problem of Section 31's incompetence but it still doesn't make any sense how Khan would know how Marcus would react.

    Why did Khan agree to surrender to Kirk? He knew that the Enterprise was stranded and Marcus was coming to destroy it. He had no idea that Scotty would sabotage the Vengeance. Was he just planning to die? It would have made more sense for him to hold Kirk and the away team hostage and exchange them for his crew.

    KingofMadCows on
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