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[Dota 2] Nyx Assassin, Keeper of the Light, and Visage this week, and straight to CM.

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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    What wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Okay. Here is what I don't get about Sniper.

    Everyone hates him. Everyone hates playing against/with him. No competitive team chooses him. But whenever I'm against or with him in a game he seems to very rapidly get fed and then stomp. Like, more than any other hero I've seen consistently. wat?

    He's a pubstomper. Like Spiritbreaker and Huskar, he only does well if the team he's playing against is bad . Just gank him(which is very easy) and watch him fall apart.

    Harder to do if he goes mid, at least early game. I guess you could run Night Stalker and crap all over him once you hit 6/it becomes night.

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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    At least from the few games I've seen with him, Sniper does very well in pub games because:

    At level 1 he outranges most people and his attack animation is great. He's essentially going to plink you for his hilariously low damage every time you get into range and still get a decent amount of last hits regardless of whether you're melee or ranged. If your lane can't stun him from range, he's gonna have a good time against you.

    By level 3 he outranges pretty much everybody in the game and his bash is just phenomenal because it means 25% of the time they try to last hit/trade poke against you, they don't get to do so and still take the damage. Again, if he's in a lane that can't pressure him, he's gonna have a great time.

    At level 6, he can reasonably snipe twice just for the lulz of harassing and still have enough mana for a killsnipe. This means that, combined with his ability to wear people down (now a 30% chance of bash and outranging everybody), and the fact that ganks seem to happen very rarely in pub games (and the fact that wards are up often enough in pub games Sniper may see the gank coming), he's dominating an easy lane.

    Obviously, this doesn't work if the opponent's switch lanes (never gonna happen in a pub game), gank aggressively (rarely gonna happen, especially if their mid isn't Pudge or a hero with a blink), but as long as the Sniper is smart and gets his freefarm on for a while, he's pretty powerful in fights starting at midgame just due to range, Shadowblade, and his bash; as long as the initiation doesn't take place within 500 range of Sniper, he can generally do work because fights get stupid.

    Note that I am a horrible pub player myself, so this may be inaccurate.

    EDIT: to D_S: Doesn't NS usually not take his ult at six because that's about when night starts/a minute or so into night depending on if he's laning in a sidelane or mid? I agree with the sentiment of "NS can beat the crap out of Sniper come night" however, especially if he buys a shield and isn't stupid before then.

    milski on
    I ate an engineer
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    DroolDrool Science! AustinRegistered User regular
    If you see someone pick Sniper in all pick just pick Bounty Hunter. You can three shot him with Phase/Drum which is pretty easy to farm, and if he gets shadow blade you laugh because he's a noob and still dies.

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    SerukoSeruko Ferocious Kitten of The Farthest NorthRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    What wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Okay. Here is what I don't get about Sniper.

    Everyone hates him. Everyone hates playing against/with him. No competitive team chooses him. But whenever I'm against or with him in a game he seems to very rapidly get fed and then stomp. Like, more than any other hero I've seen consistently. wat?

    He's a pubstomper. Like Spiritbreaker and Huskar, he only does well if the team he's playing against is bad . Just gank him(which is very easy) and watch him fall apart.

    Essentially the above, he cant run, his damage aint great, he's super item dependant, he has no farming steroid and he doesnt bring anything special to a team fight.
    So compare him to like say SF, well SF has no escape either, is not as item dependant, has a great farming steroid, has an alright ream fight ability and a great team fight ability.
    Or Morphling, who can escape like a mother fucker (self tp, self blink+damage), is incredibly hard to kill with strength morph, does great damage with agillity morph, has great farming ability, has a dependable stun, and some alright team fight (with both wave form and replicant again).

    Basically Sniper is good in lane, if left alone and brings nothing to the team fight.
    Drool wrote: »
    If you see someone pick Sniper in all pick just pick Bounty Hunter. You can three shot him with Phase/Drum which is pretty easy to farm, and if he gets shadow blade you laugh because he's a noob and still dies.

    ^^ dat right there.

    Seruko on
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    SeveredHeadSeveredHead Registered User regular
    this is kind of making me wanna play sniper...



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    DroolDrool Science! AustinRegistered User regular
    He's seriously the worst.

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    SparvySparvy Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    EDIT: to D_S: Doesn't NS usually not take his ult at six because that's about when night starts/a minute or so into night depending on if he's laning in a sidelane or mid? I agree with the sentiment of "NS can beat the crap out of Sniper come night" however, especially if he buys a shield and isn't stupid before then.

    You should use your ult as soon as the first night starts, that way you will be able to use it multiple times during the night to make it really long.

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    Page-Page- Registered User regular
    So they finally add swap, but not in sd?!?!

    Time to never play that mode again.

    Competitive Gaming and Writing Blog Updated in October: "Song (and Story) of the Day"
    Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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    SeveredHeadSeveredHead Registered User regular
    Sparvy wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    EDIT: to D_S: Doesn't NS usually not take his ult at six because that's about when night starts/a minute or so into night depending on if he's laning in a sidelane or mid? I agree with the sentiment of "NS can beat the crap out of Sniper come night" however, especially if he buys a shield and isn't stupid before then.

    You should use your ult as soon as the first night starts, that way you will be able to use it multiple times during the night to make it really long.
    i usually get hunter of the night at 6 because by then its already night, and then get ulti at 7 or maybe even 8.

    that extra lv of hunter is just gonna help you get that first gank off.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    CorriganX wrote: »
    Zeus, Crystal Maiden, and Clinkz are all terrible last hitters. Clinkz can offset his by using the burning arrow ability to do a huge chunk of damage, making last hitting easier. Anti-Mage has really good last hitting. Sniper's is amazing, as was listed earlier. Too bad sniper is very difficult to play in real matches. :p

    Hah, the guy I was playing last before I threw my hands up in the air in frustration and quit was Clinkz.

    I feel better all of a sudden.

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    SparvySparvy Registered User regular
    I think juggernaut is one of my favorite last hitters, find him easier than AM. Apart from when riki gets backstab but that is not even fair.

    Zeus isn't that bad either since you just get one level in arc lightning first and spam that to get last hits.

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    ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    So the patch tonight added hero swapping but not in SD. Is that a deliberate design decision or just not yet implemented there?

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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UntGOL1WqE4

    Skip to 1 minute in to ignore the pointless intro.

    This is some impressive Invoking.

    I ate an engineer
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    shadydentistshadydentist Registered User regular
    Sparvy wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    EDIT: to D_S: Doesn't NS usually not take his ult at six because that's about when night starts/a minute or so into night depending on if he's laning in a sidelane or mid? I agree with the sentiment of "NS can beat the crap out of Sniper come night" however, especially if he buys a shield and isn't stupid before then.

    You should use your ult as soon as the first night starts, that way you will be able to use it multiple times during the night to make it really long.
    i usually get hunter of the night at 6 because by then its already night, and then get ulti at 7 or maybe even 8.

    that extra lv of hunter is just gonna help you get that first gank off.

    In pro games, you see players always getting ultimate at 6 unless they think they can make it to 7 before night starts. Spamming your ult as soon as night starts makes a huge difference in the duration of the first night time.

    Steam & GT
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    SeveredHeadSeveredHead Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Sparvy wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    EDIT: to D_S: Doesn't NS usually not take his ult at six because that's about when night starts/a minute or so into night depending on if he's laning in a sidelane or mid? I agree with the sentiment of "NS can beat the crap out of Sniper come night" however, especially if he buys a shield and isn't stupid before then.

    You should use your ult as soon as the first night starts, that way you will be able to use it multiple times during the night to make it really long.
    i usually get hunter of the night at 6 because by then its already night, and then get ulti at 7 or maybe even 8.

    that extra lv of hunter is just gonna help you get that first gank off.

    In pro games, you see players always getting ultimate at 6 unless they think they can make it to 7 before night starts. Spamming your ult as soon as night starts makes a huge difference in the duration of the first night time.
    i dont really agree with popping ulti as soon as night starts, i get why people do it to make the night time longer. but i think you should save your ulti until there is a ganking opportunity, there is no point in a long ass nighttime if everybody is just sitting behind tower or grouped up.

    it can be good, but dont just pop it mindlessly when nighttime starts.

    SeveredHead on
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    HeleorHeleor SeattleRegistered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    I don't get it either, I know in pub games he can usually clean house, very easy to farm up with, gets pretty dangerous with just a shadowblade, can take mid and shit on whoever he's against. Very easy to kill though, and only a problem with shadowblade because pub teams never buy dust.

    He is very easy to last hit and deny with. That by itself makes random pubs more dangerous with him. :)

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    SeveredHeadSeveredHead Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Sparvy wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    EDIT: to D_S: Doesn't NS usually not take his ult at six because that's about when night starts/a minute or so into night depending on if he's laning in a sidelane or mid? I agree with the sentiment of "NS can beat the crap out of Sniper come night" however, especially if he buys a shield and isn't stupid before then.

    You should use your ult as soon as the first night starts, that way you will be able to use it multiple times during the night to make it really long.
    i usually get hunter of the night at 6 because by then its already night, and then get ulti at 7 or maybe even 8.

    that extra lv of hunter is just gonna help you get that first gank off.

    In pro games, you see players always getting ultimate at 6 unless they think they can make it to 7 before night starts. Spamming your ult as soon as night starts makes a huge difference in the duration of the first night time.
    i dont really agree with popping ulti as soon as night starts, i get why people do it to make the night time longer. but i think you should save your ulti until there is a ganking opportunity, there is no point in a long ass nighttime if everybody is just sitting behind tower or grouped up.

    it can be good, but dont just pop it mindlessly when nighttime starts.
    you know what? forget what i just said, im an idiot.

    ok nighttime lasts for 6 mins, ulti has a max cd of 120 secs with no mana cost, by the time its day you will have ulti again... so yah you should pop it whenever night comes.

    i still stand by not getting ulti until 7 though.

    SeveredHead on
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    AlectharAlecthar Alan Shore We're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered User regular
    Sparvy wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    EDIT: to D_S: Doesn't NS usually not take his ult at six because that's about when night starts/a minute or so into night depending on if he's laning in a sidelane or mid? I agree with the sentiment of "NS can beat the crap out of Sniper come night" however, especially if he buys a shield and isn't stupid before then.

    You should use your ult as soon as the first night starts, that way you will be able to use it multiple times during the night to make it really long.
    i usually get hunter of the night at 6 because by then its already night, and then get ulti at 7 or maybe even 8.

    that extra lv of hunter is just gonna help you get that first gank off.

    In pro games, you see players always getting ultimate at 6 unless they think they can make it to 7 before night starts. Spamming your ult as soon as night starts makes a huge difference in the duration of the first night time.
    i dont really agree with popping ulti as soon as night starts, i get why people do it to make the night time longer. but i think you should save your ulti until there is a ganking opportunity, there is no point in a long ass nighttime if everybody is just sitting behind tower or grouped up.

    it can be good, but dont just pop it mindlessly when nighttime starts.
    you know what? forget what i just said, im an idiot.

    ok nighttime lasts for 6 mins, ulti has a max cd of 120 secs with no mana cost, by the time its day you will have ulti again... so yah you should pop it whenever night comes.

    i still stand by not getting ulti until 7 though.

    Night-time Lvl 4 Void is really damn good, so in my experience you want to be able to pick that up at 7. Being able to extend night as early and often as possible and having that additional damage on your nuke is more valuable, IMO, than another lvl in Hunter in the Night.

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    Dac VinDac Vin S-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC! Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Look I don't get it, what game are you guys playing that makes Sniper such a housecleaner? I literally almost never see him do well, and I'm not of particularly high skill either.

    edit: unrelated to Sniper: http://www.dota2.com/international/location/attendance/

    The International will be free to watch.

    Dac Vin on
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    BigKevBigKev Registered User regular
    Blendtec wrote: »
    BigKev wrote: »
    Drool wrote: »
    Taking the suicide lane as Darkseer is so much fun. And I win way more because I know the hard lane won't be a feedfest.
    So good. Especially against melee carries, orb is the best harassment, and completely neuters their ability to farm.

    The first time I played Dark Seer I had no idea what I was doing, was only casting orb on myself and stuff. Then I accidentally cast it on a creep and my world opened up. It's not even about getting kills with Dark Seer, it's about giggling like a school girl when you get a perfect void of all 5 players onto a laser wall or ruin some carries' farming with orbs or harassing with orbs and voids and hauling ass out of there with the speed boost.

    Best thing: Putting an Orb on the opposing siege unit. It stays there for ages, and is in the perfect spot to hurt those trying to farm or even just trying to get xp. Whenever that siege unit comes, get one on there and enjoy.

    Steam ID : BigKev87
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    CorriganXCorriganX Jacksonville, FLRegistered User regular
    Valve has confirmed that they will be streaming The Invitational 2 through their client free of charge. :D

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    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    Drool wrote: »
    If you see someone pick Sniper in all pick just pick Bounty Hunter. You can three shot him with Phase/Drum which is pretty easy to farm, and if he gets shadow blade you laugh because he's a noob and still dies.
    Also, against clinkz. So satisfying watching that little skeleton explode into fire when I jinada him.

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    FlipprDolphinFlipprDolphin Registered User regular
    I am a very good clinkz, hes one of my favorite mids :)

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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Oh lord, managed to actually suck it up as Tide last night, I didn't even think that was possible. Luckily it was one of those nice games where my team carried my terrible play.

    Dark_Side on
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    mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    its very easy to suck as tide. i do it whenever i play him. though i am an expert at sucking at heroes

    played invoker for a match last night. did a QE build and enjoyed it though i found it stressful trying to manage spells in a fight.
    i thnk having some sort of graphic or somthing for his spell combos available would be nice. i know you can hit the question mark but it takes up precious real estate.

    camo_sig.png
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    BlendtecBlendtec Registered User regular
    Last night I did my 5th game as Lion and as Drow. I feel like I'm terrible as Lion, I tend to die a lot and be on losing teams where I don't even have a chance to get a real build going. On Drow even on losing teams I get at least 7 kills, usually 12+ with only a few deaths and even more assists. Skill bar? Over 5 for Lion, about 2 for Drow. I don't understand.

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    mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    i believe the skill bar is based against how other people at your level do with that hero. so you are probably doing better as lion then them where as they are doing better as drow.

    its kind of silly. i usually play a hard support omni and don't focus on k/a and it has me ranked really low though i thnk he is one of my better heroes

    also has anyone else seen the giant whirlwind that will chase you around the lanes?

    I had it show up in my match last night. didn't know what it did so I ran. it didn't seem to hurt creeps but i think my teammate said it caused them damage

    mts on
    camo_sig.png
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    That's from the Wildkin creep from the jungle. If Enchantress or Chen take over that creep they can have it throw out that whirlwind.

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    DroolDrool Science! AustinRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Blendtec wrote: »
    Last night I did my 5th game as Lion and as Drow. I feel like I'm terrible as Lion, I tend to die a lot and be on losing teams where I don't even have a chance to get a real build going. On Drow even on losing teams I get at least 7 kills, usually 12+ with only a few deaths and even more assists. Skill bar? Over 5 for Lion, about 2 for Drow. I don't understand.

    The skill bar is based on how well you farm compared to people your skill level. So most likely you are spending too much time farming with Lion which is why you are losing. You should be ganking and buying wards and stuff. I play a decent Lion and I have like two bars because most people take him mid, but I usually end up babysitting when I pick him. Most people who play Drow farm all day so you need to get a lot of items each game to raise that bar.

    Drool on
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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Alright, I now feel comfortable playing Venomancer, Chaos Knight and Queen of Pain. Only a few more weeks of grinding random picks in bot games to get a nice stable of heroes I can play with some confidence.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    DroolDrool Science! AustinRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    I would just pick some heroes you are interested and play a bunch of games with them rather then doing a bunch of randoms. Learn like one hero in each role then a few more in your favorite role, then play against people because it's way more fun.

    Drool on
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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    The's the problem though, I'm not sure what roles I like. I like the pushers a bit, but really I just like Venomancer. I like carries a bit, but really I just love CK. Queen of Pain is just a "Oh hey, I get this, I can play this if I have to" pick, I'm not fascinated with her.

    If I could play CK every game, I would, because I maul with him. He plays much like my favorite LoL heroes (Udyr, Shyvanna, Olaf, et al).

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    BlendtecBlendtec Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Alright, I now feel comfortable playing Venomancer, Chaos Knight and Queen of Pain. Only a few more weeks of grinding random picks in bot games to get a nice stable of heroes I can play with some confidence.

    I'd say I'm pretty comfortable with about 5 heroes, I know a decent amount about another 5 to round out my "favorites". I'm trying to get at least 5 games in as everyone so I know a little about them and what they can do against me. Plus I like those skill bars.
    Drool wrote: »
    Blendtec wrote: »
    Last night I did my 5th game as Lion and as Drow. I feel like I'm terrible as Lion, I tend to die a lot and be on losing teams where I don't even have a chance to get a real build going. On Drow even on losing teams I get at least 7 kills, usually 12+ with only a few deaths and even more assists. Skill bar? Over 5 for Lion, about 2 for Drow. I don't understand.

    The skill bar is based on how well you farm compared to people your skill level. So most likely you are spending too much time farming with Lion which is why you are losing. You should be ganking and buying wards and stuff. I play a decent Lion and I have like two bars because most people take him mid, but I usually end up babysitting when I pick him. Most people who play Drow farm all day so you need to get a lot of items each game to raise that bar.

    That's just it though. I farm like crazy as Drow, usually ending games with way more gold than I know what to do with. On Lion I barely farm at all and spend most of my time in a support role or helping with ganks. Usually when I lose a game it's because my team has decided 4 melee carries and me as our 1 support and 1 ranged is a good idea.

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Blendtec wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Yeah, it's like pulling teeth to get people to push sometimes. A game last night was going pretty well and seemed pretty even with us having a slight edge, but then the team was almost hesitant to go for a rax push bot even though their BH (biggest threat) was pushing bot and two of their other characters were dead, with a minion wave about where the second tower was and all of us in the lane.

    We did it, and that push won the game. Who would have thought that a 5v2 then a 5v1 then a 5v2 would result in us picking up free kills and them losing the game?

    I hate when I'm with a team that can not seem to understand what an advantage is and when to press it. When we kill all 5 people in a team fight and only lose 1 of ours and everyone has at least 45 seconds to respawn, push a lane down a bit. Don't run off jungling or wander around until they all respawn.

    I think my biggest problem though is being on teams that don't understand stealth and ganks. If the enemy team has Riki, Clinkz, or has bought shadow blades, maybe it's not such a good idea to run off by yourself. Of course they always do and somehow it's everyone elses' fault when they die alone on the opposite side of the map while everyone else is pushing or fighting together.

    My biggest problem is that I play initiators and people don't understand that - for one pretty common example - if I've finished a blink dagger on Axe, we can in fact kill one or more guys as a result of my taunt, because we're at scrub skill-levels. The pushing thing ties in with that to create the "we're farming for 50 minutes and then losing," scenario that's awful common and totally mind-blowing to me.

    Auralynx on
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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Just a quick question here: Does anybody happen to have an extra invite lying around? I'm looking to get a friend into the game if possible.

    I ate an engineer
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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Part of that "farm for 50 minutes and then lose" mentality comes from the ground up though. When you first get in to Dota (or really any MOBA), you're told "#1 priority, stay alive!!", and this is reinforced by the fact that a lot of chuckle-fucks in the Dota community will FREAK THE FUCK OUT and scream at you if you take a bad death, or get over extended by being aggressive...so people learn to play as safe as humanly possible.

    This gets magnified in a game like Dota 2 that really rewards smart aggression, but has a social component that greatly disincentivizes being aggressive.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    BlendtecBlendtec Registered User regular
    I don't think I could play if I saw this. I'd just give up.

    TkPrp.jpg

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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    That's amazing.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    That takes effort. I applaud that shit, despite hating matching name nonsense.

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    Dac VinDac Vin S-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC! Registered User regular
    I love Witch Doctor, though for a reason nobody on this forum will get.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTUvx1-YIjo

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