I'm almost to the point where I'm too afraid to go any further since the ending is going to be such a let down. Everything so far has just been getting cooler and cooler after a bit of a slow start (and a sad lack of exploration) but the missions are really dramatic (both main missions and side missions) and I've been satisfied with the outcomes I've been able to achieve. I got incredibly frustrated with the Quarians though!
Pull your fleets back you damned space idiots! I keep telling you to retreat, and you keep attacking. I don't care how great an oportunity this is for you, I needed that Geth Dreadnaught!
The ending really isn't that bad. It isn't great, but it's not the abomination the uproar would make you think it is.
Well, I disagree with that first part. I do think it is that bad, but as Gnometank said, just the (literally) last 5 minutes. Everything in the game leading up to it is wonderful, one of the best games I've ever played. Even most of the actual ending sequence is fine. Not good, for sure, but thematically, where it seemed to be going was perfectly fine, if not a tad disappointing. Up to the point that there is probably the one of the most powerful moments in the entire series; but I won't spoil that.
And then? Yeah. I wish I could go Eternal Sunshine and get rid of just that 5 minutes and have the game end at that one point. It still would have been somewhat unsatisfying, but it would have been more powerful, more appropriate and made "everyone speculates" be less about "oh god why is it so bad" and more "well what do you think happened next?".
I seem to remember liking the ending of Eternal Sunshine...
What? Yes, Eternal Sunshine is one of my favorite movies.
I mean the memory erasing part. :P
OH! I thought you were comparing the ending of ME3 with some similar flaw in the ending of Eternal Sunshine.
This makes much more sense.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
I'm almost to the point where I'm too afraid to go any further since the ending is going to be such a let down. Everything so far has just been getting cooler and cooler after a bit of a slow start (and a sad lack of exploration) but the missions are really dramatic (both main missions and side missions) and I've been satisfied with the outcomes I've been able to achieve. I got incredibly frustrated with the Quarians though!
Pull your fleets back you damned space idiots! I keep telling you to retreat, and you keep attacking. I don't care how great an oportunity this is for you, I needed that Geth Dreadnaught!
The ending really isn't that bad. It isn't great, but it's not the abomination the uproar would make you think it is.
Well, I disagree with that first part. I do think it is that bad, but as Gnometank said, just the (literally) last 5 minutes. Everything in the game leading up to it is wonderful, one of the best games I've ever played. Even most of the actual ending sequence is fine. Not good, for sure, but thematically, where it seemed to be going was perfectly fine, if not a tad disappointing. Up to the point that there is probably the one of the most powerful moments in the entire series; but I won't spoil that.
And then? Yeah. I wish I could go Eternal Sunshine and get rid of just that 5 minutes and have the game end at that one point. It still would have been somewhat unsatisfying, but it would have been more powerful, more appropriate and made "everyone speculates" be less about "oh god why is it so bad" and more "well what do you think happened next?".
I seem to remember liking the ending of Eternal Sunshine...
What? Yes, Eternal Sunshine is one of my favorite movies.
I mean the memory erasing part. :P
OH! I thought you were comparing the ending of ME3 with some similar flaw in the ending of Eternal Sunshine.
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
For me, the entire ending situation has long ago morphed from speculation about the ending, to general disgust at how militant people have become about the ending. To the point of shouting others down who don't share their exact opinion about it.
The whole situation has gotten so ugly, that the fact that the ending is unsatisfying is almost secondary to the circus that has popped up around it.
Who's shouting down people who disagree with their opinion? I sure hope it's not me
No no, not even on these forums, just the world at large. Some of the vitriol being thrown around about the ending has just gone beyond stupid, and for me, has completely over shadowed any short comings of the ending.
You shouldn't build up indignation over things people on official forums and reddit say, otherwise using the internet is going to be a long difficult road
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
I stand by my theory that the ending we see today in ME3 is almost entirely because of budgetary and/or schedule constraints. It feels more like a storyboard, a framework for what they wanted the ending to be, with filler to come later...except later never came, most likely because EA wanted ME3 released when it was released, and not six months later leading in to the Christmas season.
No one will ever come out and say that, and we can't prove it, but that's how the ending feels to me, in terms of the herky jerky nature of it, and how things just sort of pop up with little to no explanation.
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
I actually missed all that, and didn't even know people had a problem with it until much, much later. Then I was like, "What? But that part was so cool!" (I really am secretly a member of the B.O.B.)
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
When you get downed in multiplayer, you fly all around the room like a ruptured balloon.
I'd play that game all day.
Of course, with some of the fun bugs I've seen recently (running around above Firebase Ghost, like 300 feet above Firebase Ghost)... shouldn't be that much of a stretch.
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
I actually missed all that, and didn't even know people had a problem with it until much, much later. Then I was like, "What? But that part was so cool!" (I really am secretly a member of the B.O.B.)
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
The screaming was drowned out by the all the perfection. Listen, I loved ME2 and the Suicide Mission so much that I spent the next four months replaying the game over and over and over. The ending in ME3 disgusted me so strongly that I still can't bring myself to start a new game, even as a Vanguard.
Read that last sentence again.
Assuming I'm not the only ME3 purchaser who feels this way, this is a serious problem for Bioware.
What if you include all those minutes where you scan shit?
I.. I liked the scanning in ME3.
(Reaper trolling FTW).
Yes! Since EDI has a body, I wonder how hard it would be for her to strap herself to the exterior of the Normandy to extend both middle fingers as we leave them in our ion trail.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
For me, the entire ending situation has long ago morphed from speculation about the ending, to general disgust at how militant people have become about the ending. To the point of shouting others down who don't share their exact opinion about it.
The whole situation has gotten so ugly, that the fact that the ending is unsatisfying is almost secondary to the circus that has popped up around it.
Who's shouting down people who disagree with their opinion? I sure hope it's not me
No no, not even on these forums, just the world at large. Some of the vitriol being thrown around about the ending has just gone beyond stupid, and for me, has completely over shadowed any short comings of the ending.
You shouldn't build up indignation over things people on official forums and reddit say, otherwise using the internet is going to be a long difficult road
Eh, I'm a veteran of this internet thing...been doing it since you needed Trumpet Winsock to connect to the intrawebs because Windows 3.1 didn't have a native TCP/IP stack. A meme wasn't even a thing yet (the definition existed, but it hadn't been put in to practice on the internet).
Doesn't change the fact that I think the vitriol over this ending took a left at the Stupid Town exit a while back.
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
I stand by my theory that the ending we see today in ME3 is almost entirely because of budgetary and/or schedule constraints. It feels more like a storyboard, a framework for what they wanted the ending to be, with filler to come later...except later never came, most likely because EA wanted ME3 released when it was released, and not six months later leading in to the Christmas season.
No one will ever come out and say that, and we can't prove it, but that's how the ending feels to me, in terms of the herky jerky nature of it, and how things just sort of pop up with little to no explanation.
Didn't most people hate the very concept & lack of logic of the ME2 endboss at the time?
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
I stand by my theory that the ending we see today in ME3 is almost entirely because of budgetary and/or schedule constraints. It feels more like a storyboard, a framework for what they wanted the ending to be, with filler to come later...except later never came, most likely because EA wanted ME3 released when it was released, and not six months later leading in to the Christmas season.
No one will ever come out and say that, and we can't prove it, but that's how the ending feels to me, in terms of the herky jerky nature of it, and how things just sort of pop up with little to no explanation.
Except the game was already delayed. How long can you keep delaying a game when you aren't Blizzard or Valve, and you have a $200 million investment into TOR that hasn't made its money back yet?
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ComradebotLord of DinosaursHouston, TXRegistered Userregular
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
Badassfully: I do not. Were people upset you fought the terminator at the end of ME2? Because I thought the final boss fight of ME2 was pretty fucking epic.
Badassfully:
Also, ME3 doesn't have a real boss fight at the end... just lots and lots and lots of Reaper forces in the most terrifying combinations possible. Those Banshees at the end were pretty rough, especially with Kaidan constantly hugging them. The Harvestor just kinda sucked though. Cloak, Incinerate, unload with the Raptor while I'm uncloaking into his face... and a couple rounds of that and it's dead. Also, Brutes aren't overly scary as an Infiltrator. Did help a couple of them start beating on an already defeated Tali and completely ignored me.
Badassfully: It almost makes me suspicious that we didn't get a big boss fight, even a lot of the DLC in ME2 had those (Kasumi against the South African super-villain in his gunship, the Yagh in Shadow Broker)... but there is none to be had to end ME3. Interesting indeed.
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mojojoeoA block off the park, living the dream.Registered Userregular
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
The screaming was drowned out by the all the perfection. Listen, I loved ME2 and the Suicide Mission so much that I spent the next four months replaying the game over and over and over. The ending in ME3 disgusted me so strongly that I still can't bring myself to start a new game, even as a Vanguard.
Read that last sentence again.
Assuming I'm not the only ME3 purchaser who feels this way, this is a serious problem for Bioware.
This right here. I am with you. If not for MP, i would not be playing this anymore.
Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
I actually missed all that, and didn't even know people had a problem with it until much, much later. Then I was like, "What? But that part was so cool!" (I really am secretly a member of the B.O.B.)
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
I stand by my theory that the ending we see today in ME3 is almost entirely because of budgetary and/or schedule constraints. It feels more like a storyboard, a framework for what they wanted the ending to be, with filler to come later...except later never came, most likely because EA wanted ME3 released when it was released, and not six months later leading in to the Christmas season.
No one will ever come out and say that, and we can't prove it, but that's how the ending feels to me, in terms of the herky jerky nature of it, and how things just sort of pop up with little to no explanation.
I think that and the things we've found out about the lack of peer review on the ending.
I mean, between these things, what else could it be? You have the whole ending sequence in ME as a standard (to me, anyway) of one of the best leadups and endings in gaming history; and while I didn't think ME2's was quite as powerful (for story reasons, mainly, execution wise it was just as excellent), it is still up there in the echelons of amazing quality ending sequences and then....me3. It's been compared before but it's like the boss fights in DX:HR, where its so jarring that for some people, it did ruin the game. People literally stopped playing DX:HR after the first boss, despite the rest of the entire game being so good. It feels like that all over. It feels like it was tossed to a different team, not really checked for thematic consistancy and tossed in to ship. Then whoops
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
I actually missed all that, and didn't even know people had a problem with it until much, much later. Then I was like, "What? But that part was so cool!" (I really am secretly a member of the B.O.B.)
Wait, T-800 what? The thing in Salvation?
The last boss of ME2.
Oh, yeah that makes more sense.
Still, aside from the herpderp 3 eyes thing, I never understood the complaints about that one. I thought it made sense.
For me, the entire ending situation has long ago morphed from speculation about the ending, to general disgust at how militant people have become about the ending. To the point of shouting others down who don't share their exact opinion about it.
The whole situation has gotten so ugly, that the fact that the ending is unsatisfying is almost secondary to the circus that has popped up around it.
Who's shouting down people who disagree with their opinion? I sure hope it's not me
No no, not even on these forums, just the world at large. Some of the vitriol being thrown around about the ending has just gone beyond stupid, and for me, has completely over shadowed any short comings of the ending.
You shouldn't build up indignation over things people on official forums and reddit say, otherwise using the internet is going to be a long difficult road
Eh, I'm a veteran of this internet thing...been doing it since you needed Trumpet Winsock to connect to the intrawebs because Windows 3.1 didn't have a native TCP/IP stack. A meme wasn't even a thing yet (the definition existed, but it hadn't been put in to practice on the internet).
Doesn't change the fact that I think the vitriol over this ending took a left at the Stupid Town exit a while back.
Well I'll just have to disagree, there's certainly a shit ton general dissatisfaction, but most of the vitriol I think is an escalation of the generally vitriolic reaction to gamers that the gaming press has had.
For gamers specifically going overboard in the vitriol department at the ending (and not as a response to say, jim sterling trolling them), that's mostly been confined to cesspits and official forums anyway
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
I stand by my theory that the ending we see today in ME3 is almost entirely because of budgetary and/or schedule constraints. It feels more like a storyboard, a framework for what they wanted the ending to be, with filler to come later...except later never came, most likely because EA wanted ME3 released when it was released, and not six months later leading in to the Christmas season.
No one will ever come out and say that, and we can't prove it, but that's how the ending feels to me, in terms of the herky jerky nature of it, and how things just sort of pop up with little to no explanation.
I very much agree about the ending structure. Obviously they had something else in mind for the London showdown, something closer to the Suicide Mission, but dropped it late in the process. As for why they dropped it, well, assuming that the "final days" stuff is true, it's because a couple of senior people in the development team wanted an ending full of questions and nobody was able to talk them out of it.
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
I stand by my theory that the ending we see today in ME3 is almost entirely because of budgetary and/or schedule constraints. It feels more like a storyboard, a framework for what they wanted the ending to be, with filler to come later...except later never came, most likely because EA wanted ME3 released when it was released, and not six months later leading in to the Christmas season.
No one will ever come out and say that, and we can't prove it, but that's how the ending feels to me, in terms of the herky jerky nature of it, and how things just sort of pop up with little to no explanation.
Except the game was already delayed. How long can you keep delaying a game when you aren't Blizzard or Valve, and you have a $200 million investment into TOR that hasn't made its money back yet?
Given BioWare's track record? I'd think you could delay it long enough to flesh out the story board ending. This isn't Some Random Developer 101, it's BioWare. I think they've earned the Blizzard/Valve treatment of getting the time they need to complete a game, within reason.
The 200m dollar investment may have had a lot to do with it, though that game seems to be doing pretty alright for itself.
If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
The screaming was drowned out by the all the perfection. Listen, I loved ME2 and the Suicide Mission so much that I spent the next four months replaying the game over and over and over. The ending in ME3 disgusted me so strongly that I still can't bring myself to start a new game, even as a Vanguard.
Read that last sentence again.
Assuming I'm not the only ME3 purchaser who feels this way, this is a serious problem for Bioware.
And that is what I like about these games. Very different opinions on things.
ME2 spoiler edit in case not beyond statute of spoiler limitations.
For me I thought the ME2 "ending" was just so contrived. Really? A human reaper? Really? But it didn't really bother me in the end as I had enjoyed the rest of the game that I still did another play through. AND a third "faithful to Liara" playthrough before ME3 came out. I too thought the end of ME3 was odd and jarring, but Tuchanka and Rannoch were just so amazing that there's nothing short of coming to my house and a square kick to the nuts that bioware could have done to ruin those moments.
People usually remember the last emotion they feel with something rather than all the shit in the middle.
It's such a shame if it had ended at that part a few minutes before the end, with some minor changes and an epilogue after the fact, it would have left me with a feeling of catharsis and not frustration
you did good child-> cut to black -> cutscene plays -> shep survives or not based on war assets
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
there's nothing short of coming to my house and a square kick to the quads that bioware could have done to ruin those moments.
There needs to be a Volus "Biotic God" Vanguard for multiplayer. I mean, now that the idea's out there, it can't go back in the bag. This MUST be made or modded.
I was actually seriously pissed when I found out the Volus weren't going to be a playable race. I mean, we can get Quarian "oops suit ruptured good luck with that infection" so why not volus "suit ruptured hope you don't explode"?
I already have a combat suit design in mind. It's similar to the Krogan Geth armor from ME1. Basically: a more hardened Volus suit with tubes (ala Batman's Bane) providing a steady supply of red mist into the bloodstream.
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
I stand by my theory that the ending we see today in ME3 is almost entirely because of budgetary and/or schedule constraints. It feels more like a storyboard, a framework for what they wanted the ending to be, with filler to come later...except later never came, most likely because EA wanted ME3 released when it was released, and not six months later leading in to the Christmas season.
No one will ever come out and say that, and we can't prove it, but that's how the ending feels to me, in terms of the herky jerky nature of it, and how things just sort of pop up with little to no explanation.
Except the game was already delayed. How long can you keep delaying a game when you aren't Blizzard or Valve, and you have a $200 million investment into TOR that hasn't made its money back yet?
In an ideal world....as long as it takes. But this of course ISN'T an ideal world, so that's why we got the ending we did. I agree with Gnome, there are signs all over the place of this game being undercooked. Only through the awesomeness of Bioware were they able to salvage what they did in the time they had allotted (shown through most of the game). The ending is still mostly their fault though :P
I'll actually be happy with a clarifying dlc, the ending will still be bad, but as long as we end with more answers than questions (and the question's we're left with are more along the line of "what does X mean" and not "how does X make sense") I will be satisfied, and if they pull an ME2 and throw in some variation based on who/what we brought to bear at the end that would be fantastic. I'd actually want to do another playthrough
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OH! I thought you were comparing the ending of ME3 with some similar flaw in the ending of Eternal Sunshine.
This makes much more sense.
I'm in the Bad Opinion Brigade as well. It's awesome over here.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
I think we even have a clubhouse.
DS Friend code: 3840-6605-3406
However, I do have Geth Pulse Rifle V.
Also, how does one use the Talon? It's ridiculously inaccurate and doesnt seem to hit very hard either.
We should call ourselves B.O.B.
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
On that topic I think the game should have ended at that point that was so good, cut to credits and
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
I.. I liked the scanning in ME3.
(Reaper trolling FTW).
I enjoyed the scanning in this game.
Haha, I had forgotten about that.
You shouldn't build up indignation over things people on official forums and reddit say, otherwise using the internet is going to be a long difficult road
I stand by my theory that the ending we see today in ME3 is almost entirely because of budgetary and/or schedule constraints. It feels more like a storyboard, a framework for what they wanted the ending to be, with filler to come later...except later never came, most likely because EA wanted ME3 released when it was released, and not six months later leading in to the Christmas season.
No one will ever come out and say that, and we can't prove it, but that's how the ending feels to me, in terms of the herky jerky nature of it, and how things just sort of pop up with little to no explanation.
I actually missed all that, and didn't even know people had a problem with it until much, much later. Then I was like, "What? But that part was so cool!" (I really am secretly a member of the B.O.B.)
Yeah, but even up in someone's grill, it didnt seem to pack a lot of punch. I'd honestly rather have a real shotgun than that.
I'd play that game all day.
Of course, with some of the fun bugs I've seen recently (running around above Firebase Ghost, like 300 feet above Firebase Ghost)... shouldn't be that much of a stretch.
Wait, T-800 what? The thing in Salvation?
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
The screaming was drowned out by the all the perfection. Listen, I loved ME2 and the Suicide Mission so much that I spent the next four months replaying the game over and over and over. The ending in ME3 disgusted me so strongly that I still can't bring myself to start a new game, even as a Vanguard.
Read that last sentence again.
Assuming I'm not the only ME3 purchaser who feels this way, this is a serious problem for Bioware.
Yes! Since EDI has a body, I wonder how hard it would be for her to strap herself to the exterior of the Normandy to extend both middle fingers as we leave them in our ion trail.
Eh, I'm a veteran of this internet thing...been doing it since you needed Trumpet Winsock to connect to the intrawebs because Windows 3.1 didn't have a native TCP/IP stack. A meme wasn't even a thing yet (the definition existed, but it hadn't been put in to practice on the internet).
Doesn't change the fact that I think the vitriol over this ending took a left at the Stupid Town exit a while back.
Didn't most people hate the very concept & lack of logic of the ME2 endboss at the time?
Except the game was already delayed. How long can you keep delaying a game when you aren't Blizzard or Valve, and you have a $200 million investment into TOR that hasn't made its money back yet?
Badassfully: I do not. Were people upset you fought the terminator at the end of ME2? Because I thought the final boss fight of ME2 was pretty fucking epic.
Badassfully:
Badassfully: It almost makes me suspicious that we didn't get a big boss fight, even a lot of the DLC in ME2 had those (Kasumi against the South African super-villain in his gunship, the Yagh in Shadow Broker)... but there is none to be had to end ME3. Interesting indeed.
This right here. I am with you. If not for MP, i would not be playing this anymore.
The last boss of ME2.
I think that and the things we've found out about the lack of peer review on the ending.
I mean, between these things, what else could it be? You have the whole ending sequence in ME as a standard (to me, anyway) of one of the best leadups and endings in gaming history; and while I didn't think ME2's was quite as powerful (for story reasons, mainly, execution wise it was just as excellent), it is still up there in the echelons of amazing quality ending sequences and then....me3. It's been compared before but it's like the boss fights in DX:HR, where its so jarring that for some people, it did ruin the game. People literally stopped playing DX:HR after the first boss, despite the rest of the entire game being so good. It feels like that all over. It feels like it was tossed to a different team, not really checked for thematic consistancy and tossed in to ship. Then whoops
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Oh, yeah that makes more sense.
Still, aside from the herpderp 3 eyes thing, I never understood the complaints about that one. I thought it made sense.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Well I'll just have to disagree, there's certainly a shit ton general dissatisfaction, but most of the vitriol I think is an escalation of the generally vitriolic reaction to gamers that the gaming press has had.
For gamers specifically going overboard in the vitriol department at the ending (and not as a response to say, jim sterling trolling them), that's mostly been confined to cesspits and official forums anyway
I very much agree about the ending structure. Obviously they had something else in mind for the London showdown, something closer to the Suicide Mission, but dropped it late in the process. As for why they dropped it, well, assuming that the "final days" stuff is true, it's because a couple of senior people in the development team wanted an ending full of questions and nobody was able to talk them out of it.
Given BioWare's track record? I'd think you could delay it long enough to flesh out the story board ending. This isn't Some Random Developer 101, it's BioWare. I think they've earned the Blizzard/Valve treatment of getting the time they need to complete a game, within reason.
The 200m dollar investment may have had a lot to do with it, though that game seems to be doing pretty alright for itself.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
And that is what I like about these games. Very different opinions on things.
ME2 spoiler edit in case not beyond statute of spoiler limitations.
It's such a shame if it had ended at that part a few minutes before the end, with some minor changes and an epilogue after the fact, it would have left me with a feeling of catharsis and not frustration
Fixed your post.
I already have a combat suit design in mind. It's similar to the Krogan Geth armor from ME1. Basically: a more hardened Volus suit with tubes (ala Batman's Bane) providing a steady supply of red mist into the bloodstream.
Origin: Viycktor
In an ideal world....as long as it takes. But this of course ISN'T an ideal world, so that's why we got the ending we did. I agree with Gnome, there are signs all over the place of this game being undercooked. Only through the awesomeness of Bioware were they able to salvage what they did in the time they had allotted (shown through most of the game). The ending is still mostly their fault though :P
I'll actually be happy with a clarifying dlc, the ending will still be bad, but as long as we end with more answers than questions (and the question's we're left with are more along the line of "what does X mean" and not "how does X make sense") I will be satisfied, and if they pull an ME2 and throw in some variation based on who/what we brought to bear at the end that would be fantastic. I'd actually want to do another playthrough