Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Bad Books: Fit Only to Kindle Fire

1141516171820»

Posts

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    I cannot believe this thread, someone bashed on fucking Reading Rainbow and others on Tolkien? This thread is only fit for fire.

    Sacred cows make sacred hamburgers.

    Sacrilicious!

  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Can someone explain to me why Heinlein is considered a master of classic sci-fi?

    I mean, honestly, can someone break it down for me? Did he come up with something that hadn't been done before that I'm not aware of? Was there a 'creepy incest is a good thing' memo that I missed? I enjoyed reading some of his earlier books when I was young and stupid and hadn't been exposed to enough of the world to realize that Heinlein's ideas aren't very interesting. Perhaps they were interesting when they were new? But the other classic sci-fi masters mostly hold up pretty well, and none of Heinlein's shit smells like anything besides what it is, to me. His prose isn't anything special, his plotting is weak when it isn't non-existent, and everything that happens in every one of his books appears to be just a vehicle to push his (frequently bizarre) moral, political, and social agendas.

    Even his early works that are supposed to be the good part of the greater Heinlein corpus aren't particularly special. What did Stranger in a Strange Land really do for the genre besides giving us the word grok? And why do people always seem to leave out the large portion of the book where the protagonist is being Hippy Jesus and eating his friends in soup when discussing it?

    Because he wrote it first. There have been a lot of space hippy jesus stories, but Heinlein wrote it first. There have been a lot of millitary sci fi written but Starship Troopers came out first. He broke a lot of boundaries for what SciFi could and could not be. Most Scifi writers have been influence by him then by any other writer.

    Even the creepy incest was a first unique spin when first published. Namely the reason that we find it creepy is because we have been conditioned to think it is so we don't start inbreeding. If you take breeding out of it(or remove the genetic defect part), what is left?

    Its not like Asimov or Clarke where great writers when it came to characters.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    Can someone explain to me why Heinlein is considered a master of classic sci-fi?

    I mean, honestly, can someone break it down for me? Did he come up with something that hadn't been done before that I'm not aware of? Was there a 'creepy incest is a good thing' memo that I missed? I enjoyed reading some of his earlier books when I was young and stupid and hadn't been exposed to enough of the world to realize that Heinlein's ideas aren't very interesting. Perhaps they were interesting when they were new? But the other classic sci-fi masters mostly hold up pretty well, and none of Heinlein's shit smells like anything besides what it is, to me. His prose isn't anything special, his plotting is weak when it isn't non-existent, and everything that happens in every one of his books appears to be just a vehicle to push his (frequently bizarre) moral, political, and social agendas.

    Even his early works that are supposed to be the good part of the greater Heinlein corpus aren't particularly special. What did Stranger in a Strange Land really do for the genre besides giving us the word grok? And why do people always seem to leave out the large portion of the book where the protagonist is being Hippy Jesus and eating his friends in soup when discussing it?

    He was a master of sci-fi up until about 3/4 (maybe a little more) though writing Stranger in a Strange Land. Then he turned to shit and never looked back.

    Starship Troopers is a damn good book. As is Have Spacesuit Will Travel. As is Red Planet.

  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    He was very good with the Sci-Fi part, had some very cool and interesting ideas, had some interesting characters, invented a fuckton of cool Sci-Fi tropes, made a long, loosely connected history of the future. Also, the Diktor short story is one of the best ever. His prose is decent and readable, and his snarky style is fun to me. He was also very influential on several generations of sci-fi authors, and that alone makes him a "master" regardless of a single person's opinion on him. (Master as in a "teacher, example" sense, not someone who is perfect in his craft).

    I agree he had some wrong ideas, and questionable morals, but he also tried to make people think a bit, even if the result was disagreeing with his ideas.

    He's not just a best-selling crappy author like Stephanie Myer or Dan Brown. He was important in the making of the genre, influenced many writers and is still remembered.

    I personally think he's a billion times better than Clarke, who had some amazing ideas but not much else. Of course, even though I generally dislike Clarke, I'd never question his place in the genre's pantheon. He is also a master, and another very influential sci-fi writer.

    But the original master of modern Sci-fi will always be E. E. Doc Smith. Even with all his flaws. :)

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
    camo_sig2.png
Sign In or Register to comment.