Hasn't really been said why the seasons are like that. Only thing we know for sure is that the seasons are only like that in the Seven Kingdoms (I think). The rest of the world has normal seasons.
Hmm, interesting. Thanks for answering.
It's one of the super intriguing things to me. The wikis say that it's been happening forever in Westeros, too. All the way back when they were still Children of the Forest around.
Hasn't really been said why the seasons are like that. Only thing we know for sure is that the seasons are only like that in the Seven Kingdoms (I think). The rest of the world has normal seasons.
The East seems far warmer in general. Either there is yet to be mentioned magic happening on a planetary scale, or Martin wasn't too concerned about how seasons and ambient temperatures actually work with respect to the sun's relative alignment.
Seriously though, Mad King, this thread is lousy with untagged spoilage. Get out before you regret it.
There's a few possible explanations, like side effects from the doom of valyria launching tons of shit into the atmosphere, or underwater volcanoes changing the warm-water currents every few years, causing cold snaps until it returns to normal, or just some type of complicated weather system... But the real explanation: magic.
Basically it's just another way of raising the stakes and making Westeros a shittier place to live
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I didn't realize it was only in Westeros, I thought there was some reference to Vaes Dothrak getting colder, too. Maybe not.
I thought I remembered a reference to it, but I'm not sure. They certainly don't seem overly concerned with provisioning for Winter, but maybe all the POV regions are just in the lower latitudes; like Dorne. Dorne doesn't seem to give a shit either.
[e]
Checked the maps in DwD. Braavos is on line with the riverlands, which looks to be the northmost point in Essos. Pentos is around King's Landing, and all the stuff on the southern coast is south of Dorne.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I'm fairly certain there was a GRRM quote from a previous book thread where he stated the extended seasons only affected Westeros. The rest of the world suffers from normal (Earthlike) seasonal changes. Which would be funny traveling from the Wall in wintertime, laterally to Pentos, and arrive in spring or summer.
Probably the Others.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I think it is a pretty damning indictment of just how shitty Essos is that people willingly left to live on a continent that endures winters that can last decades...
Black lives matter.
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Seriously though, Mad King, this thread is lousy with untagged spoilage. Get out before you regret it.
I honestly don't mind.
I tuned out of the books somewhere toward the middle of number 3 when it became endless days of Arya trekking, eating, pottying and hearing the word "Hot Pie!" screamed ad nauseum.
Hell no, Essos is nicer than Westeros in a ton of ways. Especially the trade cities seem pretty obviously to be far more cosmopolitan and well off than anywhere in Westeros except for maybe King's Landing.
Sure you might be a slave in Essos, but being a peasant in Westeros is hardly any better, especially if you've got an asshole for a lord.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Yeah, but if the seasons aren't global, then it really begs the question as to why Nymeria and the Andals seemed to prefer decades long winters to whatever they're serving over in Essos.
Thinking about it some more, was it not mentioned that the Children of the Forest helped the first humans survive the winters? I guess making sure the refugees from a civilization that can forge weapons that can slay Others would be handy to keep around.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Seriously though, Mad King, this thread is lousy with untagged spoilage. Get out before you regret it.
I honestly don't mind.
I tuned out of the books somewhere toward the middle of number 3 when it became endless days of Arya trekking, eating, pottying and hearing the word "Hot Pie!" screamed ad nauseum.
"I didn't finish Book 3" might be the best reason you could have to want to avoid spoilers.
It is also a pretty good reason to finish book 3, but to each his own.
Seriously though, Mad King, this thread is lousy with untagged spoilage. Get out before you regret it.
I honestly don't mind.
I tuned out of the books somewhere toward the middle of number 3 when it became endless days of Arya trekking, eating, pottying and hearing the word "Hot Pie!" screamed ad nauseum.
"I didn't finish Book 3" might be the best reason you could have to want to avoid spoilers.
It is also a pretty good reason to finish book 3, but to each his own.
This is the biggest lawl ever. ASoS is obviously the best book!
On the seasons issue: the multi-year seasons aren't simply limited to Westeros. It's everywhere in the world. And all of the evidence we have so far is that it is tied up with the war of the dawn -- which, according to Melisandre and various other Red Priests, is between Azhor Ahai Reborn and the forces of the 'other.' Almost certainly the Others.
I imagine that the seasons will be resolved at the end of the series.
What? I haven't seen any evidence in the series that the other countries have Westeros' bizarre climate, I thought they had their own bizarre climates but not a mirror of Westeros
I need a refresher/crash course on what the Ironborn bros are up to from the last book. Those chapters didn't interest me that much so I don't think I paid close enough attention to recognize any one of them as a "badass".
The Wiki has pretty good summaries of their situations.
What? I haven't seen any evidence in the series that the other countries have Westeros' bizarre climate, I thought they had their own bizarre climates but not a mirror of Westeros
All of the Free Cities have a climate that is equivalent to Westeros, depending at which latitude they happen to be. Old Volantis is basically in the tropics and at the same latitude to Dorne, which is a desert and definitely experiences 'winter' differently than the North. Braavos, of course, is somewhere between the Vale and the North and so experiences winter like, say, White Harbour.
The point, though, isn't that everywhere has the same climate all the time. That clearly isn't the case, because there is a diversity of geography. The point is that the whole world experiences seasons that last many years, and are unpredictable.
We've seen autumn already in Braavos via two separate POV characters, and the same with Old Volantis and Dorne, and so on. We know that these places experiences seasons like Westeros *even if* the exact weather differs. It snows like a mofo in Winterfell, but it just rains with loads of fog in Braavos, etc.
It's unlikely that there will be some heavy handed exposition about the nature of the seasons until we get to see some POVs from inside the Citadel, which may or may not come in book 6.
His cheeks grew fuller, his eyes closer; his nose hooked, a scar appeared on his right cheek where no scar had been before. And when he shook his head, his long straight hair, half red and half white, dissolved away to reveal a cap of tight black curls.
A young man’s face, ordinary, with full cheeks and the shadow of a beard. A scar showed faintly on his right cheek. He had a hooked nose, and a mat of dense black hair that curled tightly around his ears.
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Tiger BurningDig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tuberegular
His cheeks grew fuller, his eyes closer; his nose hooked, a scar appeared on his right cheek where no scar had been before. And when he shook his head, his long straight hair, half red and half white, dissolved away to reveal a cap of tight black curls.
A young man’s face, ordinary, with full cheeks and the shadow of a beard. A scar showed faintly on his right cheek. He had a hooked nose, and a mat of dense black hair that curled tightly around his ears.
Interesting! I totally missed that.
That would indicate that the Temple of the Many-Named God has an agenda outside of what Arya has been repeatedly told. I was taking all their "all we do is answer prayers" spiel at face value.
Their prayers bit is just their way of making contracts more anonymous, IMHO. The people "praying" still make offerings, which pretty much are payment. What are you willing to bet that the ones that make larger offerings get more consideration? I can only imagine what the offering was for Dany.
Yeah, it does make one wonder what possible contract would take a Faceless One in such a round about way to the Citadel, I don't even know how a person like that would even be in prison unless they allowed themselves to be there, what would ever stop him from taking the face of a guard and just walking out? And a Faceless One not knowing how to pull some Mission: Impossible stuff by just melting into shadow? They are pretty much the ninjas of this setting.
Or how about a Faceless Man getting sent to the Wall to kill Mance Rayder, and then getting sidetracked when Arya saves his life in an unexpected circumstance? He now has no route to the wall (since Yoren was killed) without being suspicious, so he heads to Oldtown to book passage on a smuggling ship north of the wall. He notices a brother of the night's watch while he's there, and decides to use him as cover to head back to the Wall with? Pure conjecture, but it sounds like it can work maybe. I didn't pay super amounts of attention in book five, so not sure if any of that makes sense.
His cheeks grew fuller, his eyes closer; his nose hooked, a scar appeared on his right cheek where no scar had been before. And when he shook his head, his long straight hair, half red and half white, dissolved away to reveal a cap of tight black curls.
A young man’s face, ordinary, with full cheeks and the shadow of a beard. A scar showed faintly on his right cheek. He had a hooked nose, and a mat of dense black hair that curled tightly around his ears.
Interesting! I totally missed that.
That would indicate that the Temple of the Many-Named God has an agenda outside of what Arya has been repeatedly told. I was taking all their "all we do is answer prayers" spiel at face value.
edit: terrible, terrible pun.
Absolutely.
Either the temple has an agenda, or there are plenty of former acolytes out there operating in their name. Recall that, early on, the Faceless Men are mentioned as assassins for hire. That alone does not jive with the line they feed Arya. Now consider Jaquen giving the gift to Arya's foes as a personal favor; that doesn't sound like the kind of shit the official temple doctrine would approve of.
I think it's just bullshit they tell the recruits. Teaching them to kill selectively and without judgement being the primary goal. Once they graduate, if they have to kill a maester's acolyte to infiltrate the Citadel for some other purpose, I doubt the temple authority really gives a shit.
It only now occurs to me that the Many Faced God is an excellent candidate for The Other.
No name, at least not one that is spoken.
Caused the Doom of Valyria, which seems like something an enemy of Rhlor might do.
Is said to be the true power of death behind all other gods.
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
Damn, that's one tall woman they cast.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
I have to skip reading a lot of stuff in this thread since I'm in the middle of book 3.
His cheeks grew fuller, his eyes closer; his nose hooked, a scar appeared on his right cheek where no scar had been before. And when he shook his head, his long straight hair, half red and half white, dissolved away to reveal a cap of tight black curls.
A young man’s face, ordinary, with full cheeks and the shadow of a beard. A scar showed faintly on his right cheek. He had a hooked nose, and a mat of dense black hair that curled tightly around his ears.
Interesting! I totally missed that.
That would indicate that the Temple of the Many-Named God has an agenda outside of what Arya has been repeatedly told. I was taking all their "all we do is answer prayers" spiel at face value.
edit: terrible, terrible pun.
Absolutely.
Either the temple has an agenda, or there are plenty of former acolytes out there operating in their name. Recall that, early on, the Faceless Men are mentioned as assassins for hire. That alone does not jive with the line they feed Arya. Now consider Jaquen giving the gift to Arya's foes as a personal favor; that doesn't sound like the kind of shit the official temple doctrine would approve of.
I think it's just bullshit they tell the recruits. Teaching them to kill selectively and without judgement being the primary goal. Once they graduate, if they have to kill a maester's acolyte to infiltrate the Citadel for some other purpose, I doubt the temple authority really gives a shit.
It only now occurs to me that the Many Faced God is an excellent candidate for The Other.
No name, at least not one that is spoken.
Caused the Doom of Valyria, which seems like something an enemy of Rhlor might do.
Is said to be the true power of death behind all other gods.
I was wondering that myself. The drowned god is supposed to be a "demon" servant of the Other with no name. I kinda hope it's not the big bad though because that means Arya is on team bad guy, not team badass assassins.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
I'd be surprised if Rhollor was 'good'. Same for the Many-Faced God, or any of the powerful supernatural entities, honestly.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Book 3 is definitely the best book, and not just because of the Red Wedding. Heck, I think GRRM wussed out a bit and foreshadowed the Red Wedding way too much. He did the same thing with Bran and Rickon... just made it way too bovious what he was doing. Which is not a terrible thing, I actually kinda get annoyed when authors throw out random huge surprises without any foreshadowing or hints. But the red wedding I saw coming a hundred miles away and I kinda wish I had been even more shocked and disgusted than I was.
Anyway, take out TRW and Book 3 is still the best book. So much happens, hardly any slow points. Books 2, 4, and 5 are almost nothing but slow points.
I think I am in the minority on this, but I absolutely loved the Cersei POVs in 4 and 5. She's such a fucked up sociopath, and Martin draws her really well. They were just really fun reads to me, the subtext is fantastic.
Like when she starts drinking too much, getting fat, and acting like sexually abusive Robert to her lady friend just because she can.
My favorite moment was at Tywin's funeral. She did something and I remember thinking "Oh, she really IS just a good mom who loves her kids." It caused me to rethink my whole perception of her.
and then a few paragraphs later Martin is all "Lol, nope."
I think we were supposed to know that something was up with the Red Wedding but not to the extent of what happened.
Also, I just want to say that I love this thread. These books are so damn dense that I missed so much going through them. I love reading about some of the things you guys pick up. Is there some place I can go read about some of the more subtle things that are easily missed in the book? I'm thinking along the llines of the Jaqen stuff being discussed above. Also, bravo to whoever realized that what was going on at the end of ADWD was totally the fulfilment of Miri Maz Dur's prophecy.
There's a few possible explanations, like side effects from the doom of valyria launching tons of shit into the atmosphere, or underwater volcanoes changing the warm-water currents every few years, causing cold snaps until it returns to normal, or just some type of complicated weather system... But the real explanation: magic.
My theory is that the books are really sci-fi and its a result of a malfunctioning terraformer or something. Remember that the dragons "hatched from a moon" according to Doreah. Echoes of a spaceship? Also the Children of the forest seem more like aliens (specifically the aliens from Avatar) than elves.
I cant wait for the Red Wedding to be played out in the show, one of my favorite scenes from all of the books.
Recently my friend and I have been heavily discussing the whole Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Snow/Daenerys theories which i find pretty interesting.
Another theory we've been discussing is the end of Book 5 (ADWD) involving Jon Snow and how it might reflect the prologue (Sixskins taking another form) and if it will happen to Jon as well.
Also, I just want to say that I love this thread. These books are so damn dense that I missed so much going through them. I love reading about some of the things you guys pick up. Is there some place I can go read about some of the more subtle things that are easily missed in the book? I'm thinking along the llines of the Jaqen stuff being discussed above. Also, bravo to whoever realized that what was going on at the end of ADWD was totally the fulfilment of Miri Maz Dur's prophecy.
I agree completely, I raced through these books just knowing I HAD to talk about it online with people because there's so much going on.
The wiki was just posted above and new to me, I go to Tower of the Hand as well, its nice as you can input where you are in the books and it won't spoil anything (site content only, the comments obviously still spoil shit if you read them)
My theory on Arya and the Temple of the Many-Faced God:
They have some arrangement worked out with the Iron Bank of Braavos, and are grooming Arya to take out the Lannisters (who are not paying their debts). Somewhere along the way a truly absurd donation is going to find its way into the Temple's coffers after Stannis (who actually pays his debts) becomes king.
The actual supernatural agency of TMFG, I don't know about that agenda. But the earthly agents, it seems pretty clear to me.
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Hmm, interesting. Thanks for answering.
It's one of the super intriguing things to me. The wikis say that it's been happening forever in Westeros, too. All the way back when they were still Children of the Forest around.
Seriously though, Mad King, this thread is lousy with untagged spoilage. Get out before you regret it.
Basically it's just another way of raising the stakes and making Westeros a shittier place to live
I thought I remembered a reference to it, but I'm not sure. They certainly don't seem overly concerned with provisioning for Winter, but maybe all the POV regions are just in the lower latitudes; like Dorne. Dorne doesn't seem to give a shit either.
[e]
Checked the maps in DwD. Braavos is on line with the riverlands, which looks to be the northmost point in Essos. Pentos is around King's Landing, and all the stuff on the southern coast is south of Dorne.
Probably the Others.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
He mentions Autumnal storms being particularily dangerous in the Narrow Sea, but that could still be because it borders Westeros.
I honestly don't mind.
I tuned out of the books somewhere toward the middle of number 3 when it became endless days of Arya trekking, eating, pottying and hearing the word "Hot Pie!" screamed ad nauseum.
Sure you might be a slave in Essos, but being a peasant in Westeros is hardly any better, especially if you've got an asshole for a lord.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
"I didn't finish Book 3" might be the best reason you could have to want to avoid spoilers.
It is also a pretty good reason to finish book 3, but to each his own.
This is the biggest lawl ever. ASoS is obviously the best book!
On the seasons issue: the multi-year seasons aren't simply limited to Westeros. It's everywhere in the world. And all of the evidence we have so far is that it is tied up with the war of the dawn -- which, according to Melisandre and various other Red Priests, is between Azhor Ahai Reborn and the forces of the 'other.' Almost certainly the Others.
I imagine that the seasons will be resolved at the end of the series.
The Wiki has pretty good summaries of their situations.
All of the Free Cities have a climate that is equivalent to Westeros, depending at which latitude they happen to be. Old Volantis is basically in the tropics and at the same latitude to Dorne, which is a desert and definitely experiences 'winter' differently than the North. Braavos, of course, is somewhere between the Vale and the North and so experiences winter like, say, White Harbour.
The point, though, isn't that everywhere has the same climate all the time. That clearly isn't the case, because there is a diversity of geography. The point is that the whole world experiences seasons that last many years, and are unpredictable.
We've seen autumn already in Braavos via two separate POV characters, and the same with Old Volantis and Dorne, and so on. We know that these places experiences seasons like Westeros *even if* the exact weather differs. It snows like a mofo in Winterfell, but it just rains with loads of fog in Braavos, etc.
It's unlikely that there will be some heavy handed exposition about the nature of the seasons until we get to see some POVs from inside the Citadel, which may or may not come in book 6.
Did a Faceless man, or some other manner of sorcery, take his place? Or did it happen after Sam arrived?
Yes.
The description Arya gives in ACoK after Jaqen changes his face matches the one Pate gives of the alchemist:
Interesting! I totally missed that.
edit: terrible, terrible pun.
Yeah, it does make one wonder what possible contract would take a Faceless One in such a round about way to the Citadel, I don't even know how a person like that would even be in prison unless they allowed themselves to be there, what would ever stop him from taking the face of a guard and just walking out? And a Faceless One not knowing how to pull some Mission: Impossible stuff by just melting into shadow? They are pretty much the ninjas of this setting.
I think it's just bullshit they tell the recruits. Teaching them to kill selectively and without judgement being the primary goal. Once they graduate, if they have to kill a maester's acolyte to infiltrate the Citadel for some other purpose, I doubt the temple authority really gives a shit.
It only now occurs to me that the Many Faced God is an excellent candidate for The Other.
No name, at least not one that is spoken.
Caused the Doom of Valyria, which seems like something an enemy of Rhlor might do.
Is said to be the true power of death behind all other gods.
Anyway, last night I got to the Red Wedding.
Goddamn!
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I was wondering that myself. The drowned god is supposed to be a "demon" servant of the Other with no name. I kinda hope it's not the big bad though because that means Arya is on team bad guy, not team badass assassins.
Anyway, take out TRW and Book 3 is still the best book. So much happens, hardly any slow points. Books 2, 4, and 5 are almost nothing but slow points.
My favorite moment was at Tywin's funeral. She did something and I remember thinking "Oh, she really IS just a good mom who loves her kids." It caused me to rethink my whole perception of her.
and then a few paragraphs later Martin is all "Lol, nope."
She is the worst person.
Also, I just want to say that I love this thread. These books are so damn dense that I missed so much going through them. I love reading about some of the things you guys pick up. Is there some place I can go read about some of the more subtle things that are easily missed in the book? I'm thinking along the llines of the Jaqen stuff being discussed above. Also, bravo to whoever realized that what was going on at the end of ADWD was totally the fulfilment of Miri Maz Dur's prophecy.
My theory is that the books are really sci-fi and its a result of a malfunctioning terraformer or something. Remember that the dragons "hatched from a moon" according to Doreah. Echoes of a spaceship? Also the Children of the forest seem more like aliens (specifically the aliens from Avatar) than elves.
Wait whaaaa?
Recently my friend and I have been heavily discussing the whole Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Snow/Daenerys theories which i find pretty interesting.
Another theory we've been discussing is the end of Book 5 (ADWD) involving Jon Snow and how it might reflect the prologue (Sixskins taking another form) and if it will happen to Jon as well.
I agree completely, I raced through these books just knowing I HAD to talk about it online with people because there's so much going on.
The wiki was just posted above and new to me, I go to Tower of the Hand as well, its nice as you can input where you are in the books and it won't spoil anything (site content only, the comments obviously still spoil shit if you read them)
The actual supernatural agency of TMFG, I don't know about that agenda. But the earthly agents, it seems pretty clear to me.