Also, bravo to whoever realized that what was going on at the end of ADWD was totally the fulfilment of Miri Maz Dur's prophecy.
Very yes. I read that in the last thread and had to immediately reread that chapter at work. Excellent find.
Wait whaaaa?
Read it again!
That girl is
preggers. Or was, or the baby is in trouble. Not 100% on that one. Quentin was the Sun who rose in west and set in the East, everything else is in Danny's last chapter.
Also, bravo to whoever realized that what was going on at the end of ADWD was totally the fulfilment of Miri Maz Dur's prophecy.
Very yes. I read that in the last thread and had to immediately reread that chapter at work. Excellent find.
Wait whaaaa?
Read it again!
That girl is
preggers. Or was, or the baby is in trouble. Not 100% on that one. Quentin was the Sun who rose in west and set in the East, everything else is in Danny's last chapter.
While I don't have a problem with the analysis, I really don't like the implication.
So, what now, zombie Drogo? That would be incredibly awful.
preggers. Quentin was the Sun who rose in west and set in the East, everything else is in Danny's last chapter.
I haven't got my book on me! If it's not too much trouble would you mind elaborating on it?
I'd appreciate it!
'When the sun rises in the east and sets in the west"
Quentin is a Dornish prince, their sigil is the sun. He rose in Dorne, travelled east, and 'set' horribly.
"When the sea goes dry"
She's in a section of the Dothraki sea, and it is quite dry and withered.
"When the mountains blow on the wind like leaves"
She hears the wind whipping through the mountains and likens it to the rustling of leaves
"When your womb quickens and you bear a living child"
Dany is pregnant. She hasn't had her period in months. Two things happen here: she's nauseous after eating the berries, and she starts bleeding. She either had morning sickness, or the berries were poisonous; and she either hurt the child from the berries, or it's in distress from her starvation and dehydration. Whether or not she is having a miscarriage, it shows her womb is fertile again.
The part of the prophesy remains unfulfilled, and requires she have a live birth, then she will see Drogo again. This could mean many things, but I think it means she will die in child birth. But having a baby is the easy part, all the "impossible" things Mirri said have happened.
Book 3 is definitely the best book, and not just because of the Red Wedding. Heck, I think GRRM wussed out a bit and foreshadowed the Red Wedding way too much. He did the same thing with Bran and Rickon... just made it way too bovious what he was doing. Which is not a terrible thing, I actually kinda get annoyed when authors throw out random huge surprises without any foreshadowing or hints. But the red wedding I saw coming a hundred miles away and I kinda wish I had been even more shocked and disgusted than I was.
Anyway, take out TRW and Book 3 is still the best book. So much happens, hardly any slow points. Books 2, 4, and 5 are almost nothing but slow points.
Book 3 is phenomenal. By FAR the best book.
If you count 4 and 5 together as one shitty book, it looks like the even books are setup/filler and the odd books are good. :P
That said, I'm going through 5 again skipping all the shitty parts.
Jon and Theon's chapters are awesome--the Theon chapters are some of the best writing GRRM's done in this series. Dany's suck. Bran's were fun on a first readthrough but are pointless now. Really I'm cool with just reading Jon and Theon for now.
Book 5 was a huge disappointment to me. Halfway through it seemed as if Martin had all these threads he was ready to resolve, and by the end he resolved none of them satisfactorily. There are actually a bunch of cool one-offs or smaller POVs in book 5: Griff, Melisandre, Asha, Varamyr, Kevan, Barristan, Quentyn, Arya. Cersei wasn't bad. I think Tyrion and Dany sucking really dragged the book down, since they're main characters. Plus most of those cool one-offs end up being pointless or too short. Hrmm. Maybe the book deserves a full readthrough.
valiance on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Everyone in Dorne is more awesome because it's a desolate hell hole and they need to make the best of it. Love the dude (Arto?) who sleeps with his axe-wife.
I am hopeful that all the setup that made 4 & 5 such a grind for GRRM to write and his fans to read results in a book 6 that approaches or even exceeds the highpoint book 3 set.
Black lives matter.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
I guess I'll take a break from the series once I get done with book 3 since they're apparently a bit of a grind. Take a month or two off.
I like the less action chapters / PoVs myself, it fleshes out the world IMHO. Its surprises me that anyone found Arya's parts boring, that was some of the most riveting stuff for me. Doesn't mean I minded how the HBO show recently showed Arya's story with changes, a lot of how a world is fleshed out there is "a thousand words in a picture" stuff - I appreciate the thousand words as well as the moving pictures and I have to wonder if the moving pictures would be as good as they were without the thousand words
Yeah, I watched S1 then tore through all 5. They were good. 5 is fucking great apart from Dany getting hamstrung by her own idealism. However, if you waited 5 years for Crows waiting to read about certain characters, and they weren't even in it, I imagine it might sour you a bit than did my experience.
I didn't wait five years. I started GoT several months ago and read straight through, finishing Book 4 just as Book 5 came out.
And Books 1 and 3 were the only ones that seemed intentional. 2, 4, and 5, despite having several good points and never being terrible, nevertheless felt like mostly filler. Book 2 is a bunch of people trying to get from point A to point B. Book 4 is just everyone talking about what happened in Book 3, or trying to figure out everything that happened in Book 3. Book 5 seems to just very slowly move some pieces into place, but without a lot happening. I get the sense that this still is the trilogy GRRM intended. Book 1, 3, and 6/7 are the trilogy. Books 2, 4, and 5 were for the dollah dollahs.
I've been reading the series since I was 11 (ca. 2001, I'm 21 now) and even I wasn't that upset with books 4 and 5.
Sure, they left a lot of cliff hangers and questions unanswered but I still really enjoyed them and I didn't feel gypped or anything like that. I think they're all exceptional in their own ways.
0
SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
Well, to be honest I'd have to wait anyway since I check the books out from the library. I do kind of want to take a break just to read some other things, plus we have Diablo III coming out next month.
Actually, I don't think that GRRM actually gives much of a crap about the moneys, at least with regards to ASoIaF. He just has trouble linking up his narratives because he enjoys tangents and plausible internal consistancy.
If he cared about the money so much, he wouldn't have spent so many years beating the Meereenese Knot to death, he would have just written "Then Dany decided she had enough troops, and was so sick to death of these slaver fucks that she moved to invade Westeros finally" at the beginning of book 4.
Listen, you gotta remember that there's a cycle to SoIaF fandom.
Complain about GRRM daring to watch football when he hasn't finished the next book
Mention how fat he's looking and that he's gonna die any day now, so would he kindly hurry it up?
Claim that GRRM is only in it for the money and that he's only not writing 1000 pages a year because he hates the fans
Speedread the newest book in an evening, then complain that it wasn't enough
Argue that GRRM needs an editor
Argue that GRRM spends too much time editing his books and he needs to publish them faster
Complain that HBO got the casting for a minor character ALL WRONG, series ruined forever
Spoil the Red Wedding for new readers
And repeat
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Is there any sort of indicator as to when the next book is coming out? I haven't paid attention to that at all.
Nope.
It's done when it's done.
And 4 and 5 didn't really bother me. I enjoyed them for what they were, although they were no ASoS, and the wait was far too long.
Really, the main reason ADWD didn't bother me as much is because I've moved on to bigger and better things. Martin's taking his time, and when it comes to my attention span and ravenous appetite, it just ended up being too long. But instead of sitting around and complaining, I found something else to whet my desire for fantasy, and furthermore found that I preferred it.
Is there any sort of indicator as to when the next book is coming out? I haven't paid attention to that at all.
Nope.
It's done when it's done.
And 4 and 5 didn't really bother me. I enjoyed them for what they were, although they were no ASoS, and the wait was far too long.
Really, the main reason ADWD didn't bother me as much is because I've moved on to bigger and better things. Martin's taking his time, and when it comes to my attention span and ravenous appetite, it just ended up being too long. But instead of sitting around and complaining, I found something else to whet my desire for fantasy, and furthermore found that I preferred it.
For fantasy in particular, Malazan did it for me. I was like a coke addict for those novels. There's a thread for that series floating around on this board somewhere, too. I recognize it's not for everyone, though, and the first novel is kinda....rough. Good story, but he still wasn't that great an author at the time.
I also purposely branched out to other genres, though - classics like The Count of Monte Cristo, etc.
Also, bravo to whoever realized that what was going on at the end of ADWD was totally the fulfilment of Miri Maz Dur's prophecy.
Very yes. I read that in the last thread and had to immediately reread that chapter at work. Excellent find.
Wait whaaaa?
Read it again!
That girl is
preggers. Or was, or the baby is in trouble. Not 100% on that one. Quentin was the Sun who rose in west and set in the East, everything else is in Danny's last chapter.
While I don't have a problem with the analysis, I really don't like the implication.
So, what now, zombie Drogo? That would be incredibly awful.
Nah, I don't think so.
If I remember right, the prophecy was that Drogo would snap out of his catatonic state and be back to his old raping and pillaging self again after all those criteria were met. Dany smothered him with a pillow instead of waiting for him to recover. I doubt he'll come back from the dead, unless it's one of those "be careful what you wish for" things and he gets assimilated into the white walkers or something, which is pretty far-fetched.
I always kinda took the Mirri Maz prophecy as more like
"When will you get Drogo back? Fuck you, that's when!"
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I don't think prophecies are likely to be literal as either of those things.
The prophecy for Drogo to return will probably be metaphorical, most likely involving Drogon, IHMO
Victarion will be Drogo's return, a sea-Khal riding wooden horses. He will break the siege and Dany will climb him like a mountian and get to making viking-dragon babies.
No, wait. That was my fanfic.
Seriously though
I think it just means she will die giving birth, and thus be reunited with Drogo. It seems a very Martin thing to do to us.
I think it just means she will die giving birth, and thus be reunited with Drogo. It seems a very Martin thing to do to us.
Except, the prophecy isn't that Drogo and Dany will be reunited, it's that he'll return, or be as he was. He hasn't really returned if Dany dies.
“When will he be as he was?” Dany demanded.
“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” said Mirri Maz Duur. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.”
I didn't wait five years. I started GoT several months ago and read straight through, finishing Book 4 just as Book 5 came out.
And Books 1 and 3 were the only ones that seemed intentional. 2, 4, and 5, despite having several good points and never being terrible, nevertheless felt like mostly filler. Book 2 is a bunch of people trying to get from point A to point B. Book 4 is just everyone talking about what happened in Book 3, or trying to figure out everything that happened in Book 3. Book 5 seems to just very slowly move some pieces into place, but without a lot happening. I get the sense that this still is the trilogy GRRM intended. Book 1, 3, and 6/7 are the trilogy. Books 2, 4, and 5 were for the dollah dollahs.
Man, so much happens in all of these books. What about 2 was filler? How many characters have to die before you consider a book exciting enough?
“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” said Mirri Maz Duur. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.”
Is it just me, or did they leave the "When your womb quickens again" part out of the show?
Cersei's totally dressing Lancel up like Jaime, bwahaha
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” said Mirri Maz Duur. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.”
Is it just me, or did they leave the "When your womb quickens again" part out of the show?
Sure did. Weird, that's the best part. It takes it from "Drogo is never coming back" to "Drogo is never coming back, and -SURPRISE- You're barren."
Posts
Read it again!
That girl is
I haven't got my book on me! If it's not too much trouble would you mind elaborating on it?
I'd appreciate it!
While I don't have a problem with the analysis, I really don't like the implication.
Quentin is a Dornish prince, their sigil is the sun. He rose in Dorne, travelled east, and 'set' horribly.
"When the sea goes dry"
She's in a section of the Dothraki sea, and it is quite dry and withered.
"When the mountains blow on the wind like leaves"
She hears the wind whipping through the mountains and likens it to the rustling of leaves
"When your womb quickens and you bear a living child"
Dany is pregnant. She hasn't had her period in months. Two things happen here: she's nauseous after eating the berries, and she starts bleeding. She either had morning sickness, or the berries were poisonous; and she either hurt the child from the berries, or it's in distress from her starvation and dehydration. Whether or not she is having a miscarriage, it shows her womb is fertile again.
The part of the prophesy remains unfulfilled, and requires she have a live birth, then she will see Drogo again. This could mean many things, but I think it means she will die in child birth. But having a baby is the easy part, all the "impossible" things Mirri said have happened.
[e]
Book 3 is phenomenal. By FAR the best book.
If you count 4 and 5 together as one shitty book, it looks like the even books are setup/filler and the odd books are good. :P
That said, I'm going through 5 again skipping all the shitty parts.
Book 5 was a huge disappointment to me. Halfway through it seemed as if Martin had all these threads he was ready to resolve, and by the end he resolved none of them satisfactorily. There are actually a bunch of cool one-offs or smaller POVs in book 5: Griff, Melisandre, Asha, Varamyr, Kevan, Barristan, Quentyn, Arya. Cersei wasn't bad. I think Tyrion and Dany sucking really dragged the book down, since they're main characters. Plus most of those cool one-offs end up being pointless or too short. Hrmm. Maybe the book deserves a full readthrough.
I didn't like how little of it there was.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
And Books 1 and 3 were the only ones that seemed intentional. 2, 4, and 5, despite having several good points and never being terrible, nevertheless felt like mostly filler. Book 2 is a bunch of people trying to get from point A to point B. Book 4 is just everyone talking about what happened in Book 3, or trying to figure out everything that happened in Book 3. Book 5 seems to just very slowly move some pieces into place, but without a lot happening. I get the sense that this still is the trilogy GRRM intended. Book 1, 3, and 6/7 are the trilogy. Books 2, 4, and 5 were for the dollah dollahs.
Sure, they left a lot of cliff hangers and questions unanswered but I still really enjoyed them and I didn't feel gypped or anything like that. I think they're all exceptional in their own ways.
Actually, I don't think that GRRM actually gives much of a crap about the moneys, at least with regards to ASoIaF. He just has trouble linking up his narratives because he enjoys tangents and plausible internal consistancy.
If he cared about the money so much, he wouldn't have spent so many years beating the Meereenese Knot to death, he would have just written "Then Dany decided she had enough troops, and was so sick to death of these slaver fucks that she moved to invade Westeros finally" at the beginning of book 4.
Complain about GRRM daring to watch football when he hasn't finished the next book
Mention how fat he's looking and that he's gonna die any day now, so would he kindly hurry it up?
Claim that GRRM is only in it for the money and that he's only not writing 1000 pages a year because he hates the fans
Speedread the newest book in an evening, then complain that it wasn't enough
Argue that GRRM needs an editor
Argue that GRRM spends too much time editing his books and he needs to publish them faster
Complain that HBO got the casting for a minor character ALL WRONG, series ruined forever
Spoil the Red Wedding for new readers
And repeat
Nope.
It's done when it's done.
And 4 and 5 didn't really bother me. I enjoyed them for what they were, although they were no ASoS, and the wait was far too long.
Really, the main reason ADWD didn't bother me as much is because I've moved on to bigger and better things. Martin's taking his time, and when it comes to my attention span and ravenous appetite, it just ended up being too long. But instead of sitting around and complaining, I found something else to whet my desire for fantasy, and furthermore found that I preferred it.
oh, like what?
Structurally, ADWD and AFFC are a mess. They don't really function well as individual books, even though the constituent elements are just fine.
I also purposely branched out to other genres, though - classics like The Count of Monte Cristo, etc.
Nah, I don't think so.
"When will you get Drogo back? Fuck you, that's when!"
No, wait. That was my fanfic.
Seriously though
Man, so much happens in all of these books. What about 2 was filler? How many characters have to die before you consider a book exciting enough?
Well then.
Is it just me, or did they leave the "When your womb quickens again" part out of the show?
Sure did. Weird, that's the best part. It takes it from "Drogo is never coming back" to "Drogo is never coming back, and -SURPRISE- You're barren."