Pokemon (Show me them again)

Tw4win

Pokemon.

Explain please.

I've missed the boat it seems. I've always thought that Pokemon on GBA/DS/Cube/Wii was more of a "kids" game but I think I may be wrong. What's the point of the games?

Would a guy who likes CRPGs, platformers, and Zelda-esque games like them? If so, where should I start?

Pata

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=7272

<.<;

To answer your question, I don't see why not.

I'd suggest either starting with Emerald or just waiting for the DS games to come out.

BTP

Prepare to soak up a lot of information with what you just asked. That being said, with whatever of your first main GB game you get, or perhaps DS since that's out sometime in April, find a strategy guide to go with it that details every single little thing. Especially what Pokemon learns what moves, and with a detailed description of what each move does.

bruin

They may seem like kids games (well, they are, I started playing them in fifth grade), but they're actually really solid and surprisingly deep RPGs. If you like Zelda and CRPGs you could definitely get into them.

I personally would wait for Diamond/Pearl to hit on April 22 if you have a DS and want to get into the series.

MiserableMirth

If you can find a copy of Fire Red or Leaf Green used or cheap somwhere then I would suggest picking it up. Those games are remakes of the originals with new and up to date game mechanics. That should give you an idea if you like it or not.

You could always try the originals, but I wouldn't recommend it. You can't trade those pokemon to the Advance or DS series.

Willeth

I can definitely second the Fire Red/Leaf Green recommendation. Everything that made the originals great combined with everything that makes the newer ones great, and by the time you've burned out on it you can pick up Diamond or Pearl and transfer all your shit over and just keep playing.

Zek

First and foremost, Pokemon is a JRPG series. If you don't like those sorts of games you won't like it.

Anyway, yes it's really quite good. The theme is super-kiddy, make no mistake about it, but if you can get over that it's a very solid RPG. Collecting and training cutesy monsters is a lot more fun than it sounds. You can try one of the older games if you want, or just wait for the DS versions which are sure to be ridiculous smash hits.

UncleSporky

Pokemon has never really been a kids' game. The cartoons and marketing, sure, but the games themselves are solid RPGs, reminiscent of early Final Fantasies IMO. The handheld games, anyway.

Tw4win

Willeth wrote: »

I can definitely second the Fire Red/Leaf Green recommendation. Everything that made the originals great combined with everything that makes the newer ones great, and by the time you've burned out on it you can pick up Diamond or Pearl and transfer all your shit over and just keep playing.

What's the difference between those two?

Pata

Tw4win wrote: »

Willeth wrote: »

I can definitely second the Fire Red/Leaf Green recommendation. Everything that made the originals great combined with everything that makes the newer ones great, and by the time you've burned out on it you can pick up Diamond or Pearl and transfer all your shit over and just keep playing.

What's the difference between those two?

Fire Red/Leaf Green difference? Or the difference between Fire Red/Leaf Green and Diamond/Pearl?

Lunker

UncleSporky wrote: »

Pokemon has never really been a kids' game. The cartoons and marketing, sure, but the games themselves are solid RPGs, reminiscent of early Final Fantasies IMO. The handheld games, anyway.

For serious! Read these in-depth FAQs and tell me this is a game for children.

Tw4win

Fire Red/Leaf Green Difference. Also, how do those compare to Emerald? I'm thinking about picking up a GBA game.

BTP

Lunker wrote: »

UncleSporky wrote: »

Pokemon has never really been a kids' game. The cartoons and marketing, sure, but the games themselves are solid RPGs, reminiscent of early Final Fantasies IMO. The handheld games, anyway.

For serious! Read these in-depth FAQs and tell me this is a game for children.

I'll give another one. Articles from "Smogon University" for the GBA games.

Read these only when you learn what it's like to battle, because they won't make sense to you otherwise. But when you do understand all of this, you'll be like "Holy shit, these guys are insane to think so thoroughly with this."

If you need something start, the rules used in Pokemon today really started with the Gold/Silver/Crystal generation, so here's their beginner's guide for that period.
http://www.smogon.com/gs/articles/introduction

But if you really need the Red/Blue/Yellow stuff, they have them as well.
http://www.smogon.com/rb/articles/

But all of that is specifically for battling, especially against human opponents. In terms of getting through the game from the very beginning, then yeah, GameFAQ or strategy guide.

Pata

Tw4win wrote: »

Fire Red/Leaf Green Difference. Also, how do those compare to Emerald? I'm thinking about picking up a GBA game.

The sole difference between Fire Red and Leaf Green is a few Pokemon exclusive to each version.

Now Emerald is a different beast. It has a different set of Pokemon, takes place in a different area, and is a different game on the whole, with just the same basic gameplay mechanics.

Personally, if you're not just going to wait till Diamond/Pearl I'd suggest Emerald because there's so much more to do in that game.

MiserableMirth

The battle system in Pokemon is a beautiful thing. It is so simple that anyone can pick up and enjoy it, but at the same time so deep that there can be very competitive play.

Having complete costomation over your team and strategy is awesome as well. I'm super stoked for Wifi in DP.

Glal

UncleSporky wrote: »

Pokemon has never really been a kids' game. The cartoons and marketing, sure, but the games themselves are solid RPGs, reminiscent of early Final Fantasies IMO. The handheld games, anyway.

How early? I'm getting the DS one when it comes out, but from what I've seen there really doesn't seem to be much story (or anything to do with characters) past 'beat the next trainer/gym in line'. Like an RPG combat engine without the adventure. I'd love to be wrong, mind.

Pata

Glal wrote: »

UncleSporky wrote: »

Pokemon has never really been a kids' game. The cartoons and marketing, sure, but the games themselves are solid RPGs, reminiscent of early Final Fantasies IMO. The handheld games, anyway.

How early? I'm getting the DS one when it comes out, but from what I've seen there really doesn't seem to be much story (or anything to do with characters) past 'beat the next trainer/gym in line'. Like an RPG combat engine without the adventure. I'd love to be wrong, mind.

He said early Final Fantasies.

Silent Protagonist has an adventure, the main plot is "Beat gym leaders and become champion" but there's always been a side plot involving you battling antagonists, and the side plot has been growing in scale in each game.

Willeth

After about three or four gym leaders, the story of 'oh shit evil people taking over the world' tends to come into play a LOT more. By the end of the game you're fighting a maniac hell bent on destroying the world as we know it for his own personal agenda by using a titanic sea monster to raise hell. It's pretty fucking cool.

RichardTauber

Yellow! YELLOW IS THE ONLY ANSWER!

Willeth

Yellow is only the answer if you want to stay in the shack all day and play the surfing minigame. Seriously, that rocked.

MiserableMirth

The older games are pretty primitive with their menus and organization. Remember having to go to computer to change the box because it was to full? Pokemon has come a long way in that regard.

They did fuck us pretty hard on EV training.

Pata

MiserableMirth wrote: »

They did fuck us pretty hard on EV training.

EVs never have been intended to be used by the player. They're a system to add some randomness to Pokemon, so two different Pokemon of the same species are different.

RonnieWooWoo!

Am I the only one that had absolutely no use for these games? Normally I love RPGs, and when I played through Yellow I had to force myself to finish it. Once you get an idea of what type beats what type, the game turns into a glorified Roshambo. You take note of the enemy's "type"...roll out your opposing type...spam it's most powerful attack until enemy dies....repeat step 1.

Pata

RonnieWooWoo! wrote: »

Am I the only one that had absolutely no use for these games? Normally I love RPGs, and when I played through Yellow I had to force myself to finish it. Once you get an idea of what type beats what type, the game turns into a glorified Roshambo. You take note of the enemy's "type"...roll out your opposing type...spam it's most powerful attack until enemy dies....repeat step 1.

Ahahahahaha.

Try multiplayer.

Watch as you get raped.

UncleSporky

Pata wrote: »

Glal wrote: »

UncleSporky wrote: »

Pokemon has never really been a kids' game. The cartoons and marketing, sure, but the games themselves are solid RPGs, reminiscent of early Final Fantasies IMO. The handheld games, anyway.

How early? I'm getting the DS one when it comes out, but from what I've seen there really doesn't seem to be much story (or anything to do with characters) past 'beat the next trainer/gym in line'. Like an RPG combat engine without the adventure. I'd love to be wrong, mind.

He said early Final Fantasies.

Silent Protagonist has an adventure, the main plot is "Beat gym leaders and become champion" but there's always been a side plot involving you battling antagonists, and the side plot has been growing in scale in each game.

Exactly.

If you want specific FFs to compare it to...FF3 or 4 might be good, except the game mechanics are a bit more complex. There're some Zelda-esque environment interaction/upgrades like being able to cut down trees or swim.

Because there isn't a "party" as such you don't have some of the typical emo stuff in JRPGs like the tragic passing of your father the king and discovering your love interest is actually a descendent of the ancients. But there are sad moments, creepy moments, and fun moments.



Lots of minor quests, not just gym leader to gym leader. That's your main goal, much like gathering the crystals or whatever but there're plenty of subplots. In the early games it was primarily Team Rocket mucking things up, who were less like the goofy bums on the show and more like the mafia.

The Muffin Man

Also, it's not as simple as Fire-Grass-Water-Rock-Flying.

You think your Fire-type is gonna fuck the shit out of that Grass-type? Well he's packing Earthquake AND he's faster than you. You've just lost with Scissors to Paper.

MiserableMirth

Pata wrote: »

MiserableMirth wrote: »

They did fuck us pretty hard on EV training.

EVs never have been intended to be used by the player. They're a system to add some randomness to Pokemon, so two different Pokemon of the same species are different.

I have never thought of it that way. Oh well, I will continue to keep beating this "system."

RonnieWooWoo! wrote: »

Am I the only one that had absolutely no use for these games? Normally I love RPGs, and when I played through Yellow I had to force myself to finish it. Once you get an idea of what type beats what type, the game turns into a glorified Roshambo. You take note of the enemy's "type"...roll out your opposing type...spam it's most powerful attack until enemy dies....repeat step 1.

Yeah, the games are easy, and the main mission is as much of the focus of the game as collecting and training. Very few people beat the game and say "Oh that was fun, time to move on." They usually go catch more pokemon or raise a team to battle against a friend. I can understand if you didn't like it. I don't care for the "quest" in the game, and don't really start enjoying them until I have the items and HMs.

Also, battling is a totally different story when you start battling human opponents.

Chen

Am I the only one who cannot remember which are what types past the original 150? The counter is almost 500 now and I find it exceedingly difficult to defeat underused pokeymans because I have no idea what they're weak against. I feel like Ash Ketchum.

The Muffin Man

And like Sporky said, the scale got bigger and bigger:
(Red/Blue)
Team Rocket wanted world domination by using Pokemon.
(Gold/Silver)
Team Rocket wanted to reform and dominate the world using enraged Gyarados.(For this not in the know, think of the Mafia using an army of superdestructive Krakens)
(Ruby/Sapphire)
Team Magma/Aqua wanted to reform the world by summoning ancient Pokemon that would alter the face of the planet, Magma trying to dry up most of the water to give people and pokemon more places to live, and Aqua trying to flood the planet to give Water-types more room.
(Emerald)
Same as before, only this time instead of one team at a time, both teamas try it, and the Legendary Pokemon clash, causing catastrophic weather changes(torrential rain to blazing heat constantly, and unpredictably).
(Diamond/Pearl)
So far we have no idea what Team Astro is trying to do, but it's suspected that is has something to do with the Time, Space, and Death Pokemon Dialga, Palkia, and Guillotina.

And possibly Darkrei(Pokemon Devil?) and Arseus(Pokemon God)

MiserableMirth

I want to have a pokemon battle with Jesus.

I bet the fucker uses Double Team.

Magic Pink

Jesus would hand you your ass. I happen to know he uses a suped-up Jirachi.

I loves me some pokeymans like way. I'm far too excited about Diamond and Pearl.

darunia106

Wait a sec....

A pokemon devil and god!?!?!? That's awesome!

Seriously, I remember when Mewtwo was the be-all end-all of pokemon. Guess this bad dude feels kinda small next to the newer legendaries.