It's totally possible to set out on your own, build your own home, catch your own food, never depend on a government and just generally have a fine time roughing it in style.
There are a few nice documentaries about it. Just, no Libertarian ever does it because they don't actually want self-sufficiency, they want to be told they're correct and to have more money than they have right now.
This has been my standard counter line to the "I never agreed to all this society" line. They never agreed, their parent's agreed for them, which is proper because an infant can't agree to anything. And they have never felt compelled to cancel the contract. If I sign up for a service, use it for 18 years free of charge, and then after 18 years I am required to pay for it, and don't stop using the service; I can't complain that I'm paying for it.
It works doubly well with Americans, as outside of those descended from salves or Native Americans, Their ancestors all explicitly chose to come to this country. They explicitly opted in.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Prison? What prison? Who is forcing you to stay, Ray? What's stopping you from leaving?
Laws. I can't leave the country without a passport, and I can't afford a passport or even get one without a social security card or an ID and birth certificate (which I'm lucky enough to have). Most countries also require at least a bachelors to gain citizenship.
Also, that argument is the 'argumentum ad somalium' fallacy. Like it or leave it is a false dilemma.
Then get a social security card, ID, save up for the passport then leave. Not sure where you'd go, though.
He might like Somalia. Or the Sudan. Really any central African country.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
You absolutely can leave the country without a passport. You just can't enter another country without one.
Well, most of 'em anyway.
So no, laws are not forcing you to stay. Laws are preventing you from trespassing into a nation you have no right to be in. Find somewhere else, then.
You can't even cross the border into Mexico or Canada without a passport anymore, and you certainly can't come back in without one.
Yes. Because Canada and Mexico are sovereign nations with defined borders. So you have to have a passport to enter them. But you do NOT need to have a passport to leave the US. Your passport is not inspected by US Border Patrol on your way out, is it?
You need to have a passport to enter a sovereign nation's territory because the people of that nation have decided that you have to identify yourself in order to access that nation. This has nothing to do with your argument about your nation and your government.
So, again, there is nothing preventing you from leaving. So why are you staying?
Did you read his post? He covered that. It was in the first line. "You just can't enter another country without one."
Nothing stopping some country abolishing all border controls. One might imagine what would happen in the libertarian paradise where malefactors are banished from a community; what happens if no other community will receive them?
Prison? What prison? Who is forcing you to stay, Ray? What's stopping you from leaving?
Laws. I can't leave the country without a passport, and I can't afford a passport or even get one without a social security card or an ID and birth certificate (which I'm lucky enough to have). Most countries also require at least a bachelors to gain citizenship.
Also, that argument is the 'argumentum ad somalium' fallacy. Like it or leave it is a false dilemma.
Then get a social security card, ID, save up for the passport then leave. Not sure where you'd go, though.
He might like Somalia. Or the Sudan. Really any central African country.
Thus began Ray's adventures in Africa....
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Well, he's complaining that he can't afford to leave, which strikes me as odd since that's exactly what would happen in his libertarian paradise, only much more so. The cost of moving his ass is greater than he is capable of providing for.
So in a libertarian utopia with no government provided transport or infrastructure, since you seem to be incapable of even affording a passport, how are you going to afford to pay all the corporations that will be providing the services that you seem to think are magicked out of thin air?
It's totally possible to set out on your own, build your own home, catch your own food, never depend on a government and just generally have a fine time roughing it in style.
There are a few nice documentaries about it. Just, no Libertarian ever does it because they don't actually want self-sufficiency, they want to be told they're correct and to have more money than they have right now.
This has been my standard counter line to the "I never agreed to all this society" line. They never agreed, their parent's agreed for them, which is proper because an infant can't agree to anything. And they have never felt compelled to cancel the contract. If I sign up for a service, use it for 18 years free of charge, and then after 18 years I am required to pay for it, and don't stop using the service; I can't complain that I'm paying for it.
It works doubly well with Americans, as outside of those descended from salves or Native Americans, Their ancestors all explicitly chose to come to this country. They explicitly opted in.
You can't do it because it's illegal. All land is government land and they don't like you doing that. The homesteading laws haven't existed for over 100 years.
Shurakai, guess what! You accepted the government taxes when you accepted cash from you first job, when you attended a government funded school, eat government inspected food, drink government provided clean water and accepted government provided protection in the form of police and military.
If you don't like the government taxes, stop using government provided services first. Then you can complain.
'If you don't like the prison, stop using their services first. Then you can complain.'
>It acts as if the world is simple when in fact the world is not.
Complicated systems require simple rules. The US tax code is a good example of this.
The 83 page spec i just read, for making 1 replacement component with 0 moving parts for a nuclear plant, That itself(the spec) references 3000 pages of material specs, and 2000+ pages of ASME code, along with another 500 pages of industry group references, all of which are distillations of decades of papers on various failures in design/materials/construction.
Are a great example of why this is complete shit.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
It's totally possible to set out on your own, build your own home, catch your own food, never depend on a government and just generally have a fine time roughing it in style.
There are a few nice documentaries about it. Just, no Libertarian ever does it because they don't actually want self-sufficiency, they want to be told they're correct and to have more money than they have right now.
This has been my standard counter line to the "I never agreed to all this society" line. They never agreed, their parent's agreed for them, which is proper because an infant can't agree to anything. And they have never felt compelled to cancel the contract. If I sign up for a service, use it for 18 years free of charge, and then after 18 years I am required to pay for it, and don't stop using the service; I can't complain that I'm paying for it.
It works doubly well with Americans, as outside of those descended from salves or Native Americans, Their ancestors all explicitly chose to come to this country. They explicitly opted in.
You can't do it because it's illegal. All land is government land and they don't like you doing that. The homesteading laws haven't existed for over 100 years.
You are proving woefully ignorant. Look up Slab City. You think people pay taxes there?
It's totally possible to set out on your own, build your own home, catch your own food, never depend on a government and just generally have a fine time roughing it in style.
There are a few nice documentaries about it. Just, no Libertarian ever does it because they don't actually want self-sufficiency, they want to be told they're correct and to have more money than they have right now.
This has been my standard counter line to the "I never agreed to all this society" line. They never agreed, their parent's agreed for them, which is proper because an infant can't agree to anything. And they have never felt compelled to cancel the contract. If I sign up for a service, use it for 18 years free of charge, and then after 18 years I am required to pay for it, and don't stop using the service; I can't complain that I'm paying for it.
It works doubly well with Americans, as outside of those descended from salves or Native Americans, Their ancestors all explicitly chose to come to this country. They explicitly opted in.
You can't do it because it's illegal. All land is government land and they don't like you doing that. The homesteading laws haven't existed for over 100 years.
You are proving woefully ignorant. Look up Slab City. You think people pay taxes there?
Government not stepping in to remove RVs from a desert wasteland? I'm shocked!
rayofash on
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Ray, considering that you can't afford to pay your way out of the US now, how would you expect to do it with no government services whatsoever?
It's totally possible to set out on your own, build your own home, catch your own food, never depend on a government and just generally have a fine time roughing it in style.
There are a few nice documentaries about it. Just, no Libertarian ever does it because they don't actually want self-sufficiency, they want to be told they're correct and to have more money than they have right now.
This has been my standard counter line to the "I never agreed to all this society" line. They never agreed, their parent's agreed for them, which is proper because an infant can't agree to anything. And they have never felt compelled to cancel the contract. If I sign up for a service, use it for 18 years free of charge, and then after 18 years I am required to pay for it, and don't stop using the service; I can't complain that I'm paying for it.
It works doubly well with Americans, as outside of those descended from salves or Native Americans, Their ancestors all explicitly chose to come to this country. They explicitly opted in.
You can't do it because it's illegal. All land is government land and they don't like you doing that. The homesteading laws haven't existed for over 100 years.
You are proving woefully ignorant. Look up Slab City. You think people pay taxes there?
Government not stepping in to remove RVs from a desert wasteland? I'm shocked!
are you angry that other people already took all the good land, then?
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Is a man entitled to what he earns through the sweat of his brow? No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the government. No, says the Vatican, it belongs to G_D. No, says Moscow. It belongs to everyone. I propose a different answer. I propose
RayofAsh
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I'd like to see them try that in an area with resources that the government might actually be interested in and see how well it goes.
I'll repeat. I live in NYC, one of the largest cities in the country. I see plenty of people who don't pay taxes everday. They're called homeless people, and they're not getting arrested in droves.
I'd like to see them try that in an area with resources that the government might actually be interested in and see how well it goes.
I'll repeat. I live in NYC, one of the largest cities in the country. I see plenty of people who don't pay taxes everday. They're called homeless people, and they're not getting arrested in droves.
And they actually benefit from a huge amount of government benefits. Not as many as the rest, but still more than they would in the jungle.
I'd like to see them try that in an area with resources that the government might actually be interested in and see how well it goes.
You have to play by a nation's rules if you have a community living there. When you don't don't want this to impede your libertarian utopia, and as long as you don't break any laws you won't, I suggest starting your colony somewhere not in somebody's territory. It's possible it just requires money, resources and researching to find the best location. Another option is to live on ships.
I'd like to see them try that in an area with resources that the government might actually be interested in and see how well it goes.
I'll repeat. I live in NYC, one of the largest cities in the country. I see plenty of people who don't pay taxes everday. They're called homeless people, and they're not getting arrested in droves.
They are in some cities. Some cities have passed laws making it illegal to give handouts to them.
But since you guys seem to think this works so well, I'll bring this up with the Libertarian community. We'll find a plot of land the government has declared 'wilderness', we'll setup a community there, and we'll declare independence. We'll see how well it goes.
I'd like to see them try that in an area with resources that the government might actually be interested in and see how well it goes.
I'll repeat. I live in NYC, one of the largest cities in the country. I see plenty of people who don't pay taxes everday. They're called homeless people, and they're not getting arrested in droves.
They are in some cities. Some cities have passed laws making it illegal to give handouts to them.
But since you guys seem to think this works so well, I'll bring this up with the Libertarian community. We'll find a plot of land the government has declared 'wilderness', we'll setup a community there, and we'll declare independence. We'll see how well it goes.
Setting up a community is fine. Independence, however. What for? All that'll get you is a stand off with the US government. You won't win. It will also taint how libertarianism is seen by the American public for generations.
I'd like to see them try that in an area with resources that the government might actually be interested in and see how well it goes.
I'll repeat. I live in NYC, one of the largest cities in the country. I see plenty of people who don't pay taxes everday. They're called homeless people, and they're not getting arrested in droves.
They are in some cities. Some cities have passed laws making it illegal to give handouts to them.
But since you guys seem to think this works so well, I'll bring this up with the Libertarian community. We'll find a plot of land the government has declared 'wilderness', we'll setup a community there, and we'll declare independence. We'll see how well it goes.
I'd like to see them try that in an area with resources that the government might actually be interested in and see how well it goes.
I'll repeat. I live in NYC, one of the largest cities in the country. I see plenty of people who don't pay taxes everday. They're called homeless people, and they're not getting arrested in droves.
They are in some cities. Some cities have passed laws making it illegal to give handouts to them.
But since you guys seem to think this works so well, I'll bring this up with the Libertarian community. We'll find a plot of land the government has declared 'wilderness', we'll setup a community there, and we'll declare independence. We'll see how well it goes.
Setting up a community is fine. Independence, however. What for? All that'll get you is a stand off with the US government. You won't win. It will also taint how libertarianism is seen by the American public for generations.
So that we can live free without the federal and state government telling us what we can and can't do.
What are your views on land ownership? Does the government have the right to claim all land, even land it's not using or has no interest in?
I'd like to see them try that in an area with resources that the government might actually be interested in and see how well it goes.
Well, all the land with resources is already being used. Are you proposing stealing it?
Resources belong to everybody.
How so? Or are you saying that no nations/forms of government are valid? It's one thing to not want to be a part of our society, it's completely another to say our society isn't valid.
I'd like to see them try that in an area with resources that the government might actually be interested in and see how well it goes.
I'll repeat. I live in NYC, one of the largest cities in the country. I see plenty of people who don't pay taxes everday. They're called homeless people, and they're not getting arrested in droves.
They are in some cities. Some cities have passed laws making it illegal to give handouts to them.
But since you guys seem to think this works so well, I'll bring this up with the Libertarian community. We'll find a plot of land the government has declared 'wilderness', we'll setup a community there, and we'll declare independence. We'll see how well it goes.
aside from the declaration of independence bit, this is exactly what slab city is. Most of the permanent residents are poor and they're still subject to U.S. law, but they for damn sure aren't paying taxes.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I'd like to see them try that in an area with resources that the government might actually be interested in and see how well it goes.
Well, all the land with resources is already being used. Are you proposing stealing it?
Resources belong to everybody.
But they're using them. How is going in and taking the land any worse than just paying taxes? How is it any different?
Who said anything about taking? It should be shared. We'd do the work of extracting the resources ourselves and give what we don't need to those who need it.
I'd like to see them try that in an area with resources that the government might actually be interested in and see how well it goes.
I'll repeat. I live in NYC, one of the largest cities in the country. I see plenty of people who don't pay taxes everday. They're called homeless people, and they're not getting arrested in droves.
They are in some cities. Some cities have passed laws making it illegal to give handouts to them.
But since you guys seem to think this works so well, I'll bring this up with the Libertarian community. We'll find a plot of land the government has declared 'wilderness', we'll setup a community there, and we'll declare independence. We'll see how well it goes.
Setting up a community is fine. Independence, however. What for? All that'll get you is a stand off with the US government. You won't win. It will also taint how libertarianism is seen by the American public for generations.
So that we can live free without the federal and state government telling us what we can and can't do.
Then find a place where you can do that. There's a whole world out there.
What are your views on land ownership? Does the government have the right to claim all land, even land it's not using or has no interest in?
All land isn't owned by the government. People and companies can buy it for themselves.
Why exactly do you want to stay here for your community if you don't like the society? What's wrong with finding some other location, which can be bought (need lots of cash of course) and set it up all legal. Then no-one will bother you.
So that we can live free without the federal and state government telling us what we can and can't do.
What are your views on land ownership? Does the government have the right to claim all land, even land it's not using or has no interest in?
Empty space is still in use, it's being used as space. It's like saying that because I don't put posters on my wall you should be able to go to town on it with crayons.
Posts
This has been my standard counter line to the "I never agreed to all this society" line. They never agreed, their parent's agreed for them, which is proper because an infant can't agree to anything. And they have never felt compelled to cancel the contract. If I sign up for a service, use it for 18 years free of charge, and then after 18 years I am required to pay for it, and don't stop using the service; I can't complain that I'm paying for it.
It works doubly well with Americans, as outside of those descended from salves or Native Americans, Their ancestors all explicitly chose to come to this country. They explicitly opted in.
He might like Somalia. Or the Sudan. Really any central African country.
Yes. Because Canada and Mexico are sovereign nations with defined borders. So you have to have a passport to enter them. But you do NOT need to have a passport to leave the US. Your passport is not inspected by US Border Patrol on your way out, is it?
You need to have a passport to enter a sovereign nation's territory because the people of that nation have decided that you have to identify yourself in order to access that nation. This has nothing to do with your argument about your nation and your government.
So, again, there is nothing preventing you from leaving. So why are you staying?
Nothing stopping some country abolishing all border controls. One might imagine what would happen in the libertarian paradise where malefactors are banished from a community; what happens if no other community will receive them?
Thus began Ray's adventures in Africa....
So in a libertarian utopia with no government provided transport or infrastructure, since you seem to be incapable of even affording a passport, how are you going to afford to pay all the corporations that will be providing the services that you seem to think are magicked out of thin air?
You can't do it because it's illegal. All land is government land and they don't like you doing that. The homesteading laws haven't existed for over 100 years.
The 83 page spec i just read, for making 1 replacement component with 0 moving parts for a nuclear plant, That itself(the spec) references 3000 pages of material specs, and 2000+ pages of ASME code, along with another 500 pages of industry group references, all of which are distillations of decades of papers on various failures in design/materials/construction.
Are a great example of why this is complete shit.
You are proving woefully ignorant. Look up Slab City. You think people pay taxes there?
Would you like for us to pool our funds together to get you a ticket out there?
Hell, I've got time on my hands. I can help you pack.
are you angry that other people already took all the good land, then?
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
So you want a free oil deposit now?
RayofAsh
I'll repeat. I live in NYC, one of the largest cities in the country. I see plenty of people who don't pay taxes everday. They're called homeless people, and they're not getting arrested in droves.
Well, all the land with resources is already being used. Are you proposing stealing it?
And they actually benefit from a huge amount of government benefits. Not as many as the rest, but still more than they would in the jungle.
You have to play by a nation's rules if you have a community living there. When you don't don't want this to impede your libertarian utopia, and as long as you don't break any laws you won't, I suggest starting your colony somewhere not in somebody's territory. It's possible it just requires money, resources and researching to find the best location. Another option is to live on ships.
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2012/04/this-day-in-labor-history-april-20-1914
But since you guys seem to think this works so well, I'll bring this up with the Libertarian community. We'll find a plot of land the government has declared 'wilderness', we'll setup a community there, and we'll declare independence. We'll see how well it goes.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Resources belong to everybody.
Commie pinko socialist thinking, that.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Setting up a community is fine. Independence, however. What for? All that'll get you is a stand off with the US government. You won't win. It will also taint how libertarianism is seen by the American public for generations.
.....
Petoria?
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
But they're using them. How is going in and taking the land any worse than just paying taxes? How is it any different?
So that we can live free without the federal and state government telling us what we can and can't do.
What are your views on land ownership? Does the government have the right to claim all land, even land it's not using or has no interest in?
How so? Or are you saying that no nations/forms of government are valid? It's one thing to not want to be a part of our society, it's completely another to say our society isn't valid.
aside from the declaration of independence bit, this is exactly what slab city is. Most of the permanent residents are poor and they're still subject to U.S. law, but they for damn sure aren't paying taxes.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Who said anything about taking? It should be shared. We'd do the work of extracting the resources ourselves and give what we don't need to those who need it.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
What if it's something everybody needs to survive, like water? Should some die simply because they can't afford it?
And not all resources are scarce. We've only tapped the top 25%, the rest are in the ocean.
Then find a place where you can do that. There's a whole world out there.
All land isn't owned by the government. People and companies can buy it for themselves.
Why exactly do you want to stay here for your community if you don't like the society? What's wrong with finding some other location, which can be bought (need lots of cash of course) and set it up all legal. Then no-one will bother you.
Empty space is still in use, it's being used as space. It's like saying that because I don't put posters on my wall you should be able to go to town on it with crayons.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com