As far as the Wii neglecting the traditional gamer, it's not so much a matter of there not being good games (there are many) but that there were big gaping holes in their library. There wasn't a single big multiplayer FPS on the system and until Xenoblade came out just recently, there wasn't a single big RPG either. There's two major genres that were horribly represented on the system. That's not to say that there were NO RPGs or FPS games, just that there weren't any with a high profile and that reviewed well.
Paper Mario reviewed ok I thought :P And they had Monster Hunter (and I think a couple Dragon Warrior games?) Also there were definitely some multiplayer FPSers (or at least, Call of Duty games to co-incide with whatever the latest CoD-of-the-week was). Also the Activision Goldeneye. Not to say you are wrong, just that there are a few examples
But I think ultimately it goes back to what Iwata was talking about. They didn't deliver this stuff fast enough, so the audience for it flat out wasn't there. FPSers and RPGs are kind of a niche market in the sense that they almost exclusively appeal to the hardcore crowd, unlike say, Mario or Zelda which probably has pretty wide appeal to both sides. Since they didn't nurture that audience early on, you didn't really see a lot of those genres represented on the system (because no one was there to purchase them :P).
I would say however, that FPS also usually showcase high-end graphics. In that regard, the Wii could never win.
Nintendo's biggest failing with the Wii was to not understand the internet. I still think they don't quite get it.
Their new online strategy involves the retailers in an important position so probably not really.
Actually that part is simply selling digital download codes in retail stores, you'll still be able to buy all their games on the digital store and bypass all that.
The retail part of it is a step further than their competitors, right? Can you buy games for download on PSN in stores?
Nintendo's biggest failing with the Wii was to not understand the internet. I still think they don't quite get it.
Their new online strategy involves the retailers in an important position so probably not really.
Actually that part is simply selling digital download codes in retail stores, you'll still be able to buy all their games on the digital store and bypass all that.
The retail part of it is a step further than their competitors, right? Can you buy games for download on PSN in stores?
I swear they promised this (PSN stuff), but honestly I haven't seen it. Maybe I haven't been looking hard enough though (and I rarely go to GameStop anymore so *shrug*)
Chocobo Dungeon Wii
Super Paper Mario
Tales of Symphonia 2
Phantom Brave
Sakura Wars 5
Oopoona
Arc Rise Fantasia
Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn
Shiren the Wanderer
Final Fantasy Echoes of Time
Crystal Bearers is debatable. It's more of an action game to me while Super Paper Mario is clearly an RPG with a lot of action in it.
With the 360 you have
Enchanted Arms
Rusty Bell
Infinite Undiscovery
Lost Odyssey
Blue Dragon
Star Ocean 4
Nier (debatable)
Tales of Vesperia
FF XIII
FF XIII-2
The PS3 has most of those plus Disgaea 3 and 4 and VC. I'm missing a bunch of stuff I never got around to playing, but its not quite as bad as FPS where its basically, COD ports, Conduit, Goldeneye.
Chocobo Dungeon Wii
Super Paper Mario
Tales of Symphonia 2
Phantom Brave
Sakura Wars 5
Oopoona
Arc Rise Fantasia
Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn
Shiren the Wanderer
Final Fantasy Echoes of Time
Crystal Bearers is debatable. It's more of an action game to me while Super Paper Mario is clearly an RPG with a lot of action in it.
With the 360 you have
Enchanted Arms
Rusty Bell
Infinite Undiscovery
Lost Odyssey
Blue Dragon
Star Ocean 4
Nier (debatable)
Tales of Vesperia
FF XIII
FF XIII-2
The PS3 has most of those plus Disgaea 3 and 4 and VC. I'm missing a bunch of stuff I never got around to playing, but its not quite as bad as FPS where its basically, COD ports, Conduit, Goldeneye.
Got rid of the PS2 ports and all games with a Gameranking average of under 70%. Also not including download-only titles.
Wii's US JRPG lineup pre Xenoblade:
Super Paper Mario (85.17%)
Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn (78.48%)
Chocobo Dungeon Wii (76.23%)
Shiren the Wanderer (73.52%)
Tales of Symphonia (70.47%)
360 JRPG lineup before 2012:
Tales of Vesperia (81.64%) - Xbox 360 exclusive
FF XIII (81.58%)
Rusty Bell (80.32%)
Lost Odyssey (79.79%) - Xbox 360 exclusive
Blue Dragon (77.48%) - Xbox 360 exclusive
Resonance of Fate (74.70%)
Star Ocean 4 (74.63%)
Enchanted Arms (72.08%)
So the gap isn't as wide as I thought at first since I forgot Super Paper Mario (so disappointed by it) and Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn (which I wouldn't mind playing but have never seen it for less than $50). But the important thing is that the Wii had basically no non-JRPG RPGs whereas the 360 & PS3 had stuff like the Mass Effect series, Dragon Age, Fallout 3, Dark/Demon's Souls, etc. Although none of the current set of game consoles has a great JRPG lineup, the 360 and PS3 both have great RPG lineups in general.
Getting back to the point, the article's muddled point betrays a profound misunderstanding of Nintendo's past strategic mistakes and the direction they're headed in the future.
The article basically says the same things they always do about Nintendo. You can't expect them to actually read Iwata's comments!
There is a lot of te games press that remain convinced Nintendo cannot get it "right" any more, despite the many changes they made with the 3DS and have announced for the future. It'd probably take some time of Nintendo "doing it right" before the story of them "not getting it" is ever dropped. It's too easy a story to keep writing.
The article basically says the same things they always do about Nintendo. You can't expect them to actually read Iwata's comments!
There is a lot of te games press that remain convinced Nintendo cannot get it "right" any more, despite the many changes they made with the 3DS and have announced for the future. It'd probably take some time of Nintendo "doing it right" before the story of them "not getting it" is ever dropped. It's too easy a story to keep writing.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if we get more details on the WiiU at E3 - System price, an exact launch date, some of the exclusive games that will come out at or near launch.
My personal guess is that the WiiU is going to be another Gamecube - a solid contender but not the market leader.
WiiU isn't getting a price announcement at E3, sadly. As for next gen, could see it being Xbox 3 >> WiiU~PS4
They're also apparently not announcing a release date. Though if it's like every other Nintendo console, my bet would be sometime in November.
totally random speculation; but I wonder if the delay of Darksiders 2 had anything to do with the launch of the WiiU. They touted it as one of their launch titles; could the WiiU be ready in August; I wonder?
Nintendo's biggest failing with the Wii was to not understand the internet. I still think they don't quite get it.
Their new online strategy involves the retailers in an important position so probably not really.
Actually that part is simply selling digital download codes in retail stores, you'll still be able to buy all their games on the digital store and bypass all that.
The retail part of it is a step further than their competitors, right? Can you buy games for download on PSN in stores?
They're available for the other guys, but the very, very interesting part is that they're allowed to set their own prices. So it's possible for the retailers to have their own sales, just like they do for physical games. The retailers should love that, and it might be better for consumers assuming the stores are still as sale-happy then as they are now.
Ok, so the Wii didn't have much in the way of "real games" like RPG's and FPS's and such.
My questions is... how is this ultimately Nintendo's fault?
This sounds like that age old problem Nintendo consoles have always had: 3rd parties. There's nothing stopping them from releasing FPS's on the Wii. I'm pretty sure Miyamoto isn't standing at the gates with his Master sword in hand screaming "No eff pee ess uus!". So why is it Nintendo's fault there aren't any on the system? It's the 3rd parties with their heads up their ass and choosing to support the iPhone over the Wii with shit. The only active denial of a game I remember was Xenoblade, which Nintendo refused to let 3rd parties localize. But for all anybody knows, maybe they were always planning on bringing it over anyways at that point, and were just trying some stupid plot that horribly backfired on them.
So again, how is that their fault? Or is it because they're not like Sony and MS and not spreading their legs wide enough so the 3rd parties can penetrate easier?
...Actually that was a horrible metaphor. Oh well, it's out there now...
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Part of the issue is that third parties had geared up for HD development and massively expanded their art teams. Who's going to put serious effort behind a Wii game when you have to slash your team to do it?
Instead they made games for the HD consoles and then all got fired anyway.
Nintendo didn't do a very good job courting developers.
I mean don't get me wrong, they're not completely blameless. It does take two to tango, and Nintendo can be a pretty poor dance partner.
But if I'm cocking my hand to slap somebody over the lack of shooting dudes on my Wii, I'd sooner aim it for say CliffyB than Mr. Iwata.
does unreal engine 3 run on wii? i mean it runs on iphone so i hope wii could handle it, but most ports 360/PS3-> simply chuck that original game and make a similar, much uglier game.
Nintendo didn't do a very good job courting developers.
I mean don't get me wrong, they're not completely blameless. It does take two to tango, and Nintendo can be a pretty poor dance partner.
But if I'm cocking my hand to slap somebody over the lack of shooting dudes on my Wii, I'd sooner aim it for say CliffyB than Mr. Iwata.
does unreal engine 3 run on wii? i mean it runs on iphone so i hope wii could handle it, but most ports 360/PS3-> simply chuck that original game and make a similar, much uglier game.
Not according to Epic.
Nintendo Console Codes
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Ok, so the Wii didn't have much in the way of "real games" like RPG's and FPS's and such.
My questions is... how is this ultimately Nintendo's fault?
This sounds like that age old problem Nintendo consoles have always had: 3rd parties. There's nothing stopping them from releasing FPS's on the Wii. I'm pretty sure Miyamoto isn't standing at the gates with his Master sword in hand screaming "No eff pee ess uus!". So why is it Nintendo's fault there aren't any on the system? It's the 3rd parties with their heads up their ass and choosing to support the iPhone over the Wii with shit. The only active denial of a game I remember was Xenoblade, which Nintendo refused to let 3rd parties localize. But for all anybody knows, maybe they were always planning on bringing it over anyways at that point, and were just trying some stupid plot that horribly backfired on them.
So again, how is that their fault? Or is it because they're not like Sony and MS and not spreading their legs wide enough so the 3rd parties can penetrate easier?
...Actually that was a horrible metaphor. Oh well, it's out there now...
On the FPS front, there's not a whole lot they could do other than try to do a better job at courting 3rd party developers. On the RPG front, however, they were sitting on 2 highly acclaimed RPGs - Xenoblade & Last Story - that Nintendo published in Japan and is only just now releasing in the US. Although it's great that we're getting them eventually, if they had released them in the US soon after their initial Japanese releases in 2010 & 2011 when the Wii was still going strong that might have encouraged other RPG localizers to bring over stuff like Earth Seeker & Tales of Graces after seeing Xenoblade & Last Story's success.
Ok, so the Wii didn't have much in the way of "real games" like RPG's and FPS's and such.
My questions is... how is this ultimately Nintendo's fault?
This sounds like that age old problem Nintendo consoles have always had: 3rd parties. There's nothing stopping them from releasing FPS's on the Wii. I'm pretty sure Miyamoto isn't standing at the gates with his Master sword in hand screaming "No eff pee ess uus!". So why is it Nintendo's fault there aren't any on the system? It's the 3rd parties with their heads up their ass and choosing to support the iPhone over the Wii with shit. The only active denial of a game I remember was Xenoblade, which Nintendo refused to let 3rd parties localize. But for all anybody knows, maybe they were always planning on bringing it over anyways at that point, and were just trying some stupid plot that horribly backfired on them.
So again, how is that their fault? Or is it because they're not like Sony and MS and not spreading their legs wide enough so the 3rd parties can penetrate easier?
...Actually that was a horrible metaphor. Oh well, it's out there now...
On the FPS front, there's not a whole lot they could do other than try to do a better job at courting 3rd party developers. On the RPG front, however, they were sitting on 2 highly acclaimed RPGs - Xenoblade & Last Story - that Nintendo published in Japan and is only just now releasing in the US. Although it's great that we're getting them eventually, if they had released them in the US soon after their initial Japanese releases in 2010 & 2011 when the Wii was still going strong that might have encouraged other RPG localizers to bring over stuff like Earth Seeker & Tales of Graces after seeing Xenoblade & Last Story's success.
I don't blame NOA when it comes to Tales of Graces. Namco's just weird when it comes to localizing Tales games.
Nintendo Console Codes
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Ok, so the Wii didn't have much in the way of "real games" like RPG's and FPS's and such.
My questions is... how is this ultimately Nintendo's fault?
This sounds like that age old problem Nintendo consoles have always had: 3rd parties. There's nothing stopping them from releasing FPS's on the Wii. I'm pretty sure Miyamoto isn't standing at the gates with his Master sword in hand screaming "No eff pee ess uus!". So why is it Nintendo's fault there aren't any on the system? It's the 3rd parties with their heads up their ass and choosing to support the iPhone over the Wii with shit. The only active denial of a game I remember was Xenoblade, which Nintendo refused to let 3rd parties localize. But for all anybody knows, maybe they were always planning on bringing it over anyways at that point, and were just trying some stupid plot that horribly backfired on them.
So again, how is that their fault? Or is it because they're not like Sony and MS and not spreading their legs wide enough so the 3rd parties can penetrate easier?
...Actually that was a horrible metaphor. Oh well, it's out there now...
On the FPS front, there's not a whole lot they could do other than try to do a better job at courting 3rd party developers. On the RPG front, however, they were sitting on 2 highly acclaimed RPGs - Xenoblade & Last Story - that Nintendo published in Japan and is only just now releasing in the US. Although it's great that we're getting them eventually, if they had released them in the US soon after their initial Japanese releases in 2010 & 2011 when the Wii was still going strong that might have encouraged other RPG localizers to bring over stuff like Earth Seeker & Tales of Graces after seeing Xenoblade & Last Story's success.
I don't blame NOA when it comes to Tales of Graces. Namco's just weird when it comes to localizing Tales games.
Oh, I don't blame NOA directly when it comes to something like Tales of Graces - I'm just saying that if they had shown a little initiative, it might have encouraged other developers to follow suit. And in that particular game's case, it turned out for the better since we ended up getting the enhanced PS3 version in the end (which personally, I've been enjoying more than Xenoblade although they're both great games).
I mean, I understand why Nintendo cancelled something like Fatal Frame 4 since although that would have garnered them some hardcore gamer cred, it's unlikely it would have been anything but a sales disaster (much like Sin & Punishment 2 was). However to not bringing over 2 big RPGs that they owned the rights to (both of which have some name recognition, Xeno- in the one case, and Final Fantasy creator in the other) until pressured was pretty ridiculous - it's not like we're back in the 16-bit era when RPGs were still niche.
Ok, so the Wii didn't have much in the way of "real games" like RPG's and FPS's and such.
My questions is... how is this ultimately Nintendo's fault?
This sounds like that age old problem Nintendo consoles have always had: 3rd parties. There's nothing stopping them from releasing FPS's on the Wii. I'm pretty sure Miyamoto isn't standing at the gates with his Master sword in hand screaming "No eff pee ess uus!". So why is it Nintendo's fault there aren't any on the system? It's the 3rd parties with their heads up their ass and choosing to support the iPhone over the Wii with shit. The only active denial of a game I remember was Xenoblade, which Nintendo refused to let 3rd parties localize. But for all anybody knows, maybe they were always planning on bringing it over anyways at that point, and were just trying some stupid plot that horribly backfired on them.
So again, how is that their fault? Or is it because they're not like Sony and MS and not spreading their legs wide enough so the 3rd parties can penetrate easier?
...Actually that was a horrible metaphor. Oh well, it's out there now...
On the FPS front, there's not a whole lot they could do other than try to do a better job at courting 3rd party developers. On the RPG front, however, they were sitting on 2 highly acclaimed RPGs - Xenoblade & Last Story - that Nintendo published in Japan and is only just now releasing in the US. Although it's great that we're getting them eventually, if they had released them in the US soon after their initial Japanese releases in 2010 & 2011 when the Wii was still going strong that might have encouraged other RPG localizers to bring over stuff like Earth Seeker & Tales of Graces after seeing Xenoblade & Last Story's success.
I don't blame NOA when it comes to Tales of Graces. Namco's just weird when it comes to localizing Tales games.
Oh, I don't blame NOA directly when it comes to something like Tales of Graces - I'm just saying that if they had shown a little initiative, it might have encouraged other developers to follow suit. And in that particular game's case, it turned out for the better since we ended up getting the enhanced PS3 version in the end (which personally, I've been enjoying more than Xenoblade although they're both great games).
I mean, I understand why Nintendo cancelled something like Fatal Frame 4 since although that would have garnered them some hardcore gamer cred, it's unlikely it would have been anything but a sales disaster (much like Sin & Punishment 2 was). However to not bringing over 2 big RPGs that they owned the rights to (both of which have some name recognition, Xeno- in the one case, and Final Fantasy creator in the other) until pressured was pretty ridiculous - it's not like we're back in the 16-bit era when RPGs were still niche.
I completely agree. Sometimes I wonder what they're thinking. It's also not like they weren't already translated.
Nintendo Console Codes
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
The only way Nintendo could court 3rd parties was by heavy bribery by either giving them access to one of their characters, basically making most of the game for them, or actual cash. Third party devs will follow the path of least resistance and the 360/PS3 were at the end of that path while Nintendo was on some crazy uphill offshoot. If you managed to get up that hill the ride down meant you ended up in the same place and got more bang for your buck, but third parties never wanted to put in that much up front effort and so they failed on the Wii, shrugged their shoulders, and went over to the easier path.
Ok, so the Wii didn't have much in the way of "real games" like RPG's and FPS's and such.
My questions is... how is this ultimately Nintendo's fault?
This sounds like that age old problem Nintendo consoles have always had: 3rd parties. There's nothing stopping them from releasing FPS's on the Wii. I'm pretty sure Miyamoto isn't standing at the gates with his Master sword in hand screaming "No eff pee ess uus!". So why is it Nintendo's fault there aren't any on the system? It's the 3rd parties with their heads up their ass and choosing to support the iPhone over the Wii with shit. The only active denial of a game I remember was Xenoblade, which Nintendo refused to let 3rd parties localize. But for all anybody knows, maybe they were always planning on bringing it over anyways at that point, and were just trying some stupid plot that horribly backfired on them.
So again, how is that their fault? Or is it because they're not like Sony and MS and not spreading their legs wide enough so the 3rd parties can penetrate easier?
...Actually that was a horrible metaphor. Oh well, it's out there now...
On the FPS front, there's not a whole lot they could do other than try to do a better job at courting 3rd party developers. On the RPG front, however, they were sitting on 2 highly acclaimed RPGs - Xenoblade & Last Story - that Nintendo published in Japan and is only just now releasing in the US. Although it's great that we're getting them eventually, if they had released them in the US soon after their initial Japanese releases in 2010 & 2011 when the Wii was still going strong that might have encouraged other RPG localizers to bring over stuff like Earth Seeker & Tales of Graces after seeing Xenoblade & Last Story's success.
I don't blame NOA when it comes to Tales of Graces. Namco's just weird when it comes to localizing Tales games.
Oh, I don't blame NOA directly when it comes to something like Tales of Graces - I'm just saying that if they had shown a little initiative, it might have encouraged other developers to follow suit. And in that particular game's case, it turned out for the better since we ended up getting the enhanced PS3 version in the end (which personally, I've been enjoying more than Xenoblade although they're both great games).
I mean, I understand why Nintendo cancelled something like Fatal Frame 4 since although that would have garnered them some hardcore gamer cred, it's unlikely it would have been anything but a sales disaster (much like Sin & Punishment 2 was). However to not bringing over 2 big RPGs that they owned the rights to (both of which have some name recognition, Xeno- in the one case, and Final Fantasy creator in the other) until pressured was pretty ridiculous - it's not like we're back in the 16-bit era when RPGs were still niche.
Them localizing Sin & Punishment 2 still surprises me, as they must have known that it was going to flop pretty hard. Personally, I'm glad they did...I love that game.
Ok, so the Wii didn't have much in the way of "real games" like RPG's and FPS's and such.
My questions is... how is this ultimately Nintendo's fault?
This sounds like that age old problem Nintendo consoles have always had: 3rd parties. There's nothing stopping them from releasing FPS's on the Wii. I'm pretty sure Miyamoto isn't standing at the gates with his Master sword in hand screaming "No eff pee ess uus!". So why is it Nintendo's fault there aren't any on the system? It's the 3rd parties with their heads up their ass and choosing to support the iPhone over the Wii with shit. The only active denial of a game I remember was Xenoblade, which Nintendo refused to let 3rd parties localize. But for all anybody knows, maybe they were always planning on bringing it over anyways at that point, and were just trying some stupid plot that horribly backfired on them.
So again, how is that their fault? Or is it because they're not like Sony and MS and not spreading their legs wide enough so the 3rd parties can penetrate easier?
...Actually that was a horrible metaphor. Oh well, it's out there now...
On the FPS front, there's not a whole lot they could do other than try to do a better job at courting 3rd party developers. On the RPG front, however, they were sitting on 2 highly acclaimed RPGs - Xenoblade & Last Story - that Nintendo published in Japan and is only just now releasing in the US. Although it's great that we're getting them eventually, if they had released them in the US soon after their initial Japanese releases in 2010 & 2011 when the Wii was still going strong that might have encouraged other RPG localizers to bring over stuff like Earth Seeker & Tales of Graces after seeing Xenoblade & Last Story's success.
I don't blame NOA when it comes to Tales of Graces. Namco's just weird when it comes to localizing Tales games.
Oh, I don't blame NOA directly when it comes to something like Tales of Graces - I'm just saying that if they had shown a little initiative, it might have encouraged other developers to follow suit. And in that particular game's case, it turned out for the better since we ended up getting the enhanced PS3 version in the end (which personally, I've been enjoying more than Xenoblade although they're both great games).
I mean, I understand why Nintendo cancelled something like Fatal Frame 4 since although that would have garnered them some hardcore gamer cred, it's unlikely it would have been anything but a sales disaster (much like Sin & Punishment 2 was). However to not bringing over 2 big RPGs that they owned the rights to (both of which have some name recognition, Xeno- in the one case, and Final Fantasy creator in the other) until pressured was pretty ridiculous - it's not like we're back in the 16-bit era when RPGs were still niche.
Them localizing Sin & Punishment 2 still surprises me, as they must have known that it was going to flop pretty hard. Personally, I'm glad they did...I love that game.
From what I understand, Sin & Punishment 1 sold surprisingly well on the Wii VC which is why they brought over the sequel. Unfortunately, they didn't realize that part of the reason why S&P1 sold so well was because it was a cheap download title. If S&P2 had been a $10-$20 WiiWare title, I think it would have done much better.
Ok, so the Wii didn't have much in the way of "real games" like RPG's and FPS's and such.
My questions is... how is this ultimately Nintendo's fault?
This sounds like that age old problem Nintendo consoles have always had: 3rd parties. There's nothing stopping them from releasing FPS's on the Wii. I'm pretty sure Miyamoto isn't standing at the gates with his Master sword in hand screaming "No eff pee ess uus!". So why is it Nintendo's fault there aren't any on the system? It's the 3rd parties with their heads up their ass and choosing to support the iPhone over the Wii with shit. The only active denial of a game I remember was Xenoblade, which Nintendo refused to let 3rd parties localize. But for all anybody knows, maybe they were always planning on bringing it over anyways at that point, and were just trying some stupid plot that horribly backfired on them.
So again, how is that their fault? Or is it because they're not like Sony and MS and not spreading their legs wide enough so the 3rd parties can penetrate easier?
...Actually that was a horrible metaphor. Oh well, it's out there now...
On the FPS front, there's not a whole lot they could do other than try to do a better job at courting 3rd party developers. On the RPG front, however, they were sitting on 2 highly acclaimed RPGs - Xenoblade & Last Story - that Nintendo published in Japan and is only just now releasing in the US. Although it's great that we're getting them eventually, if they had released them in the US soon after their initial Japanese releases in 2010 & 2011 when the Wii was still going strong that might have encouraged other RPG localizers to bring over stuff like Earth Seeker & Tales of Graces after seeing Xenoblade & Last Story's success.
I don't blame NOA when it comes to Tales of Graces. Namco's just weird when it comes to localizing Tales games.
Oh, I don't blame NOA directly when it comes to something like Tales of Graces - I'm just saying that if they had shown a little initiative, it might have encouraged other developers to follow suit. And in that particular game's case, it turned out for the better since we ended up getting the enhanced PS3 version in the end (which personally, I've been enjoying more than Xenoblade although they're both great games).
I mean, I understand why Nintendo cancelled something like Fatal Frame 4 since although that would have garnered them some hardcore gamer cred, it's unlikely it would have been anything but a sales disaster (much like Sin & Punishment 2 was). However to not bringing over 2 big RPGs that they owned the rights to (both of which have some name recognition, Xeno- in the one case, and Final Fantasy creator in the other) until pressured was pretty ridiculous - it's not like we're back in the 16-bit era when RPGs were still niche.
I want to give you the RPG front, but I don't think we'll honestly ever know. My gut says that even if Xenoblade and Last Story came out earlier, they very likely wouldn't have set the world on fire, much less convince others to follow suit. And now we have the issue of Xenoblade coming in so late that a likely not-insignificant chunk of potential sales simply imported it. The best thing that can be done is to look at its current sales and sorta "pull a VGCharts" and guesstimate. Still though, even though I love the game and it's clear it'll be a cult hit, I can't say I think it would have sold gangbusters and been like a beacon for others. But like I said, we'll never really know now.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
0
Options
ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Don't forget part of the reason for the dearth of "deep" third-party Wii games is that Nintendo didn't reveal the Wii's motion control until the E3 before it released. Third parties completely ignored it until then, went ape after the reveal -- and had no time to develop anything besides minigame fests and such for the launch window. By the time most of them did have time to do something deeper the system was already pidgeonholed as the casualware machine.
This is why we're hearing about Wii U stuff so early.
Ok, so the Wii didn't have much in the way of "real games" like RPG's and FPS's and such.
My questions is... how is this ultimately Nintendo's fault?
This sounds like that age old problem Nintendo consoles have always had: 3rd parties. There's nothing stopping them from releasing FPS's on the Wii. I'm pretty sure Miyamoto isn't standing at the gates with his Master sword in hand screaming "No eff pee ess uus!". So why is it Nintendo's fault there aren't any on the system? It's the 3rd parties with their heads up their ass and choosing to support the iPhone over the Wii with shit. The only active denial of a game I remember was Xenoblade, which Nintendo refused to let 3rd parties localize. But for all anybody knows, maybe they were always planning on bringing it over anyways at that point, and were just trying some stupid plot that horribly backfired on them.
So again, how is that their fault? Or is it because they're not like Sony and MS and not spreading their legs wide enough so the 3rd parties can penetrate easier?
...Actually that was a horrible metaphor. Oh well, it's out there now...
On the FPS front, there's not a whole lot they could do other than try to do a better job at courting 3rd party developers. On the RPG front, however, they were sitting on 2 highly acclaimed RPGs - Xenoblade & Last Story - that Nintendo published in Japan and is only just now releasing in the US. Although it's great that we're getting them eventually, if they had released them in the US soon after their initial Japanese releases in 2010 & 2011 when the Wii was still going strong that might have encouraged other RPG localizers to bring over stuff like Earth Seeker & Tales of Graces after seeing Xenoblade & Last Story's success.
I don't blame NOA when it comes to Tales of Graces. Namco's just weird when it comes to localizing Tales games.
Oh, I don't blame NOA directly when it comes to something like Tales of Graces - I'm just saying that if they had shown a little initiative, it might have encouraged other developers to follow suit. And in that particular game's case, it turned out for the better since we ended up getting the enhanced PS3 version in the end (which personally, I've been enjoying more than Xenoblade although they're both great games).
I mean, I understand why Nintendo cancelled something like Fatal Frame 4 since although that would have garnered them some hardcore gamer cred, it's unlikely it would have been anything but a sales disaster (much like Sin & Punishment 2 was). However to not bringing over 2 big RPGs that they owned the rights to (both of which have some name recognition, Xeno- in the one case, and Final Fantasy creator in the other) until pressured was pretty ridiculous - it's not like we're back in the 16-bit era when RPGs were still niche.
I want to give you the RPG front, but I don't think we'll honestly ever know. My gut says that even if Xenoblade and Last Story came out earlier, they very likely wouldn't have set the world on fire, much less convince others to follow suit. And now we have the issue of Xenoblade coming in so late that a likely not-insignificant chunk of potential sales simply imported it. The best thing that can be done is to look at its current sales and sorta "pull a VGCharts" and guesstimate. Still though, even though I love the game and it's clear it'll be a cult hit, I can't say I think it would have sold gangbusters and been like a beacon for others. But like I said, we'll never really know now.
I don't know about Last Story, but Xenoblade is the most Western style JRPG I've ever played. I have no doubt that if it was given a fair shake (released in the height of the system's popularity with a decent marketing campaign) that it could have been a huge hit and sold in the 500k-1mil range in North America.
Lost Odyssey did over 500k in the US with a massive ad campaign. Xenoblade back in 2008-9 might have been able to under similar circumstances (I doubt Nintendo would go all out like that, but maybe.)
Xenoblade is also both hurt and helped by the reputation of Xenosaga. XS1 was the surprise JRPG breakout sales hit of last gen in the US and is the single reason why they made two more of those games after a semi lackluster Japanese launch. XS2 and 3 however did not shall we say meet sales goals.
Posts
I would say however, that FPS also usually showcase high-end graphics. In that regard, the Wii could never win.
Actually that part is simply selling digital download codes in retail stores, you'll still be able to buy all their games on the digital store and bypass all that.
The retail part of it is a step further than their competitors, right? Can you buy games for download on PSN in stores?
I swear they promised this (PSN stuff), but honestly I haven't seen it. Maybe I haven't been looking hard enough though (and I rarely go to GameStop anymore so *shrug*)
Yes
http://www.gamestop.com/browse/games/playstation-3?nav=138d-51-ffff2418
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Chocobo Dungeon Wii
Super Paper Mario
Tales of Symphonia 2
Phantom Brave
Sakura Wars 5
Oopoona
Arc Rise Fantasia
Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn
Shiren the Wanderer
Final Fantasy Echoes of Time
Crystal Bearers is debatable. It's more of an action game to me while Super Paper Mario is clearly an RPG with a lot of action in it.
With the 360 you have
Enchanted Arms
Rusty Bell
Infinite Undiscovery
Lost Odyssey
Blue Dragon
Star Ocean 4
Nier (debatable)
Tales of Vesperia
FF XIII
FF XIII-2
The PS3 has most of those plus Disgaea 3 and 4 and VC. I'm missing a bunch of stuff I never got around to playing, but its not quite as bad as FPS where its basically, COD ports, Conduit, Goldeneye.
Don't forget Rune Factory: Frontier. Everyone forgets Rune Factory: Frontier.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Wii's US JRPG lineup pre Xenoblade:
Super Paper Mario (85.17%)
Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn (78.48%)
Chocobo Dungeon Wii (76.23%)
Shiren the Wanderer (73.52%)
Tales of Symphonia (70.47%)
360 JRPG lineup before 2012:
Tales of Vesperia (81.64%) - Xbox 360 exclusive
FF XIII (81.58%)
Rusty Bell (80.32%)
Lost Odyssey (79.79%) - Xbox 360 exclusive
Blue Dragon (77.48%) - Xbox 360 exclusive
Resonance of Fate (74.70%)
Star Ocean 4 (74.63%)
Enchanted Arms (72.08%)
PS3 also has:
Valkyria Chronicles (87.36%)
Disgaea 4 (82.53%)
Disgaea 3 (81.10%)
Folklore (76.9%)
Atelier Totori (77.65%)
Atelier Rorona (70.48%)
So the gap isn't as wide as I thought at first since I forgot Super Paper Mario (so disappointed by it) and Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn (which I wouldn't mind playing but have never seen it for less than $50). But the important thing is that the Wii had basically no non-JRPG RPGs whereas the 360 & PS3 had stuff like the Mass Effect series, Dragon Age, Fallout 3, Dark/Demon's Souls, etc. Although none of the current set of game consoles has a great JRPG lineup, the 360 and PS3 both have great RPG lineups in general.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
That's right, Rune Factory Tides of Destiny. I thought we were talking pre-Japan/Europe Xenoblade release.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
There is a lot of te games press that remain convinced Nintendo cannot get it "right" any more, despite the many changes they made with the 3DS and have announced for the future. It'd probably take some time of Nintendo "doing it right" before the story of them "not getting it" is ever dropped. It's too easy a story to keep writing.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if we get more details on the WiiU at E3 - System price, an exact launch date, some of the exclusive games that will come out at or near launch.
My personal guess is that the WiiU is going to be another Gamecube - a solid contender but not the market leader.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
They're also apparently not announcing a release date. Though if it's like every other Nintendo console, my bet would be sometime in November.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
totally random speculation; but I wonder if the delay of Darksiders 2 had anything to do with the launch of the WiiU. They touted it as one of their launch titles; could the WiiU be ready in August; I wonder?
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Twitter
They're available for the other guys, but the very, very interesting part is that they're allowed to set their own prices. So it's possible for the retailers to have their own sales, just like they do for physical games. The retailers should love that, and it might be better for consumers assuming the stores are still as sale-happy then as they are now.
My questions is... how is this ultimately Nintendo's fault?
This sounds like that age old problem Nintendo consoles have always had: 3rd parties. There's nothing stopping them from releasing FPS's on the Wii. I'm pretty sure Miyamoto isn't standing at the gates with his Master sword in hand screaming "No eff pee ess uus!". So why is it Nintendo's fault there aren't any on the system? It's the 3rd parties with their heads up their ass and choosing to support the iPhone over the Wii with shit. The only active denial of a game I remember was Xenoblade, which Nintendo refused to let 3rd parties localize. But for all anybody knows, maybe they were always planning on bringing it over anyways at that point, and were just trying some stupid plot that horribly backfired on them.
So again, how is that their fault? Or is it because they're not like Sony and MS and not spreading their legs wide enough so the 3rd parties can penetrate easier?
...Actually that was a horrible metaphor. Oh well, it's out there now...
Instead they made games for the HD consoles and then all got fired anyway.
I mean don't get me wrong, they're not completely blameless. It does take two to tango, and Nintendo can be a pretty poor dance partner.
But if I'm cocking my hand to slap somebody over the lack of shooting dudes on my Wii, I'd sooner aim it for say CliffyB than Mr. Iwata.
They're certainly not having any problems on the handheld front.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Not according to Epic.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
On the FPS front, there's not a whole lot they could do other than try to do a better job at courting 3rd party developers. On the RPG front, however, they were sitting on 2 highly acclaimed RPGs - Xenoblade & Last Story - that Nintendo published in Japan and is only just now releasing in the US. Although it's great that we're getting them eventually, if they had released them in the US soon after their initial Japanese releases in 2010 & 2011 when the Wii was still going strong that might have encouraged other RPG localizers to bring over stuff like Earth Seeker & Tales of Graces after seeing Xenoblade & Last Story's success.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
I don't blame NOA when it comes to Tales of Graces. Namco's just weird when it comes to localizing Tales games.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Oh, I don't blame NOA directly when it comes to something like Tales of Graces - I'm just saying that if they had shown a little initiative, it might have encouraged other developers to follow suit. And in that particular game's case, it turned out for the better since we ended up getting the enhanced PS3 version in the end (which personally, I've been enjoying more than Xenoblade although they're both great games).
I mean, I understand why Nintendo cancelled something like Fatal Frame 4 since although that would have garnered them some hardcore gamer cred, it's unlikely it would have been anything but a sales disaster (much like Sin & Punishment 2 was). However to not bringing over 2 big RPGs that they owned the rights to (both of which have some name recognition, Xeno- in the one case, and Final Fantasy creator in the other) until pressured was pretty ridiculous - it's not like we're back in the 16-bit era when RPGs were still niche.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
I completely agree. Sometimes I wonder what they're thinking. It's also not like they weren't already translated.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
But I guess it's better to hold the game hostage.
Twitter
I'm surprised Tecmo didn't just publish it.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Them localizing Sin & Punishment 2 still surprises me, as they must have known that it was going to flop pretty hard. Personally, I'm glad they did...I love that game.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
From what I understand, Sin & Punishment 1 sold surprisingly well on the Wii VC which is why they brought over the sequel. Unfortunately, they didn't realize that part of the reason why S&P1 sold so well was because it was a cheap download title. If S&P2 had been a $10-$20 WiiWare title, I think it would have done much better.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
I want to give you the RPG front, but I don't think we'll honestly ever know. My gut says that even if Xenoblade and Last Story came out earlier, they very likely wouldn't have set the world on fire, much less convince others to follow suit. And now we have the issue of Xenoblade coming in so late that a likely not-insignificant chunk of potential sales simply imported it. The best thing that can be done is to look at its current sales and sorta "pull a VGCharts" and guesstimate. Still though, even though I love the game and it's clear it'll be a cult hit, I can't say I think it would have sold gangbusters and been like a beacon for others. But like I said, we'll never really know now.
Eternal Sonata...
Also Oopoona is maybe the most underrated RPG of the generation. Fantastically odd game with a god like soundtrack.
This is why we're hearing about Wii U stuff so early.
I don't know about Last Story, but Xenoblade is the most Western style JRPG I've ever played. I have no doubt that if it was given a fair shake (released in the height of the system's popularity with a decent marketing campaign) that it could have been a huge hit and sold in the 500k-1mil range in North America.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Oh, I didn't realize we were talking about JRPGs in the US using their Japanese names..
Thanks. I feel like an idiot while also feeling vindicated. :P
Xenoblade is also both hurt and helped by the reputation of Xenosaga. XS1 was the surprise JRPG breakout sales hit of last gen in the US and is the single reason why they made two more of those games after a semi lackluster Japanese launch. XS2 and 3 however did not shall we say meet sales goals.