The Wii "situation" with any of the Unreal Engines basically came down to the engine requirements of industry standard programmable shaders versus Nintendos use of efficient, but proprietary TEV units.
That particular scenario is not going to happen again, but they might still make rather heavy use of fixed function shaders which would require some engine optimisations to be taken full advantage of.
Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.
The Wii "situation" with any of the Unreal Engines basically came down to the engine requirements of industry standard programmable shaders versus Nintendos use of efficient, but proprietary TEV units.
That particular scenario is not going to happen again, but they might still make rather heavy use of fixed function shaders which would require some engine optimisations to be taken full advantage of.
If the 3DS is any indication of the direction Nintendo is choosing to go, they'll do just that. That's the exact reason UE3 isn't currently on the 3DS - it heavily uses fixed function shaders.
With the 3DS vs the Wii, however, it is possible to get UE3 running on the thing. It just needs to be a very customized version.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Meh, I'm sure with some adjustments it could work fine. But then, Epic really don't care to work with it, and that's their thing.
how are you sure? What do you base this on?
How are you sure that there couldn't be adjustments to make it work on the Wii? What do you base that on?
The Wii doesn't have the physical hardware required.
Not as is, but the engine itself could be tweaked.
And if you squint real hard, that dog is a cat.
I'm just presenting what ifs. No need to be a jerk about it.
I'm not being a jerk about it, I'm trying to explain it as matter of factly as possible. What makes the UE3 engine what it is, is programmable shader support. That was a big reason the UE3 engine was so impressive at the start of the generation, it's a big reason why it's so widely used. Programmable shader functionality is what UE3 is meant to bring to the table. Saying, "well they could just take that out" really misses the point.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Meh, I'm sure with some adjustments it could work fine. But then, Epic really don't care to work with it, and that's their thing.
how are you sure? What do you base this on?
How are you sure that there couldn't be adjustments to make it work on the Wii? What do you base that on?
The Wii doesn't have the physical hardware required.
Not as is, but the engine itself could be tweaked.
And if you squint real hard, that dog is a cat.
I'm just presenting what ifs. No need to be a jerk about it.
I'm not being a jerk about it, I'm trying to explain it as matter of factly as possible. What makes the UE3 engine what it is, is programmable shader support. That was a big reason the UE3 engine was so impressive at the start of the generation, it's a big reason why it's so widely used. Programmable shader functionality is what UE3 is meant to bring to the table. Saying, "well they could just take that out" really misses the point.
No, you were fine. I was talking to ReVerse.
I presented possibilities, and you answered them. I'm good with that, it's actual discussion, and I enjoy discussion. I don't claim to know all the technical aspects of different engines, and enjoy hearing from people who do.
Meh, I'm sure with some adjustments it could work fine. But then, Epic really don't care to work with it, and that's their thing.
how are you sure? What do you base this on?
How are you sure that there couldn't be adjustments to make it work on the Wii? What do you base that on?
The Wii doesn't have the physical hardware required.
Not as is, but the engine itself could be tweaked.
And if you squint real hard, that dog is a cat.
I'm just presenting what ifs. No need to be a jerk about it.
I'm not being a jerk about it, I'm trying to explain it as matter of factly as possible. What makes the UE3 engine what it is, is programmable shader support. That was a big reason the UE3 engine was so impressive at the start of the generation, it's a big reason why it's so widely used. Programmable shader functionality is what UE3 is meant to bring to the table. Saying, "well they could just take that out" really misses the point.
No, you were fine. I was talking to ReVerse.
Well in any case, do you get my point about how integral shader support is to UE3? When you step back and really look at the leap from last gen to current gen, shaders are the difference. They're pretty much what has separated this and the last generation graphically. And UE3 is built primarily to provide a graphics engine revolving around that difference.
Meh, I'm sure with some adjustments it could work fine. But then, Epic really don't care to work with it, and that's their thing.
Epic did not feel there was sufficient enough gain to make the adjustments. In that developers using their engine would not want to develop for the platform.
Epic has always been MOAR GRAPHICS! Nintendo has always not. If UE4 requires a significant spec jump, they won't port it back to PS3/360, they'll wait until platform holders catch up to them. Where the Wii U fits into that is up to Nintendo. Remember Epic began as a PC engine developer. Constant spec jumps are their bread-and-butter. It's an ongoing war between them and Crytek.
IPhone's been supported since the 3GS, which was the first to support significant shaders due to its' Power VR GPU. Android wasn't supported until Honeycomb, which included hardware acceleration and the dev recommends NVidia's Tegra 2 devices, which all feature pixel and vertex shaders.
This is the key point:
"There's nothing against Nintendo. I hate that people somehow think that's the case," he said. "If we felt it could run [Unreal Engine] and deliver the kind of experience people license our technology to build, we'd be on [the 3DS]."
Demos like Samaritian show that Epic will continue to chase the high-spec, because they believe that's what developers want from them. Something like Unity has taken the mid-to-low range. Unity's devs expressed interest in allowing the engine to work on 3DS, but nothing's been said on that since October 2010, so there must be some problem there. (EDIT: TSR explains the problem there)
I know this is old news, but I'm going to miss Molyneux. He was genuinely enthusiastic about innovation, even if he didn't always succeed. Plus, the Fable games always had a lot of heart to them, even if they weren't super smooth or polished.
He's not left the games industry, and if anything, what happens next will likely be More Molyneux Than Molyneux. As in, he left Lionhead because he felt too safe and protected there, and he's gone to a new company to take some big risks.
Well, I'll eargerly await that, but Fable without Molyneux is going to be really weird.
That was part of the problem. Molyneux created multiple IPs in his pre-Microsoft days. Yet he became the Fable guy with Microsoft.
He needed to be let free. Now he'll either come up with some interesting new games or fade away into the list of old devs that no longer do anything interesting. Or something else of course. No reason for me to give him only two options for his future!
I know this is old news, but I'm going to miss Molyneux. He was genuinely enthusiastic about innovation, even if he didn't always succeed. Plus, the Fable games always had a lot of heart to them, even if they weren't super smooth or polished.
He's not left the games industry, and if anything, what happens next will likely be More Molyneux Than Molyneux. As in, he left Lionhead because he felt too safe and protected there, and he's gone to a new company to take some big risks.
Well, I'll eargerly await that, but Fable without Molyneux is going to be really weird.
That was part of the problem. Molyneux created multiple IPs in his pre-Microsoft days. Yet he became the Fable guy with Microsoft.
He needed to be let free. Now he'll either come up with some interesting new games or fade away into the list of old devs that no longer do anything interesting. Or something else of course. No reason for me to give him only two options for his future!
My primary experience with Molyneux pre-fable was weak saturn port of Magic Carpet. I guess that's why I never saw him as this super huge genius that everyone else sees him as. It sort of tainted my view of him from the beginning, a bad first impression sort of deal.
I don't think it matters if WiiU can handle UE4 or not.
So WiiU launches, slightly ahead of current gen consoles in power and also supports UE4. The multiplatform games start rolling out in the first year.
Who is going to buy these games on this new system with a small install base, only slightly better graphics (in the eyes of laymen who are used to PC games looking even better by now), and your gamerscore and 360 friend list doesn't follow you?
When the games don't sell, who expects the third parties to give a fledgling system a chance vs. saying "well, guess that market's not there again?"
As usual, WiiU sells on its exclusives and unique features. UE4 wouldn't convince anyone anyway.
I don't think it matters if WiiU can handle UE4 or not.
So WiiU launches, slightly ahead of current gen consoles in power and also supports UE4. The multiplatform games start rolling out in the first year.
Who is going to buy these games on this new system with a small install base, only slightly better graphics (in the eyes of laymen who are used to PC games looking even better by now), and your gamerscore and 360 friend list doesn't follow you?
When the games don't sell, who expects the third parties to give a fledgling system a chance vs. saying "well, guess that market's not there again?"
As usual, WiiU sells on its exclusives and unique features. UE4 wouldn't convince anyone anyway.
Spork speaks the truth.
The Wii U launch is going to be really odd. Luckily, Nintendo is Nintendo. Mario > Zelda > Mario Kart > Metroid > etc > etc
I know this is old news, but I'm going to miss Molyneux. He was genuinely enthusiastic about innovation, even if he didn't always succeed. Plus, the Fable games always had a lot of heart to them, even if they weren't super smooth or polished.
He's not left the games industry, and if anything, what happens next will likely be More Molyneux Than Molyneux. As in, he left Lionhead because he felt too safe and protected there, and he's gone to a new company to take some big risks.
Well, I'll eargerly await that, but Fable without Molyneux is going to be really weird.
That was part of the problem. Molyneux created multiple IPs in his pre-Microsoft days. Yet he became the Fable guy with Microsoft.
He needed to be let free. Now he'll either come up with some interesting new games or fade away into the list of old devs that no longer do anything interesting. Or something else of course. No reason for me to give him only two options for his future!
My primary experience with Molyneux pre-fable was weak saturn port of Magic Carpet. I guess that's why I never saw him as this super huge genius that everyone else sees him as. It sort of tainted my view of him from the beginning, a bad first impression sort of deal.
Sure, if you weren't a PC player then I can understand that. Bullfrog made some really fun games that were ported, to various success, to consoles.
I really want to see if he can still make a strategy/sim game.
I don't think it matters if WiiU can handle UE4 or not.
So WiiU launches, slightly ahead of current gen consoles in power and also supports UE4. The multiplatform games start rolling out in the first year.
Who is going to buy these games on this new system with a small install base, only slightly better graphics (in the eyes of laymen who are used to PC games looking even better by now), and your gamerscore and 360 friend list doesn't follow you?
When the games don't sell, who expects the third parties to give a fledgling system a chance vs. saying "well, guess that market's not there again?"
As usual, WiiU sells on its exclusives and unique features. UE4 wouldn't convince anyone anyway.
I want Nintendo to announce some sort of achievement/trophy system. Levels the playing field and there are plenty of sites that let people epeen by uploading their profiles from all the systems.
This E3 will be most exciting to me if Sony and Microsoft stick to not announcing new consoles. We'll get to see how the WiiU launches with no new competition on the horizon.
I know this is old news, but I'm going to miss Molyneux. He was genuinely enthusiastic about innovation, even if he didn't always succeed. Plus, the Fable games always had a lot of heart to them, even if they weren't super smooth or polished.
He's not left the games industry, and if anything, what happens next will likely be More Molyneux Than Molyneux. As in, he left Lionhead because he felt too safe and protected there, and he's gone to a new company to take some big risks.
Well, I'll eargerly await that, but Fable without Molyneux is going to be really weird.
That was part of the problem. Molyneux created multiple IPs in his pre-Microsoft days. Yet he became the Fable guy with Microsoft.
He needed to be let free. Now he'll either come up with some interesting new games or fade away into the list of old devs that no longer do anything interesting. Or something else of course. No reason for me to give him only two options for his future!
My primary experience with Molyneux pre-fable was weak saturn port of Magic Carpet. I guess that's why I never saw him as this super huge genius that everyone else sees him as. It sort of tainted my view of him from the beginning, a bad first impression sort of deal.
Sure, if you weren't a PC player then I can understand that. Bullfrog made some really fun games that were ported, to various success, to consoles.
I really want to see if he can still make a strategy/sim game.
Molyneux was the brains behind Black & White, wasn't he? God I loved Black & White 2. Funniest thing ever: Had a pretty prosperous city going, Japanese armies were massing just beyond my gate, "I'll show them" pick up a large boulder and try to arc it over my gate/wall at them, obliterate the gate and a large portion of wall, massive army begins flooding my city. Aw damn... my bad.
His new studio is going to focus on social games/Smartphone stuff though, right? That's less than exciting.
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
I don't think it matters if WiiU can handle UE4 or not.
So WiiU launches, slightly ahead of current gen consoles in power and also supports UE4. The multiplatform games start rolling out in the first year.
Who is going to buy these games on this new system with a small install base, only slightly better graphics (in the eyes of laymen who are used to PC games looking even better by now), and your gamerscore and 360 friend list doesn't follow you?
When the games don't sell, who expects the third parties to give a fledgling system a chance vs. saying "well, guess that market's not there again?"
As usual, WiiU sells on its exclusives and unique features. UE4 wouldn't convince anyone anyway.
I don't see that model playing out as well for Nintendo this upcoming generation as it has in the past. To me, it sounds like an even worse Gamecube situation, where they're going to appear to be the odd man out. Only, at least the gamecube was on par or better than its contemporaries with regard to tech, and had renderware (the primary engine of those days). The Wii was able to live off of its unique gimmick that drew people in, but I don't see their tablet controller doing the same, especially if Microsoft or Sony imitates them. At that point, they just become an uglier, less supported version of the other consoles. Nintendo will always have their properties to keep them relevant, but those characters alone did not make them a smash success during the N64 and GCN days. 3rd party support is vital to a console maker, whether nintendo wants to acknowledge it or not. HD development drives game making costs through the roof - will Nintendo's games be able to withstand the rise in costs if not offset by some good third party licensing fees?
I know this is old news, but I'm going to miss Molyneux. He was genuinely enthusiastic about innovation, even if he didn't always succeed. Plus, the Fable games always had a lot of heart to them, even if they weren't super smooth or polished.
He's not left the games industry, and if anything, what happens next will likely be More Molyneux Than Molyneux. As in, he left Lionhead because he felt too safe and protected there, and he's gone to a new company to take some big risks.
Well, I'll eargerly await that, but Fable without Molyneux is going to be really weird.
That was part of the problem. Molyneux created multiple IPs in his pre-Microsoft days. Yet he became the Fable guy with Microsoft.
He needed to be let free. Now he'll either come up with some interesting new games or fade away into the list of old devs that no longer do anything interesting. Or something else of course. No reason for me to give him only two options for his future!
My primary experience with Molyneux pre-fable was weak saturn port of Magic Carpet. I guess that's why I never saw him as this super huge genius that everyone else sees him as. It sort of tainted my view of him from the beginning, a bad first impression sort of deal.
Sure, if you weren't a PC player then I can understand that. Bullfrog made some really fun games that were ported, to various success, to consoles.
I really want to see if he can still make a strategy/sim game.
Molyneux was the brains behind Black & White, wasn't he? God I loved Black & White 2. Funniest thing ever: Had a pretty prosperous city going, Japanese armies were massing just beyond my gate, "I'll show them" pick up a large boulder and try to arc it over my gate/wall at them, obliterate the gate and a large portion of wall, massive army begins flooding my city. Aw damn... my bad.
His new studio is going to focus on social games/Smartphone stuff though, right? That's less than exciting.
I've not seen any mention of them working on social or smartphone games, but I may have missed that.
Whether UE4 runs on any hardware or not is ultimately up to Epic. Epic's business is to push its engines and make them the premier solution for development across as many platforms as possible, without devaluing their brand.
Should UE4 run on the WiiU? Perhaps, if it ends up an extremely popular console. Maybe Epic should look at what Crytek did, and release a new or separate engine that is designed to utilize the hardware available.
Likely they won't. Their business is in being the first guy to the party as new technology develops, and new tech is less likely to develop unless they help convince the industry that it is worth working on.
It's not like they outright stated that it doesn't work on Wii U.
Also it might not even matter for sometime, I really don't expect any UE4 games for three years at least. By that point Nintendo will have already made their own bed.
3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
My first game by Molyneux was Populous...it's too bad very little of what he did after that was anywhere near as awesome.
Re: WiiU - yea, as much as Nintendo wants to fight it, I feel the company will always sell based on their own properties, and third parties probably won't ever get a hold on them. It don't matter, I know the reason I buy a Nintendo system is for their properties, and I usually have my secondary system for the other stuff.
Next Gen will probably end up being a WiiU only generation for me, but that is due to current financial situations and time rather than anything else.
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited May 2012
To be honest, I would be more than happy for anyone else to step up to the middleware engine plate. UE3 is kind of crappy, but everyone uses it because it's easy and easily portable (at least across PS3/360/PC) and cheaper than developing their own engine.
Edit: As for Molyneux, I have yet to forgive him for Black & White.
To be honest, I would be more than happy for anyone else to step up to the middleware engine plate. UE3 is kind of crappy, but everyone uses it because it's easy and easily portable (at least across PS3/360) and cheaper than developing their own engine.
What's "crappy" about it, can I ask? Because I know it gets labelled as the "hurr brown big bald men" engine, but those things aren't the engine, they're the developers who use it. It can do a whole bunch of other things.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
To be honest, I would be more than happy for anyone else to step up to the middleware engine plate. UE3 is kind of crappy, but everyone uses it because it's easy and easily portable (at least across PS3/360) and cheaper than developing their own engine.
What's "crappy" about it, can I ask? Because I know it gets labelled as the "hurr brown big bald men" engine, but those things aren't the engine, they're the developers who use it. It can do a whole bunch of other things.
Texture popping, muddy shadows, and a number of other weird graphical quirks that are easily spotted in any UE3 game (see Mass Effect 1 for an extreme example)
Keep in mind that those Dark Souls figures are just for the US & Europe. Worldwide sales would be higher since it doesn't include Japan (From Software self published there).
To be honest, I would be more than happy for anyone else to step up to the middleware engine plate. UE3 is kind of crappy, but everyone uses it because it's easy and easily portable (at least across PS3/360) and cheaper than developing their own engine.
What's "crappy" about it, can I ask? Because I know it gets labelled as the "hurr brown big bald men" engine, but those things aren't the engine, they're the developers who use it. It can do a whole bunch of other things.
Texture popping, muddy shadows, and a number of other weird graphical quirks that are easily spotted in any UE3 game (see Mass Effect 1 for an extreme example)
Texture popping is a feature of the engine so you don't have to wait through a longer loading screen before textures are loaded. They load on the fly as necessary.
ME1 is a terrible example by the way. The engine has come a long way in the last 5 years.
The stock of both leading Japanese mobile social game companies dropped over 20 percent today following comments from Japan's Consumer Affairs Agency that a key game mechanic is in violation of the law. Other Japanese game companies that use the mechanic, including Konami and Capcom, also saw significant stock declines. Gree's founder, Yoshikazu Tanaka, lost over $700 million yesterday because of Gree's 23 percent plunge in stock value.
The game mechanic in question is known as "kompu gacha" (complete gacha). Gacha is a game mechanic based on the coin-operated toy vending machines you find everywhere in Japan; it's essentially a lottery spin to get a virtual item. Nearly every game from DeNA and Gree use the "gacha" mechanic, as do games like PopCap's Bejeweled Blitz. With the "complete gacha" players who want to get a special/rare item must get a set of other items through gacha first. For instance, the user must first get item A through gacha, then item B (also through gacha), then C and D - and only if they can get items A-D (complete gacha) do they get the rare item.
To be honest, I would be more than happy for anyone else to step up to the middleware engine plate. UE3 is kind of crappy, but everyone uses it because it's easy and easily portable (at least across PS3/360) and cheaper than developing their own engine.
What's "crappy" about it, can I ask? Because I know it gets labelled as the "hurr brown big bald men" engine, but those things aren't the engine, they're the developers who use it. It can do a whole bunch of other things.
Texture popping, muddy shadows, and a number of other weird graphical quirks that are easily spotted in any UE3 game (see Mass Effect 1 for an extreme example)
Texture popping is a feature of the engine so you don't have to wait through a longer loading screen before textures are loaded. They load on the fly as necessary.
ME1 is a terrible example by the way. The engine has come a long way in the last 5 years.
To be honest, I would be more than happy for anyone else to step up to the middleware engine plate. UE3 is kind of crappy, but everyone uses it because it's easy and easily portable (at least across PS3/360) and cheaper than developing their own engine.
What's "crappy" about it, can I ask? Because I know it gets labelled as the "hurr brown big bald men" engine, but those things aren't the engine, they're the developers who use it. It can do a whole bunch of other things.
Texture popping, muddy shadows, and a number of other weird graphical quirks that are easily spotted in any UE3 game (see Mass Effect 1 for an extreme example)
Texture popping is a feature of the engine so you don't have to wait through a longer loading screen before textures are loaded. They load on the fly as necessary.
ME1 is a terrible example by the way. The engine has come a long way in the last 5 years.
I'll take longer loading times over the incredibly immersion-breaking texture popping any day.
Next Gen will probably end up being a WiiU only generation for me, but that is due to current financial situations and time rather than anything else.
I think that may be true for our house as well (along with 3DSs) - if we even do that. I have a PS3 currently and I really don't see what the next gen would offer me that I would care that much about when I have such a large backlog already. I almost skipped this generation of systems and just stuck with my PS2 but when I went HD I wanted a console to go with it (a 360 which I got rid of recently).
If the next gen is just the current with better graphics I think we'll skip and just play what we have. I wonder how many households are in the same boat.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
corin7 there are rumours that dark souls pc is locked at 30fps
To be honest, I would be more than happy for anyone else to step up to the middleware engine plate. UE3 is kind of crappy, but everyone uses it because it's easy and easily portable (at least across PS3/360) and cheaper than developing their own engine.
What's "crappy" about it, can I ask? Because I know it gets labelled as the "hurr brown big bald men" engine, but those things aren't the engine, they're the developers who use it. It can do a whole bunch of other things.
Texture popping, muddy shadows, and a number of other weird graphical quirks that are easily spotted in any UE3 game (see Mass Effect 1 for an extreme example)
Texture popping is a feature of the engine so you don't have to wait through a longer loading screen before textures are loaded. They load on the fly as necessary.
ME1 is a terrible example by the way. The engine has come a long way in the last 5 years.
To be fair, he did say extreme.
He did... but comparing the graphical capabilities of an engine at the start of a console generation to it's capabilities at the end of the generation isn't exactly productive.
You wouldn't compare the graphical quality of ICO to Shadow of the Colossus. It's not a fair comparison. Same thing here.
To be honest, I would be more than happy for anyone else to step up to the middleware engine plate. UE3 is kind of crappy, but everyone uses it because it's easy and easily portable (at least across PS3/360) and cheaper than developing their own engine.
What's "crappy" about it, can I ask? Because I know it gets labelled as the "hurr brown big bald men" engine, but those things aren't the engine, they're the developers who use it. It can do a whole bunch of other things.
Texture popping, muddy shadows, and a number of other weird graphical quirks that are easily spotted in any UE3 game (see Mass Effect 1 for an extreme example)
Texture popping is a feature of the engine so you don't have to wait through a longer loading screen before textures are loaded. They load on the fly as necessary.
ME1 is a terrible example by the way. The engine has come a long way in the last 5 years.
I'll take longer loading times over the incredibly immersion-breaking texture popping any day.
And more load screens? UE3 is highly efficient in that it doesn't load all the textures for an entire level. Beyond a certain range, meshes and materials are compressed into a flat image which then loads them as you approach.
Without that texture popping, the game would have to stop and load so often it would be beyond annoying.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Next Gen will probably end up being a WiiU only generation for me, but that is due to current financial situations and time rather than anything else.
I think that may be true for our house as well (along with 3DSs) - if we even do that. I have a PS3 currently and I really don't see what the next gen would offer me that I would care that much about when I have such a large backlog already. I almost skipped this generation of systems and just stuck with my PS2 but when I went HD I wanted a console to go with it (a 360 which I got rid of recently).
If the next gen is just the current with better graphics I think we'll skip and just play what we have. I wonder how many households are in the same boat.
Yea, I have so many games that I just don't have the time to play them. I even recently offloaded my 360 since I just didn't have the time. So now I only have the Wii and PS3 as my main consoles, plus my 3DS for portability. I'm good with that.
The WiiU will be my next gen purchase and that'll be it. Not to mention that money has gotten a lot tighter since last year.
corin7 there are rumours that dark souls pc is locked at 30fps
That rumor was started because people took something in an interview wildly out of context.
And even if true 30 is better than 10. Also mods etc. I have no doubt I will be playing me some Dark Souls at 1080p 60fps by the end of the year and it will be glorious.
I don't think it matters if WiiU can handle UE4 or not.
So WiiU launches, slightly ahead of current gen consoles in power and also supports UE4. The multiplatform games start rolling out in the first year.
Who is going to buy these games on this new system with a small install base, only slightly better graphics (in the eyes of laymen who are used to PC games looking even better by now), and your gamerscore and 360 friend list doesn't follow you?
When the games don't sell, who expects the third parties to give a fledgling system a chance vs. saying "well, guess that market's not there again?"
As usual, WiiU sells on its exclusives and unique features. UE4 wouldn't convince anyone anyway.
I want Nintendo to announce some sort of achievement/trophy system. Levels the playing field and there are plenty of sites that let people epeen by uploading their profiles from all the systems.
I want an achievement system that apes the trophies from Smash Bros. Give me a virtual shelf I can scroll along, game by game, with all my little figurines available to view. Collecting .jpegs is a lot of fun, but this would be even better.
Back from vacation. Did I miss anything interesting in the past week? Other than the Elder Scrolls MMO. I'm kinda surprised that concept took them that long.
Switch: 3947-4890-9293
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I know this is old news, but I'm going to miss Molyneux. He was genuinely enthusiastic about innovation, even if he didn't always succeed. Plus, the Fable games always had a lot of heart to them, even if they weren't super smooth or polished.
I'll hypothetically miss the Hypothetical Molyneux, who had great game ideas and loads of enthusiasm.
I'll definitely not miss Actual Molyneux, who was a living, breathing hype machine for ideas which he never delivered a fraction of despite big budgets. The industry is better off without that sort of personality, especially with all the horror stories out there of great development groups that deliver getting stomped on by publishers.
EDIT: And he'll jut blow a lot of smoke up some publisher's ass anyway and get a big budget somewhere else. It's not like Molyneux has taken some monastic vow to not make games any more.
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That particular scenario is not going to happen again, but they might still make rather heavy use of fixed function shaders which would require some engine optimisations to be taken full advantage of.
I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
If the 3DS is any indication of the direction Nintendo is choosing to go, they'll do just that. That's the exact reason UE3 isn't currently on the 3DS - it heavily uses fixed function shaders.
With the 3DS vs the Wii, however, it is possible to get UE3 running on the thing. It just needs to be a very customized version.
I'm just presenting what ifs. No need to be a jerk about it.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
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I'm not being a jerk about it, I'm trying to explain it as matter of factly as possible. What makes the UE3 engine what it is, is programmable shader support. That was a big reason the UE3 engine was so impressive at the start of the generation, it's a big reason why it's so widely used. Programmable shader functionality is what UE3 is meant to bring to the table. Saying, "well they could just take that out" really misses the point.
No, you were fine. I was talking to ReVerse.
I presented possibilities, and you answered them. I'm good with that, it's actual discussion, and I enjoy discussion. I don't claim to know all the technical aspects of different engines, and enjoy hearing from people who do.
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Well in any case, do you get my point about how integral shader support is to UE3? When you step back and really look at the leap from last gen to current gen, shaders are the difference. They're pretty much what has separated this and the last generation graphically. And UE3 is built primarily to provide a graphics engine revolving around that difference.
Epic did not feel there was sufficient enough gain to make the adjustments. In that developers using their engine would not want to develop for the platform.
Epic has always been MOAR GRAPHICS! Nintendo has always not. If UE4 requires a significant spec jump, they won't port it back to PS3/360, they'll wait until platform holders catch up to them. Where the Wii U fits into that is up to Nintendo. Remember Epic began as a PC engine developer. Constant spec jumps are their bread-and-butter. It's an ongoing war between them and Crytek.
IPhone's been supported since the 3GS, which was the first to support significant shaders due to its' Power VR GPU. Android wasn't supported until Honeycomb, which included hardware acceleration and the dev recommends NVidia's Tegra 2 devices, which all feature pixel and vertex shaders.
This is the key point:
Demos like Samaritian show that Epic will continue to chase the high-spec, because they believe that's what developers want from them. Something like Unity has taken the mid-to-low range. Unity's devs expressed interest in allowing the engine to work on 3DS, but nothing's been said on that since October 2010, so there must be some problem there. (EDIT: TSR explains the problem there)
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That was part of the problem. Molyneux created multiple IPs in his pre-Microsoft days. Yet he became the Fable guy with Microsoft.
He needed to be let free. Now he'll either come up with some interesting new games or fade away into the list of old devs that no longer do anything interesting. Or something else of course. No reason for me to give him only two options for his future!
My primary experience with Molyneux pre-fable was weak saturn port of Magic Carpet. I guess that's why I never saw him as this super huge genius that everyone else sees him as. It sort of tainted my view of him from the beginning, a bad first impression sort of deal.
So WiiU launches, slightly ahead of current gen consoles in power and also supports UE4. The multiplatform games start rolling out in the first year.
Who is going to buy these games on this new system with a small install base, only slightly better graphics (in the eyes of laymen who are used to PC games looking even better by now), and your gamerscore and 360 friend list doesn't follow you?
When the games don't sell, who expects the third parties to give a fledgling system a chance vs. saying "well, guess that market's not there again?"
As usual, WiiU sells on its exclusives and unique features. UE4 wouldn't convince anyone anyway.
Spork speaks the truth.
The Wii U launch is going to be really odd. Luckily, Nintendo is Nintendo. Mario > Zelda > Mario Kart > Metroid > etc > etc
All third-party stuff just broadens the library.
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Sure, if you weren't a PC player then I can understand that. Bullfrog made some really fun games that were ported, to various success, to consoles.
I really want to see if he can still make a strategy/sim game.
I want Nintendo to announce some sort of achievement/trophy system. Levels the playing field and there are plenty of sites that let people epeen by uploading their profiles from all the systems.
This E3 will be most exciting to me if Sony and Microsoft stick to not announcing new consoles. We'll get to see how the WiiU launches with no new competition on the horizon.
Molyneux was the brains behind Black & White, wasn't he? God I loved Black & White 2. Funniest thing ever: Had a pretty prosperous city going, Japanese armies were massing just beyond my gate, "I'll show them" pick up a large boulder and try to arc it over my gate/wall at them, obliterate the gate and a large portion of wall, massive army begins flooding my city. Aw damn... my bad.
His new studio is going to focus on social games/Smartphone stuff though, right? That's less than exciting.
So that's something.
At least I think they've got it working.
Don't ask me where I got that impression from.
I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
I don't see that model playing out as well for Nintendo this upcoming generation as it has in the past. To me, it sounds like an even worse Gamecube situation, where they're going to appear to be the odd man out. Only, at least the gamecube was on par or better than its contemporaries with regard to tech, and had renderware (the primary engine of those days). The Wii was able to live off of its unique gimmick that drew people in, but I don't see their tablet controller doing the same, especially if Microsoft or Sony imitates them. At that point, they just become an uglier, less supported version of the other consoles. Nintendo will always have their properties to keep them relevant, but those characters alone did not make them a smash success during the N64 and GCN days. 3rd party support is vital to a console maker, whether nintendo wants to acknowledge it or not. HD development drives game making costs through the roof - will Nintendo's games be able to withstand the rise in costs if not offset by some good third party licensing fees?
I've not seen any mention of them working on social or smartphone games, but I may have missed that.
There never was a more deserving game to have commercial success than Dark Souls.
I'm willing to bet that if the PC version of Dark Souls is also a commercial success, we may just see a Demon's Souls port too.
Should UE4 run on the WiiU? Perhaps, if it ends up an extremely popular console. Maybe Epic should look at what Crytek did, and release a new or separate engine that is designed to utilize the hardware available.
Likely they won't. Their business is in being the first guy to the party as new technology develops, and new tech is less likely to develop unless they help convince the industry that it is worth working on.
Also it might not even matter for sometime, I really don't expect any UE4 games for three years at least. By that point Nintendo will have already made their own bed.
Re: WiiU - yea, as much as Nintendo wants to fight it, I feel the company will always sell based on their own properties, and third parties probably won't ever get a hold on them. It don't matter, I know the reason I buy a Nintendo system is for their properties, and I usually have my secondary system for the other stuff.
Next Gen will probably end up being a WiiU only generation for me, but that is due to current financial situations and time rather than anything else.
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Edit: As for Molyneux, I have yet to forgive him for Black & White.
What's "crappy" about it, can I ask? Because I know it gets labelled as the "hurr brown big bald men" engine, but those things aren't the engine, they're the developers who use it. It can do a whole bunch of other things.
Texture popping, muddy shadows, and a number of other weird graphical quirks that are easily spotted in any UE3 game (see Mass Effect 1 for an extreme example)
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Texture popping is a feature of the engine so you don't have to wait through a longer loading screen before textures are loaded. They load on the fly as necessary.
ME1 is a terrible example by the way. The engine has come a long way in the last 5 years.
To be fair, he did say extreme.
I'll take longer loading times over the incredibly immersion-breaking texture popping any day.
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I think that may be true for our house as well (along with 3DSs) - if we even do that. I have a PS3 currently and I really don't see what the next gen would offer me that I would care that much about when I have such a large backlog already. I almost skipped this generation of systems and just stuck with my PS2 but when I went HD I wanted a console to go with it (a 360 which I got rid of recently).
If the next gen is just the current with better graphics I think we'll skip and just play what we have. I wonder how many households are in the same boat.
He did... but comparing the graphical capabilities of an engine at the start of a console generation to it's capabilities at the end of the generation isn't exactly productive.
You wouldn't compare the graphical quality of ICO to Shadow of the Colossus. It's not a fair comparison. Same thing here.
And more load screens? UE3 is highly efficient in that it doesn't load all the textures for an entire level. Beyond a certain range, meshes and materials are compressed into a flat image which then loads them as you approach.
Without that texture popping, the game would have to stop and load so often it would be beyond annoying.
Yea, I have so many games that I just don't have the time to play them. I even recently offloaded my 360 since I just didn't have the time. So now I only have the Wii and PS3 as my main consoles, plus my 3DS for portability. I'm good with that.
The WiiU will be my next gen purchase and that'll be it. Not to mention that money has gotten a lot tighter since last year.
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That rumor was started because people took something in an interview wildly out of context.
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And even if true 30 is better than 10. Also mods etc. I have no doubt I will be playing me some Dark Souls at 1080p 60fps by the end of the year and it will be glorious.
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I'll hypothetically miss the Hypothetical Molyneux, who had great game ideas and loads of enthusiasm.
I'll definitely not miss Actual Molyneux, who was a living, breathing hype machine for ideas which he never delivered a fraction of despite big budgets. The industry is better off without that sort of personality, especially with all the horror stories out there of great development groups that deliver getting stomped on by publishers.
EDIT: And he'll jut blow a lot of smoke up some publisher's ass anyway and get a big budget somewhere else. It's not like Molyneux has taken some monastic vow to not make games any more.