I was a visionary indeed. Embrace the game where you can blame teammates instead of just yourself.
On that note I need to learn how to carry as veigar, I often end up with more than half the kills on a team (or well, in the game I just finished all but one) but can't leverage that advantage to a win since the other team just jumps me the moment I show my face, and gibbing one person is not enough to let them win the fight after sadly.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I was a visionary indeed. Embrace the game where you can blame teammates instead of just yourself.
On that note I need to learn how to carry as veigar, I often end up with more than half the kills on a team (or well, in the game I just finished all but one) but can't leverage that advantage to a win since the other team just jumps me the moment I show my face, and gibbing one person is not enough to let them win the fight after sadly.
Set in bushes and behind your team alot. If you can survive laning, cage is a really powerful tool.
(I'm a crap Veigar, ask Frosteey for some advice, I usually see him get through laning intact)
My problem with veigar is not laning, I can at least farm in pretty much every lane these days, the issue is once teamfights roll around I feel kinda useless most of the time. I can initiate with cage/blow up someone, but then I always get ganged by the entire enemy team. sometimes my team uses this and we win, other times they mill around and don't.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
My problem with veigar is not laning, I can at least farm in pretty much every lane these days, the issue is once teamfights roll around I feel kinda useless most of the time. I can initiate with cage/blow up someone, but then I always get ganged by the entire enemy team. sometimes my team uses this and we win, other times they mill around and don't.
Get your cage cooldown lower for protection. You also might not have to use it for initiation, drop meteor and your other deeps spells as warranted early, then only if a diver's on you do you have to back off.
And I mean if your teams can't protect squishies, you have bigger problems more along the lines of "Don't play Veigar"
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TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
I can't help but feel the Warwick nerfs were a response to his fotm status rather than his actual strength. 3 months ago people were telling me that he was unusable in jungle and outclassed top by Nid/Yorick/InsertSustainyGuyHere
Myeah, I suppose veigar isn't the best choice in soloqueue in general :P. I just enjoy the playstyle, and want to make it work for carrying and leading people around, which means you almost have to be able to initiate to tell people to stop being pussies and start murdering.
Fucking Warwick nerf on his Q to the point where new rank 5 is lower than his old rank 4! I take back every time I ever disagreed with you about Riot and nerfs.
Dartboard says: "Nerf WW's Q!"
Here's the problem: If WW does as much damage with a high mana cost cooldown as an AD carry does for free with an auto attack, then the terrorists win. Vayne does 50+8% max HP true damage on a 1.4 second "cooldown" at max ASpeed, and passively, but whatevs.
But, as a mixed damage melee champion dependent on mana and cooldowns, I'm sure you won't have any problems using itemization to keep up with her.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
The real travesty of this patch is no Riven buffs.
Where is my E goes twice as far and through all terrain? Maybe Q should have extra range and go through terrain on each hop. Imagine the epic jukes. Hitting a champion with W should instantly reset the cooldown. Maybe the use on her R should just be a global ult that executes everything simultaneously. I'm just spitballing here.
Kill
Double Kill
Triple Kill
Quarda Kill
Support Kayle Steals one
Feels bad man.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
MF getting a lot of play in high elo games it seems. Ult change must be working out well for her.
Stream still better than watching in spectator mode. Yeah, spectator mode you get to control the camera but that's not why I watch the stream anyways. Trying to get in people's heads though. Will be great watching friend's games though while waiting for them to get out.
I can't help but feel the Warwick nerfs were a response to his fotm status rather than his actual strength. 3 months ago people were telling me that he was unusable in jungle and outclassed top by Nid/Yorick/InsertSustainyGuyHere
warwick's early game might not have been as good as yorick(because whose is?) but his late game was much better.
Jars on
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TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
I'm definitely not saying he's bad, he's my highest winrate champion atm.
A 20% nerf to his main (only) nuke just seemed a bit excessive
I'm definitely not saying he's bad, he's my highest winrate champion atm.
A 20% nerf to his main (only) nuke just seemed a bit excessive
Especially considering, like all champs in his role, he needs a variety of stats to be effective. His nuke only scales off AP, his ult only scales off AD, his auto attacks encourage on hits, but that means he gets hit twice by resistances, he needs both resistance types, HP, cooldowns, and mana as well, and in practice his sustain runs dry in a fight without life steal, so now you are using almost every stat in LOL, whereas for certain champs, their optimal builds are much tighter.
Interestingly, this same patch they just gave pretty much all the tanks extra free MR too, so he actually got double nerfed. I build MPen on him every once in a while, but it is looking more key now, but that's another 2K gold for void staff he needs to conjure up from nowhere.
I don't think he is no longer viable, but it's just Riot being stupid and addressing non-issues, while leaving dumb mechanics like destroying turrets being bad in the game (the decision "Dragon or turret" is interesting, the decision of, "Don't down that turret or they will be able to farm" is stupid as fuck and shouldn't be a consideration.)
his q doesn't need any damage items to be effective. that's why it is getting nerfed because warwick runs around with 3k health and 200 armor/mr doing just fine in damage.
Hmm; Ryze autoattack missile speed from 1400 to 2400; that sounds huge. Who else has missile speeds around 2400? Must research.
I don't think it will matter that much. I've never had a problem last hitting on him due to his projectile attack speed. Its his AA animation that messes things up and it will still fake you out[unless they changed it] because it triggers the "shoot" sound before you shoot.
I still think brolaff and morde are the most ridiculous of champions. If they get one kill before 6 it's over. Trynd used to be like this, thankfully his nerf made him not quite as bad. But he can still out of control snowball at the end. Speaking of which, what IS a good morde counter top?
I am beyond sad that varus did not come out today. I am woe.
Looking back on a few bit games this week, you know who I really hate? Malphite Bot. Somehow that jerk manages to be 5000x more annoying than any player Malphite I've ever seen
My problem with veigar is not laning, I can at least farm in pretty much every lane these days, the issue is once teamfights roll around I feel kinda useless most of the time. I can initiate with cage/blow up someone, but then I always get ganged by the entire enemy team. sometimes my team uses this and we win, other times they mill around and don't.
After you blow your cooldowns, GTFO, as without your abilities you're just a helpless target. When they're back up, go back in. If you're lucky, they'll try to chase you while taking damage, only to lead them into getting stuncaged under a tower.
his q doesn't need any damage items to be effective. that's why it is getting nerfed because warwick runs around with 3k health and 200 armor/mr doing just fine in damage.
That's not really accurate. It was decent, but if you build WW without any penetration / on hit, he does damage like a wet noodle.
That, and as a melee champion without any defensive ability, gap closer, or even soft CC besides his ultimate(unless they are under 50% already), WW needs heavy defenses to do more than 0 damage before being exploded by barrages of high physical damage, true damage auto attacks by Vayne while she stuns on a 12 second cooldown, for example.
He was good and I mained him and will continue to do so, but there are champions who needed the nerf bat more. Riot needs to nerf the meta, like they have a couple times before.
I still think brolaff and morde are the most ridiculous of champions. If they get one kill before 6 it's over. Trynd used to be like this, thankfully his nerf made him not quite as bad. But he can still out of control snowball at the end. Speaking of which, what IS a good morde counter top?
I am beyond sad that varus did not come out today. I am woe.
Mordekaiser counters are anyone who can hit him with constant damage to break that shield. AD champs work well. (EZ and Cait) Otherwise you have to burst him early before he has all of his abilities. Early ganks work well for this. If you can get him low in lane before he has revolver, you can bully him and zone.
I still think brolaff and morde are the most ridiculous of champions. If they get one kill before 6 it's over. Trynd used to be like this, thankfully his nerf made him not quite as bad. But he can still out of control snowball at the end. Speaking of which, what IS a good morde counter top?
I am beyond sad that varus did not come out today. I am woe.
Mordekaiser counters are anyone who can hit him with constant damage to break that shield. AD champs work well. (EZ and Cait) Otherwise you have to burst him early before he has all of his abilities. Early ganks work well for this. If you can get him low in lane before he has revolver, you can bully him and zone.
Any ranged champ of any type works well, because melee is inevitably going to get hit on the way in. A lot of implementation issues makes all the difference from both players, like if you let Mord hit the entire minion wave with his E while he also hits you, or make him choose. There was one Vlad (me) v. Mord fight I solely won by positioning myself at a right angle to the minion wave at the midpoint of the fight. If he got another couple hundred shielding, he would have killed me and survived instead. And once I won that fight, I ended up winning the lane.
Ganks with hard CC are especially effective, as many Mords build sorc boots + revolver early, which makes them hard to fight 1v1 in the middle of a minion wave, but hilariously squishy in the middle of a WW ult. Mord generates fuck all shielding / spell vamp while suppressed.
Fucking Warwick nerf on his Q to the point where new rank 5 is lower than his old rank 4! I take back every time I ever disagreed with you about Riot and nerfs.
Dartboard says: "Nerf WW's Q!"
Here's the problem: If WW does as much damage with a high mana cost cooldown as an AD carry does for free with an auto attack, then the terrorists win. Vayne does 50+8% max HP true damage on a 1.4 second "cooldown" at max ASpeed, and passively, but whatevs.
But, as a mixed damage melee champion dependent on mana and cooldowns, I'm sure you won't have any problems using itemization to keep up with her.
yeah you're kind of ranting on your own little island here, programjunkie
most of the people in this thread have been banning warwick for weeks
and vayne has been nerfed to the extent that she's super counterable
yeah you're kind of ranting on your own little island here, programjunkie
most of the people in this thread have been banning warwick for weeks
and vayne has been nerfed to the extent that she's super counterable
I just had a game with an amazing Warwick who got the second highest kill/death ratio of both teams. Why are people banning him?
yeah you're kind of ranting on your own little island here, programjunkie
most of the people in this thread have been banning warwick for weeks
and vayne has been nerfed to the extent that she's super counterable
I just had a game with an amazing Warwick who got the second highest kill/death ratio of both teams. Why are people banning him?
Tanky DPS. If you don't shut warwick down he gets so tanky that he outlasts your team. He has enough innate lifesteal and he builds tanky enough that he is nigh unkillable. If you don't focus him he eats your whole team, if you do, his team eats your whole team. He does a decent amount of damage while being incredibly tanky.
In short, he is the New/Old Tanky DPS. Plus his ult is on an absurd short cooldown.
He doesn't have the carry potential that Olaf does, but he will eventually get to the point where towers do nothing to him as he lifesteals more than they can hurt him.
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his ult only scales off AD, his auto attacks encourage on hits,
Warwicks ult proc's on hit abilities for each "strike". They count as normal attacks [which is why if you blind ww before he gets his ult off he will miss]
A lot of the in game models don't look very good up close. Annie is a great example. Most are meant to be viewed form afar and are designed as such. Some are pretty decent though like graves.
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Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
A lot of the in game models don't look very good up close. Annie is a great example. Most are meant to be viewed form afar and are designed as such. Some are pretty decent though like graves.
Yeah, but....I mean that model is pretty grotesque. That has to be a fan made version or something, right?
A lot of the in game models don't look very good up close. Annie is a great example. Most are meant to be viewed form afar and are designed as such. Some are pretty decent though like graves.
Yeah, but....I mean that model is pretty grotesque. That has to be a fan made version or something, right?
I'd have to see it in game to make a call honestly. I learned long ago not to judge by screen shots, especially from that angle, most models are meant to be viewed from a higher angle I think. I thought fiora looked horrible in her screenshots but in game she looks fantastic.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Yes, Phoenix Udyr ganking into cc in every lane. You can TOTALLY rush Triforce. That won't end badly.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Which of the models is meant to look pretty bad? Or is it both of them?
I think it is both of them. (At that angle, blown up that much)
Personally, I think the relative size of some of the models is totally out of whack. Compare say, Fizz, to ANY of the more humanoid ones. He looks far, far too big. Like, he's just past their shoulder, height wise, and his head is larger than their entire body.
yeah you're kind of ranting on your own little island here, programjunkie
most of the people in this thread have been banning warwick for weeks
and vayne has been nerfed to the extent that she's super counterable
I actually agree Vayne isn't in the top tier in terms of AD carries anymore (hi graves!), but her silver bolts make for a good comparison to WW's Q.
Also, LOL @ WW bans. Waste of a slot unless you want to play someone he counters (he soft counters trynd, so I'd rather fight Riven or Yorick top, for example, but I'd take recommendations from other lanes before I banned him for my own benefit).
As much as you accuse me of being on my own little island, Riot usually ends up agreeing with me, albeit at a 1+ month delay. I'll often point out small dumb choices that might not ever get fixed, or not for many iterations, like nerfing starfall (yes, Riot, Starfall is the most pressing issue about Soraka right now, and nerfing it will only encourage her to be used in varied and fun roles, and not just used as a buff bot for bottom lane / warder / aegis holder), but they usually come around in the end. They did end up nerfing Deathcap multiple times, which I'm quite pleased with myself to have seen how fucking broken that was within 24 hours.
Warwick was strong before he got buffs to his passive, which was buffed only because he was a shitty jungler (he still is, if the other team knows what they're doing). His late game pre-buffs was pretty OP, and post-buffs was super OP, and now he'll go back to pretty OP again.
One of the biggest problems/coolest things about WW was that he could end a 5v5 as the only person alive (with 1hp, even), and could still push a tower+inhib and get away safely.
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you trying out the switch from sc2 to lol as well?
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On that note I need to learn how to carry as veigar, I often end up with more than half the kills on a team (or well, in the game I just finished all but one) but can't leverage that advantage to a win since the other team just jumps me the moment I show my face, and gibbing one person is not enough to let them win the fight after sadly.
(I'm a crap Veigar, ask Frosteey for some advice, I usually see him get through laning intact)
And I mean if your teams can't protect squishies, you have bigger problems more along the lines of "Don't play Veigar"
been playing longer than SC actually, just don't post here much
Dartboard says: "Nerf WW's Q!"
Here's the problem: If WW does as much damage with a high mana cost cooldown as an AD carry does for free with an auto attack, then the terrorists win. Vayne does 50+8% max HP true damage on a 1.4 second "cooldown" at max ASpeed, and passively, but whatevs.
But, as a mixed damage melee champion dependent on mana and cooldowns, I'm sure you won't have any problems using itemization to keep up with her.
Where is my E goes twice as far and through all terrain? Maybe Q should have extra range and go through terrain on each hop. Imagine the epic jukes. Hitting a champion with W should instantly reset the cooldown. Maybe the use on her R should just be a global ult that executes everything simultaneously. I'm just spitballing here.
Double Kill
Triple Kill
Quarda Kill
Support Kayle Steals one
Feels bad man.
Stream still better than watching in spectator mode. Yeah, spectator mode you get to control the camera but that's not why I watch the stream anyways. Trying to get in people's heads though. Will be great watching friend's games though while waiting for them to get out.
warwick's early game might not have been as good as yorick(because whose is?) but his late game was much better.
A 20% nerf to his main (only) nuke just seemed a bit excessive
Especially considering, like all champs in his role, he needs a variety of stats to be effective. His nuke only scales off AP, his ult only scales off AD, his auto attacks encourage on hits, but that means he gets hit twice by resistances, he needs both resistance types, HP, cooldowns, and mana as well, and in practice his sustain runs dry in a fight without life steal, so now you are using almost every stat in LOL, whereas for certain champs, their optimal builds are much tighter.
Interestingly, this same patch they just gave pretty much all the tanks extra free MR too, so he actually got double nerfed. I build MPen on him every once in a while, but it is looking more key now, but that's another 2K gold for void staff he needs to conjure up from nowhere.
I don't think he is no longer viable, but it's just Riot being stupid and addressing non-issues, while leaving dumb mechanics like destroying turrets being bad in the game (the decision "Dragon or turret" is interesting, the decision of, "Don't down that turret or they will be able to farm" is stupid as fuck and shouldn't be a consideration.)
I don't think it will matter that much. I've never had a problem last hitting on him due to his projectile attack speed. Its his AA animation that messes things up and it will still fake you out[unless they changed it] because it triggers the "shoot" sound before you shoot.
You have to win an official tournament. Your best bet is to get good at Dominion.
I am beyond sad that varus did not come out today. I am woe.
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After you blow your cooldowns, GTFO, as without your abilities you're just a helpless target. When they're back up, go back in. If you're lucky, they'll try to chase you while taking damage, only to lead them into getting stuncaged under a tower.
That's not really accurate. It was decent, but if you build WW without any penetration / on hit, he does damage like a wet noodle.
That, and as a melee champion without any defensive ability, gap closer, or even soft CC besides his ultimate(unless they are under 50% already), WW needs heavy defenses to do more than 0 damage before being exploded by barrages of high physical damage, true damage auto attacks by Vayne while she stuns on a 12 second cooldown, for example.
He was good and I mained him and will continue to do so, but there are champions who needed the nerf bat more. Riot needs to nerf the meta, like they have a couple times before.
Mordekaiser counters are anyone who can hit him with constant damage to break that shield. AD champs work well. (EZ and Cait) Otherwise you have to burst him early before he has all of his abilities. Early ganks work well for this. If you can get him low in lane before he has revolver, you can bully him and zone.
where did frostblade irelia get all dat ass
Any ranged champ of any type works well, because melee is inevitably going to get hit on the way in. A lot of implementation issues makes all the difference from both players, like if you let Mord hit the entire minion wave with his E while he also hits you, or make him choose. There was one Vlad (me) v. Mord fight I solely won by positioning myself at a right angle to the minion wave at the midpoint of the fight. If he got another couple hundred shielding, he would have killed me and survived instead. And once I won that fight, I ended up winning the lane.
Ganks with hard CC are especially effective, as many Mords build sorc boots + revolver early, which makes them hard to fight 1v1 in the middle of a minion wave, but hilariously squishy in the middle of a WW ult. Mord generates fuck all shielding / spell vamp while suppressed.
You made my brain explode in a bad way.
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most of the people in this thread have been banning warwick for weeks
and vayne has been nerfed to the extent that she's super counterable
In mid lane I will usually take Malzahar against him, cuz dat silence. And you need to be able to push the lane back against him.
MWO: Adamski
I just had a game with an amazing Warwick who got the second highest kill/death ratio of both teams. Why are people banning him?
Tanky DPS. If you don't shut warwick down he gets so tanky that he outlasts your team. He has enough innate lifesteal and he builds tanky enough that he is nigh unkillable. If you don't focus him he eats your whole team, if you do, his team eats your whole team. He does a decent amount of damage while being incredibly tanky.
In short, he is the New/Old Tanky DPS. Plus his ult is on an absurd short cooldown.
He doesn't have the carry potential that Olaf does, but he will eventually get to the point where towers do nothing to him as he lifesteals more than they can hurt him.
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Warwicks ult proc's on hit abilities for each "strike". They count as normal attacks [which is why if you blind ww before he gets his ult off he will miss]
That is not a very appealing model =/
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Yeah, but....I mean that model is pretty grotesque. That has to be a fan made version or something, right?
I'd have to see it in game to make a call honestly. I learned long ago not to judge by screen shots, especially from that angle, most models are meant to be viewed from a higher angle I think. I thought fiora looked horrible in her screenshots but in game she looks fantastic.
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I think it is both of them. (At that angle, blown up that much)
Personally, I think the relative size of some of the models is totally out of whack. Compare say, Fizz, to ANY of the more humanoid ones. He looks far, far too big. Like, he's just past their shoulder, height wise, and his head is larger than their entire body.
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I actually agree Vayne isn't in the top tier in terms of AD carries anymore (hi graves!), but her silver bolts make for a good comparison to WW's Q.
Also, LOL @ WW bans. Waste of a slot unless you want to play someone he counters (he soft counters trynd, so I'd rather fight Riven or Yorick top, for example, but I'd take recommendations from other lanes before I banned him for my own benefit).
As much as you accuse me of being on my own little island, Riot usually ends up agreeing with me, albeit at a 1+ month delay. I'll often point out small dumb choices that might not ever get fixed, or not for many iterations, like nerfing starfall (yes, Riot, Starfall is the most pressing issue about Soraka right now, and nerfing it will only encourage her to be used in varied and fun roles, and not just used as a buff bot for bottom lane / warder / aegis holder), but they usually come around in the end. They did end up nerfing Deathcap multiple times, which I'm quite pleased with myself to have seen how fucking broken that was within 24 hours.
One of the biggest problems/coolest things about WW was that he could end a 5v5 as the only person alive (with 1hp, even), and could still push a tower+inhib and get away safely.
Edit: Considering saving up for Naut.