Just had a hilarious game as Ashe. We decided to invade their red and came across Lee Sin sitting in his red bush alone, he exploded. We then sit in their bush until they come down to contest red 4v5, kill Nautilus and then Lee Sin again when he comes back. I walk back to lane 2/0/1. BF Sword at 5:30. Proceed to land every arrow I launched and secure kills. Feels good man B-)
Playing support is an all in gamble for an extremely fun and fulfilling game experience and wanting to re-enact the video footage from Event Horizon IRL.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Project Anivia's fucking ult slows games down to snail pace is infinity-0 so far.
your computer might overload if Graves lands a smoke grenade on you
I mean in the sense that basically Anivia sits around dragging games out for fucking ages by being the perfect anti-siege.
You want to poke this tower? WELL YOU HAVE NO MINIONS TO DO IT WITH. AND I'M GOING TO WALL THE ENTIRE LANE OFF EVERY CD JUST TO FUCK WITH YOU. AND THROW OUT REGULAR STUN POKES WHILST I'M AT IT.
I just lost the most painful game. Ashe Taric(us) vs teemo/xin. We demolish them in lane, totally dominate. And then i can't get any of the other three people to do anything regarding objectives.
Ashe gets really big because that is what happens when you feed an AD carry, but it becomes the lategame and they all build armor.
And Ashe does not build a last whisper or a banshees veil to counter their only two effective champions. She builds bloodrazor.
And we lose [because she dies to the base turret when we are seiging their nexus]
Wriggles is just a super efficient item and you'd be silly not to get it on any ad character, including ad carry on bot. (unless you have a soraka, but thats another story).
Dragon control/baron/jungle speed, lifesteal, armor, over half the damage of a bf sword, free ward. Super stat efficient.
If you have a wriggles and the enemy has a bf you will ALWAYS WIN. I always get super aggressive if my enemy went BF quickly and I went wriggles and I will set them back roughly 20 or so CS.
This isn't really the case for AD carries. I feel like, after the recent lifesteal nerfs on wriggles its probably not worth in on an AD carry. Its true that wriggles offers a lot, but compare wriggles to three dorans blades and a vamp scepter [about the same price] and you can start to see the problems. The dorans blades offer more AD, more lifesteal, and HP instead of armor [so you get protection from both damage types]. The wriggles is a bit more efficient in a raw manner because it has a better sell price[iirc] and because you get wards from it.
Gunna stop you here...
If wriggles is so bad for ad carries why are top players buying it on ad carries?
There is a tradeoff, but it is a strong item on an AD carry.
Also it gives your team ward advantage when you have more people contributing to wards than just your support. Top should be warding, mid warding, bot warding from support and carry, and the jungle should be warding. Map awareness wins games.
Plus with the recent nerf to dorans blade cutting off 20 hp, it just made wriggles all that better. Often wriggles isnt sold either and just held onto until late late late game.
There is a couple breakpoints to be mindful of
ad carry with wriggles wins vs ad carry with B.F. Sword
ad carry with wriggles, BF Sword and cloak (18%) crit is about even with AD carry with IE, except AD carry with IE cant sustain himself back. Its slightly less dps in exchange for a lot more surviveability, plus map awareness.
3) Pushing your wave tends to be less useful as a carry than a top since you can mobilize mid to push as well and since the enemy support can head you off at the pass if you're trying to push and leave the lane.
No this is wrong. As soon as you can safely permapush bot, you should, denies cs to the enemy carry as they have to fight their tower for it. And wriggles gives you a ward to help you do just that. CS advantage is much more a big deal than trying to be super late game build only efficient with your carry.
If wriggles is so bad for ad carries why are top players buying it on ad carries?
I wasn't aware they were. Maybe they have gone back since the Doran's nerf, but the last tournament i watched [IPL4, the one in vegas] and the one before that it was all double dorans+vamp then finish BT/IE.
I will give it a try the next time i play one.
ad carry with wriggles wins vs ad carry with B.F. Sword
ad carry with wriggles, BF Sword and cloak (18%) crit is about even with AD carry with IE, except AD carry with IE cant sustain himself back. Its slightly less dps in exchange for a lot more surviveability, plus map awareness.
Wriggles/BF/Cloak is not "slightly less damage than an AD with IE". And the AD with IE can sustain just as well since he buys a vamp scepter before he starts the IE. You might finish your combo at about the same time, but at 4200 gold[not counting boots] he has IE+Vamp and you have not finished a major item. When you finish your IE, he will have Zeal and IE and his vamp. You trade, at that point 20 damage and 30 armor for the move speed attack speed, and crit.
I.E. itself is +80 damage/25% crit and 50% stronger crits. Lets assume a level 10 ashe with no AD boosting items. Wriggles/BF/Cloak vs IE is +68 damage/18% crit.
Ashe will do about 90 damage base at level 18, which makes for 170/25/+50 to 158/18
Attack speeds are the same, so the expected damage of an attack is 233.75 vs 186.44
I wonder what the city-states sorta thing they're hinting at in the Champ Spotlights in.
We've seen variations on Noxus, Demacia and Zaun in people's names now.
yeah i've wondered about that too! it's gotta be something, it's too consistent to just be flavor text
SUPREMACY!
Or whatever that thing they were getting domains for was called.
hey you're probably right
If I am, I'll go on the official forum and make a thread about how they should damn well hire me already since I'm overqualified for their lore team/development.
I think soraka is my new go to ban, in solo que at least. It just seems like when she is around it covers the other carrys ass and makes ganking really hard. She is basically a really safe way to cover bot and prevent them from losing the lane with harass, mana, and heals. So at best , unless the bottom lane is terrible, you will have a draw bot lane and it will be a farm fest. Worst case senario soraka's mana and sustain pushes your bottom lane out of lane and denies them tons of CS and levels.
I have this sneaking suspicion that Supremacy is going to be a game mode that lets us alter the game's lore somehow. Maybe something along the lines of players choosing a city-state, and the team that has the highest percentage of won games controls more of a world map. I don't know, I'm not a game designer.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Yeah I could easily see Season 3 having you declare for a specific city-state when you enter Ranked and your stats going to that.
Just a note about the Tabi vs Merc Treads argument for Fiora.
You are top lane by yourself, you don't get help except from your jungler on occasion. If the lane you are u p against has a slow or stun, or god forbid their jungler has a slow or stun, you need Merc treads.
It isn't about the armor really, it's about her lack of escapes. She can chase an enemy quite well, but getting away is much more difficult if you don't happen to have enemy creeps to dash to. Merc treads has often kicked me out of cc just in time to get to my tower with just enough health to survive a gank.
Full offense is a fine build on her I'm not discounting that but I just find it personally that her damage buff from W allows you to build more hybrid defense/offense items and still hit like a truck. Doing maximum damage is all well and good but if you explode from a swift wind it doesn't help anyone.
The combined MR and CC reduction on Mercs is almost always preferred to the extra armor form Ninja Tabi unless you are going against a very heavy AD focused team. You can certainly build in top lane to just beat your opponent, but the game is ultimately a team game and the enemy will almost invariably have some bursty Magic damage that you need to survive to get to their carry if they have any skill in focuses whatsoever.
As always go with whatever works for you in your games but it's not always about the most deeps you can possibly get.
Another small note is that in order to build a bloodthirster you need to sit on 1650 gold. With Wriggles I have a Vampiric Scepter, and the razor component with that much gold. I can bring that back into the lane and stomp my opponent who only has 1600 gold and no items to show for it.
I find that to be fairly instrumental in winning your lane early, and I can do that without having to sell my items later at a loss (Doran's Blades)
Just another point of view to take into consideration.
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
If wriggles is so bad for ad carries why are top players buying it on ad carries?
I wasn't aware they were. Maybe they have gone back since the Doran's nerf, but the last tournament i watched [IPL4, the one in vegas] and the one before that it was all double dorans+vamp then finish BT/IE.
I will give it a try the next time i play one.
ad carry with wriggles wins vs ad carry with B.F. Sword
ad carry with wriggles, BF Sword and cloak (18%) crit is about even with AD carry with IE, except AD carry with IE cant sustain himself back. Its slightly less dps in exchange for a lot more surviveability, plus map awareness.
Wriggles/BF/Cloak is not "slightly less damage than an AD with IE". And the AD with IE can sustain just as well since he buys a vamp scepter before he starts the IE. You might finish your combo at about the same time, but at 4200 gold[not counting boots] he has IE+Vamp and you have not finished a major item. When you finish your IE, he will have Zeal and IE and his vamp. You trade, at that point 20 damage and 30 armor for the move speed attack speed, and crit.
I.E. itself is +80 damage/25% crit and 50% stronger crits. Lets assume a level 10 ashe with no AD boosting items. Wriggles/BF/Cloak vs IE is +68 damage/18% crit.
Ashe will do about 90 damage base at level 18, which makes for 170/25/+50 to 158/18
Attack speeds are the same, so the expected damage of an attack is 233.75 vs 186.44
That is pretty significant.
Recalculate with 30 more armor. Also you are assuming cs equivlancy and in my experience you can secure more cs if you go wriggles early. And deny the enemy carry cs. As soon as you finish your IE you are pretty much ahead perm.
So what are peoples feelings on spell vamp quints, especially for manaless casters like vlad or kennen? They're not as gold efficient but they are a nice boost to sustain.
Just a note about the Tabi vs Merc Treads argument for Fiora.
You are top lane by yourself, you don't get help except from your jungler on occasion. If the lane you are u p against has a slow or stun, or god forbid their jungler has a slow or stun, you need Merc treads.
It isn't about the armor really, it's about her lack of escapes. She can chase an enemy quite well, but getting away is much more difficult if you don't happen to have enemy creeps to dash to. Merc treads has often kicked me out of cc just in time to get to my tower with just enough health to survive a gank.
Full offense is a fine build on her I'm not discounting that but I just find it personally that her damage buff from W allows you to build more hybrid defense/offense items and still hit like a truck. Doing maximum damage is all well and good but if you explode from a swift wind it doesn't help anyone.
The combined MR and CC reduction on Mercs is almost always preferred to the extra armor form Ninja Tabi unless you are going against a very heavy AD focused team. You can certainly build in top lane to just beat your opponent, but the game is ultimately a team game and the enemy will almost invariably have some bursty Magic damage that you need to survive to get to their carry if they have any skill in focuses whatsoever.
As always go with whatever works for you in your games but it's not always about the most deeps you can possibly get.
Another small note is that in order to build a bloodthirster you need to sit on 1650 gold. With Wriggles I have a Vampiric Scepter, and the razor component with that much gold. I can bring that back into the lane and stomp my opponent who only has 1600 gold and no items to show for it.
I find that to be fairly instrumental in winning your lane early, and I can do that without having to sell my items later at a loss (Doran's Blades)
Just another point of view to take into consideration.
I never, ever said wait to buy your BT out right. In fact, I'm 99% positive I said go and buy the BF sword.
Which I stand by., and I still stand by getting the double doran's ASAP, because, it's a cheap 160 health, 20 AD, and 6% lifesteal that you'll get faster than someone can build a wriggles
Also, Delph, I see no problem with buying things and selling them off if you want to replace them, which is the crux of my tabi argument. I'm saying if you need armor top, just grab the tabi, and then sell them off if you need different boots later.
So what are peoples feelings on spell vamp quints, especially for manaless casters like vlad or kennen? They're not as gold efficient but they are a nice boost to sustain.
Spell vamp quints are hands down my favorite quints for a handful of heroes. Run Morde with vamp quints (and the 3% mastery for the lulz) and you can stay in lane forever with just boots. It's amazing. I don't own Vlad (waiting on a sale) but I can only assume they're even better on him.
Xbox Live: No Reply
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
Just a note about the Tabi vs Merc Treads argument for Fiora.
You are top lane by yourself, you don't get help except from your jungler on occasion. If the lane you are u p against has a slow or stun, or god forbid their jungler has a slow or stun, you need Merc treads.
It isn't about the armor really, it's about her lack of escapes. She can chase an enemy quite well, but getting away is much more difficult if you don't happen to have enemy creeps to dash to. Merc treads has often kicked me out of cc just in time to get to my tower with just enough health to survive a gank.
Full offense is a fine build on her I'm not discounting that but I just find it personally that her damage buff from W allows you to build more hybrid defense/offense items and still hit like a truck. Doing maximum damage is all well and good but if you explode from a swift wind it doesn't help anyone.
The combined MR and CC reduction on Mercs is almost always preferred to the extra armor form Ninja Tabi unless you are going against a very heavy AD focused team. You can certainly build in top lane to just beat your opponent, but the game is ultimately a team game and the enemy will almost invariably have some bursty Magic damage that you need to survive to get to their carry if they have any skill in focuses whatsoever.
As always go with whatever works for you in your games but it's not always about the most deeps you can possibly get.
Another small note is that in order to build a bloodthirster you need to sit on 1650 gold. With Wriggles I have a Vampiric Scepter, and the razor component with that much gold. I can bring that back into the lane and stomp my opponent who only has 1600 gold and no items to show for it.
I find that to be fairly instrumental in winning your lane early, and I can do that without having to sell my items later at a loss (Doran's Blades)
Just another point of view to take into consideration.
I never, ever said wait to buy your BT out right. In fact, I'm 99% positive I said go and buy the BF sword.
Which I stand by., and I still stand by getting the double doran's ASAP, because, it's a cheap 160 health, 20 AD, and 6% lifesteal that you'll get faster than someone can build a wriggles
Also, Delph, I see no problem with buying things and selling them off if you want to replace them, which is the crux of my tabi argument. I'm saying if you need armor top, just grab the tabi, and then sell them off if you need different boots later.
BT does not cost 1650 gold. As I said above in order to buy a BT you need to sit on 1650 gold, that is the cost of a BF Sword. If you are buying 2 doran's blade you are delaying your BF sword even more. That's another 800+ gold you are setting yourself back. Meanwhile I've bought my Wriggles and am working on a hexdrinker or maybe my own BF sword.
It just doesn't make sense to me, Unless you really take advantage of those Doran's blades and get far enough ahead that you are swimming in gold and can afford to sell them off you are only putting yourself further behind. In bottom lane you can pull it off because you have support, but one on one I just eat people up who go that route.
*Edit* Selling Two Doran's Blades and One Ninja Tabi cost you 729 total gold that you don't get back. Just the Blades alone cost you 476 gold.
Delphinidaes on
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(shen shaco urgot)
I want to be a dracozombie
your computer might overload if Graves lands a smoke grenade on you
You want to poke this tower? WELL YOU HAVE NO MINIONS TO DO IT WITH. AND I'M GOING TO WALL THE ENTIRE LANE OFF EVERY CD JUST TO FUCK WITH YOU. AND THROW OUT REGULAR STUN POKES WHILST I'M AT IT.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=24046275#24046275
volibear kinda owns?
Ashe gets really big because that is what happens when you feed an AD carry, but it becomes the lategame and they all build armor.
And Ashe does not build a last whisper or a banshees veil to counter their only two effective champions. She builds bloodrazor.
And we lose [because she dies to the base turret when we are seiging their nexus]
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
If wriggles is so bad for ad carries why are top players buying it on ad carries?
There is a tradeoff, but it is a strong item on an AD carry.
Also it gives your team ward advantage when you have more people contributing to wards than just your support. Top should be warding, mid warding, bot warding from support and carry, and the jungle should be warding. Map awareness wins games.
Plus with the recent nerf to dorans blade cutting off 20 hp, it just made wriggles all that better. Often wriggles isnt sold either and just held onto until late late late game.
There is a couple breakpoints to be mindful of
ad carry with wriggles wins vs ad carry with B.F. Sword
ad carry with wriggles, BF Sword and cloak (18%) crit is about even with AD carry with IE, except AD carry with IE cant sustain himself back. Its slightly less dps in exchange for a lot more surviveability, plus map awareness.
No this is wrong. As soon as you can safely permapush bot, you should, denies cs to the enemy carry as they have to fight their tower for it. And wriggles gives you a ward to help you do just that. CS advantage is much more a big deal than trying to be super late game build only efficient with your carry.
Mundo D/C for 25 minutes.
We've seen variations on Noxus, Demacia and Zaun in people's names now.
He looks like a good time. Also, Piercing Arrow is ridiculously phallic, especially with that outfit. :^:
I wasn't aware they were. Maybe they have gone back since the Doran's nerf, but the last tournament i watched [IPL4, the one in vegas] and the one before that it was all double dorans+vamp then finish BT/IE.
I will give it a try the next time i play one.
Wriggles/BF/Cloak is not "slightly less damage than an AD with IE". And the AD with IE can sustain just as well since he buys a vamp scepter before he starts the IE. You might finish your combo at about the same time, but at 4200 gold[not counting boots] he has IE+Vamp and you have not finished a major item. When you finish your IE, he will have Zeal and IE and his vamp. You trade, at that point 20 damage and 30 armor for the move speed attack speed, and crit.
I.E. itself is +80 damage/25% crit and 50% stronger crits. Lets assume a level 10 ashe with no AD boosting items. Wriggles/BF/Cloak vs IE is +68 damage/18% crit.
Ashe will do about 90 damage base at level 18, which makes for 170/25/+50 to 158/18
Attack speeds are the same, so the expected damage of an attack is 233.75 vs 186.44
That is pretty significant.
yeah i've wondered about that too! it's gotta be something, it's too consistent to just be flavor text
tumblr | instagram | twitter | steam
SUPREMACY!
Or whatever that thing they were getting domains for was called.
hey you're probably right
tumblr | instagram | twitter | steam
If I am, I'll go on the official forum and make a thread about how they should damn well hire me already since I'm overqualified for their lore team/development.
(Ionia 4 lyfe
or at least they add a
water tribe \/\/)
You are top lane by yourself, you don't get help except from your jungler on occasion. If the lane you are u p against has a slow or stun, or god forbid their jungler has a slow or stun, you need Merc treads.
It isn't about the armor really, it's about her lack of escapes. She can chase an enemy quite well, but getting away is much more difficult if you don't happen to have enemy creeps to dash to. Merc treads has often kicked me out of cc just in time to get to my tower with just enough health to survive a gank.
Full offense is a fine build on her I'm not discounting that but I just find it personally that her damage buff from W allows you to build more hybrid defense/offense items and still hit like a truck. Doing maximum damage is all well and good but if you explode from a swift wind it doesn't help anyone.
The combined MR and CC reduction on Mercs is almost always preferred to the extra armor form Ninja Tabi unless you are going against a very heavy AD focused team. You can certainly build in top lane to just beat your opponent, but the game is ultimately a team game and the enemy will almost invariably have some bursty Magic damage that you need to survive to get to their carry if they have any skill in focuses whatsoever.
As always go with whatever works for you in your games but it's not always about the most deeps you can possibly get.
Another small note is that in order to build a bloodthirster you need to sit on 1650 gold. With Wriggles I have a Vampiric Scepter, and the razor component with that much gold. I can bring that back into the lane and stomp my opponent who only has 1600 gold and no items to show for it.
I find that to be fairly instrumental in winning your lane early, and I can do that without having to sell my items later at a loss (Doran's Blades)
Just another point of view to take into consideration.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
That thread is great, thanks for the link.
I don't even want to spoil it. Everyone should read the OP, then the pendragon posts.
Recalculate with 30 more armor. Also you are assuming cs equivlancy and in my experience you can secure more cs if you go wriggles early. And deny the enemy carry cs. As soon as you finish your IE you are pretty much ahead perm.
I just had a great game, that was a never give up, never surrender type moment:
These were the laning phase scores:
Naut: 0/4/0
Ryze: 1/3/1
Hec: 3/3/1
Vayne: 1/3/1
myself: 0/3/2
they took our top inhibitor at 17 min.
I never, ever said wait to buy your BT out right. In fact, I'm 99% positive I said go and buy the BF sword.
Which I stand by., and I still stand by getting the double doran's ASAP, because, it's a cheap 160 health, 20 AD, and 6% lifesteal that you'll get faster than someone can build a wriggles
Also, Delph, I see no problem with buying things and selling them off if you want to replace them, which is the crux of my tabi argument. I'm saying if you need armor top, just grab the tabi, and then sell them off if you need different boots later.
it doesn't even feel like i'm playing LoL
Possibly a combination of SR and Dominion.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Spell vamp quints are hands down my favorite quints for a handful of heroes. Run Morde with vamp quints (and the 3% mastery for the lulz) and you can stay in lane forever with just boots. It's amazing. I don't own Vlad (waiting on a sale) but I can only assume they're even better on him.
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
BT does not cost 1650 gold. As I said above in order to buy a BT you need to sit on 1650 gold, that is the cost of a BF Sword. If you are buying 2 doran's blade you are delaying your BF sword even more. That's another 800+ gold you are setting yourself back. Meanwhile I've bought my Wriggles and am working on a hexdrinker or maybe my own BF sword.
It just doesn't make sense to me, Unless you really take advantage of those Doran's blades and get far enough ahead that you are swimming in gold and can afford to sell them off you are only putting yourself further behind. In bottom lane you can pull it off because you have support, but one on one I just eat people up who go that route.
*Edit* Selling Two Doran's Blades and One Ninja Tabi cost you 729 total gold that you don't get back. Just the Blades alone cost you 476 gold.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!